[05:34:20] <ori-l>	 hi folks
[05:35:12] <legoktm>	 hey ori-l 
[05:35:47] <ori-l>	 i'm trying to incorporate wikidata-vagrant into mediawiki-vagrant as a role
[05:44:17] <ori-l>	 what exactly is the difference between 'client' and 'repo'?
[05:44:42] <legoktm>	 client is the stuff that runs on the various 'pedias
[05:44:47] <legoktm>	 repo == www.wikidata.org
[05:45:35] <ori-l>	 ohoh
[05:45:50] <ori-l>	 when doing development, do you need both mediawiki instances?
[05:46:00] <ori-l>	 or do people typically develop on one or the other?
[05:47:09] <legoktm>	 not sure, but i'm guessing if you're testing stuff like data and link transclusion you'd need both sites
[07:19:58] <Amir1>	 legoktm: are you there? do you have time? I did it, about my request
[07:20:32] <legoktm>	 going to sleep soon, is it urgent?
[07:21:30] <Amir1>	 no
[07:23:22] <legoktm>	 ok, well if you can drop a note on my talk page that would be preferred then
[07:26:20] <Amir1>	 no, i must talk about, it's about migrating to bugzilla
[07:26:45] <legoktm>	 ah ok. well we should talk about that when i'm not half asleep :P
[07:27:23] <Amir1>	 sure :)
[07:27:31] <Amir1>	 I just woke up 
[07:27:34] <Amir1>	 :D
[07:39:31] <gerrit-wm_>	 New patchset: Henning Snater; "Refactoring of GeoCoordinate parsers" [mediawiki/extensions/DataValues] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/70593
[08:10:39] <hashar>	 hello
[08:11:01] <hashar>	 I am going to restart Jenkins to apply some plugins updates. Expecting 15 - 20 minutes downtime.
[08:48:46] <gerrit-wm_>	 New review: Daniel Kinzler; "(1 comment)" [mediawiki/extensions/Wikibase] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/70164
[08:54:05] <gerrit-wm_>	 New patchset: Tobias Gritschacher; "Fix sitelink handling in selenium tests" [mediawiki/extensions/Wikibase] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/70600
[08:55:57] <gerrit-wm_>	 New patchset: Tobias Gritschacher; "Fix sitelink handling in selenium tests" [mediawiki/extensions/Wikibase] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/70600
[09:31:56] <gerrit-wm_>	 New patchset: Daniel Kinzler; "Remove hacks from jenkins entry point." [mediawiki/extensions/Wikibase] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/70164
[09:32:21] <gerrit-wm_>	 New review: Tobias Gritschacher; "(1 comment)" [mediawiki/extensions/DataValues] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/70433
[10:10:45] <gerrit-wm_>	 New patchset: Tobias Gritschacher; "Fix sitelink handling in selenium tests" [mediawiki/extensions/Wikibase] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/70600
[10:11:10] <gerrit-wm_>	 Change merged: Tobias Gritschacher; [mediawiki/extensions/Wikibase] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/70600
[10:13:34] <gerrit-wm_>	 New patchset: Tobias Gritschacher; "Fix sitelink handling in selenium tests" [mediawiki/extensions/Wikibase] (mw1.22-wmf9) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/70604
[10:13:45] <gerrit-wm_>	 Change merged: Tobias Gritschacher; [mediawiki/extensions/Wikibase] (mw1.22-wmf9) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/70604
[10:20:54] <gerrit-wm_>	 New patchset: Daniel Kinzler; "Force some client settings if repo is same wiki." [mediawiki/extensions/Wikibase] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/70163
[10:21:11] <travis-ci>	 [travis-ci] wikimedia/mediawiki-extensions-Wikibase#247 (mw1.22-wmf9 - 2ea52c1 : Tobias Gritschacher): The build passed.
[10:21:11] <travis-ci>	 [travis-ci] Change view : https://github.com/wikimedia/mediawiki-extensions-Wikibase/compare/8d34ee7019ca...2ea52c185c45
[10:21:11] <travis-ci>	 [travis-ci] Build details : http://travis-ci.org/wikimedia/mediawiki-extensions-Wikibase/builds/8458751
[10:21:22] <gerrit-wm_>	 New patchset: Daniel Kinzler; "Remove hacks from jenkins entry point." [mediawiki/extensions/Wikibase] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/70164
[10:30:43] <gerrit-wm_>	 New patchset: Daniel Kinzler; "(bug 49264) Handle BadValue snaks gracefully." [mediawiki/extensions/WikibaseDataModel] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/70443
[10:33:46] <gerrit-wm_>	 New patchset: Daniel Kinzler; "Change client defaults if repo is on same wiki." [mediawiki/extensions/Wikibase] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/70163
[10:39:27] <gerrit-wm_>	 New review: Tobias Gritschacher; "(1 comment)" [mediawiki/extensions/DataValues] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/70433
[10:39:57] <gerrit-wm_>	 New patchset: Daniel Kinzler; "Remove hacks from jenkins entry point." [mediawiki/extensions/Wikibase] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/70164
[10:42:28] <Tobi_WMDE>	 DanielK_WMDE_: some comments on your BadValue changes..
[10:42:43] <gerrit-wm_>	 New patchset: Henning Snater; "Implemented MessageProvider for valueView experts" [mediawiki/extensions/DataValues] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/70611
[10:46:54] <TCN7JM>	 Okay, that geocoords map is awesome.
[13:00:04] <Guest98309>	 anyone has made something to import the releases/productions date of movies?
[13:26:12] <gerrit-wm_>	 New patchset: Henning Snater; "Hotfix for TimeValue expert's mediaWiki dependency" [mediawiki/extensions/DataValues] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/70627
[13:27:13] <gerrit-wm_>	 Change merged: jenkins-bot; [mediawiki/extensions/DataValues] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/70627
[13:29:03] <gerrit-wm_>	 New patchset: Tobias Gritschacher; "Hotfix for TimeValue expert's mediaWiki dependency" [mediawiki/extensions/DataValues] (mw1.22-wmf9) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/70628
[13:29:41] <gerrit-wm_>	 New review: Daniel Kinzler; "(1 comment)" [mediawiki/extensions/Wikibase] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/65648
[13:30:42] <gerrit-wm_>	 Change merged: jenkins-bot; [mediawiki/extensions/DataValues] (mw1.22-wmf9) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/70628
[13:47:13] <gerrit-wm_>	 New patchset: Henning Snater; "Implemented MessageProvider for valueView experts" [mediawiki/extensions/DataValues] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/70611
[13:48:00] <gerrit-wm_>	 New review: Daniel Kinzler; "Ok, so: works, but one small style issue left (see above)." [mediawiki/extensions/Wikibase] (master); V: 1 C: -1;  - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/65648
[14:18:34] <gerrit-wm_>	 New patchset: Tobias Gritschacher; "Make JS repoApi aware of editEntity's "new" parameter" [mediawiki/extensions/Wikibase] (mw1.22-wmf6) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/70635
[14:18:34] <gerrit-wm_>	 New patchset: Tobias Gritschacher; "Fix client's add-link-widget" [mediawiki/extensions/Wikibase] (mw1.22-wmf6) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/70636
[14:18:59] <gerrit-wm_>	 Change merged: Tobias Gritschacher; [mediawiki/extensions/Wikibase] (mw1.22-wmf6) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/70635
[14:19:12] <gerrit-wm_>	 Change merged: Tobias Gritschacher; [mediawiki/extensions/Wikibase] (mw1.22-wmf6) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/70636
[14:20:27] <gerrit-wm_>	 New patchset: Daniel Kinzler; "Make EntityLookup robust against version issues." [mediawiki/extensions/Wikibase] (mw1.22-wmf6) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/70637
[14:35:04] <gerrit-wm_>	 Change merged: Tobias Gritschacher; [mediawiki/extensions/Wikibase] (mw1.22-wmf6) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/70637
[14:43:05] <gerrit-wm_>	 New patchset: Daniel Kinzler; "Support for new ID serialization format" [mediawiki/extensions/Wikibase] (mw1.22-wmf6) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/70640
[14:54:18] <gerrit-wm_>	 Change merged: Tobias Gritschacher; [mediawiki/extensions/Wikibase] (mw1.22-wmf6) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/70640
[15:04:44] <DanielK_WMDE_>	 Tobi_WMDE: the "\n" thing is quite ok there. try print json_decode( '"foo\nbar\n"' );
[15:05:00] <DanielK_WMDE_>	 it's just an encoded line break, and will be ignored in html
[15:39:28] <gerrit-wm_>	 New patchset: Jeroen De Dauw; "Added first serialization code" [mediawiki/extensions/Ask] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/70331
[15:41:01] <gerrit-wm_>	 New review: Hoo man; "(1 comment)" [mediawiki/extensions/Wikibase] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/65648
[15:41:01] <gerrit-wm_>	 New patchset: Hoo man; "Implement Client to Repo move change propagation" [mediawiki/extensions/Wikibase] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/65648
[15:41:23] <gerrit-wm_>	 New review: Hoo man; "Addressed Daniel's comment :)" [mediawiki/extensions/Wikibase] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/65648
[16:10:25] <gerrit-wm_>	 New review: Daniel Kinzler; "This code looks good, but i have a real problem with the "Serializer" in the name. We have been misu..." [mediawiki/extensions/Ask] (master) C: -1;  - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/70331
[16:11:24] <gerrit-wm_>	 New review: Daniel Kinzler; "Please provide unit tests for each parser." [mediawiki/extensions/DataValues] (master) C: -1;  - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/70593
[16:12:28] <gerrit-wm_>	 New review: Daniel Kinzler; "oh wait, never mind." [mediawiki/extensions/DataValues] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/70593
[16:26:42] <MatmaRex>	 hello
[16:26:51] <MatmaRex>	 do you guys have some sort of a bot to scrub empty items?
[16:26:54] <gerrit-wm_>	 New review: Daniel Kinzler; "The refactor itself seems fine. I have several questions about the code itself, though. These could ..." [mediawiki/extensions/DataValues] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/70593
[16:27:18] <MatmaRex>	 since i just generated a bunch, see https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Matma_Rex
[16:27:34] <MatmaRex>	 and it'd be silly to request deletion of every single one seprately
[16:33:13] <MatmaRex>	 legoktm: ^
[16:35:57] <gerrit-wm_>	 New review: Daniel Kinzler; "Minus one for removing SpecialNewProperty." [mediawiki/extensions/Wikibase] (master) C: -1;  - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/67634
[16:40:52] <gerrit-wm_>	 Change merged: jenkins-bot; [mediawiki/extensions/Wikibase] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/65648
[16:43:52] <hoo>	 \o/ woooohoooo :D
[16:45:23] <gerrit-wm_>	 New review: Jeroen De Dauw; "I do not see how there is a mismatch between https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serialization and what th..." [mediawiki/extensions/Ask] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/70331
[16:46:38] <gerrit-wm_>	 New patchset: Jeroen De Dauw; "Added first serialization code" [mediawiki/extensions/Ask] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/70331
[16:47:52] <gerrit-wm_>	 New patchset: Jeroen De Dauw; "Added first serialization code [DO NOT MERGE]" [mediawiki/extensions/Ask] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/70331
[16:48:28] <PinkAmpersand>	 https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_activity.cgi?id=36729 !!!!!!!!!!!!
[16:48:57] * PinkAmpersand  hugs hoo and DanielK_WMDE_

[16:49:05] <hoo>	 :)
[16:49:26] <DanielK_WMDE_>	 \o/
[16:49:44] <PinkAmpersand>	 if i've been getting error messages when i try that "add links" thingy, will i get them here too? :/
[16:49:50] <DanielK_WMDE_>	 hoo: MovePageNotice has no unit tests... :P
[16:50:00] <hoo>	 Yeah, that's critical :P
[16:50:12] <hoo>	 PinkAmpersand: No, the add links thingy... yes
[16:50:20] <DanielK_WMDE_>	 PinkAmpersand: what kind of error messages?
[16:50:30] <PinkAmpersand>	 tells me i'm not logged in even though i am
[16:50:31] <DanielK_WMDE_>	 PinkAmpersand: you need a global account for both...
[16:50:39] <DanielK_WMDE_>	 hm...
[16:50:40] <PinkAmpersand>	 I have a global account :P
[16:50:42] <hoo>	 DanielK_WMDE_: Probably that the wbgetenties normalization stuff I asked you about some time back
[16:50:50] <hoo>	 * that's
[16:51:25] <DanielK_WMDE_>	 PinkAmpersand: if you have a global account and still get errors, it may be some kind of JS issue... the page move stuff works on the server side, so that shouldn't be a püroblem
[16:51:43] <hoo>	 Yes... the problem's with the widget are normalization one's
[16:51:45] <DanielK_WMDE_>	 PinkAmpersand: have you filed a bug report? please do if you havn't yet.
[16:52:02] <hoo>	 PinkAmpersand: Is it the blah is already used by Q1234 thing?
[16:52:21] <PinkAmpersand>	 DanielK_WMDE_: nah, figured someone else had already filed one. i'll do it in a sec.
[16:52:22] <DanielK_WMDE_>	 hoo: normalization of what? PinkAmpersand was talking about "not logged in" errors... 
[16:52:30] <hoo>	 oh, these :/
[16:52:41] <DanielK_WMDE_>	 PinkAmpersand: maybe someone has, but i havn't seen such a bug yet
[16:53:02] <DanielK_WMDE_>	 hoo: normalization issues can happen, but should not happen often... 
[16:53:03] <PinkAmpersand>	 ok. stepping out soon, but i'll file when i get a second
[16:53:18] <DanielK_WMDE_>	 but we should be consistent of what is normalized how where...
[16:53:26] <DanielK_WMDE_>	 PinkAmpersand: thanks!
[16:53:36] <hoo>	 DanielK_WMDE_: The widget relies on wbgetenties to normalize page names the user inserts, but wbgetentietis isn't actually normalizing anything
[16:54:03] <DanielK_WMDE_>	 hrrmmm
[16:54:09] <DanielK_WMDE_>	 hoo: do we have a bug for *that*?
[16:54:27] <hoo>	 DanielK_WMDE_: uh, I think we got a bug about the API module
[16:54:50] <hoo>	 but not about the widget one, I guess (talked to aude about that, maybe she created one)
[16:54:50] <gerrit-wm_>	 New patchset: Liangent; "New LanguageWrapper class" [mediawiki/extensions/Wikibase] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/67453
[16:55:03] <DanielK_WMDE_>	 that's no good - the API module shouldn't normalize the titles imho. it's find to expect the caller to do that
[16:55:11] <DanielK_WMDE_>	 especially since normalization is quite expensive
[16:55:17] <DanielK_WMDE_>	 so the widget thingy should do that
[16:55:27] <DanielK_WMDE_>	 hoo: would you file a bug for that?
[16:56:08] <hoo>	 I can ... and I can fix it... the question was mostly where to perform the normalization (doing it in the widget is a bit ugly, as that one already is way to complex IMO)
[16:56:18] <hoo>	 Will refactor that some time...
[16:56:34] <DanielK_WMDE_>	 hoo: the widget should normalize using the local api
[16:56:48] <hoo>	 Yes, that's what I'm going to let it do
[16:56:55] <DanielK_WMDE_>	 otherwise, you force the repo to call back to the local api for normalization. that sucks.
[16:57:34] <hoo>	 DanielK_WMDE_: That's not true... it's not the local API taht the widget needs to call, but the API of the other client
[16:58:10] <hoo>	 (remember: The widget links two pages: The one the user is on, on the client and a user given one)
[16:58:22] <hoo>	 And the user given one of course is on another Wikipedia
[16:58:48] <hoo>	 We don't yet really have an abstraction for reaching out to the APIs of these
[17:00:10] <DanielK_WMDE_>	 oh yea, you are right
[17:01:00] <DanielK_WMDE_>	 you may not even know the URL of that client's API :/
[17:01:43] <hoo>	 I have that one... the RL SitesModule provides is
[17:01:44] <hoo>	 * it
[17:02:22] <hoo>	 but still, I can't use our wb.RepoApi or even mw.Api on it, as those are only working with the local wiki (or in case of wb.RepoApi only the repo)
[17:03:13] <DanielK_WMDE_>	 well, i suppose wbgetentities could support *optional* normalization
[17:03:22] <DanielK_WMDE_>	 doing it per default would be too expensive
[17:03:31] <DanielK_WMDE_>	 and it should probably refuse to do it if more than one title is given
[17:03:43] <DanielK_WMDE_>	 but as an option, it would be ok.
[17:04:39] <hoo>	 That sounds sane, yes
[17:07:00] <hoo>	 DanielK_WMDE_: https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/70115 did the foundation yet mention this problem in the hangouts?
[17:09:18] <DanielK_WMDE_>	 hoo: not that i'm aware. 
[17:09:44] <DanielK_WMDE_>	 hoo: can you confirm that the modules are only regiustered, not loaded? even if RL debugging is disabled?
[17:10:54] <hoo>	 I'm not sure what exactly you mean, but all the ones I moved to repo aren't needed in client and aren't ever loaded there
[17:11:14] <hoo>	 you can see this with mw.loader.getState( 'moduleName' );
[17:14:05] <hoo>	 DanielK_WMDE_: The problem is, that the ResourceLoader is sending the names of all available modules with all page views
[17:14:52] <Krinkle>	 the startup module ( <script load.php?modules=startup>)
[17:15:05] <Krinkle>	 https://gist.github.com/Krinkle/5827511#file-gistfile2-txt
[17:17:41] <DanielK_WMDE_>	 hoo: does it only send the names, but the full module code too?
[17:17:50] <DanielK_WMDE_>	 Krinkle: ---^  ??
[17:18:05] <Krinkle>	 No, of course not.
[17:18:13] <DanielK_WMDE_>	 ok then
[17:18:16] <DanielK_WMDE_>	 it's not *that* bad
[17:18:24] <Krinkle>	 https://en.wikipedia.org/w/load.php?modules=startup&only=scripts
[17:18:27] <hoo>	 I thought so as well
[17:18:38] <Krinkle>	 But it is a lot of data. not just names (timestamps, list of dependencies, cache group)
[17:18:59] <DanielK_WMDE_>	 Krinkle: but it gets cached on the client, right?
[17:19:00] <Krinkle>	 It adds up when, like wiki data, stuff is separated like crazy. one class per file is fine, but this looks almost like one file per module.
[17:19:20] <Krinkle>	 What is and isn't cached doesn't matter.
[17:19:28] <Krinkle>	 It is a lot of data and it should not be registered on client wikis
[17:19:45] <hoo>	 Krinkle: That's not true, but we partly did that to not send to much actual code per request... one module => one task
[17:19:45] <Krinkle>	 also the startup module must by design only be cached for 5 minutes
[17:19:54] <DanielK_WMDE_>	 Krinkle: we'll need it on the client once (if) we implement "in site" editing
[17:20:10] <DanielK_WMDE_>	 that's the reason these modules got registered on the client
[17:20:24] <DanielK_WMDE_>	 we though that on site editing would be quite important, but at the moment, it doesn't seem that way
[17:20:30] <DanielK_WMDE_>	 but i suppose we'll need it at some point
[17:20:42] <Krinkle>	 If and when that happens you should probably properly separate the dependency trees and not "just" make it depend on something main that is also used on the repo wikis as that'll make it easy to make mistakes and add stuff to one that you don't need on the other.
[17:20:57] <hoo>	 DanielK_WMDE_: Well... we could move them bug then... right now they don't even really work on the client as most of the messages they need are in the repo lib
[17:21:16] <DanielK_WMDE_>	 Krinkle: but it's the same widgets being used on both sites, they'll have the same depe4ndencies...
[17:21:28] <DanielK_WMDE_>	 well, we'll deal with that when we need it
[17:21:32] <Krinkle>	 anyhow, I'm merely pointing out that the startup module increased from 10kb a few months ago to almost 60kb (for all wikis, per wiki) now and wikidata contributes a large part to that.
[17:21:47] <Krinkle>	 Nothing crashed, just preventive and maintenance. Keep on going :)
[17:21:53] <DanielK_WMDE_>	 :P
[17:22:24] <Krinkle>	 50kb is a lot of data to be loaded before a single line of code that matters has even be delivered. So that is a problem in the long run.
[17:22:52] <hoo>	 Krinkle: How much of that are these 30 modules (approx.)?
[17:23:12] <Krinkle>	 don't know, feel free to calculate it
[17:23:17] <DanielK_WMDE_>	 Krinkle: while i have your attention... can we talk about https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/69471/ for a minute?
[17:23:44] <Krinkle>	 Sure, I replied already, but if you prefer to reply here, that's fine
[17:23:50] <hoo>	 I think those are about 6% of the total module count, but I'm not sure about data count (we might have more dependencies than other extensions...)
[17:24:05] <DanielK_WMDE_>	 Krinkle: here is quicker :)
[17:24:17] <DanielK_WMDE_>	 basically, we are argueing a very fine point here, and it's not a huge difference. In your last example, you use 'thing' => $registry->getThing() to pass that stuff to the constructor.
[17:24:27] <DanielK_WMDE_>	 that works if that stuff is already accessible *before* Setup.php runs
[17:24:35] <DanielK_WMDE_>	 in our use case, it isn't
[17:24:49] <DanielK_WMDE_>	 so, our workaround is to pass the callback to the constructor, and call it inside the constructor
[17:24:53] <gerrit-wm_>	 New patchset: Liangent; "New LanguageWrapper class" [mediawiki/extensions/Wikibase] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/67453
[17:25:00] <DanielK_WMDE_>	 works, but it's ugly.
[17:25:06] <Krinkle>	 hoo: also for what its worth, even if relatively speaking it is small, in absolute amounts registering almost a 100 modules is a lot, and generally it is best not to register stuff not related to a wiki. So consider it a good practice that in indirect ways increased performance.
[17:25:20] <DanielK_WMDE_>	 it's essentially what would happen with the "callback" key, but allowing that directly is cleaner.
[17:25:37] <Krinkle>	 DanielK_WMDE_: IF you need it after Setup.php you're screwed anyway because it is impossible to register modules after that point
[17:25:47] <Krinkle>	 at least not allowed / not supported because you can't share state between load.php and index.php
[17:25:51] <Krinkle>	 (and shouldn't)
[17:25:58] <DanielK_WMDE_>	 it basically allows us to use the "builder" pattern for instantiation, which is an established practice for this situation, i believe
[17:26:46] <Krinkle>	 If you need a callback to compute some values you could use the before-setup hook (after LocalSettings, before end of setup, e.g. wgExtensionFunctions)
[17:26:55] <DanielK_WMDE_>	 Krinkle: i'm screwed how? this is just about the initialization order. the idea is to allow other extensions to register stuff that should go into the module
[17:26:57] <Krinkle>	 That pattern is fine.
[17:27:28] <DanielK_WMDE_>	 basically: all modules register stuff. when the module is needed, that registered stuff gets compiled into the module's output
[17:27:45] <DanielK_WMDE_>	 to avoid issues with the initialization order, a callback is useful
[17:27:54] <DanielK_WMDE_>	 that's essentially our use case
[17:28:08] <Krinkle>	 what issues with initialization order? How does it help to use a callback in the registry instead of a setup callback?
[17:28:25] <Krinkle>	 You can't rely on state that differs between requests
[17:28:36] <DanielK_WMDE_>	 it doesn't.
[17:28:40] <DanielK_WMDE_>	 let me find the commit...
[17:29:05] <Krinkle>	 So what is available at point X that isn't available from the setup hook and how do you get access to it from point X?
[17:29:43] <Krinkle>	 meeting, brb in 15 min
[17:31:09] <DanielK_WMDE_>	 Krinkle|detached: the setup hook gets us back into global state. we want to avoid global state. it would work as a workaround, just like passing the callback to the constructor works
[17:31:19] <DanielK_WMDE_>	 but it's nother nice nor clean nor obvious. it's a nasty hack.
[17:31:51] <DanielK_WMDE_>	 here's our current workaround: https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/69481/2/DataTypes/includes/modules/DataTypesModule.php
[17:34:32] <DanielK_WMDE_>	 not that the actual use for this is in a different extension:
[17:34:33] <DanielK_WMDE_>	 https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/69483/2/lib/resources/Resources.php
[17:35:35] <DanielK_WMDE_>	 the Resources file is evaulated in the extension's main file like this:
[17:35:36] <DanielK_WMDE_>	 $wgResourceModules = array_merge( $wgResourceModules, include( __DIR__ . "/resources/Resources.php" ) );
[17:36:27] <DanielK_WMDE_>	 LibRegistry::newInstance() in the callback is the nasty global state we want to isolate out as far as possible.
[17:37:07] <DanielK_WMDE_>	 initializing the module via a callback lets us do that, and even allows for "just in time" initialization of the required object.
[18:54:03] <hoo>	 DanielK_WMDE_: Still around?
[20:04:09] <linnea_>	 is there property for lyricist in wikidata? I didnt find one
[20:09:17] <JohnLewis>	 Hi linnea_. At the moment I do not believe Wikidata has a property for lyricists.
[20:10:09] <linnea_>	 JohnLewis: ok :) does songwriter in english include lyricist or is it just composer?
[20:11:15] <JohnLewis>	 I am not fully sure but to my knowledge it is just composer though I may be wrong.
[20:11:32] <linnea_>	 ok thanks :)
[20:11:42] <JohnLewis>	 Welcome.
[20:49:52] <gerrit-wm_>	 New review: Jeroen De Dauw; "(1 comment)" [mediawiki/extensions/Wikibase] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/70163
[21:15:28] <Amgine>	 Songwriting includes both or either of the roles lyricist & composer in North American common English, ime
[21:25:23] <gerrit-wm_>	 New patchset: Jeroen De Dauw; "Added first serialization code [DO NOT MERGE]" [mediawiki/extensions/Ask] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/70331
[22:16:44] <gerrit-wm_>	 New patchset: Jeroen De Dauw; "Added first serialization code [DO NOT MERGE]" [mediawiki/extensions/Ask] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/70331
[22:37:57] <gerrit-wm_>	 New patchset: Jeroen De Dauw; "Added first serialization code [DO NOT MERGE]" [mediawiki/extensions/Ask] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/70331
[22:39:40] <gerrit-wm_>	 New patchset: Jeroen De Dauw; "Moved out serialization code from value objects to dedicated service objects." [mediawiki/extensions/Ask] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/70331
[22:48:58] <legoktm>	 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Help_desk#Interlanguage_links
[22:49:05] <legoktm>	 someone want to help resolve that conflict?
[22:49:19] * legoktm  jabs…. Jasper_Deng!

[22:50:08] * Jasper_Deng  wonders what he has to do with this