[09:20:56] So, um... no one knows what's the difference between "invoke" and "call"? :) [09:21:08] I'd really love to know that, so that the translation would be precise. [09:34:00] I don’t know of any difference but I could imagine there is one [09:34:29] like argument vs. parameter or function vs. method, which I also used to think were equivalent and then I learned what the differences are [09:35:03] (though I’m not sure if anyone I talk to has the same understanding of those differences… which is why it would be good to hear from someone who does know about a difference between call and invoke ^^) [10:35:12] So some people say that e.g. in JavaScript you can call (directly with round brackets) or invoke by an invocation function like… apply() or (ironically) .call() (see https://stackoverflow.com/questions/50884893/calling-vs-invoking-a-function) [10:35:13] However, this seems to be language specific (as it is with JavaScripts (non-) difference between method and function) [10:35:15] So I guess the best solution is to use any one term consistently and, in the unlikely case there turns out to be a relevant difference that consistently needs to be marked by a word, to then change to the respective better word in the respective cases. [10:36:43] (In practice, the words are used so often as synonyms that I would not trust that word to clarify the difference anyway, e.g. in javascript I would just say "indirectly called via .apply()" instead of "invoked" [11:18:28] It's fine if these are synonyms, and for convenience, sometimes one is used in English text and sometimes the other. It should just be documented in the Glossary: "Invoke : synonym of Call". [14:33:38] Argh, apologies, I honestly thought I had answered that one. Yes, it's a synonym here in order to avoid "call a call". But as said, we're revisiting terminology soon. Thanks for asking! [14:34:04] Thanks! [14:34:22] Till now the glossary has been immensely helpful. [14:34:31] It's OK to update it. [16:22:54] Now that I know what "Invoke" means exactly, I have another question about a recently added message: [16:23:00] "Invoke Z802 (If) with false predicate" [16:23:41] I guess that "If" is a name of a function. Can I translate it? [16:24:11] Also, where does the ID Z802 come from? Is it hard-coded in the extension? Or used on some example wiki? [16:26:31] it seems to be included with the extension https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/plugins/gitiles/mediawiki/extensions/WikiLambda/+/refs/heads/master/data/Z802.json [16:26:50] (also at https://notwikilambda.toolforge.org/wiki/ZObject:Z802) [16:37:36] @amire80 It's on the list of https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Abstract_Wikipedia/Reserved_ZIDs [16:38:57] Thanks, @quidditywiki , @lucaswerkmeister . A couple of follow-up questions: [16:39:18] 1. The JSON and the wiki page say if, but the messages says If. Perhaps the message should say if, too? [16:39:51] 2. Can it be translated? The JSON appears to have only an English name. [16:48:46] Also, what is predicate exactly? In "Invoke Z802 (If) with false predicate". I know what a predicate is in linguistics, but I'm not sure it's the same thing. [16:50:30] I think it’s one of the three parts of an “if” function call: if predicate then something else other [16:50:40] the other two parts have names too but I can’t remember them :D [16:50:44] consequent and alternative, I think? [16:51:49] hm, Z802 (both in the source code and on Not Wikilambda) calls that part the condition instead… not sure if predicate = condition in that case [16:51:53] maybe I got it wrong [16:52:25] but it would make sense with “false” in that sentence [17:59:44] I think "predicate" just means "value". I.e. calling the function Z802 with the value Z42/false [18:00:19] It's describing the example call [21:38:27] Our weekly newsletter: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Abstract_Wikipedia/Updates/2021-05-06 [21:38:52] This time focused on how Abstract Wikipedia and the lexicographic data in Wikidata may be connected in the future