[00:01:18] rebootin' my vm... [00:15:07] there we go [00:20:41] thedj: http://leuksman.com/pages/presentations#October_2009 <- slides [13:44:30] hey roan are you there? [13:47:33] Yeah [13:48:50] good [13:49:08] i need some help with some wiki layout [13:59:30] can you indent + ul ? [13:59:50] :* that does not work [14:02:08] Should work [14:02:22] What's the exact wikicode you're using? [14:11:07] hold on... i think i ll do something else [14:19:27] roan, is it possible to add ul within tables? [14:19:43] Probably [14:19:45] and second: can we somehow get rid of the white bg around thumbs ? [14:19:47] * should work too [14:20:26] no it doesnt [14:20:58] Hm [14:21:25] not that important... [14:21:29] The background is weird [14:21:36] but the white bg around thumbs annoys me [14:21:39] Looks like it theoretically shouldn't happen [14:22:51] *hannes-tank thinks it is time for coffee [14:24:17] hannes-tank: I edited your user CSS so it should no longer be white [14:24:30] I'll pitch it to Trevor later when he gets in [14:24:34] cool [14:24:34] thank you [14:24:42] http://usability.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Juxn/vector.css [16:18:47] RoanKattouw: you arond? [16:19:00] or around for that matter? [16:28:02] Yeah but I'm not the one operating the computer :) [16:30:32] RoanKattouw: when you are, I've got some stuff to run by you :) [16:33:58] I'll be there in half an hour [16:35:31] k [17:11:30] OK I'm here and I've got like 15 mins [17:12:45] TrevorParscal: Ping, I'm here (if you're already typing, ignore this message) [17:13:10] :) [17:13:36] basically all I wanted to sync with you on is about my plans to fix all the babaco bugs [17:13:43] with one specific change [17:14:15] we are going to use an iframe + content editable with no syntax highlighting or special magic [17:14:23] just plain text in a content-editable pre in an iframe [17:14:37] which is the same exact thing we need as a foundation for the citron work [17:14:42] Ha [17:14:44] That's clever [17:14:54] plus is gives us WAY more control over everything [17:15:03] NTOC and text-selection bugs will vanish [17:15:25] Aye [17:15:45] I'm working on the code module for wikiEditor right now [17:15:52] we can deploy this in december [17:16:16] This is still the content-editable thing? [17:17:17] yes [17:17:35] Assuming you've got all that, I'll be working on shepherding those two patches then [17:17:36] so, the thing is, this is the direction we are headed anyways [17:17:44] Yeah I love the idea [17:18:29] i noticecd my (and yor) work was deviating from what would be needed / useful in citron - so this wil fix that [17:18:39] textareas suck [17:20:56] Aye [17:21:09] BTW there was a regression from the click -> mousedown move that I fixed [17:21:19] return false; in the mousedown handler doesn't prevent the default action on click [17:21:39] So when dealing with , clicking the link will send you to the top of the page [17:28:20] ah! [21:23:38] Damn [21:24:03] I'm bringing that editsection link reversal patch up to date and I'm looking at a 100-line conflict in Vector.php :( [21:28:15] And the patch modifies vector/main.css , which doesn't exist anymore [21:48:10] TrevorParscal: When rebuilding main-rtl.css with CSSJanus, it tries to change search-rtl.png to search-ltr.png; I saw it and changed it back, but it might cause someone else to inadvertently break RTL SimpleSearch [21:48:49] there is a ltr and rtl version of the png though [21:49:01] Yes [21:49:09] so what was the issue? [21:49:16] But CSSJanus doesn't know, and changes the RTL CSS back to the -ltr image when you regenerate it [21:49:34] Oh wait [21:49:43] I didn't pass that parameter to CSSJanus [21:49:45] you aren't supposed to put any rtl css n there [21:49:59] you are supposed to let CSSJanus do all of it for you [21:50:13] you can use @noflip if you need CSSJanus to leave something alone [21:50:20] No, you don't understand [21:50:33] main-ltr.css has a line referring to something-ltr.png [21:50:51] And CSSJanus doesn't flip that to -rtl.png, unless you pass it this command line param that I stupidly forgot about [21:51:27] Now that I did pass it, it does, and it's all good [21:58:24] TrevorParscal: When you have time, can you review the CSS and Vector parts of https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/attachment.cgi?id=6731&action=diff ? [21:58:39] sure [22:00:36] i like how you are using /mw-h1 [22:00:40] *.mw-h1 [22:00:45] what made you do that? [22:01:10] I didn't [22:01:13] Simetrical did [22:01:17] oh [22:01:20] I just resolved the merge conflicts :) [22:01:22] ah - this is his path [22:01:54] They were quite interesting: somehow a one-line change to an ancient version of Vector.php triggered a 110-line conflict (screw you, SVN), and merging main.css was interesting because it doesn't exist anymore [22:03:37] ah [22:03:49] well, this looks good, but it needs to be tested a bit as well [22:03:55] Aye [22:04:06] I'll put it up at a sandbox [22:05:36] Eek [22:05:43] Sandbox 5 (new color scheme) uses a scary font [22:06:00] Seriously, why are we changing the font? [22:06:39] RoanKattouw: sandbox 5 is in use, so don't overwrite it [22:06:54] Yeah [22:06:59] s1 doesn't seem to be used though [22:07:45] adam is using 1 and 5 [22:08:00] you can take 3 [22:08:20] as werdna is on vacation and there is a lot of updates to LQT [22:08:28] Ah yes [22:08:50] *RoanKattouw runs svn update on 1 and 5, hopes that makes 5 look less horrible [22:09:17] That font at that size suffers from major kerning on my system [22:12:38] Hey GerardM- ; thanks for reporting that LU bug yesterday, as you may have seen on your talk page I tracked it down and fixed it. Siebrand rebuilt most of the language files today (for a totally different reason), which means all of those languages should be fixed in the morning [22:12:56] that is really cool [22:13:09] so I can follow up and ask if everything is fine [22:28:37] parutron: Is the Georgia font on the headers in Sandbox 5 a conscious choice? I'm seeing some bad kerning on the first header (Example Importing...) on http://prototype.wikimedia.org/sandbox.5/Main_Page [22:29:58] RoanKattouw: I have a list that is according to the CLDR the correct list of characters in the Sinhala language ... I have asked our Sri Lankan partners for confirmation... [22:30:24] hi RoanKattouw. yeah it's something we're playing with. [22:30:46] can you explain in email and cc hannes + adam? [22:30:58] i'm deep in the usability videos right now [22:31:23] OK. I'm busy doing something else too, I'll take a screenshot later and send out an e-mail [22:31:51] Are Hannes and Adam in the usabilityteam alias (I think Adam is, not sure about Hannes) [22:32:51] he is [22:32:53] TrevorParscal: OK, demo running at http://prototype.wikimedia.org/sandbox.3/Main_Page , noticing some ugliness rightaway [22:33:28] TrevorParscal: The first [edit] is attached to the header because the header was specified as ==Foo== rather than == Foo ==. We may need some padding/spacing/whatever there [22:33:53] yes [22:34:06] like 1 or 2em of left margin [22:34:10] for the link [22:34:21] plus about 24px of padding and a pencil background image [22:34:30] the padding being left padding only there [22:35:10] thanks RoanKattouw you rule [22:35:20] TrevorParscal: Maybe just a space between the two tags for now? [22:35:23] also: both hannes + adam are on the usabilityteam alias [22:35:25] margin-left: 1.5em; padding-left: 24px; background-image: url(pencil icon path); background-position: left middle; background-repeat: no-repeat; [22:35:32] not to be confused with the usability alias ;) [22:35:46] Remember this has to look decent on Monobook too [22:35:48] *RoanKattouw tries the space [22:35:51] let's do it in CSS on all skins [22:35:56] his patch affected all skins [22:36:04] lets just add that margin to all skins [22:36:10] the padding and icon to vector as well [22:36:24] Let's still do the space for text browsers [22:37:53] Done; looks a bit better now [22:38:43] TrevorParscal: OK, will do the CSS. Can you give me that icon in the meantime? [22:39:20] let me dig it up [22:40:24] Just to be clear: non-Vector skins just need margin-left: 1.5em; ? [22:43:25] yes [22:44:14] TrevorParscal: There's skins/vector/images/edit-icon.png , is that the one? [22:44:49] replace that one with the one I just sent [22:44:51] i just email you one [22:48:52] Ah we want to remove the brackets [22:53:03] Gah I gotta delve pretty deep into core to remove those brackets conditionally [22:57:47] you could do it the hacky way [22:58:00] make the section edit span have white text and the link have normal blue text [22:58:18] of course headings rendered on different backgrounds would show the white brackets... [22:58:19] :( [23:01:04] I've already figured out how to do it cleanly [23:01:12] The only thing is it explodes in RTL [23:01:56] Ah, padding-left needs a @noflip [23:02:16] no, it needs to flip [23:02:25] along with float: left being flipped to float: right [23:02:31] I think... [23:02:32] hmmm [23:04:50] noflipping padding-left works [23:04:53] There's no float on there [23:06:10] I have no idea why that's what it needs, I just played around in Firebug [23:06:23] Without it the pencil would be on top of the edit link [23:06:29] Which reminds me, the pencil is not clickable [23:07:12] And now it is :) [23:07:34] *RoanKattouw notices this job has increased his CSS skills [23:12:17] TrevorParscal: It works! http://prototype.wikimedia.org/sandbox.3/Main_Page [23:19:43] hi TrevorParscal and RoanKattouw [23:20:07] i was just watching a couple of videos from our study and noticed that the "Insert" box that we've moved to the toolbar as special characters is still present [23:20:23] what do we need to do to get rid of that? [23:21:55] parutron: Convince the community [23:22:16] We could do some smartness and remove it only if the new toolbar is being shown [23:22:19] are they asking to be convinced somewhere do you know? [23:22:29] i'm into this smartness ;) [23:22:41] I think [[MediaWiki talk:Edittools]] [23:23:01] The smartness could work too [23:23:34] Still, that would best be done in site JS [23:23:50] Especially since the details of how that insert box is done varies per wiki [23:25:01] is there an issue with using siteJS? [23:26:45] No, except that the community might disagree [23:26:53] Or take offense to us just doing it without asking [23:27:01] I'd support just doing it :) [23:27:16] me too [23:27:34] but lets just do it when they have enabled our toolbar [23:27:37] yes? [23:27:49] would suck if someone used it and didn't have our toolbar... [23:29:43] Aye, that's why [23:30:12] we want to do smartness in site JS rather than throw the entire thing out the window [23:30:20] The latter would definitely infuriate people [23:30:53] parutron: Screenshot of the font issue I mentioned @ http://usability.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Screen-kerning.png ; still want me to send an e-mail to usabilityteam? [23:31:17] definitely. is there something stopping us from doing the smartness in JS? i'm assuming time? [23:31:24] blech! thanks so much Roan [23:31:33] i'll grab it and send it out to hannes + adam, thanks [23:32:04] Yes, time is one thing. There's a lot of wikis using it, and they probably have 3 to 5 different ways of doing it between them [23:33:00] Permissions and stuff is all good; we're all members of the global staff group, which gives us admin powers on all (public) Wikimedia wikis [23:35:27] TrevorParscal: Just so you aren't surprised by this: I still have to add the margin-left: 1.5em; on non-Vector skins, but I'll do that tomorrow [23:39:10] k [23:49:32] RoanKattouw and TrevorParscal also noticed that when users used the insert link dialog twice, the text they had entered the first time shows up in the open text fields the second time. [23:49:40] just tried it again on my talk page and the same thing happened. [23:49:59] Yeah; I figured that's intended behavior for when you accidentally close it [23:50:04] we need to reset them i guess? [23:50:07] Although arguably it should be wiped when you click insert [23:50:13] yeah. [23:50:14] But not when you close without inserting [23:50:17] wipe post "click insert"