[08:07:58] New patchset: Aude; "add dir=auto for description" [mediawiki/extensions/Wikibase] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/23293 [08:45:04] New review: John Erling Blad; "This patchset imply html5." [mediawiki/extensions/Wikibase] (master); V: 0 C: 0; - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/23293 [08:55:48] New review: John Erling Blad; "https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=40127" [mediawiki/extensions/Wikibase] (master); V: 0 C: 0; - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/23293 [08:57:12] New review: Daniel Kinzler; "See bug 39734 for discussion." [mediawiki/extensions/Wikibase] (master); V: 0 C: -1; - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/22908 [09:35:14] New patchset: John Erling Blad; "(Bug 38843) Refine behavior of wbsetitem" [mediawiki/extensions/Wikibase] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/22487 [10:22:41] New patchset: John Erling Blad; "(Bug 37750) Sort sitelinks before listing at ItemView" [mediawiki/extensions/Wikibase] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/23295 [12:06:05] New patchset: Jens Ohlig; "Javascript: Display name like "English (en)", but submit "enwiki"" [mediawiki/extensions/Wikibase] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/23296 [12:09:46] New patchset: Jens Ohlig; "Special:ItemByTitle: Display name like "English (en)", but submit "enwiki"" [mediawiki/extensions/Wikibase] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/23296 [12:19:11] New patchset: John Erling Blad; "(Bug 37750) Sort sitelinks before listing throug wbgetitems" [mediawiki/extensions/Wikibase] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/23297 [12:28:19] New patchset: Jens Ohlig; "Special:ItemByTitle: Display name like "English (en)", but submit "enwiki"" [mediawiki/extensions/Wikibase] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/23296 [12:32:53] DanielK_WMDE: can you have a look at the last part of http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikidata-l/2012-September/001031.html please? Jens says this should be live so there's probably another problem there [12:39:36] New patchset: John Erling Blad; "(Bug 38675) Flag API error messages that should not be translated" [mediawiki/extensions/Wikibase] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/23298 [12:42:12] Lydia_WMDE, Jens_WMDE: this is caused by https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=40077 [12:42:31] the redesign of the Sites handling caused this regresstion, because it removed support for querying site groups. [12:42:34] Merlissimo: ^ [12:42:35] i intend to fix this today [12:42:40] cool [12:44:12] so now i can also add e.g. wikiquote? [12:44:23] Merlissimo: you could, but please don't. [12:44:58] for wikiquote it might even work, but wiktionary will definitly fail [12:45:07] also, currently the UI doesn't handle this [12:45:34] my interwikibot is also only running at wikiquote and wikipedia project, no others [12:49:08] DanielK_WMDE: your comment about commons is a bit unclear (that is currently removed from the groups at my bot framework before i submit items to wikidata) [12:49:50] Merlissimo: for all I care, commons can be included (also wikispecies). [12:50:02] that's in principle a community decision - there's no community yet though :) [12:50:03] ok [12:50:49] Merlissimo: whether this will work or not depends on how we set up the "wikipedia" group on the repo. i'm not sure who gets to decide that... [12:52:51] all interwiki bot handle wikipedia, common and wikispecies as on group with the exception that for links from wikipedia to these project a template is used that creates an interwiki link instead of an langlink [12:53:21] yea, on the wikibase side, this distinction isn't even needed. [12:53:46] on wikipedia, the link to commons and species will (probably?) not be shown automatically in the sidebar [12:53:52] that would confuse people I suppose. [12:54:21] for now, wikipedia would need to use the old templates for that [12:55:18] but we could rewrite the commonscat template lokally, so that it creates interwikilinks based on wikidata instead of a parameter in soure code [12:55:36] New patchset: Daniel Kinzler; "Introduce link path in the Site interface" [mediawiki/extensions/Wikibase] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/22912 [12:56:16] New review: Daniel Kinzler; "Fixed inconsistencies and test cases." [mediawiki/extensions/Wikibase] (master); V: 0 C: 0; - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/22912 [12:59:11] Merlissimo: yes. eventually. currently, there's no mechanism to get that info into the template [12:59:34] that functionality is not planned for pahse I, it will only be implemented with phase II for infobox data [13:00:20] DanielW_WMDE, Jens_WMDE: is john there? can you poke him for me? [13:00:57] DanielK_WMDE: done. [13:01:16] i want to know whether he's waiting on me for https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/23083/1 [13:01:18] Denny_WMDE: thanks [13:02:19] hey jeblad_WMDE [13:02:41] about your comment to https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/23083/1 - do you think that needs fixing? [13:02:54] i think it's fine to set that flag redundantly. [13:03:02] any reason not to merge that patch? [13:03:29] I think it should not be set twice.. [13:03:35] But thats me [13:04:24] jeblad_WMDE: ok - then let's set it only where we really know that we actually want to create a new item in the database. That is, at the later point in time. [13:04:49] But it could be argued wetter it should be set because something _is_ new, or because something is _created_ new [13:05:18] jeblad_WMDE: it always confuses me when i get a comment with a 0. Am I supposed to do something? If I don't do anything, will the patch be merged?... [13:05:47] jeblad_WMDE: it should be set only if we are sure that the caller intended to create a new. [13:05:54] I think the correct place to set it is when you create the item, and not as a side effect of how we store the item.. [13:05:58] * jeblad_WMDE thinks.. [13:06:56] * jeblad_WMDE fell asleep [13:07:50] jeblad_WMDE: well... if we just set the flag in the modifyItem method of the module that actually allows item creation, we wouldn't need another implementation of createItem for every module. That could be generic. [13:08:02] checks if it still works [13:09:04] We need an item before we can get one from the database [13:10:13] We could perhaps have a method that returned a new one if no existing one could be found.. [13:10:23] New patchset: Jens Ohlig; "Special:ItemDisambiguation: Display language like "English (en)", but submit "en"" [mediawiki/extensions/Wikibase] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/23299 [13:10:53] And then make it necessary to say wetter it should be saved afterwards [13:12:30] There is two failures that showed up today.. [13:12:44] They come from the url stuff [13:13:24] New review: John Erling Blad; "Ooops.." [mediawiki/extensions/Wikibase] (master); V: 1 C: 2; - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/23083 [13:13:25] Change merged: John Erling Blad; [mediawiki/extensions/Wikibase] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/23083 [13:15:28] Sorry, I fell on the mice [13:21:11] jeblad_WMDE: "the url stuff"? [13:22:17] apropos [13:22:32] AnjaJ_WMDE: can you give me the details on the test failures you mentioned? [13:25:14] oh, i think i see them. ugh. will look into that. [13:26:21] There are two failing tests, both for url stuff [13:26:49] I added something last week and it seems like it is that stuff [13:27:06] URLs are not available during testing somehow [13:27:45] New patchset: Daniel Kinzler; "[Bug 40078] New function Sites::getSiteGroup" [mediawiki/extensions/Wikibase] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/23300 [13:35:07] New review: John Erling Blad; "Make a better solution to the hacketi hack hack when you have time" [mediawiki/extensions/Wikibase] (master); V: 1 C: 2; - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/23296 [13:35:07] Change merged: John Erling Blad; [mediawiki/extensions/Wikibase] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/23296 [13:44:37] Change merged: John Erling Blad; [mediawiki/extensions/Wikibase] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/23300 [13:48:39] Change merged: Daniel Werner; [mediawiki/extensions/Wikibase] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/22200 [13:49:56] Change merged: Daniel Werner; [mediawiki/extensions/Wikibase] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/23293 [13:53:36] New review: John Erling Blad; "Seems like I can't get the expecte behavior, I only get the language code and not the full string." [mediawiki/extensions/Wikibase] (master); V: 0 C: 0; - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/23299 [13:57:25] New patchset: Jens Ohlig; "Remaining layout changes as requested at demo time for Special:ItemDisambiguation" [mediawiki/extensions/Wikibase] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/23301 [13:57:28] New patchset: Daniel Kinzler; "[Bug 38263, 40077] Restrict sitelinks to site grp." [mediawiki/extensions/Wikibase] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/23302 [14:05:53] grr, jeblad_WMDE is offline again ?! [14:06:08] anyway, i'm going to look into "the url stuff" now [14:17:14] Change merged: Daniel Werner; [mediawiki/extensions/Wikibase] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/23295 [14:18:25] DanielK_WMDE: I am poking jeblad again. He said it was not intentional [14:19:37] * jeblad_WMDE drags his fat ass into the channel... [14:19:44] you asked my lord? [14:19:54] ...we hav no brains today.. [14:19:54] guys... [14:20:40] as will be the wikidata vocabulary/schema? [14:22:12] Denny_WMDE? [14:23:39] New patchset: Daniel Kinzler; "Introduce link path in the Site interface" [mediawiki/extensions/Wikibase] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/22912 [14:23:50] Raylton: can you rephrase the question? [14:23:51] New review: Daniel Kinzler; "rebased" [mediawiki/extensions/Wikibase] (master); V: 0 C: 0; - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/22912 [14:23:53] jeblad_WMDE: yes? [14:30:01] Denny_WMDE, in wikidata will be something similar to "XML Schema", "RDF Schema" to specify properties in smw? If yes... How does that work in wikidata? [14:30:14] New patchset: Daniel Kinzler; "Provide pathes in test sites." [mediawiki/extensions/Wikibase] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/23303 [14:31:13] Denny_WMDE, you understand? [14:31:29] Raylton: this will be like in SMW. I.e. editors can introduce and define properties, which are then used. [14:31:53] Raylton: The properties will be exported and described in OWL / RDF [14:32:03] Raylton: as well as in JSON [14:32:16] jeblad_WMDE, AnjaJ_WMDE: fix for the failing tests is on gerrit. If7104c3a (depends on I027dab75 for sanity) [14:32:24] will ya'll be providing translation services for bugs filed in notenglish? ;) [14:32:55] New review: Daniel Werner; "Not pretty how the value changes again after sending the form, and how the short code is displayed i..." [mediawiki/extensions/Wikibase] (master); V: 1 C: 2; - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/23299 [14:32:57] jeremyb: that could actually be a new service for translatewiki.net [14:33:14] DanielK_WMDE: i was thinking WMDE ;P [14:33:15] jeremyb: (i was going to joke about it, but i think it would actually be cool to do that) [14:33:43] jeremyb: well, there'S no reason to believe we'll get a lot of reports in german. [14:33:54] but it would be nice to allow people to file bug reports in whatever their native lnaguage is [14:33:55] DanielK_WMDE: i think there have been 2 in 5 mins? [14:34:06] jeremyb: if needed i can take care of that but i'd rather only do that when really needed [14:34:35] it's exacerbated because google translate is allergic to SSL for some reason [14:34:37] jeremyb: huh, apparently [14:34:56] jeremyb: but when we deploy, we'll be getting most in hungarian, i'm afraid :) [14:35:04] hah! [14:36:02] i guess i should try again to fix google translate... [14:36:05] * jeremyb pokes [14:36:17] New patchset: Daniel Werner; "Special:ItemDisambiguation: Display language like "English (en)", but submit "en"" [mediawiki/extensions/Wikibase] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/23299 [14:36:37] Change merged: Daniel Werner; [mediawiki/extensions/Wikibase] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/23299 [14:37:53] \o/ [14:40:17] Denny_WMDE, and if I'm writing, for example, a biography. there will be some mechanism to later add standard properties (like birth, nationality etc). Or will it continue to be done by infobox? [14:41:25] DanielK_WMDE: Fatal error: Call to undefined method Sites::getGroupSites() in /home/john/Workspace/Wikibase/repo/includes/ItemView.php on line 423 [14:41:28] Raylton: what gets shown in the wikipedia page is decided by the infobox template. [14:41:45] Seems like it depends on something you have not commiten [14:41:49] Raylton: the template is responsible for the formatting, selecting what gets shown, where, how, in which order, etc [14:41:52] committed [14:42:04] jeblad_WMDE: o_O [14:42:19] how the hell? [14:42:28] jeblad_WMDE: i'm confused now. will have a look. [14:42:44] There is a parent for the commit [14:42:56] Raylton: I am not sure I understand your question. Writing the article in WIkitext in WIkipedia and entering data in Wikidata would, for now,not be too tightly linked. This is an exercise left for later. [14:43:50] jeblad_WMDE: yes, there is a parent. if you use git review to fetch the change, it will automatically also pull the parent. [14:44:14] jeblad_WMDE: if I do this, I find no reference to getGroupSites anywhere in the code. that's in a separate change. [14:44:15] Did so, it fails [14:44:46] Searched for the method, it does not exist [14:45:33] jeblad_WMDE: yes, and it's not used. not in this change. [14:46:00] there's no reference to it in my ItemView. Line 423 only contains a closing bracket. [14:46:10] please make sure you have a clean copy if the change [14:46:55] Change abandoned: John Erling Blad; "Should not be used, mark messages by comments if they shall not be translated" [mediawiki/extensions/Wikibase] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/21330 [14:47:14] New patchset: Daniel Kinzler; "Removed a bunch of unused settings." [mediawiki/extensions/Wikibase] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/23304 [14:47:32] I always clear out and pull for each review [14:48:24] jeblad_WMDE: did you test the change as-is, or after mergin master into it? [14:48:55] no I have not rebased, I use your changeset [14:49:03] Denny_WMDE: what do you think, https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=40132 ? [14:49:03] then i'm stumped. [14:49:08] because - it's not on there [14:49:24] Change merged: Daniel Werner; [mediawiki/extensions/Wikibase] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/23301 [14:49:24] Its not in your changeset? [14:50:53] jeblad_WMDE: no. [14:51:29] jeblad_WMDE: are you sure your master is clean? you *can* make local changes to master... [14:52:11] Jens_WMDE: oh please no. see my comment. What language is used for the lables and descriptions on the disambig page? the UI language or the search language? [14:53:57] Jens_WMDE: can you translate this for me? google translate fails me: WikiData가 만들어지면, 거기에 한 번 심취(?)해볼까. [14:54:00] Change merged: John Erling Blad; [mediawiki/extensions/Wikibase] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/22912 [14:54:22] let's keep bug 40132 for discussion in story time on thursday. but i tend to agree with both daniels. i.e. it is both possibly confusing and yet desired. [14:54:38] ok [14:55:22] Lydia_WMDE: any kontext? [14:55:25] context? [14:56:19] hm, can anyone other than jeblad_WMDE check out If7104c3a and see if they have the same problem as john? Namely Call to undefined method Sites::getGroupSites() in /home/john/Workspace/Wikibase/repo/includes/ItemView.php on line 423 [14:58:33] You are evil, I also want to play with If7104c3a :( [14:58:50] * jeblad_WMDE is laughing [14:58:56] muhahaha [14:59:10] The two failures are gone.. [14:59:21] ?? [14:59:21] Change merged: John Erling Blad; [mediawiki/extensions/Wikibase] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/23303 [14:59:48] jeblad_WMDE: sooo.... what cause the error earlier? [14:59:57] anyway, thanks for merging :) [15:00:11] those were the two failures for the url [15:01:25] no i mean what happened to "Call to undefined method Sites::getGroupSites()" [15:01:54] rebased and got an edit conflict in ItemView [15:02:03] hm... :) [15:02:24] Jens_WMDE: did you mean to merge I4d192cb1? if not, what's missing? [15:03:06] sorry, merge coming up! [15:03:11] jeblad_WMDE: while you are at it: I9ed008d7 should be really easy [15:03:17] Jens_WMDE: no problem, just wondering [15:03:24] Change merged: Jens Ohlig; [mediawiki/extensions/Wikibase] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/23304 [15:04:08] Change merged: Jens Ohlig; [mediawiki/extensions/Wikibase] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/23084 [15:04:17] Denny_WMDE, Abraham_WMDE: do you guys want to chat now? I have to run to the store real quick before we have the conf call with sf... [15:04:34] so, let's get this done quick :) [15:04:49] DanielK_WMDE: in 10 min ok? [15:04:56] we call you via skype [15:05:08] DanielK_WMDE: or 20 min. 10 minutes is probably not enough for store. [15:05:20] Abraham_WMDE: or we do it at 17:30, then i can run to the store now. [15:05:28] DanielK_WMDE: run, forest run [15:05:31] :P [15:05:33] kk [15:05:34] Seems like a fix I wrote messed p the merge, but it was in an unrelated part of the code [15:05:47] DanielK_WMDE: ok 17:30 [15:13:08] Denny_WMDE, sorry for the delay .... I understand, but the infobox will stay on wikipedia or wikidata? [15:15:59] Raylton: the content will be in wikidata - the templates in the wikipedias [15:16:11] (content of the infoboxes) [15:17:24] New patchset: Daniel Werner; "Moved special page stuff from startup to their own files" [mediawiki/extensions/Wikibase] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/23305 [15:18:10] New patchset: John Erling Blad; "[Bug 38263, 40077] Restrict sitelinks to site grp." [mediawiki/extensions/Wikibase] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/23302 [15:18:39] New patchset: Daniel Werner; "Moved special page stuff from startup to their own files" [mediawiki/extensions/Wikibase] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/23305 [15:19:34] New review: John Erling Blad; "Oki, hopefully this won't break anything.." [mediawiki/extensions/Wikibase] (master); V: 1 C: 2; - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/23302 [15:19:34] Change merged: John Erling Blad; [mediawiki/extensions/Wikibase] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/23302 [15:19:55] Lydia_WMDE, How to organize this content extracted from the template, there will be some interface? [15:20:19] Raylton: no content will be extracted from the template [15:20:58] Lydia_WMDE, you say: "the content will be in wikidata - the templates in the wikipedias" [15:21:20] yes [15:21:27] Lydia_WMDE, I'm confused [15:21:42] the wikipedias will have infobox templates [15:21:52] and these templates will get their data from wikidata [15:22:01] does that help? [15:22:59] so the content will be add from wikidata [15:23:08] yes [15:24:14] like default value? [15:24:37] And then there are no failures for wikibase and all changes I can merge is now merged. [15:24:37] Change merged: Aude; [mediawiki/extensions/Wikibase] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/23298 [15:24:51] * jeblad_WMDE rips off his clothes and runs out in the sun [15:24:56] Raylton: i am not sure what you mean [15:25:56] Lydia_WMDE, like {{{1|VALUE FROM WIKIDATA}}} ? [15:26:08] no, he didn't… (re jeblad_WMDE) [15:26:21] ;P [15:26:21] Raylton: one sec - i'll get you a link [15:26:48] Raylton: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikidata/Notes/Inclusion_syntax describes how we think this should work [15:30:35] Lydia_WMDE, Raylton: note that that spec will be overhauled soon. [15:32:39] jep [15:32:42] alright folks [15:32:45] time for me to go home [15:32:59] happy to discuss more on-wiki, by email or when i am back here [15:33:06] laters :) [15:33:27] DanielK_WMDE: ready? [15:33:39] *munch* *munch* *munch* [15:33:46] hmm. ready [15:34:34] Lydia_WMDE, it's confuse... [15:35:31] DanielK_WMDE: we can hear you [15:36:38] Lydia_WMDE, there will be an id per page or per infobox? [15:39:00] Lydia_WMDE, ok... wikilink propriety... now i understand... [15:39:28] *property [15:39:44] An id per item, and then you specify which property you want [15:39:52] Can be additional qualifiers [15:40:34] If your on a page in Wikipedia and don't provide an item id the linked item will be used [15:41:07] That is, all pages (articles) are linked from a "hub" in Wikidata [15:42:01] And all pages with langlinks describes the same entity (aka item or topic) [15:42:44] So usually the item id is implicitly given and you only have to provide the property you want some data for.. [15:43:00] "population" for example [15:44:50] New templates will probably be "smart" and use Wikidata as far as possible, but let users override data if it is necessary for whatever reason [15:46:01] So if I add the parser function "# {{property:population}}" to a tamplate, like {{infobox}}, it will be changed according to the id of the item? [15:46:01] 10[1] 10https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Template:property:population13 => [15:46:03] 10[2] 10https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Template:infobox [15:46:26] Yes [15:46:29] {{#property:population}}* [15:46:50] perfect [15:46:53] Imagine somethng like.. [15:47:11] ...{{{population|{{#property:population}}}}}... [15:47:50] Insted of defaulting to empty you defaults to Wikidatas entry for "population" given the present page [15:48:31] But note that there are other proposals floating around, so this is just an example. [15:49:47] yes... that's what I thought... it's amazing... [15:50:22] It is also important to note that Wikidata will not have "the answer", it will only list possible answers [15:51:31] That is important as people and countries may disagree on specific facts, and we only list the claims and source them [15:52:06] That way we can have numbers for the armenian genocide without saying which number are right [15:52:26] Or pick whatever debated fact you want.. [15:53:29] Its amazing how hard it is do agree on quite simple facts.. :) [15:53:40] jeblad_WMDE, So a property can have two values? [15:53:52] Yes, .. [15:54:11] But the sources and qualifiers might be different [15:54:59] ok [15:55:09] A simple case; Berlin had A citizens in 2000 and B citizens in 2010 [15:56:02] cooool [15:56:33] Or a mor funny one; some source may say Hitler never died so he is still alive! On the Moon or whatever [15:56:34] jeblad_WMDE, So... if I wanted to create an infobox to users profile. It would be possible to work as global account? [15:57:11] Så we can add an entry saying Prof No Brain says Hitler is still alive and lives on the Moon. [15:57:50] I doubt any Wikipedia will choose to use that claim as his non-existing death date [15:59:02] about Hitler: I think this feature may leave a little more reliable wikipedia [15:59:47] I don't think it will be possible to use the default entity mechanism outside the Wikipedia main space.. But surely, infoboxes for the users could be interesting as they descfribe the "single entity" that is necessary to get this to work. [16:00:43] Data in the infoboxes will be better sourced than today I think, that is very important.. [16:00:51] Raylton: on enwiki there is a person who promised that he will "come back" after his death. You can visit his corpse at his mausoleum. Because some people still receive "spiritual guidance" from him he is not categorised as dead on enwiki. [16:01:17] only all other wikipedias do so [16:01:25] And larger Wikipedias will help smaller ones to get the infoboxes right, that will create a tremendeous boost to them [16:02:03] ...not sure if I like the Moon now.. [16:03:42] Merlissimo, this is an interesting case ... I did not know that ... = D [16:05:15] Raylton: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Riaz_Ahmed_Gohar_Shahi#Dead_or_disappeared [16:05:33] jeblad_WMDE, what the reason it can not work outside the main Wikipedia space? Other data also not accurate to better organization? [16:06:11] Change merged: Daniel Werner; [mediawiki/extensions/Wikibase] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/23297 [16:06:12] Read "not work" as "not supported behavior" [16:07:04] I think it could work, but it will probably not reach our to-do list anytime soon [16:11:14] jeblad_WMDE, be that you all could not reconsider? Because it might save you the work of staff in http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/GlobalProfile/design [16:12:31] New patchset: Jens Ohlig; "Moved special page stuff from startup to their own files" [mediawiki/extensions/Wikibase] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/23305 [16:13:04] The main focus is mainspace of Wikipedia, but write a proper description of the usecase and add it as a note at [[m:Wikidata]] [16:13:04] 10[3] 10https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikidata [16:13:21] New patchset: Jens Ohlig; "Moved special page stuff from startup to their own files" [mediawiki/extensions/Wikibase] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/23305 [16:13:27] [[m:Wikidata/notes]] something [16:13:27] 10[4] 10https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikidata/notes [16:14:25] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikidata/Development#Development_notes [16:14:45] Change merged: Jens Ohlig; [mediawiki/extensions/Wikibase] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/23305 [16:15:33] jeblad_WMDE: can you merge this? https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/23305/ [16:15:39] oh sorry [16:15:42] never mind [16:16:03] Good afternoon [16:16:06] Will cost you half a kilo of choclate [16:16:10] Hi [16:16:22] jeblad_WMDE: already merged. [16:16:36] Does anyone here know if Wikidata would be usefule for storing 'legislative' index cross reference data [16:16:38] ? [16:16:54] describe [16:17:17] in wikipedia or outside wikipedia? [16:17:21] jeblad_WMDE: In the UK , Statute legislation frequently contains references to other legislation... [16:17:49] In Wikisource I've been transcribing a number of old statutes (of English origin) [16:19:07] For example something might be known by at least 3 different titles... [16:19:24] An entity referencing an entity is going to be supported, .. [16:19:59] I'm not familiar with how German statutes work, but would imagine there is some kind of way of crossreferencing between different ones [16:20:14] Ah, jes this should be handled as aliases in wikidata [16:20:37] ON a simmilar note US Code (Fedral law of the US) frequently cross references to other portions of itself.. [16:20:53] jeblad_WMDE, thank you so much =D [16:21:05] In terms of US things, at least it's one system... [16:21:19] The entity will be a single concept, but can have a lot of aliases and also the aliases in different languages will be independent of eachother [16:22:00] With English (and Commonwealth) stuff, it can get rather complex, as what is the SAME item can be known as different things in different Jurisdictions... for example some Canadian constiutional Law has a completely different title in Canada [16:22:03] than it does in the UK [16:22:57] Raylton: For exact boundraries of what we will and will not support you should ask Lydia or Denny, I think.. [16:23:05] On a related note , There are English laws that used to apply to Ireland that were Repealed at two different dates in the UK and RoI [16:24:41] The UK SLD itself tracks quite a LOT of amendments, but i'm not sure if it's data model has been released under the UK OGL yet... [16:25:21] It may be that the 'SLD' meta-data (i.e repeals) is already in an XML like format, but would of course need tweaking for Wikidata use [16:25:28] Just a crazy idea of course [16:25:30] ;) [16:25:35] Not sure how I would add ammendments but I think this is the "entity having another entity as property" -problem [16:26:45] The thing is; Wikidata is not only about storing fragmented data, it is about linking those data together [16:26:57] Ammendments are usally of the Section of the Act , is ammended as follows : - After the text insert/delete .... etc [16:27:04] form [16:27:19] A man has a wife, and they have childrens [16:27:21] Repeals are typically an entire Act , or specfic sections [16:28:17] jeblad_WMDE: A starting point would be the {{infobox UK legislation}} template at English Wikipedia... but that can't cope with mutliple repeal data at the moment [16:28:17] 10[5] 10https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Template:infobox_UK_legislation [16:28:28] Adam is an entity that links to (has a property that is another entity) Eva which is again an entity [16:29:28] Both Adam and Eva is items in Wikidata, and have links from wikipedia [16:30:04] If you have Act A with repeal A' then A' can be found through A [16:30:45] And A will only have a section "repeals" where all those repeals are listed [16:31:10] And you will have qualifiers that says what is the present status for them I think.. [16:31:43] * jeblad_WMDE wonder if he get killed byt the people making the data model now... :D [16:37:56] re [17:10:28] jeblad_WMDE: sounds reasonable [17:11:12] So I didn't get killed! =) [17:11:42] not by me. i cannot give any promises about the community [17:12:03] Denny_WMDE [17:12:04] Hi [17:12:18] Jeblad Said you knew stuff [17:13:03] On legislatvie stuff, I also find that I sometimes need a translation table between Regnal years and Calander years [17:15:52] I was working on this - http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Index:Public_General_Statutes_1896.djvu and found I needed a data to keep track of various cross references :) [17:16:18] If Wikidata can come up with a way of storing statute crossreferences :) [17:24:20] Qcoder02: maybe. on the level "statute X references statue Y" — yes [17:24:39] X amends Y [17:24:43] as well [17:24:46] X repeals part of Y etc [17:25:02] well, if the property is called "repeals part of", yes [17:25:04] Going into depth about exact sub sections would need a much more complex data model [17:25:11] right [17:25:34] Denny_WMDE: This seems a bit like what I tried to do with Wikiventory back in 2005/6 :( [17:25:41] Ask robchurch [17:25:50] he might still have the database from that [17:26:11] you have a link? [17:44:30] Any idea when this will be completed? [17:44:45] Will there be a SPARQL browser? [17:45:35] CrazyThinker: completed: a week before wikipedia is (i.e., never). a first version deployed: in some weeks. [17:45:55] Well, will that be still in beta? [17:46:01] I mean, after a week? [17:46:57] CrazyThinker: we do not plan a SPARQL browser. [17:48:15] CrazyThinker: we will continually work on it to improve it, but we will deploy a first version this autumn. [17:48:30] Awesome [17:49:00] Will there be any data already available in it in the autumn? Would you be boostrapping it with dbpedia or something? [17:50:12] CrazyThinker: no we will not but the community might decide to do so [17:50:46] That is good. May I ask what you guys are using to store these gigantic database? [17:50:55] Not a relation db. I presume [18:03:17] a relation db [18:03:33] the answer is half-right, half-wrong [18:03:47] we are using a relation db to store json blobs about the items [18:03:56] mysql? [18:04:04] but we will also use secondary storages to facilitate faster querying [18:04:11] but we have not decided on those yet [18:04:26] okay. Thanks a lot [18:04:43] Do you have a date fixed for first version? [18:04:44] mysql is the main tested one, but mediawiki has actually a sql-abstraction layer, thus also postgres, sqlite, etc. are possible [18:04:56] as soon as it is ready and reviewed [18:05:02] Great. [18:05:33] i am signing off for today [18:05:55] Thanks Denny_WMDE [18:08:23] So the view of the data will be similar to wikipedia?