[18:12:41] woot! https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/P587 [18:13:00] Line 37 Will Make You Cry. [18:14:28] But otherwise, it's pretty interesting. [18:14:44] ha! [18:14:45] nice :) [18:15:00] I'm curious how different your results are from when we did this [18:15:30] hfordsa: Hey! I did my best to finish this before your talk for that reason :) [18:15:39] guillom, cool! [18:15:59] :) [18:16:18] guillom: the more the merrier! [18:16:36] hello hfordsa [18:16:40] guillom: and eyeballing looks v. similar [18:16:47] dartar: hello, you! [18:16:48] I didn't know that this was going to hfordsa! [18:16:48] waiting for you to join the hangout :) [18:17:00] hfordsa: did you get the invite link? [18:17:03] oops [18:17:06] nope [18:17:11] ha, hang on [18:17:19] halfak: Thanks for all your help with this. I'll need to run a few things by you later. I'm also going to follow your advice and request shell access so I can do the same for other wikis without pestering you too much :) [18:17:29] Woot :) [18:19:00] My first recation to the results was: "Well, I sure hope Citoid handles Google Books properly." [18:19:04] reaction* [18:19:20] I haven't actually checked yet. [18:19:24] * guillom checks. [18:23:13] guillom, that's a good point. Citoid prioritization. [18:23:29] We could also look at citations that were added recently. I have that data as well. [18:24:42] halfak: Yeah, Citoid is the official reason I started looking into this (but then, it actually became fun!) [18:25:09] yay science! [18:25:18] * halfak celebrates the accidental fun [18:25:46] The BBC seems to have largely ousted the NY Times as number 2 since the 2013 paper [18:26:33] * guillom should make his way up to the 5th floor. brb [18:26:58] guillom, hfordsa, We should look at this over time. It would be cool to see the rise and fall as new content gets fleshed out in the wiki. [18:27:07] I bet that new sources will always stay high. [18:27:50] I bet that we'll also see centralization on fewer domains in the last couple of years. [18:28:05] +1 [18:28:21] (on doing time analysis) [18:29:38] halfak: you mean "news sources"? (instead of "new sources") [18:30:01] Yes [18:30:32] Agreed [18:32:58] okay, getting ready: start. :-) [18:35:10] Thesis writing. Weee! Brings back memories. Good luck, hfordsa! [18:35:12] friday? [18:37:53] DarTar: :) Well at least in Sweden it is a bank holiday tomorrow, so the weekend has sort of started here.. [18:39:49] not just in Sweden ;) most civilized countries [18:46:24] halfak: the new research template creates a giant notice on https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Research:Oral_Citations [18:46:29] can we fix it? [18:47:02] Yes. Add a status. :) [18:47:22] no, we have plenty of legacy projects with no status, it should be backward-compatible [18:47:46] DarTar, it seems that we should add a status to those projects. [18:47:55] either way [18:47:58] https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Research_projects_with_an_invalid_status&action=edit&redlink=1 [18:48:13] Ha! One of 'em is mine. [18:55:41] halfak: can you give heather the 5 min sign in a moment? we started a bit later so it’s fine if we go slightly over time [18:55:57] Sure. [18:56:35] DarTar, is that 5 minutes to Jeff or 5 minutes before Qs should start? [18:56:46] the latter [18:57:07] 4 mins now :) [18:58:19] :) [18:58:53] Hey folks. Heather is just starting wrap up. Ping me with your questions. [19:00:32] * halfak claps [19:00:33] halfak, hfordsa - is there a list somewhere of the organizations you consider most relevant to the documentation of indigenous / orally transmitted knowledge? [19:00:36] Great talk. Thank you hfordsa :) [19:00:44] thanks hfordsa. :-) [19:00:47] i.e., your option b) [19:01:39] Eloquence, got it. Sure you don't want to ask in person? [19:04:24] Sounds like hfordsa is describing a new way to gather primary sources -- going out and gathering oral citations and curating them. [19:04:42] ... or rather challenging [19:05:21] Does Wikimedia need a primary/secondary knowledge project? [19:05:27] * halfak will ask that [19:05:28] halfak: we’ll have time for a quick response to Eloquence’s question and move on to Jeff’s talk [19:05:33] kk [19:05:54] quickly relaying it is fine :) thank you. [19:06:06] also happy to continue the conversation on irc if we're out of time. [19:06:11] you are my professor, hfordsa [19:08:46] hfordsa, thank u :) [19:09:09] hfordsa, cool! Thank you! [19:09:30] hfordsa, FYI, I muted you in the hangout [19:09:34] pleasure, thank you! [19:09:45] halfak: of course! [19:11:24] Next up is Jeff Nickerson talking about the Generativity in Remiz communities [19:11:27] *Remix! [19:12:06] FYI for lurkers, see stream here: http://youtu.be/upQXecRNcdw [19:21:05] Seems like there is a cluster at 48 hours after project page post [19:22:31] The edits made on article talk pages prior to those on project talk pages can be explained by many scenarios: controversial change (then escalating to the project for wider discussion or to arbitrate), or discussion whose scope is actually larger than the article itself, and is then similarly escalated to the project level [19:23:15] I don't think WikiProjects can be summed up to just 'planning' spaces. [19:23:34] They're also micro-communities, with their own processes and guidelines. [19:23:50] including conflict resolution and formatting & content guidelines [19:26:13] Are formatting and content guidelines "planning" artifacts? [19:26:35] I feel like new users should *always* be directed to talk pages first [19:27:04] halfak: In a way, they are. But conflict resolution doesn't fall into "planning", I think. [19:27:14] +1 [19:27:59] hfordsa, indeed. A little bit a strategic lurking (behavior observation) could go a long way for identifying boundaries quickly and in a low-stress way. [19:28:10] halfak +1 for sure [19:29:03] * halfak engages in aggressive behavior observation when he travels. [19:29:09] :) [19:29:34] * halfak imagines what aggressive observation looks like -- O.O [19:29:39] halfak: esp. in Britain [19:30:15] yay! [19:31:40] halfak: I may have missed it in the beginning but curious how Jeff is defining 'expert' on WP [19:32:02] EEk. I missed that too. I'll ask. [19:32:09] fanks [19:32:32] Commons would probably be a great place to look at remixing. [19:32:51] hfordsa, Actually, why don't you ask since you're in the call? [19:33:10] e.g. SVG files and other easily-editable formats are more remixed than bitmaps [19:33:27] But then again, we have activities like Image restoration that "remix" bitmaps [19:33:47] Eloquence, can send you the list I have if you like! [19:33:54] halfak: sure! [19:34:21] It would be more difficult to identify parenthood / remixing than on thingiverse, but we have *some* mechanisms to link to derivative works and sources. [19:35:52] guillom: Yeah, SVGs rule, here is a recent remix from myself: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Wikidata_Visualization_Challenge.svg [19:37:10] Ainali: Nice! Also, licenses are a pretty big criterion when you consider remix. For example, putting together https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Biological_and_technological_scales_compared-en.svg was limited by what was available under a compatible license. [19:38:21] guillom: Agreed. [20:01:44] Emufarmers: (and anyone who is interested) you can now try out this authorship coloring script I told you about: "whoCOLOR" under http://f-squared.org/whovisual [20:01:58] unfinished, but still fun :P [20:12:56] FaFlo: did you tweet about it? happy to RT from @wikiresearch (as you saws we already featured your gamergate paper recently, which i guess is related) [20:16:48] HaeB: I didn't. not a huge twitterer :P but why not, thanks, I will do that now [20:26:02] FaFlo, cool! [20:26:46] FaFlo, can you turn this into a gadget? [20:28:57] hey halfak [20:29:00] yes, why not [20:29:18] should work as well [20:29:23] :) I think it will get more adoption. [20:29:36] You'll need to implement jsonp responses from the server if you haven't already. [20:31:23] it's a good idea, i will put it on my (obscenely long) to do list :P [20:32:11] we started with the greasemonkey script as we wanted it to be independent of a registered account [20:32:26] FaFlo, gotcha. That makes sense. [20:32:28] so for only-readers [20:32:46] but sure, that would be another thing we could do [20:33:55] FaFlo, if I understand right, converting to a gadget should be pretty easy since you are solving the exact same problem (re-writing a page in JS) [20:34:12] But "easy" might mean a couple hours rather than a whole new dev project :S [20:36:27] yeah, I guess so [20:37:19] if anyone would like to do it, they would have my full support :) [20:38:46] FaFlo, good open source answer! :) [20:38:57] * halfak looks for a repo [20:40:46] FaFlo, got a link to a repo? I don't see one in the docs. [20:42:23] halfak: ah sorry, no, I told my student to put it on github, but he hasn't done it yet, should happen in the next couple of days [20:42:53] * halfak shakes fist [20:42:54] but will definitely be available [20:42:57] MIT plz <3 [20:43:02] yup :) [20:43:25] *relays fist-shaking* [20:44:19] :D [21:40:56] * guillom discovers the subprocess module. [21:54:22] guillom: \o/ :D remember to read up on the evils of shell=True [21:55:07] YuviKTM: I shall. But for now I'm just happy to have found a way to call GNU sort from within my Python script, so I don't have to do it manually [21:55:10] :) [21:55:14] :) [21:56:21] I use it twice in this process, so I was alternating between Python / console / Python / console, which wasn't very efficient. [21:56:32] totally [21:56:39] Now that things Mostly Work, time for a little cleanup and automation. [22:09:24] hey halfak, we’re fighting with the hangouts [22:09:28] sorry about the delay [22:09:36] DarTar, figured. no worried. [22:09:37] *s