[14:40:22] hi werdna. there? [14:49:42] Ryan_Lane: the test automation diagram looks GREAT!! [15:29:10] RoanKattouw: how did the exam go? [15:29:19] Very good :) [15:31:14] of course ;) [15:31:35] nkomura: I just read your reply on the wikinews bug; would it be OK if I fixed the config so other wikis that have the toolbar enabled by default really do get it enabled by default (this broke earlier, bug 20361)? [15:32:19] yeah [15:32:19] I'd do this later today, of course, so I'm sure the ops folks are around and so someone can tell me how exactly to do this kind of thing [15:33:28] i also wanted to discuss how to correct the configs from the people we accidentally switched back the toolbar to the old one [15:33:52] That's what I mean [15:34:12] You mentioned that the toolbar suddenly wasn't the default anymore on wikis where it should be (usabilitywiki, strategywiki) [15:34:31] That's because of a mistake in the config [15:35:07] i tried so many different settings on that day to troubleshoot [15:35:24] i don't remember exactly [15:35:34] but for en.wikinews [15:36:49] the old toolbar was made default as en.wikinews wanted to decouple Vector from the enhanced toolbar [15:37:09] it was per request, so it was ok [15:37:11] Yeah [15:37:11] let [15:41:37] let's run through the scenarios to make sure we get it right this time [15:43:41] Yeah [15:45:12] nkomura: BTW, I just did this , I believe someone mentioned it on a usabilitywiki talk page [15:47:12] cool [15:48:19] will require some testing, but do you feel confident bundling into next week's release? [15:51:52] good morning, brion [15:54:31] Sure [15:54:42] I'll go set up the deployment wiki shortly [15:55:32] howdy kids [15:55:49] how's wikisym? [15:56:39] brion: To do a config change, this is the workflow, right? 1) Change InitaliseSettings/CommonSettings on zwinger 2) commit to wmf-config (which I probably can't commit to yet) 3) sync-file from the wmf-deployment dir (?) [16:00:06] sounds about right [16:00:25] In particular I wasn't sure from which dir to run sync-file [16:01:59] well you can run it from anywhere :) [16:02:12] but it takes paths relative to /h/w/common/wmf-deployment [16:02:23] Ah right that's the culprit [16:02:29] I knew there was on [16:02:31] e [16:07:40] nkomura: the watch tab is missing a rightside seperation line when there is no dropdown menu. [16:08:11] oh [16:08:33] thedj: are you checking it on en.prototype? [16:08:39] indeed [16:11:12] hi adam_miller [16:11:22] please see the comment from thedj [16:11:24] morning nkomura [16:11:28] morning [16:11:54] oooo, right that wont show up when there is no dropdown menu next to it [16:12:02] i'll put that on the top of my list to fix [16:12:10] thanks [16:12:15] good catch thedj [16:13:19] and when i'm in edit mode, and click "Main Page", i get two "are you sure you want to leave this page?" dialogs... [16:13:28] Safari 4/mac [16:14:07] what do you mean two [16:14:09] ? [16:14:17] i'll create a screenshot [16:14:29] it asks you again even say you are sure to navigate away? [16:14:53] no i get 2 dialogs at the same time [16:15:05] that sounds pretty bad [16:15:28] will you file a bug and attach the screenshot? [16:16:08] http://imagebin.ca/view/AlVIcptA.html [16:16:20] will do [16:16:45] it is indeed odd [16:17:28] heh [16:17:48] thedj: let me know the bug ID so that I will ask the usability tech team to grab it [16:18:47] bug 21311 [16:23:10] thanks [16:26:40] nkomura: I'm gonna try and fix the toolbar-enabled-by-default thing in usability&strategywiki now, if that's OK [16:27:26] can you walk me through the changes first? [16:31:13] The only change is that I'm correcting a typo in the config file (which Rob made at my instruction) so the line saying "enable the toolbar by default for usability&strategy" is spelled correctly [16:33:23] I think it will be clearer, if you refer to the new toolbar as "enhanced toolbar" to make the language consistent [16:33:29] hey aude-wiki [16:33:56] OK [16:34:19] I can go ahead with that config change then? [16:34:57] hey [16:35:55] RoanKattouw: sure [16:37:20] Gah [16:37:33] ? [16:38:04] I just got like 200 password prompts in parallel [16:38:10] Something not set up right there [16:47:17] adam_miller: Thanks for acaifix-tagging your revs [16:49:25] nkomura: Do we want to deploy the new toolbar icons for with the capital As next week? What about the indent icon? [16:50:43] RoanKattouw: Yes to captial A [16:50:46] A [16:50:49] A's [16:52:03] yes to indentation too [16:52:09] as we discussed yesterday [16:52:10] OK [16:52:24] we want to improve the toolbar incrementally [16:52:44] Grrr [16:52:55] we will need to disable LQT from prototypes [16:53:33] Or just on deployment [16:53:39] Where it was never enabled in the first place [16:53:51] Or is LQT doing something wrong for you? [16:55:02] user flow and UI are not the same [16:55:36] will you disable it from all languages? [16:55:41] Sure [16:55:54] But that'll render any discussions in LQT inaccessible [16:56:08] Oh wait this is prototype :D [16:56:10] Never midn [16:56:56] Done [17:11:02] Roan, I think I am starting to understand why people think their localisations are not available.. [17:11:53] Is it possible that the software first looks for a fallback message in a different language before it looks for a message in the LocalisationUpdate file ? [17:14:04] RoanKattouw: http://translatewiki.net/w/i.php?title=User_talk:GerardM&diff=0&oldid=1598881 [17:17:23] adam_miller_lunc and nimish_g, let's create a list of revisions for brion and tim's code review today [17:22:04] ok, for me I think it should just be the special:clicktracking stuff [17:29:19] nimish_g: yeah, but let's tag it properly so that brion and tim can review them in organized fashion [17:30:50] adam_miller: did RoanKattouw go over revision tag for you? [17:30:56] ok, will do [17:31:20] nkomura: he did, and i tagged everything with acaifix [17:31:29] cool [17:32:17] do i need to do more than that? [17:33:59] adam_miller: i think that should be sufficient [17:34:01] hello everyone [17:34:03] RoanKattouw: I'm looking at allot of these selection issues in IE [17:34:05] what are you up to? [17:34:21] just discussing the tagging for the code review [17:34:36] FYI, I updated the "Template Forms" specification again, based on a long discussion yesterday; see here: http://usability.wikimedia.org/wiki/Template_forms#Specification_structure [17:34:41] also the odd bugzilla came in earlier from thedj [17:35:02] https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=21311 [17:36:52] RoanKattouw: how do i pull up the revision list with a tag? [17:37:31] YaronK, TrevorParscal and nimish_g: are you available to meet at 4pm today? [17:37:47] i'm good with that [17:37:59] me too [17:38:23] Definitely. [17:38:58] let's meet and scope out the template implementation. Erik will join us too [17:49:28] brion: do you have bandwidth for code review today? [17:49:50] [1:18pm] brion: i won't have time to touch anything today sorry [17:49:51] [1:19pm] brion: giving my wikisym talk this afternoon then heading down to tampa to visit friends [17:50:32] understood [17:50:54] shall we send a pointer to tim to head-start the review process? [17:51:28] good luck with your talk brion. looking forward to catch the recording later [17:52:45] *nkomura looks for babaco tag in Code Review, but can't find it [17:52:46] tx [17:59:35] RoanKattouw: you around? [18:06:29] aude? [18:15:20] TrevorParscal: Yeah I'm here [18:15:34] i thought we had a babacofix tag [18:15:40] TrevorParscal: I'm going through revs and tagging them [18:15:41] did we change that to something else? [18:15:48] :) you = ninja [18:16:05] acaifix this time [18:16:11] Since that's what most of it is [18:16:30] Of course the occasional trivial fix for something that's technically Babaco is also in there [18:18:01] nkomura: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:Code/MediaWiki/acaifix (still tagging stuff) [18:19:00] RoanKattouw: so for the upcoming release next week, acaifix is fine [18:19:11] but why wasn't there babaco tag for the previous release? [18:19:32] There was, but I blanked it [18:19:36] As well as acaifix [18:19:50] As in, I removed already-deployed revs from it [18:19:56] got it [18:20:47] i wonder if we should tag for the release date or something easier to identify as we have two stages of acaifix [18:21:37] Yeah I thought about that [18:22:09] nkomura: Do we wanna deploy clicktracking for the left navbar as well? As I said there's a few caveats there but it's generally production-ready [18:24:26] let's put in the code review queue and ask for feedback [18:24:37] OK, tagging it [18:25:03] nimish is listing his click tracking UI for review too [18:25:17] I tagged it as "babaco support" [18:25:34] that sounds good [18:25:43] RoanKattouw: can you follow the same tagging convention? [18:26:28] So re-tag everything to babaco support? [18:26:54] nimish_g: I don't see that tag [18:27:21] hm, let me double-check [18:28:14] RoanKattouw: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:Code/MediaWiki/58205 though when I search it it doesn't come up [18:28:15] RoanKattouw: i meant just for left nav tracking portion [18:28:35] it is fine to point two tags to code reviewers [18:28:51] nimish_g: That's an interesting CodeReview bug, caused by space -> underscore conversion [18:28:59] OK [18:28:59] acaifix and babaco support (or whatever you call it) [18:29:18] hm, so I should use babaco_support? [18:29:19] Right now I've just tagged everything we want deployed as acaifix [18:29:26] nimish_g: Yeah or babacosupport [18:29:37] ok, I'll go with babacosupport, stick with convention =) [18:29:46] thanks [18:29:48] Feel free to retag stuff but please don't remove acaifix from any revs just yet, because I'm using the list to do the merge [18:30:12] there we go. ok [18:31:55] nimish? [18:32:32] is the clicktracking data which you send to the team on oct. 16th up to date? [18:33:23] hannes_tank: it was as of then, but that was just for en wikipedia [18:33:49] hopefully today brion will review special:clicktracking and you and Parul will have a better tool to look at the data =) [18:34:04] oh great [18:34:44] no time to touch anything today guys :) [18:40:11] OK I'm done tagging, gonna merge to our deployment wiki now [18:48:47] *RoanKattouw sighs, some merge conflicts to resolve when it finishes [19:06:58] nimish_g: Is it OK to just update ClickTracking to the latest version? It seems something went weird with a merge somewhere, causing all kinds of conflicts when I merge [19:08:25] RoanKattouw: yeah, I did a merge a bit ago and all of the sudden the special:clicktracking stuff is completely broken. I'm trying to figure out why now...there was a pretty messy diff since someone changed the formatting, but it looked like it was *just* formatting changes so I accepted it...sigh... [19:08:51] Yeah [19:09:00] I'm just gonna do svn merge -r 51646:HEAD [19:10:55] 54763 rather [19:11:34] *RoanKattouw WTFs [19:11:44] Maybe someone merged something and didn't use svn merge properly [19:20:49] Yay, merge done *sigh* poke http://prototype.wikimedia.org/deployment to verify it reflects the state you want Wikipedia to be in after our deployment next week [19:22:47] I just noticed I didn't include the restyling of the NTOC highlighting; should we? [19:24:06] I think so [19:28:54] http://usability.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Template_forms#Another_proposal [19:39:55] TrevorParscal: Should we include http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:Code/MediaWiki/57992 ? [19:45:13] TrevorParscal: NTOC restyling merged [19:45:53] RoanKattouw: TrevorParscal and nimish_g stepped out for lunch [19:45:57] thanks for the merge [19:47:27] OK, late lunch I guess [19:47:44] RoanKattouw: not that late [19:47:57] RoanKattouw: i love the heading improvements you applied [19:47:59] works nicely [19:48:05] Yeah [19:48:30] It turned out not to be that difficult, but I put quite a bit of thought in how to do that architecturally; once I'd figured that out it proved to be easier than I thought [19:49:17] so we can do un-bolding and un-italic in the near future? [19:49:38] We can do it in 30 minutes if you want to [19:49:55] let's not go there yet, but good to know ;) [19:50:01] heh [19:50:18] We probably want the button-down effect when the cursor is on a bold piece of text first [19:50:24] we should definitely incorporate that into the following release [19:51:06] parutron will love that. too bad she stepped out [19:52:26] More good news: my shell access is finally coming together; it needs like half an hour to propagate but I can tell it's already propagating [19:52:40] When that's done I can do the config change I wanted to do this morning [19:52:55] exciting [19:53:07] howie is anxiously waiting for the data drop too ;) [19:53:52] so RoanKattouw, i was demoing your new feature of highlighting, but it didn't work all the time [19:54:02] i think we should test some more [19:54:17] GerardM-: Sorry for the delay, only looked at your message now; looking at that talkpage thread [19:54:33] naoko: Highlighting? [19:54:34] thanks [19:55:36] i meant highlighting the headings [19:55:39] GerardM-: So basically you're saying newly created messages don't show up in the original language, but in the fallback language? i.e. LU only works if the message was already present in that language at the last software update? [19:56:35] I am not sure ... they would have shown in the fallback language already I expect.. [19:56:43] ,, it may be a cache thing [19:56:56] OK lemme rephrase [19:57:52] The failure case is this: 1) the message is not translated into language A at the time of the last software update 2) at this point, the message is shown in language B (fallback) instead 3) someone adds the message in A, gets pushed to LU 4) message in A not picked up, still displayed in B [19:57:57] Does that sound right? [19:58:52] yes [19:59:21] OK [19:59:23] That is what Don Alessandro suggest [19:59:50] I'm gonna try to reproduce that locally [20:06:24] Gah LocalisationUpdate/update.php is segfaulting for me, could be due to the maintenance-work branch merge [20:19:23] GerardM-: OK I looked at the LU cache files on the server and apparently the savedprefs message is not in the tt-cyrl cache file [20:19:29] So somehow LU is not putting it there [20:20:05] And frp does have it [20:21:39] adam_miller: combining the animated gif with the right hand line is not a good idea [20:21:58] got any other ideas? [20:22:19] i can't think of anyway to do it without altering the images or the markup [20:22:28] so the issue is that when there is no drop down present, we get no right line? [20:22:55] Just make the right line a product of the search box rather than the drop down [20:28:05] i'll give that a shot [20:29:56] GerardM-: I found it [20:30:07] For some reason it's explicitly checking that the message is pre-existing [20:30:09] Which is evil [20:39:50] adam_miller: Do you work full-time or part-time? [20:40:12] ~40hrs/wk [20:40:25] OK that's full-time then [20:40:37] Cause Tim is compiling a list of people who work for us, apparently we don't have one :) [20:41:21] i'm contracted for up to 40hrs/wk [20:41:28] so not a /real/ employee but close [20:42:34] Yeah, point is that you're full-time :) [20:42:48] He split the tech team in general full/part and usability full/part [20:43:42] RoanKattouw: what to do next ? [20:43:50] Test it [20:43:57] My local PHP keeps segfaulting [20:44:00] So I wanna test this on testwiki [20:44:08] can I leave iok [20:44:09] ok [21:03:39] RoanKattouw: it is getting late for you [21:05:04] i am hoping you can do data dump for howie today. i guess you are still waiting for shell access [21:06:49] naoko: Not very. It's only 10 pm (we're out of DST already, so the difference is one hour less this week) [21:07:05] No, I have shell access now, I'm struggling with LocalisationUpdate ATM; I'll do the dumps after that [21:07:13] k [21:12:10] TrevorParscal: re: watch/unwatch border - the search box didn't work, but i applied the border to the div.vectorTabs ul and then just throw 1px margin on the icon watch/unwatch tab so it has a border when it needs it [21:12:13] should be all set now [21:12:41] :) [21:46:15] adam_miller: there's a question posted to the blog post i made about cascading tabs. do you want to comment? [21:46:16] http://techblog.wikimedia.org/2009/10/usability-beta-enhancements/#comments [21:46:30] watch/unwatch star is a hit [21:47:21] People are loving it :) [21:53:25] naoko: bawolff's question? or would you like me to expound on your answer to josh? [21:54:40] bawolff's question [21:55:23] he is the javascript coder for en.wikinews who also sent an inquiry about expanding cascading tabs [21:57:41] have we ever thought about that case? i think he's asking for nested drop down menus, which I'm pretty sure we weren't planning for and haven't made any provisions in the code for [21:58:55] He can always implement them himself [21:59:08] If we aren't gonna use them there's no reason we should write that code [22:19:36] http://usability.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Template_forms#Another_proposal [22:29:03] TrevorParscal: In that XML example, maybe make it clearer that the label is also translatable [22:34:40] naoko: I fixed the encoding problem! Whee! [22:35:03] CONGRATS!!! [22:36:10] Turns out I /could/ have done it without shell access [22:36:15] I set the collation on my database wrong [22:36:57] oh well, you needed one any way for the future deployment work [22:37:04] so it was worth it [22:37:25] Yeah [22:37:47] It turned out to be one setting, a very small detail, I guess that's typical for these things [22:39:52] RoanKattouw: just look at the DTD... [22:40:11] Yeah I know, it's in the DTD, but the inline comments suggest otheriwse [22:40:14] it's all in flux anyways [22:40:29] i will try and make it more clear [22:40:33] I'm about to revise it allot [22:49:42] YaronK, nimish_g, and TrevorParscal, Erik says the meeting he is attending may run over 4pm. we'll start as soon as erik is out of the meeting [22:49:57] Okey doke. [22:50:22] k [22:51:17] ooh secret meeting [22:51:43] YaronK: i'm looking at the CodeMirror example in your template form documentation [22:52:12] Okay. [22:52:33] howie is trying to find a way to automate the translation of beta survey feedback using google translate [22:53:15] i see and feel the automation maybe possible [22:54:09] it is completely off topic from the template discussion by the way [22:58:44] I figured. :) [23:00:44] http://usability.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Template_forms#Another_proposal [23:00:56] death to datum [23:01:17] field is sort of like msg - similar purpose, used in multiple places [23:01:30] which is good for libraries that use this stuff [23:12:18] TrevorParscal: I know you're probably in a meeting, but at some point I'd like you to give the new table dialog your CSS ninja treatment; it looks a little weird here and there (you'll probably see that when you look at it) and it doesn't do graceful horizontal resizing like we did for the link dialog (and as of today, also for the S&R dialog) [23:21:46] Table optin_survey_grouped has been dropped (Query took 79.9937 sec) :O [23:24:50] mdale1: are you en:User:Mdale ? [23:25:00] that I am [23:25:08] ok. [23:25:15] just checking [23:39:56] he brion. talk went ok ? [23:41:23] yep! went great, got some good questions [23:41:33] i think it went out streaming, not sure if they've got dl videos yet [23:41:36] i'm uploading my slides now [23:42:00] looking forward to the dl. [23:46:01] hm, i think i killed my server with that upload ;) [23:46:27] hrm [23:46:31] actually i think linode is down :D [23:47:49] brion: prototype (also a Linode server) works for me [23:48:07] might be different data centers [23:48:11] or a different route [23:48:42] RoanKattouw: can you log in there and ping leuksman.com and linode.com ? [23:48:51] just to see if they're reachable internally from their other dc [23:49:03] linode.com responds [23:49:04] i'm in the dallas dc i think, you're in.... new jersey or something [23:49:10] leuksman doesn't [23:49:15] No, Fremont [23:49:57] fremont, ca? thought you'd grapbbed something closer to europe :) [23:50:01] must have been thinking of wikitech [23:50:24] ok let's see if i can get into my account settings now..... [23:50:30] Yeah we're in Fremont, East Bay AFAIK [23:50:43] convenient for everybody in the office then :D [23:51:25] "security issues" fixed in firefox 3.5.4 prerelease [23:51:42] i'll just wait a little while for linode to settle. :) [23:52:02] oh wait there it comes [23:55:37] manager interface is very slow :) [23:57:01] *snicker* http://www.tsa.gov/blog/2009/10/response-to-bag-check-cartoon.html