[09:09:32] mysql> select count(*) as toolbar_count from user_properties where up_property='usebetatoolbar' and up_value=1\G select count(*) as vector_count from user_properties where up_property='skin' and up_value='vector'\G [09:09:37] *************************** 1. row *************************** [09:09:39] toolbar_count: 338 [09:09:42] 1 row in set (0.00 sec) [09:09:44] *************************** 1. row *************************** [09:09:47] vector_count: 610 [09:09:49] you guys need to publicise the data more :) [09:09:51] 1 row in set (7.28 sec) [09:10:11] What do you mean by publicise? [09:10:18] s/data/toolbar/ [09:10:23] Right [09:10:27] Everybody knows about vector, nobody's heard about the toolbar [09:10:34] and IMO it's the biggest change [09:10:35] I'll pass these numbers to Naoko, she asked for them [09:10:45] "1 row in set (7.28 sec)" --> that's what I was afraid of [09:11:58] Why? [09:12:02] It's just because it's stale data [09:12:06] and it's only one thread [09:12:16] I've run 10-minute queries on inactive slaves on the live site [09:12:21] Right [09:12:41] If I run it again, this happens [09:12:41] 1 row in set (0.45 sec) [09:12:45] Hmm [09:14:10] Here's a thought, why don't you add a message above the old toolbar that says "Try turning on the new toolbar in your preferences"? [09:14:46] We already have plans to advertise this stuff more [09:14:57] With an integrated opt-in interface for both Vector and the toolbar at once [09:15:50] When we deploy that we'll also deploy an extension that tracks opt-ins and -outs more closely in a dedicated table [16:03:41] good morning folks [16:03:47] Morning Naoko [16:03:49] hi nkomura [16:03:51] RoanKattouw: pounce! [16:03:55] sorry i didn't notice your greetings yesterday [16:04:02] No problem [16:04:08] Sorry I didn't respond to your e-mail fast enough [16:04:17] it was meeting day yesterday [16:04:19] I was kinda tired by then :) [16:04:28] np [16:04:36] awwww [16:05:06] RoanKattouw: are you adjusted back to european time? [16:05:08] nkomura: Could you decide on https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19705#c2 as quickly as possible? [16:05:10] Yeah [16:05:22] Went to sleep at 9 PM, woke up at 4 AM (oops) [16:05:33] Handled it better than I thought I would [16:05:34] *nkomura looks [16:06:53] Scroll up for more context if you need to [16:07:06] RoanKattouw: Parul and I thought "look" is misleading, as our focus for the solution is interaction [16:07:09] not the looks [16:07:23] so we are leaning towards "Try Beta!" [16:08:18] as the opt-in will be configured in a way to point the trigger to reflect the most current version of the usability work [16:08:34] i.e., babaco will replace acai for example [16:08:45] Yeah [16:09:17] so we will define what the beta means in the landing page [16:10:39] i thought we are holding off from pushing the text to localization [16:10:44] they are already pushed? [16:10:59] Yes [16:11:04] I told Siebrand the messages were unstable [16:11:10] But he didn't seem to care [16:11:17] oh... [16:11:30] See also comment #7 on that bug [16:12:17] General question: Do u work more from Bugzilla or the Usability talk page? [16:12:35] Duduman: hello [16:12:38] Bugzilla should be used for technical issues [16:12:47] hi nkomura [16:12:52] Duduman: we use both [16:13:22] we prefer to collect feedback and discuss future design in the usability talk page [16:13:35] I wanted to talk to the Usability team about many things actually, not new things just about the reports on the talk page of the Usability page [16:13:47] It would be best if more subpages were there [16:14:09] ie.: one for the edibox and one for the Vector design [16:14:11] do you have specific topics in mind? [16:14:25] ^ [16:14:38] and also mention this at the top of the talk page [16:14:51] you are welcome to create sub pages [16:15:02] i think the write restriction is only on the main page [16:15:10] I'd be happy to [16:15:12] please feel free to expand the page [16:15:27] just needed confirmation that this wouldn't be bad or sth [16:15:46] no, not at all [16:15:54] the feedback page is getting too long anyway [16:16:06] we may move pages around later, but feel free to get started [16:16:12] and many have no comments [16:16:24] I'll sum up the comments and create feedbacks [16:16:41] i haven't checked back for the last two days ;) [16:16:51] Duduman: If you create these subpages, we'd appreciate it if you also moved topic from the main talk page into the relevant subpages [16:17:03] Takes some work and categorization, which is probably why we haven't done it [16:17:03] Will do [16:17:10] np [16:17:36] Will report back when its done [16:17:47] thank you! [16:18:06] brb [16:19:12] nkomura: A decision on the naming should be made soonish, so I can update the messages, push them to TW and wait for the translations [16:20:51] yeah [16:21:02] ? [16:21:27] Duduman: we are talking about the localization stuff [16:21:41] What needs localizing ? [16:21:49] lots of stuff [16:21:56] :) [16:22:08] we are talking about MW translation [16:22:29] all the interface will be available in 260+ languages [16:24:10] RoanKattouw: so "A??ai Beta" is only used for the link to the landing page, right? [16:24:25] No, lots of places, lemme get a link [16:24:25] or any other locations too? [16:24:58] http://svn.wikimedia.org/viewvc/mediawiki/trunk/extensions/UsabilityInitiative/OptIn/OptIn.i18n.php?revision=53240&view=markup [16:25:10] Format is crude but you can probably tell what's what [16:25:35] Message docs for translators are below the English section [16:25:38] Morning brion [16:25:59] brion: Did you get my e-mail about that list of 32 revisions we'd like to have reviewed and synced? [16:26:01] hi brion [16:26:25] RoanKattouw: today or in the past? [16:26:36] Last Friday I think [16:26:47] Or Saturday [16:26:58] Either way, it was after you left for Boston [16:27:29] howdy nkomura [16:27:44] hi [16:27:59] Add media wizard is under your scope right? [16:28:17] I sent it to usability@wikimedia.org, and I think you get those too [16:28:19] RoanKattouw: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:Code/MediaWiki/tag/acaifix ? [16:28:21] brion: how's stillman? the temperature is boiling here at the satellite office [16:28:24] Duduman: No, mdale's [16:28:27] brion: Yes, that's the one [16:28:29] not too bad here so far [16:28:34] i've got my desktop fan on though ;) [16:28:34] hmm [16:28:41] good idea [16:28:50] There should be an increment of $wgStyleVersion in there IIRC, if not you might have to patch that in manually for now [16:28:58] Duduman: media uploading is in the radar [16:29:15] cause it's not working for me somehow [16:29:24] I tracked it since its start [16:29:28] was working then [16:29:57] RoanKattouw: there are repeated strings in the link you sent me [16:30:19] does TW treat the same sentences or phrases separately? [16:30:19] Yeah [16:30:24] Yes [16:30:30] argh.. [16:30:33] poor translators [16:30:41] They're used in different places, and when I wrote the code I didn't know that they would end up having the same text [16:31:06] But at least this way we don't cause a mess for ourselves if/when we decide to use different wording anyway [16:31:23] so please change "A??ai Beta" to "Beta" [16:31:32] i will comment too [16:31:34] On top of that, non-English languages might actually want to translate the two differently [16:32:14] We've got Leave Acai Beta as a link caption, button caption (granted, those will pretty much always be the same) and page title now [16:32:20] OK, will do [16:32:41] nkomura: How do I handle sentences like "Did you experience ... when using Acai Beta?" ? [16:35:32] RoanKattouw: we will rename the link caption as well [16:35:49] Yes [16:36:07] Wow this is hard, You have http://usability.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Prototype and http://usability.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Main_Page which both have bug reports [16:36:08] I would change it to "Did you experience ... when using Beta?" ? [16:36:16] I've done a search-and-replace of Acai Beta to Beta for now, but that creates some weird sentences as mentioned above [16:36:45] RoanKattouw: lemme do the scan myself too [16:36:49] OK [16:36:57] I'm off having dinner, back in 30 mins or so [16:37:05] (and good morning TrevorParscal :) )' [16:37:15] hi [16:37:23] hi trevor [16:37:28] :) [16:37:41] Danny_B: how was your vacation [16:37:42] ? [16:37:58] trevor said he had great progress on rtl last night ;) [16:38:24] Duduman: please focus on http://usability.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Prototype for now [16:38:49] they capture feedback and bugs for staged and released features on july 1st [16:38:53] BTW, There is a big problem with rtl on Commons if someone knows how to edit that [16:38:58] in preferences [16:39:02] the release nick name is acai [16:39:29] Duduman: can you provide a screenshot [16:39:32] Duduman: commons' content language is english [16:39:40] so it does not currently support RTL page layout [16:39:48] change it to arabic and you'll see what I mean [16:40:02] Duduman: page layout is based on site content language, not UI language [16:40:17] slow down, let me explain [16:40:27] while we might consider a change to that in the future, it's not gonna change right now [16:41:06] it looks like somebody's put in a local JS hack to try switching things, which is almost certainly incomplete and buggy [16:41:30] Just to clear things: If I change Language to Arabic there http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:Preferences the preferences buttons are all over the place [16:42:22] yes, that will change once I scap the latest changes to the prototypes [16:42:26] *TrevorRTLNinja gets to work [16:42:27] :) [16:42:37] ;) [16:43:25] Slomox wanted to help but didn't know where the CSS is http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Village_pump#Aligning_rtl_langugaes_in_Preferences [16:43:38] anyway [16:43:42] that for later [16:43:51] *Duduman gets to work on organizing the comments [16:51:25] Ok, after assessing the comments it seems that most are for the Vector skin itself [16:52:00] I'll create a page about the edit box and move there anything that relates to it [16:52:08] sth. like opinion icons [16:52:42] Duduman: sounds good [16:53:32] Who is responsible for Opinion Icons ? [16:57:49] nvm [17:01:18] Duduman: Parul and Hannes started Opinion Icons page [17:01:33] they are the interface/interaction designers for the usability team [17:01:45] I'll add some things to the discussion page over there [17:04:27] nkomura, sorry could u delete this page? http://usability.wikimedia.org/wiki/Toolbar [17:04:37] I'll create it at Editbox instead [17:06:27] are you sure? [17:06:33] http://usability.wikimedia.org/wiki/Editbox [17:06:38] don't know [17:06:46] Editbox is broader [17:07:30] i kinda like having a topic for toolbar [17:07:42] ok [17:07:53] Most comments are about the toolbar anyway [17:08:15] http://usability.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Opinion_Icons has some comments now too [17:08:33] Should I delete the ones that are mirrors on the Prototype talk page [17:09:14] i think tool page can have a reference to the icon page as it is the subset of the toolbar discussion [17:09:40] and should the discussion be moved to the discussion? [17:09:41] going to take care of a few things, so i will be away a bit [17:09:55] ok [17:09:56] later [18:00:43] *RoanKattouw_away cheers on TrevorRTLNinja [18:01:25] "RTLNinja" You care a lot about RTL hee [18:03:49] TrevorParscal: Did you tag that latest rev of yours with "acaifix"? [18:03:54] http://usability.wikimedia.org/wiki/Releases/Acai/Compatibility_Matrix [18:04:07] um... no [18:04:17] latest revs, oops [18:04:39] Anyway, one of them mentioned fixing brokenness in an earlier rev, so that one should probably be tagged [18:05:47] yeah [18:06:12] where do I tag it? [18:08:18] Special:Code/MediaWiki/12345 on mediawiki.org [18:08:40] yeah, but how do I tag it? [18:08:49] perhaps I don't have sufficient rights? [18:09:29] I'll give you to them [18:09:33] What's your username? [18:09:55] nm got it [18:10:04] Reload, you should have rights now [18:11:23] nkomura_away: Post-lunch conference Skype about opt-in survey (as opposed to opt-out survey)? [18:18:19] RoanKattouw: i can talk in 30-45 minutes [18:18:36] Isn't that right about lunchtime? [18:18:39] But works for me [18:19:22] TrevorParscal: You should have sufficient rights now [18:19:54] RoanKattouw: yeah, but i figured post-lunch will be too late for you [18:20:05] Nah, that's 10 pm for me [18:20:27] RoanKattouw: trevor will be available in a few to discuss opt-in-out revisions with you [18:20:31] OK [18:20:32] hi roan! [18:20:37] Hi parutron [18:20:42] how was the rest of your time in SF? [18:20:48] It was great [18:20:49] i heard about the adventures friday night [18:20:54] sounds fantastic. [18:21:05] and surfing on saturday ;) [18:21:24] Yeah, I actually surfed in the Pacific Ocean [18:21:30] oh yes! like a true member of this usability team!!!!!! [18:21:32] how did you like it? [18:21:36] it was your first time!? [18:22:11] It was good, until a wave hit Trevor from behind and drove his board into my leg while I was still half-choking from the previous wave taking me under [18:22:37] oh no! tee hee. [18:22:43] Makes you get inventive, though, like finding out how to run reasonably fast downhill while limping ) [18:32:34] RoanKattouw: sorry about that [18:32:46] No problem [18:33:17] so, we need to change something about the opt in process [18:33:26] On the phone, sec [18:33:42] OK back [18:34:43] basically, we want to delay the "you must login to do this" until after they click "let's do it!" - because we want to give them the info on what they are opting into as early as possible [18:34:56] it will be more motivating for them to go through the login/signup process as well [18:35:13] Parul is sending you an image of the whiteboard in a sec [18:35:20] I added the comments found on http://usability.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Prototype regarding the Toolbar to http://usability.wikimedia.org/wiki/Toolbar [18:35:40] Should I delete them from http://usability.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Prototype [18:35:44] TrevorParscal: Yes, totally forgot about that [18:36:29] let's start with that today [18:36:36] Yes [18:37:08] shouldn't be too hard, but... I'm going easy on you since I feel bad for assaulting you with a surfboard [18:37:10] ha ha [18:37:19] heh [18:37:27] Duduman: sure [18:37:34] thanks for helping us clean things up! [18:37:37] ok [18:37:39] np [18:37:53] I just hope someone could comment on the ones about the toolbar [18:38:15] I also moved some about the icons to http://usability.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Opinion_Icons [18:41:15] Love your usage of the hard disk icon :) [18:41:25] I'll work on moving down the login first [18:42:25] :) [18:48:03] http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:Code/MediaWiki/tag/acaifix is growing meanwhile [18:48:05] TrevorParscal: rockin [18:52:08] TrevorParscal: When an anon clicks the green button, exactly what do we want to happen? [18:52:26] Do we want Green button -> "You have to log in" page -> Login form -> Success page ? [18:52:30] yes [18:52:31] but [18:52:36] Or do we want to eliminate the "You have to log in" thing as well [18:52:36] the subtext of the green button [18:52:42] Should change? [18:52:43] should tell the user that's gonna happen [18:52:47] Yeah [18:52:54] like, login and try beta [18:52:58] Yay, another new message [18:53:26] RoanKattouw TrevorParscal: minor nit; right now after opting init says i can opt out by clicking the "leave acai beta" link .... which isn't yet shown at top of screen until the next page hit :) [18:53:52] Hmm [18:53:56] Seems user tools are generated too early [18:53:57] yeah.... [18:54:04] no [18:54:13] we specifically don't show the link when you are at the page [18:54:36] we could just show the link with a url without the redirect [18:54:39] that would solve it [18:54:43] you want to do that RoanKattouw ? [18:54:54] What, show that link? [18:55:05] Gonna be tricky if usertools are generated before the actual special page is [18:55:15] um... [18:55:33] class OptInHooks [18:55:40] public static function personalUrls [18:55:50] Right now we don't show that link at all when we're at Special:UsabilityInitiativeOptIn [18:55:55] *RoanKattouw curses Siebrand for that name again [18:56:02] we check if we are AT that page [18:56:08] so, instead, let's show the link [18:56:28] but change it to Special:UsabilityInitiativeOptIn instead of Special:UsabilityInitiativeOptIn/WhereIWasBefore in that case [18:56:36] that way we don't get the infinite loop thing [18:56:55] Special:UsabilityInitiativeOptIn/Main_Page/Special:UsabilityInitiativeOptIn/Main_Page/Special:UsabilityInitiativeOptIn/Main_Page/ ... etc [18:57:31] TrevorParscal: veronique's organizing lunch @ cafe centro outside, it's a nice day [18:57:36] leaving now, wanna come? [18:58:12] sure [18:58:14] see you soon [19:14:44] Dammit my connection was lost [19:15:10] RoanKattouw> That might or might not show the right one [19:15:12] It might show "Try Acai Beta" on the "You have opted in" page, depending on order of execution [19:15:14] I'll try to see exactly which one happens later [19:15:15] Grr returnto= only accepts wiki pages [19:15:17] TrevorParscal: This is getting ugly. I need a way to pass two pieces of information, the fact that we want to opt in directly and the title to go back to [19:15:19] Unfortunately, something like [[Special:UsabilityInitiativeOptIn/Page/in]] won't fly because [[Page/in]] could legitimately be a title [19:15:21] And I can't use URL parameters like I previously did [19:22:09] RoanKattouw: Trevor stepped out for lunch [19:29:24] Yeah I know [19:29:33] My connection died and I missed some stuff [19:29:43] Thank God for logs [19:39:24] hmm [19:39:58] Infinite redirect link thingy done [19:47:06] brion: Do you think review&deployment of our acaifix-marked revs can/will happen soonish? [19:50:02] RoanKattouw: today unless problems [19:50:13] Oh that'd be awesome [19:50:14] as i already mentioned, i'm finishing up our deployment [19:50:25] until the deployment is confirmed working nothing's being *added* to it [19:50:28] Oh right you were doing the branch thing earlier today [19:50:49] Be warned that it's grown to nearly 40 revs now [19:51:52] be warned that adding more stuff means it's less likely to happen in a timely fashion [19:51:59] I know [19:52:06] They're small revs though [19:55:51] TrevorParscal: Got the link on top and the different subtexts for anon/loggedin on the green button working now [19:56:12] Still thinking about how to cram two things into one subpage parameter without ambiguity [19:56:22] RoanKattouw is now known as OptInNinja [19:57:03] Special:PageName/Action/ReturnTo [19:57:17] [[Action/Returnto]] could exist [19:57:21] perhaps? [19:57:34] yeah [19:57:42] so, what's with not using url params then? [19:57:54] Userlogin uses "Return to [[$1]]" [19:58:10] So whatever I put in returnto= must be a valid title [19:59:12] I also expect that this stuff could fail for titles approaching 255 chars because with Special:UsabilityOptIn/ prefixed it might hit that limit [19:59:14] *RoanKattouw tries [20:00:05] also if they are coming from a view history page for instance [20:01:34] Yes, that also doesn't work [20:01:53] But the same thing is true for login [20:03:45] that's lousy [20:08:08] I'll tweak Userlogin to allow for returntoparams= or something [20:10:28] goood idea [20:22:22] BTW, there was a video in the works to help editors learn about editing Wikipedia [20:22:28] *Professional video [20:22:30] http://blog.wikimedia.org/2008/12/18/wikimedia-to-produce-online-video-tutorials/ [20:22:37] don't know if you know this already [20:22:57] They already finished filming in December 18th, 2008 [20:24:40] That's a long time ago [20:25:27] I wonder what's holding them [20:41:38] !class Linker [20:41:38] --elephant-- See http://svn.wikimedia.org/doc/classLinker.html [20:48:36] Hmm [20:49:09] returntoparams is troublesome because someone could potentially use it to override returnto= by providing returntoparams=title=Foo [20:49:40] That is not that bad, but returntoparams=title=Special:Userlogout is bad (there's a reason that returnto=Special:Userlogout is explicitly prevented from working) [22:40:08] RoanKattouw: how's it going? [22:40:30] Writing a long commit summary :) [22:40:47] sweet [22:41:01] I got it all done [22:41:14] The changed workflow now works [22:41:24] And returning to e.g. a history view works correctly [22:41:40] As well as going from login submission straight to the "Welcome to Beta" page [22:43:32] you rock! [22:44:17] Now gonna sync this to prototype so you guys can see it in action [22:45:23] Bleh: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:Code/MediaWiki/52213#c3181 [22:47:11] it's working on my local host :) [22:47:43] RoanKattouw: ha ha... darn that parser and it's flimsy tests! [22:47:46] Synced on prototype [22:48:08] svn up and set $wgVectorUseSimpleSearch = true; [22:48:15] Works fine except that after creating an account you first get a welcome message, and the Return to link is on the *bottom* of that [22:48:15] on you local host at least [22:48:21] just wanted to show you it [22:48:25] Sure [22:48:30] Gonna see if I can make that the top [22:48:36] right on [22:48:48] then we need the general feedback link i guess [22:48:54] Yes, and the form [22:49:01] That's all for tomorrow [22:49:35] for sure [22:49:48] Cool [22:49:54] I see the magnifier icon has been redesigned? [22:50:08] yes [22:50:20] I quite liked the one that was attached to the textbox :) [22:50:25] But I guess this one stands out more [22:50:46] yeah, controlling the textbox size is nearly impossible in all browsers [22:50:51] so I shyed away from that [22:51:24] Oh, yeah, of course [22:51:40] but all the RTL stuff is under control now [22:52:20] Awesome! [22:52:34] Just reading your e-mail now, why didn't you make those screenshots with uselang=de ;) [22:52:43] i could have [22:52:44] sorry [22:52:51] probably would have been more impactful [22:52:52] :) [22:53:09] with simple search [22:53:11] in english [22:53:22]