[16:10:08] hi nkomura [16:10:29] hi werdna [16:10:44] how was your weekend? [16:10:47] Morning [16:11:09] nkomura: not too bad, spent it wandering around London [16:11:17] nkomura: looking forward to Wikimania? [16:14:04] yeah definitely [16:14:19] wondering around london sounds fun [16:14:31] how long will you be staying in london? [16:14:38] RoanKattouw: good morning, roan. [16:15:24] werdna and RoanKattouw: I have a translation push request for the usability extension [16:16:17] That's probably one for werdna, I don't have access [16:16:20] is email or bugzila a good way to file a request [16:16:23] ? [16:16:33] The best way to request this is: [16:16:54] werdna: Could you svn up all extensions/UsabilityInitiative/*/*.i18n.php [16:16:56] :P [16:17:19] :) [16:17:48] And if he starts muttering something about not being able to do it like that without approval, file at Bugzilla :) [16:18:45] i'll send email to andrew and 'cc brion [16:19:10] to keep brion in loop for the updates [16:19:57] CIA-32> catrope * r55191 /trunk/extensions/UsabilityInitiative/ (5 files in 3 dirs): EditToolbar: Improve performance in various ways. While this makes the code a little uglier, this revision cuts toolbar loading time by 82%. [16:20:17] wow [16:20:29] that's amazing optimization [16:28:18] not as amazing as me [16:28:38] nkomura: We've decied we'll be heading back to Sydney early in the New Year [16:29:56] RoanKattouw: it's not updated in wmf-whatever? [16:30:13] werdna: nice [16:30:16] werdna: Good point, I'll do that [16:30:29] nkomura: which leaves the rest of this year to wander europe [16:30:47] i love autumn/winter in europe [16:31:16] Andrew once complained about it being too cold [16:31:29] And he lives all the way down in London where it hardly ever really freezes [16:32:18] :) [16:32:40] So we've drawn up plans for three 2-week-ish holidays, one South from SW France to Morocco, one North from Athens to Vienna via southern Italy and Munich, and one in a semicircle from Moscow to Berlin via St. Petersberg, Helsinki, Stockholm, Copenhagen [16:32:46] (but to be fair, I wouldn't last a day in Australian summer) [16:33:24] :) [16:33:29] *werdna invites RoanKattouw [16:33:41] It's about the same price as going to Sydney [16:33:47] werdna: If you lived in Melbourne I might consider that :) [16:33:47] erm [16:33:51] as going to Buenos Aires. [16:33:57] No way, Melbourne summers are hell [16:34:07] Hrmph [16:34:31] Melbourne gets really hot summers because of the geography [16:34:38] Haven't you ever watched the Australian Open? [16:34:49] Yeah that's why I said that :D [16:35:03] But yeah, I've seen that it was hot there [16:35:09] well Melbourne is usually hotter than Sydney, notwithstanding Latitude. [16:35:14] in Summer, at least. [16:36:40] However, Melbourne's summers are notable for days of extreme heat, with Melbourne holding the Australian capital city extreme temperature record of 46.4??C, set on 7 February 2009 [16:36:53] Argh [16:37:04] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sydney#Climate [16:37:08] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melbourne#Climate [16:37:13] Average is 26C high [16:37:34] An average Sydney day is 14 low, 22 high [16:38:08] um, Average January high in Sydney/Melbourne is 26 [16:38:36] 26 is not bad [16:38:38] where's brion/trevor today? [16:38:54] Both have been posting to wikitech this morning [16:38:55] yeah you'd be fine most days [16:38:59] And Brion's had a short night :) [16:39:43] werdna: When I was in Paris this summer it was like 36 C , which is warm but still very survivable [16:40:16] Two weeks later I was on a North Sea beach in NL, dying of the heat at only 26 C; humidity makes all the difference [16:43:05] ah yes, I found that in Florida [16:43:16] I was wilting at 30C, and wondering why [16:56:26] werdna: Translations merged [17:14:22] RoanKattouw: okay, will update in a sec [17:33:31] *RoanKattouw waves at parutron [17:35:15] hi parutron [17:35:44] parutron: Trevor has come up with a new UI for LiquidThreads, tell me what you think [17:36:11] good morning werdna [17:36:16] hello TrevorParscal [17:36:23] Morning TrevorParscal ; I hope you didn't have any local modifications to jquery.wikiEditor.toolbar.js ? [17:36:28] http://wiki.werdn.us/test/view/Talk:Main_Page [17:36:55] RoanKattouw: no, i'm about to update though [17:37:00] good things hapening there? [17:37:12] Only an 82% performance improvement :D [17:37:17] But it touches stuff all over the file [17:37:33] Any local mods would've been screwed [17:37:48] werdna: right aligning that menu... if you need some advice let me know but - so far this is looking awesome [17:37:51] you == ninja [17:38:02] TrevorParscal: You're more of a ninja with this stuff [17:38:06] that's like a day's work [17:38:24] 6pm-2am Friday, and half of today [17:38:38] dude, discussion will not suck anymore! [17:38:40] I'm loving this [17:38:43] Oh and I finished my mwsuggest.js rewrite, still a bit buggy, but can't work on it now because I left it on my Dad's computer :( [17:38:52] RoanKattouw: dude, 82%! You are awesome! [17:38:59] no worries [17:39:36] TrevorParscal: I'm still thinking about the best way to make that menu appear when you mouse over the comment [17:42:01] are we talking and to place it properly, more importantly [17:42:11] I guess it'd be done the same way as the on-hover menu [17:42:38] speaking of the on-hover menu, I'm thinking I'll need to put it behind a click, not a hover. [17:47:17] RoanKattouw: some of the l10n changes for UsabilityInitiative are removed messages [17:47:34] Does that depend on extension updates that haven't yet occurred? [17:47:41] werdna: Probably. Which message keys? [17:47:48] http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:Code/MediaWiki/55193 [17:48:21] Agh yes [17:48:30] edittoolbar-tool-{i,x}link-* [17:48:54] I'll revert that particular rev in the branch, sec [17:54:56] OK that should take care of it [17:55:27] Reverted all translations since last Wednesday as a side effect [17:55:32] (for the toolbar only) [17:58:34] I'm going to go out in a second [17:58:35] sorry.. [17:58:47] No problem, I'll ask someone else [18:12:51] ok - done with meeting [18:13:43] TrevorParscal: Currently, the link dialog is not aligning the input box labels. Should I wrap them in a table? [18:13:46] werdna: the click vs hover thing, we can play with itn [18:14:09] RoanKattouw: yes [18:14:14] OK [18:14:58] RoanKattouw: i'm getting these emails... lots of them... from root@usability.wikimedia.org [18:15:07] subject Cron root cd / && run-parts --report /etc/cron.hourly [18:15:08] hahaha [18:15:12] Oh, they're going to *you [18:15:18] content /bin/sh: root: not found [18:15:22] I thought that e-mail thing was broken [18:15:24] wha'ts up? [18:15:25] Sorry, I'll disable it rightaway [18:15:26] :) [18:15:29] no worries [18:15:31] thanks man! [18:15:45] I settled for logging to /var/log/l10nupdate.log.gz instead [18:19:40] TrevorParscal: To achieve something like http://usability.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=File:ContentGeneration.pdf&page=5 (top row), do I need an empty row between the first textbox and the "Rows" label? [18:20:08] no [18:20:19] OK [18:20:23] this mockup is using right aligned labels [18:20:39] Ah yes, and with proper padding/margin/whatever... yeah [18:20:49] I'm not totally convinced that that's a good idea... [18:20:59] but lets do it as the mockups are, and tweak from there [18:21:14] Yeah [18:21:41] what you do is (row(column align=right, column align=left, column align=right, column align=left)) [18:21:52] I'm working on that table dialog now, I'll table-ize (tablize?) the link dialog later too [18:21:53] and make each column 25% [18:21:58] Ah OK [18:22:06] right on [18:22:11] so, when tablizing things [18:22:12] Do you need classes on the rows for that or is :even / :odd good enough? [18:22:35] do fieldset(table(...)) [18:22:58] and the Dimensions and Table Border labels you see, those are just fieldset legends [18:23:05] Aye I got that [18:23:15] Link dialog also has a fieldset already [18:23:43] the line arrangment stuff looks a little strange... I'm thinking we need to think about that a bit... [18:23:59] I'm just saying, always in all dialogs use the same structure [18:24:21] fieldset( legend, table, ... ) [18:24:38] then when we do the CSS it will be easy to keep them all looking consistent [18:38:38] RoanKattouw: so, I know I'm typically a stickler for 80char lin breaks [18:39:07] how do you feel about this... we could start using something larger.. like 120 or something... I can be flexible but I'd like to be consistent [18:39:22] Right [18:39:43] Are you referring to the ultra-long html: 'lots of crap', lines? [18:40:20] Also, even 120 is not that much if the first 65 are tabs [18:40:24] *64 [18:40:47] I'm sort of just looking at the code in general [18:40:50] But sure, if you wanna stylize go right ahead, I'll follow suit [18:41:13] Except if I think you're being ridiculous, but breaking lines at 120 chars sounds sane [18:41:34] ha [18:58:03] TrevorParscal: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Optimization_for_jQuery [18:58:19] awesome! [18:58:21] reading up [18:59:07] RoanKattouw: [18:59:28] I'm reformatting some code in the wikiEditor.toolbar.js file right now - is that OK? [18:59:38] Yeah I'm not in there [18:59:50] Just touching EditToolbar.js at the moment [19:02:27] your optimizations are awesome [19:05:00] Some of them are ugly and duplicate code [19:05:08] Like adding the .click() on the special characters [19:05:21] Duplicates code between addToToolbar and that other function that adds the default set [19:05:47] Also I loved the name of buildCharacter() ; rewriting mwsuggest and then this certainly does :) [19:08:22] Hm [19:08:39] I'm kind of in doubt about the whole table border thing, especially the color field [19:09:33] Do we want users to define border-width, border-style and border-color inline [19:09:35] ? [19:09:46] i say no way [19:09:54] hah [19:10:11] Shall I just nuke the entire Border fieldset from the mockup then? [19:10:14] lets keep it simple, and add more stuff as we actually need it [19:10:16] They should be using CSS [19:10:21] totally [19:10:36] styling tables like that is actually sort of depricated [19:10:41] CSS is the only way it should be done [19:11:17] How are lines done then? (Referring to the third fieldset in the mockup) [19:24:41] Heh I'm now in editToolbarConfiguration['advanced'].groups['insert']['table'].action.dialog.buttons['edittoolbar-tool-table-insert'] [19:24:48] That's 80 chars of indentation alone [19:25:17] set your editor to 120 charxs [19:25:19] it's all compressed when sent to the client [19:25:36] but michael dale uses longer than 80 char line breaks [19:25:39] Yeah my editor is fine, that's not a problem [19:25:56] Oh *set* it to 120, yeah I'll do that [19:27:55] my editor has a line you can set... and it draws a line there so you can see where to break [19:28:01] Yeah Kate has that too [19:30:09] Hmph some lines are very hard to break, like this one: [19:30:11] var rows = $j( '#edittoolbar-table-dimensions-rows' ).val(); [19:30:33] With enough indentation that'll run over 120 somewhere in the word dimensions [19:37:00] TrevorParscal: Should we put sample text in the generated table? [20:22:39] Gah [20:22:47] Even Firefox 3.0 doesn't support :nth-child(even) [20:28:59] i'm back [20:29:01] readng backlog [20:29:39] use the same sample text as we have now I think [20:29:57] when in doubt, don't change away from current behavior [20:32:54] Right [20:33:01] I'm just worried it's gonna be a bit big [20:33:16] The example output puts each table cell on its own line, while typically an entire row is put on a line [20:33:24] | Foo || Bar || Baz [20:33:26] vs. [20:33:28] | [20:33:29] Foo [20:33:34] Oops [20:33:36] | Foo [20:33:37] | Bar [20:33:39] | Baz [20:34:02] For a 2x2 table that's not bad, but for larger table that's multiple screenfuls [20:34:45] So I think I'm gonna use one line per row, but keep the "Row r, Cell c" example texts [20:35:00] RoanKattouw: committed the reformatted code - mostly done with a code formatter, but.. some by hand formatting too... [20:35:17] Ah yes [20:35:42] RoanKattouw: yeah, that's a good idea [20:36:37] Hmm which CSS property do I use for right-aligning the text in a ? I'm using div#edittoolbar-table-dialog .label { align:right; } but that doesn't work [20:36:52] *RoanKattouw curses CSS for not having parent selectors [20:37:34] text-align [20:37:36] not align [20:37:45] Ah [21:53:02] *werdna returns [21:53:21] was lured by promises of beer to go out with housemates