[01:10:46] TrevorParscal - hello again! [01:11:04] And hello to everyone else. [16:16:04] TrevorParscal - are you there? Have you found your dog yet? [16:23:44] YaronK: yeah, he found it at the SPCA yesterday [16:24:52] Ah, great. [16:25:23] Now I just need to talk to him about template stuff. [16:25:43] Or anyone else, if anyone's interested in talking about it... [16:50:58] Hello all [17:00:13] mornin Ryan_Lane [17:00:24] or... happy noon to you :) [17:00:27] heh [17:00:29] yeah [17:01:03] brion: so, for the selenium quote, should I send in another, cheaper quote? Or is that one ok? [17:01:28] I kind of quoted that one for growth (I was assuming this is permanent infrastructure) [17:02:05] It could also be used to host the prototype node [17:03:22] I can also do multiple vendor quotes if necessary. I'm not sure if you guys standardize on hardware [17:03:33] nom nom :) [17:03:40] remind me what was the last quote? [17:04:03] sun fire x4270 dual socket, quad core, 32 GB ram [17:04:09] ~$10,000 [17:04:19] 8 hard drives [17:05:27] it is looking like we'll have 8-10 vms. probably more [17:05:37] will likely double in the future [17:07:15] might try quoting up something similar from dell; we've had much better experience with their support than sun's [17:07:29] lol. [17:07:32] have rob poke that; he's got our in with our sales guy :) [17:07:33] you too? [17:07:56] i want to like sun, they make some neat stuff, but MAN their sales and support channels are godawful [17:08:12] and of course god knows whether oracle's going to make that better or worse! [17:08:16] agreed. I'd like to strangle myself every time I deal with their support [17:08:24] their contracting is god awful too [17:08:29] we have tons of sun equipment [17:08:50] i'd have to say, we have way more problems with dell hardware though [17:09:21] whats rob's email? [17:09:30] is he on the usability alias? [17:11:11] grabbing him now [17:11:23] yep [17:11:27] yo RobH [17:11:43] Ryan_Lane is doing some of our fun fun usability contractin' work [17:11:49] and we're gonna get us some testing going :D [17:13:50] So you said VMs in other channel. [17:14:34] Is the idea to get a dell R6x series server with an onboard ESXi onboard? [17:14:43] esx? [17:14:50] http://www.vmware.com/products/esxi/ [17:14:53] I thought you guys only do open source [17:14:57] its vmwares bare metal VM manager [17:15:22] I run a large vmware cluster at work :) we are switching to ESX4i in about a week :) [17:15:25] or you can run some open source VM kinda server. [17:15:25] heh [17:15:40] I'm comfortable with xen or esxi [17:15:49] I am not fond of them, the open source options, or we would prolly use them someplace already. [17:15:57] ah [17:16:13] I have not gotten to play with the esxi onboard the dells, so i would get to glance at it before i turn it to you guys (gimme a day to tinker on it) [17:16:38] but i like that solution, speciifically since its testing and non-permanent use. [17:16:47] esx isn't really wonderful until you cluster it :) [17:17:07] yea, i messed with having a shared disk host and esx servers [17:17:15] was neat to move live traffic around with no downtime =] [17:17:21] yeah [17:17:28] its really awesome clustered [17:17:38] you need win2003 server for it too as well [17:17:43] and windows clients to manage it [17:17:53] and oracle or mssql [17:18:54] red hat is supposed to be having something similar coming within the next 18 months [17:19:40] to manage xen. you can already do live migration with it, and I think it supports HA, but it isn't nearly as nice as using virtual center [17:20:38] RobH: if you let me know long term goals, I can spec out something for that too if you'd like [17:20:56] i came in here expecting to get specs =P [17:20:59] heh [17:21:03] lol [17:21:05] I have no idea what the longterm goals are [17:21:07] you guys tell me. [17:21:09] I do have some specs already done [17:21:20] brion just said 'they need a server to setup vms for client side testing' [17:21:24] brion told me to also fer a dell spec [17:21:31] err get, not fer [17:21:41] heh [17:22:09] http://www.dell.com/us/en/business/servers/server-poweredge-r610/pd.aspx?refid=server-poweredge-r610&s=bsd&cs=04 [17:22:19] that is the new 1950 [17:22:40] are we going to have shared storage available? [17:22:52] Nope [17:23:10] ok [17:23:10] especially since there will be VMs and untrusted running on this [17:23:15] it will be a standalone system [17:23:31] so include in your spec the space you need diskwise to use something like the raid 5 or raid10 option on there [17:23:43] then you can post it in here or email me at rhalsell@wikimedia.org with it [17:23:49] dell gives us better pricing than their website. [17:23:59] right [17:24:10] (or you can tell me and I can spec it out from what you all need, but it seems you already have that half done =) [17:24:36] well, if this has esxi on the firmware, we can use all 6 harddrives for a raid5 [17:25:00] yep [17:25:19] i have no issue with us trying esxi [17:25:28] honestly i been wanting to poke at it, this is a nice proof of concept for us. [17:25:42] whee [17:25:45] yeah. honestly its the best vm option out there [17:25:48] and the only thing i know opensource is xen [17:25:53] and xen + ubuntu = pain [17:26:08] i was thinking xen+opensolaris, but that is also a pain :) [17:26:12] indeed [17:26:16] but you get the nicety of using zfs [17:26:30] so nice snapshots, etc. [17:26:37] brion: we will have to have mark set up a specific vlan for this host, since its going to have usabilty folks accessing it i presume [17:26:44] *nod* [17:27:05] but i have the rackspace for it, so good times [17:27:15] brion: have you every used PHP Unit? [17:27:23] I've been looking into it a bit [17:27:26] Ryan_Lane: dont feel like i am saying 'has to be dell, has to be esxi' those are just the most cost effective and quality solutions i can think of. [17:27:56] dell costs a third of ibm/sun/hp/whatever and still gets te support, i am partial to their servers. [17:28:03] (not their consumer support, which sucks) [17:28:10] RobH: I think esxi on the R610 is a great idea. I didn't think it was an option before :) [17:28:37] excellent =] lemme know what specs you guys want and I can get a quote from dell with our discounts to move forward [17:28:48] if you want, feel free to fill that page out and email it to me [17:28:50] ok. I'll email a quote to you [17:29:00] excellent [17:29:07] I sat through a really boring presentation at OSCON for it - but it's actually pretty cool [17:29:11] http://www.phpunit.de/ [17:29:41] any preference on SAS or SATA? [17:30:15] my organization refuses to order SATA for most things [17:30:15] sata is half the price [17:30:27] and you may need to use it for the size drives you want. [17:30:46] sounds good [17:30:56] We use SAS for our dbs now and such [17:31:18] but those take huge performance requirements, i think this, VMs or not, can be fine with sata [17:31:50] yeah. agreed. we usually worry about the silent error rate differences, but that shouldn't be an issue with this either [17:31:56] sometimes they are so close in price who cares, but use your best judgement [17:33:47] ok - so far the latest update of thunderbird is angering me [17:33:53] search used to work really well [17:34:33] now it's taking forever! [17:34:55] it already re-indexed everything, now it's just being mean to be [17:34:57] *me [17:36:10] and it crashed! [17:38:10] i have never loved a tbird release [17:38:13] yet i use it. [17:41:46] bluh, finally got caught up on wikitech-l [17:41:58] like a billion useless irrelevant posts about wysiwyg :) [17:42:38] Yeah, I feel like that one's sort of my fault, for unleashing the dragon. :) [17:43:13] you did not find me writing there ... I surprised myself [17:43:50] Yeah, what happened? :) [17:43:50] YaronK: don't worry, it happens all the time anyways [17:44:05] Curiously, only about the first two responses had anything to do with the subject line. [17:45:07] hehe [17:45:16] people get offtopic easily ;) [17:45:39] I guess there's an untapped hatred of wiki-text out there that outweighs all other feelings. [17:46:49] Hey, on that note... anybody want to talk about template calls? [17:51:12] I guess that's a no. [17:51:19] *TrevorParscal is still sifting through emails [17:51:42] gosh this week has been mostly communication and catchup [17:51:44] *catch-up [17:55:40] RobH: quote sent. edit as mercilessly as needed :) [17:56:01] cool [17:56:25] came out around the same price as the sun one, but with more hard drive space [17:56:51] OS on flash is awesome though :) [17:58:57] heh [18:02:08] brion: Naoko asked me to set up an ideatorrent for testing. I did that, but I'm unsure how I should handle authentication... Should it tie in with central auth? [18:03:29] hmmm not sure we've got an easy way to do that yet for non-MW apps [18:03:42] openid? [18:03:43] does it happen to have openid support? been thinking about slapping up the openid provider ext [18:03:48] yeah, it does [18:03:58] its drupal based [18:04:01] oooh nice [18:04:14] ok i'll have to take a peek over the provider ext first to double-check it'll work right, then we might try it out :D [18:04:29] mw has an openid provider extension? [18:05:32] oh neat. the openid extension can act as a provider. didn't realize that [18:27:28] So... we started a small js tool project which might fall under usability's purview: a tool to allow double-clicking a word which will look up the term on wiktionary. [18:28:02] We have a semi-working model, but I'm wondering how we can get further help with the project. [18:31:05] ooooh [18:31:43] Heh. Now if I just had the facial expression to go with that one... [18:39:32] So, brion, http://fr.wikinews.org/wiki/Utilisateur:Amgine/monobook.js <- works, with a few bugs. [18:42:40] want to gadget it up or just get more testing at this point? [18:44:42] I'd like to add a "hover" effect if the cursor stays over a word for a few seconds. [18:45:13] But there are three bugs we've identified. [18:45:49] French Wikinews is salivating for this, however. They apparently have a lot of French-Second-Language students. [18:45:52] ooh [18:50:08] YaronK: poke poke we need to finalize stuff for the gsoc meetup thingy; you want in? :D [18:50:53] Oh, yeah, sorry - I'm in. [18:51:00] excellent :D [18:51:29] Do I need to give you dates for the flight, or someone else? [18:51:50] first lemme grab siebrand so we can set ya both up at once :D [18:52:40] Amgine: seems to work (ff 3.5), whee! sub-ideal for words that are capitalized at start of a sentence though [18:53:05] And with trailing punctuation, or l'article. [18:53:10] *nod* [18:53:46] might want as first thing to swap from opening a new window to fetching the wikitext via api and displaying it in a floating div [18:53:57] [18:54:02] then see about moving from on-double-click to on-hover [18:54:15] that gives you a chance also to decide how to split up the text differently [18:54:54] [18:55:07] and also toss in a link to open the wiktionary art full-page of course :D [18:56:28] YaronK: ok siebrand's a bit busy so we'll just summarize quick :D [18:56:40] prolly simplest is for you two to book your own flights and we'll reimburse [18:56:59] can you send me & erik a schedule & estimated cost, and we'll give final approval? [18:57:03] ah there ya are :D [18:57:05] Thanks brion. I may have a fish about developer. [18:57:14] hi, idle watching Grey's Anayomy. Back in 45. [18:57:18] hehe [18:57:33] Alright, I'll do that. [18:57:52] excellent :D [19:01:24] I'm light on work right now if anyone has anything for me to do :) [19:01:44] Do you javascript? [19:02:00] unfortunately not. backend stuff mostly [19:02:13] [19:02:28] Ryan_Lane: nimish could use help setting up some batch jobs on some sort of server somwhere to do some XML -> SQL dump stuff [19:02:28] at least I don't do it well enough to help you :) [19:02:31] Amgine: i'll tell the interwebs about it see if it gets some love :D [19:03:02] TrevorParscal: yeah. we had talked about it. I think the toolserver may have been slated for it? [19:03:43] I'm not sure if we actually have that [19:04:16] heh [19:06:49] my original idea was to have the script connect to the cluster DBs [19:06:59] but that would be ridiculous as I realized [19:07:11] Amgine: http://identi.ca/notice/10733387 :D [19:07:23] so instead, we can put it on literally any machine and then have a huge data import into the cluster machines, so it can run anywhere [19:07:53] [19:08:37] awwww [19:08:59] nimish_g: we're speaking of food plans [19:09:03] any prefs? [19:09:31] vegetarian? [19:09:43] or something with > 0 veg options on the menu =) [19:10:27] nimish_g: we're thinking the sushi place on king st [19:11:19] brion: I'd be down, wanna meet at the corner of stillman in like 5? [19:12:11] sounds good [19:12:20] k, see ya then! [19:44:30] brion-lunch: sent you cost and schedule vr 11-9-2009 20:21 CEST [19:44:46] brion-lunch: will resent. [19:44:49] s/t/d [19:53:00] Oh, you guys are doing a GSoC meetup? [19:53:13] ? [19:53:14] *RoanKattouw got a GSoC t-shirt even though he didn't officially mentor anyone [19:53:27] RoanKattouw: excellent response on that thread [19:53:36] ha ha ha [19:53:50] TrevorParscal: And it's Bryan, I like that guy, go figure :) [19:54:15] well, maybe he's having a bad day [19:55:19] seems like the solution to https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20606 is to use "start...end" ellipsis rather than "start..." [19:55:33] I was planning on adding that functionality anyways [19:55:56] what do you think of that style as an option where it makes sense [19:56:55] ? [19:58:35] Be my guest [19:59:16] :) [20:00:28] brion-lunch: sent. [20:01:51] adam_miller: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:Code/MediaWiki/56924#c4158 [20:02:22] adam_miller: You should create an account on mediawiki.org and link it to your SVN username, so you get e-mail notifications when people comment on your revisions or commit followup revisions [20:03:51] RoanKattouw: will do [20:06:08] adam_miller: You'll probably need someone to give you coder rights; tell me your username when you're done and I'll promote you [20:06:26] RoanKattouw: my username is adammiller [20:07:12] OK promoted you [20:07:30] http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:Adam_Miller [20:12:58] TrevorParscal: Without a space [20:13:07] yes [20:13:09] sorry [20:14:22] RoanKattouw: how do i link it to my svn? [20:21:31] Oh turns out I could do that too; done [20:21:41] http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:Code/MediaWiki/author/adam [20:22:02] Damn this wikitech-l thread is busy, three messages came in while I was writing mine [20:22:04] Make that four [20:47:14] RoanKattouw: I tihnk you got the tshirt for folling out the 'I can be a mentor is there is a student for me' form. [20:50:37] Yeah I guess; werdna got one as well [20:56:22] brion-lunch: I suspect that the GlobalDependency on $wgExtensionMessagesFiles is somehow broken on WMF wikis, both due to bug 20773 (which should have been prevented from ever happening by that dependency) and because the code flow and FileDependency seem to accomodate for nonexistent cache files just fine. Can you investigate this? [20:58:37] brion-lunch: Alternatively, the procedure of using a different dir for update.php as opposed to normal usage may not work out well [20:58:46] It'd be setting a FileDependency on the wrong file [21:00:24] d'oh [21:23:23] adam_miller: i think the hover effect of the star should affect it's border color, not it's fill color [21:23:30] the fill color is the indication of state [21:23:45] so it should only change when the state changes [21:23:55] yeah thats a good suggestion [21:24:32] i'll pass that on to hannes and ask for different hover states [21:43:17] Ok folks, do people like the print/export section above or below the toolbox? http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/mediawiki/d/df/Toolbox-mockup.png [21:57:43] toolbox on top :)