[00:00:27] reosarevok: You're reading that correctly, but I'm confused as to why. [00:00:29] You read it correctly. [00:00:35] actually duplicates P131 [00:00:44] Someone mentioned that, yes [00:00:46] for uses which do not indicate for example nationality. [00:00:50] (on P131 talk) [00:01:19] P17 does duplicate P131. [00:02:11] TCN7JM: see [[Property talk:P131#Replaced properties]] [00:02:12] [5] 10https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Property_talk:P131%23Replaced_properties [00:02:20] * Sky2042 thanks AsimovBot [00:02:28] Sky2042: Was already looking. [00:02:28] Someone said in February "I started a debate about depreciating country in Wikidata_talk:List_of_properties." [00:02:38] But I guess that's in history and was refused [00:02:43] Since country is still there [00:03:06] When it's put like this, I'm about ready to nominate P17 for deletion. [00:03:43] As long as you ensure all countries are marked as instance of country and linked as in-administrative-unit first, it'd seem reasonable [00:04:15] I also realize I've been using P131 incorrectly the entire time, and need to fix my usages. [00:05:09] hold on with p17 [00:05:15] i want to look at the archives first [00:05:48] I wasn't planning on it right now. [00:06:10] yeah, no one actually submitted it for deletion. [00:06:11] https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata_talk:List_of_properties/Archive/2013/03#Country.3F [00:06:23] P131 is currently up for deletion anyway. If P17 gets deleted and P131 follows or vice versa, then we're pretty screwed. [00:06:33] P131 probably won't be deleted. [00:06:42] If we can't get P107 deleted, no way P131 goes anywhere. [00:06:45] :| [00:06:50] * Sky2042 kicks kolja. [00:07:39] (This is why we shouldn't have a committee decision on these things.) [00:07:53] heh governance [00:07:59] Whatever you pick everyone's angry :) [00:08:33] If the reasoning "It can be inferred that Pierre is in the USA from 'P131 = South Dakota'" is true, which it is, then P17 should not exist. [00:09:10] Even in that case, Pierre P131 USA is also technically correct [00:09:20] Since, well, P17 is pretty much a type of P131 [00:09:23] reosarevok: But also not as useful. [00:09:25] Yes, but the lowest possible administrative unit should be used. [00:09:28] ^ [00:09:34] It should be P131 = Hughes County [00:09:43] Oh, mind, I'm not saying it shouldn't [00:10:00] We're adding areas to MB and we're doing it in that way [00:10:32] I've been doing stuff with South Dakota and adding a hierarchical pyramind of units to P131. I have to go redo those now. :\ :\ :\ [00:10:42] But with the current rules, that's not the case, or is it? [00:11:05] http://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Property_talk:P131#How_many_layers_to_include.3F [00:11:19] Seems to be undecided? [00:12:11] "The current practice seems to be just one level" is the closest to a guideline I can find :) [00:12:27] Which I'm rectifying my edits to do :) [00:12:44] The problem is also wtf is one level [00:13:02] Some places are kinda crazy with that [00:13:47] Especially with how cities fit in levels I guess [00:14:07] You can also just use multiple items on one level. [00:14:07] the it's much the same question. some of the items in the tree of life are getting every level for no reason whatsoever. [00:14:22] For example, Sioux Falls is in both Minnehaha and Lincoln counties. [00:14:26] So I'd use both. [00:14:58] (Why you would build a town through a county line...) [00:15:14] If only, I guess sometimes it's the other way around [00:15:19] Which makes even less sense [00:15:40] Sky2042: It didn't happen that way. Sioux Falls started in Minnehaha County and grew south, annexing neighboring communities in Lincoln County. [00:16:02] Downtown Sioux Falls is a good three miles from the county line. [00:16:40] TCN7JM: In other words, Sioux Falls isn't actually in Lincoln County, is it? Or does the actual city border as documented by various geographical drawings actually fall in both sides of the county line? [00:16:45] :) [00:17:06] The city border falls on both sides of the county line. [00:17:29] A major road is drawn along the county line and there's definitely civilization south of it. [00:17:47] werd [00:17:48] Is it still oficially the same town? (guess is the question) [00:17:58] Yep. Still Sioux Falls. [00:18:02] weird :) [00:18:04] But well [00:18:20] New York City is in five counties if you think about it. [00:18:47] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apache_Junction,_Arizona is apparently in two, and it's tiny [00:19:07] x_x [00:20:04] Look at that little, tiny piece in Maricopa County. [00:20:27] Sioux Falls is definitely in both counties: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sioux_Falls,_South_Dakota [00:20:33] I mean, most of the UK cities are in one borough [00:20:50] Except London, where a bunch of boroughs are in one city, because consistency [00:21:12] (and then you have the City of London one, but well, yeah) [00:21:17] That's similar to NYC. [00:21:24] lol yeah, City of London. [00:22:07] * Sky2042 laughs at reosarevok [00:23:00] And you have Uganda, which has districts *and* kingdoms, which overlap [00:23:09] Or something like that [00:23:48] (That's no argument for keeping P17) [00:23:59] And then you have the subdivisions of Liechtenstein which are pure magic [00:24:15] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Liechtenstein-admin.png :) [00:24:32] (yes, in a country of 35k people) [00:24:42] what. [00:24:44] why [00:24:45] would [00:24:47] you [00:24:48] do [00:24:50] that [00:25:00] Liechtenstein is waaaaaaay too small for that. [00:25:12] I mean, population doesn't matter, but its area does. [00:25:14] I grew up in a town + a neighboring town that had as many people. -_- [00:25:33] Sioux Falls is nowhere near a city of its size. [00:25:39] Omaha is about three hours south of us. [00:25:45] Sky2042: and you didn't have 11 subdivisions, in several bits, some completely cut off from each other? [00:25:49] what a boring town :p [00:25:57] x_x [00:28:09] Anyway, yeah, none of that is an argument for keeping P17 :) [00:28:21] (just fun facts of administrative divisions being silly) [00:28:46] Geography is cool! *nerdy smile* [00:29:10] Until you need to find out where you vote in Liechtenstein :D [00:29:21] (disclaimer: maybe they'll all vote together, I have no idea) [00:32:17] One of the things we want to do is to extract city info from wikipedia infoboxes and import it into wikidata so that we can also reuse it on musicbrainz. Wonder how hard that'll end up being :) [00:32:41] reuse city info on musicbrainz? whats the use case? [00:33:03] also, why wouldn't you just extract the wikidata directly? [00:33:18] Because wikidata lacks pretty much all the info of *where* the cities are [00:33:38] (we want them by subdivision, the most wikidata seems to have in most cases is per country) [00:33:58] And the use case is stuff like birth places [00:34:06] And regions / cities for bands [00:34:17] ah [00:34:18] "Give me all the music for free download by bands from Leeds" [00:34:27] :D [00:34:32] wikidata rules! [00:34:52] "in most cases is per country" -> sounds like data is incomplete, right? [00:34:56] indeed [00:35:03] that's why we want to add the data from wikipedia [00:35:20] (where it's much more complete, if not always consistently formatted) [00:35:21] so you want more P131...? [00:35:29] P131 > P17 [00:35:39] Yeah, the idea would be to add P131s [00:35:55] when they don't exist [00:36:41] Probably only up to the subdivision level that gets ISO codes though, since that's what we have (but we'll see - maybe it's "easy" enough to go deeper) [00:37:05] (of course, how deep that is depends a lot - USA states vs those things in Liechtenstein [00:37:05] ) [00:37:44] We extracted a list of the stuff already in wikidata and got http://mbsandbox.org/~nikki/cities.txt [00:37:58] (that's the ones that map to the subdivisions we have without recursion) [00:38:06] Apparently with recursion it's like 1k more [00:38:22] Still a very small amount of all the ones marked as cities though [00:38:34] that merge.js on the project chat is neat [00:39:04] reosarevok: Sure. [00:39:11] recursion is fun. [00:41:11] Sky2042: I haven't installed that merge.js yet? Is it worth it? [00:41:32] i would say so for items not already merged by something. [00:41:46] I'll try it out. [00:41:49] it can also delete the old item automagically. [00:41:57] Nice! [00:41:57] s/old/deprecated/ [01:25:48] merge.js seems to choke on moving anything more than like 3 links and 2 claims though. [01:26:22] Well I only had to move one claim, so I used it because I was lazy. [01:26:46] Ricardisamoa is probably going to fix errors. [01:26:53] naturally [02:17:22] I think merge.js is choking on the claims that are strings. [02:18:15] Only had to use it twice. [02:18:33] Never had a problem with it. Didn't get any string claims, either, though. [04:36:48] Hey all. [04:36:56] Anyone here have any opinions on the Samsung Galaxy Note 2 [04:37:32] I'm thinking of getting a new phone [04:38:09] I'd like one that supports Wikidata editing (i.e. has Javascript) [04:39:48] All smartphones today have JS [04:49:51] legoktm: Well I have an iPhone 3GS [04:49:59] That has JS [04:50:08] and I can't edit Wikidata on it [04:50:16] oh really? [04:50:20] yeah [04:50:23] Which iOS version? [04:51:32] 3.something [04:51:41] I never made the jump to 5 [04:51:55] and certainly not 6, which I didn't even know was out until yesterday [04:52:00] 4.0 should work. [04:52:36] I don't want to put iTunes onto my new (year old at this point) computer [04:52:55] Heh. [04:52:56] Smart. [04:53:07] Well I love my iPhone 4S and hate android [04:53:28] But all new-ish smart phones should have JS support [04:55:36] do Android devices have flash? [04:55:48] Some do. [04:56:01] I think [06:17:00] Hey. Anyone have any views on https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/08/Wikidata_reviews_property_issue.png [06:23:35] i like the "right way" [06:26:24] well yeah [06:26:28] because it's the right way [06:26:32] :P [06:27:25] legoktm: https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Project_chat#Issue_with_the_implementation_of_the_review_score_property [06:28:56] Jasper_Deng: I need your French-speaking-powerz - what's going on at https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeu_historique ? [06:29:05] QuelqueChoseRose: ^^ if you're arounf [06:29:08] around* [06:30:35] this sounds unverifiable [06:31:00] its direct translation is "historic game" [06:33:05] yeah, I'm thinking it's going to need deleting [06:33:35] I can't imagine that it's not a duplicate of something else already on projct [06:35:47] Sven_Manguard: addihockey10 is inviting you to his chan, he's a (semi-)native speaker [07:19:33] http://ultimategerardm.blogspot.nl/2013/05/wikipedia-articles-do-not-always-fit.html What do you think ? [07:20:54] GerardM: I'm actually in the process of writing a similar blog [07:20:59] I like where you're going [07:21:11] but it's 2:20 AM so I'm going to bed [07:21:13] cheers [07:21:22] 9:21 AM [07:21:50] I'm in Chicago, IL, USA for the week [07:21:58] I'm guessing you're in Germany? [07:27:06] the Netherlands [09:01:21] Hello, I'm Hezi and I'm at the Hackathon in Tel Aviv. I want to store some data on wikidata.org for dynamic update of some Hebrew wiki pages. Can anybody help me to set that up please? :) [09:13:46] New patchset: Henning Snater; "Add .jshintrc for Wikibase and make it pass" [mediawiki/extensions/Wikibase] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/64472 [09:26:31] aude / DanielK_WMDE / DanielFriesen - this is aharoni . can you help hezi? ^ [09:32:13] hezi: many of us are traveling today... [09:32:57] * DanielK_WMDE still isn't sure whether he'll get on a plane tonight or stay home to help with sick kids. [09:33:03] hezi: which page on hewiki? [09:34:14] We want to add data to all IL parliament member pages from the "open knesset" website [09:34:47] It's mainly stats on parliament member activity [09:35:12] hezi: so let's start with one page. can you give me a link? [09:35:43] (i suppose someone with any command of hebrew would probably be a better choice for this task) [09:36:00] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D7%91%D7%A0%D7%99%D7%9E%D7%99%D7%9F_%D7%A0%D7%AA%D7%A0%D7%99%D7%94%D7%95 [09:36:43] This is the English page [09:37:16] Here is the Hebrew: http://he.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D7%91%D7%A0%D7%99%D7%9E%D7%99%D7%9F_%D7%A0%D7%AA%D7%A0%D7%99%D7%94%D7%95 [09:37:30] hezi: https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q43723 already has quite a lot of info. you could add more, but we could start by just using that on hewiki [09:38:31] yes, hewiki was the original idea! [09:41:06] hezi: sorry, i'm on-and-off at the moment, have to look after stuff at home. will reply in a few minutes [09:43:44] DanielK_WMDE: Thank you! [09:44:33] aude: ping [09:53:59] hezi: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Benjamin_Netanyahu&diff=556403808&oldid=556274339 [09:54:08] that's all you have to do to use the signature property from wikidata [09:55:16] hezi: you can do the same with other properties, like "member of political party"; the problem is that you can't be sure that "Likud" actually is the correct page on the local wiki. [09:55:41] wikidata will give you the local *name* of the item the property points to, not the local *page* [09:55:56] i wonder whether we have a ticket open for that on bugzilla [09:56:12] would be great if you could collect feedback about issues like this [09:58:40] hezi: you could of course also put the parser function into the template itself. [09:59:51] so, inside the template, you could use {{#property:signature}} instead of {{{signature}}} - or, more likely: {{#if:{{{signature|}}}|{{{signature}}}|{{#property:signature}}}} to use the signature from wikidata as a default, to be used when no signature parameter is given explicitly [10:04:44] DanielK_WMDE: do you have an update for me ? would like to move items on the taskboard :) [10:05:18] We're going to lunch, I'll be back soon! [10:05:29] hezi: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=48742 [10:06:06] New review: Henning Snater; "Just like core does, we definitely should use the "laxbreak" option since readabilty of multi-line i..." [mediawiki/extensions/Wikibase] (master) C: -1; - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/64472 [10:06:12] Abraham_WMDE: working on content negotiation for entity data, rdf for claims is postponed until next week. [10:06:18] Abraham_WMDE: that's abotu it sprint-wise. [10:06:35] Abraham_WMDE: i hope i can tell you in a minute whether i'm going to the hackathon. [10:07:21] DanielK_WMDE: ok. thx. [10:20:20] DanielK_WMDE: what you not coming? [10:25:23] aude: baby's sick... [10:25:49] Abraham_WMDE, aude: But i'm coming. Just talked to my wife. Idea is a bit better now. [10:25:58] my phone is broken, though. again. [10:26:04] this sucks. [10:26:50] :( [10:27:11] but glad you are coming :) [10:28:27] DanielK_WMDE: ok fine [10:36:06] Abraham_WMDE: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/48743 [10:36:36] aude: thx [10:36:37] i'll need to figure out how to submit stuff to gerrit via labs and the proxy stuff [10:36:55] and review the puppet to see if anything else needs to be changed [10:47:50] New patchset: Tobias Gritschacher; "Fixed failure in Selenium test due to bubble animation" [mediawiki/extensions/Wikibase] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/65103 [10:48:27] Change merged: Tobias Gritschacher; [mediawiki/extensions/Wikibase] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/65103 [11:00:13] New patchset: Tobias Gritschacher; "Added additional sleep on RC load in Selenium tests" [mediawiki/extensions/Wikibase] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/65104 [11:00:27] Change merged: Tobias Gritschacher; [mediawiki/extensions/Wikibase] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/65104 [11:24:43] New patchset: Tobias Gritschacher; "Dismiss copyright warning in Selenium tests" [mediawiki/extensions/Wikibase] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/65105 [11:25:43] Change merged: Tobias Gritschacher; [mediawiki/extensions/Wikibase] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/65105 [11:27:51] New patchset: Tobias Gritschacher; "Fixed failure in Selenium test due to bubble animation" [mediawiki/extensions/Wikibase] (mw1.22-wmf5) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/65106 [11:27:51] New patchset: Tobias Gritschacher; "Added additional sleep on RC load in Selenium tests" [mediawiki/extensions/Wikibase] (mw1.22-wmf5) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/65107 [11:27:51] New patchset: Tobias Gritschacher; "Dismiss copyright warning in Selenium tests" [mediawiki/extensions/Wikibase] (mw1.22-wmf5) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/65108 [11:28:25] Change merged: Tobias Gritschacher; [mediawiki/extensions/Wikibase] (mw1.22-wmf5) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/65106 [11:28:39] Change merged: Tobias Gritschacher; [mediawiki/extensions/Wikibase] (mw1.22-wmf5) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/65107 [11:28:49] Change merged: Tobias Gritschacher; [mediawiki/extensions/Wikibase] (mw1.22-wmf5) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/65108 [11:44:05] Lydia_WMDE: when are you leaving for TXL? [11:44:16] JeroenDeDauw: taxi at 5 [11:59:20] New review: Jeroen De Dauw; "Agree with Henning, trying to stuff everything together so you have a single var keyword often seems..." [mediawiki/extensions/Wikibase] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/64472 [12:09:08] Lydia_WMDE: can haz share? or will it be full with ALL of the luggage? [12:09:17] we are taking swag w/ us right? [12:09:33] JeroenDeDauw: yes we are - it is in my luggage - you can take more if you want [12:09:46] JeroenDeDauw: yes you can share the taxi with aude and me [12:10:36] Tobi_WMDE: https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/64943/ [12:23:26] Hallo, jemand da der sich mit der Translation-Extension auskennt? [12:25:41] * aude has to go elsewhere before going to airport <- Lydia_WMDE JeroenDeDauw [12:25:51] * aude can meet up at airport [12:37:38] New patchset: Henning Snater; "Triggering "animationstep" event in snakview value variation" [mediawiki/extensions/Wikibase] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/65113 [12:38:38] New patchset: Henning Snater; "Input extender: Listening to "animationstep" event" [mediawiki/extensions/DataValues] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/65114 [12:57:16] Abraham_WMDE: is there anything planned for getting from the hotel to the venue? [12:57:35] i just found that it's quite far, and inconvenient by tram. [12:58:08] DanielK_WMDE: don't think that there is something planned. maybe Lydia has some details. the hotel was recommended [12:59:01] kk [13:10:35] New patchset: Henning Snater; "Input extender widget: Removed obsolete stopPropagation()" [mediawiki/extensions/DataValues] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/65116 [13:59:34] New patchset: Henning Snater; "List rotator widget: Assigning position absolute to menu" [mediawiki/extensions/DataValues] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/65118 [14:04:08] New patchset: Hoo man; "(bug 47726) Adds a link to corresponding Wikibase Item to action=info" [mediawiki/extensions/Wikibase] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/64644 [14:05:58] New patchset: Hoo man; "(bug 47726) Adds a link to corresponding Wikibase Item to action=info" [mediawiki/extensions/Wikibase] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/64644 [14:06:49] New review: Hoo man; "Fixed repo links in case items aren't in NS0 (maybe we should teach this to the repo linker). Messages." [mediawiki/extensions/Wikibase] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/64644 [14:35:39] New patchset: Henning Snater; "Always resize StringValue expert input element" [mediawiki/extensions/DataValues] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/65125 [14:45:30] New patchset: Jeroen De Dauw; "Added tests for exceptions in Diff constructor" [mediawiki/extensions/Diff] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/65127 [14:50:40] New patchset: Jeroen De Dauw; "Added tests for Diff getAddedValues and getRemovedValues" [mediawiki/extensions/Diff] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/65128 [15:13:32] hi, I m just wondering if I can find a page like Items with only links to Wikipedia Arabic [15:15:16] Can someone help me ? [15:17:16] hi, I m just wondering if I can find a page like Items with only links to Wikipedia Arabic [15:28:55] Helmoony: Hi [15:29:07] legoktm: hi [15:29:35] I'm not sure something like that exists. [15:30:34] legoktm:ok, I thought something like that may have been created [15:30:50] legoktm: any way thank you a lot [15:31:09] Someone might have created a TS tool or something, but it's not available as a special page [15:32:00] ok [15:38:54] New patchset: Henning Snater; "Unset language specific aliases set when removing the last alias" [mediawiki/extensions/Wikibase] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/65130 [16:52:58] New patchset: Henning Snater; "Unset language specific aliases set when removing the last alias" [mediawiki/extensions/Wikibase] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/65130 [17:29:57] * JohnLewis asks Reedy about his obession with Stwalkerster [17:53:30] 2 lots of fail [18:04:05] hello [18:04:20] Hi. [18:09:15] New review: Pragunbhutani; "(1 comment)" [mediawiki/extensions/Wikibase] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/64644 [20:32:10] New review: Hoo man; "(1 comment)" [mediawiki/extensions/Wikibase] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/64644 [20:42:07] New review: Hoo man; "It took me some time to find out why this even seemed to work.... good catch." [mediawiki/extensions/Wikibase] (master); V: 2 C: 2; - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/64974 [20:42:07] Change merged: Hoo man; [mediawiki/extensions/Wikibase] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/64974