[18:24:01] do we have a meeting at 11 or did you already start at 10? [18:29:20] hannes-_-: pretty sure it's at 11 and that we're just doing it on IRC [18:29:52] ok thx adam. i just got that second mail from naoko saying that we meet mondays at 10 [18:30:05] i guess thats from now on - but not today [18:55:11] hi nkomura [18:56:58] hello TrevorParscal [18:57:32] hi [18:59:31] hi werdna [19:00:04] hi team. [19:00:06] hi werdna [19:00:42] hi everyone [19:01:10] Let's start our meeting [19:01:32] i don't see Roan though [19:02:03] hi [19:02:06] he just sent an email, so he's probably close to the internet [19:02:36] k [19:02:49] all the usability team is in USA? [19:03:11] hi team people [19:03:22] basically i want us to discuss release schedule of acai enhancements [19:03:35] fajro: no, we have a contractor in the netherlands as well [19:03:39] which was scheduled last week, but got postponed due to fundraising work [19:04:17] then change the PST to UTC [19:04:39] fajro - hannes-_- is in germany [19:04:40] fajro: the team has been informed the time [19:04:45] so it is fine [19:05:02] all our developers are belong to fundraising [19:05:15] tee hee [19:05:31] so in terms of acai enhancements status [19:05:49] does anyone have a burning issues/ show stopper? [19:06:12] so Fred and I are going to try and take up the work Trevor's doing and see if we can free him up more. I mean, in an ideal world him and I would both be back to work but if we can only free one of us up, I think it'd be better if he were [19:06:42] oh yeah, fred is back! [19:06:54] *fajro is testing the demo [19:06:58] i am hoping we can release on November 18th [19:07:09] can we quickly recap what we ARE deploying? [19:07:14] just to be clear [19:07:18] watch/unwatch [19:07:22] cascading tabs [19:07:39] nimish's front end of click tracking [19:07:43] new icons in the toolbar [19:07:59] The preview tab is great :) [19:08:37] I've been disconnected for a bit, but have the issue with the tabs been resolved? [19:08:57] the issues being the strange ping-pong animation thing that Parul noticed [19:09:03] done [19:09:08] fajro: we are not releasing what's on demo [19:09:11] all of the issues i presented have been dealt with [19:09:17] release candidates are on prototypes [19:09:17] I haven't gotten a chance to stage the front end on any machine yet...a slight problem being that everything in deployment is doing dates differently from our test machines (I had to change it for MySQL 4 last week) [19:09:21] but i wasn't on top of *all* of the issues that had been brought up [19:09:39] parutron: I think the biggest issue we saw with the tabs was the bouncy thing you found, if I remember right [19:09:50] adam_miller: did you encounter any issues in tabs? [19:09:56] the german prototype is not up top date, huh? [19:10:07] that's fixed (and reflected on prototype). i dare you to get those tabs to bounce! [19:10:32] there's no issues with tabs that haven't been fixed [19:10:39] don't tempt me, I have firebug [19:10:53] sounds like we are all set for those features [19:11:05] hannes-_-: it is [19:11:05] there was one other small issue i'm not sure have been fixed [19:11:10] do you see problems? [19:11:12] but it's not a show stopper. [19:11:30] do we have the prototype.wikimedia.org/deployment setup to reflect these proposed changes? [19:11:32] when i watch/unwatch a page, the new tooltip doesn't load right away [19:11:37] it switches back to monobook when I click random article [19:11:56] TrevorParscal: all prototypes have deployment branch right now [19:12:15] and calcey has tested those sites? [19:12:23] *TrevorParscal asks allot of questions [19:12:37] ok, let's step back [19:13:04] k [19:13:07] as deployment branch has lots of changes, I asked roan to stage deployment on our prototypes for all languages [19:13:19] calcey ran two rounds of testing so far [19:13:35] focusing on acai enhancements and babaco updates [19:14:13] german prototype may suffer usability when the resolutions are scaled down below 800 x 600 [19:14:36] but i don't think we need to hold up the release due to very limited usage by users who use 800 x 600 or less [19:14:51] let's discuss by one feature at a time [19:15:19] i should add that calcey only test english and sinhala prototypes [19:15:33] so we need to identify any issues for the rest of the languages [19:15:49] so for watch/unwatch [19:15:52] i think we are good to go [19:16:08] adam_miller: any issues that you are aware of? [19:16:43] just that one that parutron just mentioned about the tooltip not loading right away, but i haven't checked that out yet [19:18:13] for me it loads fast enough [19:18:26] but the tooltip is the same whether the status of the star [19:18:51] shouldn't it be a different tool tip based on the status of watch/unwatch [19:19:00] that's the issue.... [19:19:17] so the feature is there, but not showing up? [19:19:30] it should reload on click. if you refresh, you do get the updated tooltip....but not right after the click. [19:20:23] refresh changes it [19:20:52] adam_miller: will you file an enhancements case to yourself so that we can keep track? [19:21:02] sure thing [19:21:45] team, here's the link to the status just in case you don't have the link handy [19:22:01] http://biturl.cc/6oA [19:22:07] so cascading tabs [19:22:34] hannes-_-: you were saying something about german prototype [19:22:57] if I click "random page" it switches back to monobook [19:23:04] is that because I am not logged in? [19:23:08] yeah [19:23:13] will you clear the cookie? [19:23:19] it did for me too over the weekend [19:23:20] thats stange [19:23:29] why do I see vector in the first place than? [19:23:46] we inherited the prototype from deployment staging [19:23:52] it should go away [19:24:15] k [19:24:27] so the only concern i have for cascading tabs is overlapping tabs when the resolution is below 800x600 [19:24:38] German prototype suffer it is the most [19:24:59] hi parutron [19:25:00] adam_miller had a suggesting that we can drop more tabs when it happens [19:25:10] i think we can consider that in the future [19:25:15] but we are good to go as is [19:25:18] is it ol for 800? [19:25:23] ok for 800? [19:25:37] not for german [19:25:48] but it is very very close, huh? just 4px? [19:25:51] i also thought dealing with german (long languages) might be the best way to go.....rather than sacrifice experiences in other languages. [19:26:00] but howief pointed out that 800x600 users are very small portion [19:26:12] yes, it's about 0.3% of users of dewiki [19:26:18] so i really wouldn't hold up the release for this [19:26:20] in our beta? or overall? [19:26:34] this is based on the beta responses [19:26:37] looking at de.prototye [19:26:56] at least tabs are not cutting into the log as it used to last week [19:27:05] but the edit tab is cut off [19:27:24] that's < 10 people! [19:27:32] given our numbers. [19:27:39] yes [19:27:48] and it is worse with monobook, isn t it? [19:28:01] hannes -_-: sorry was writing an email, but to answer your question earlier, just b/c you see vector initially it doesn't necessarily mean vector is running unless you're logged in [19:28:06] i think it works fine with monobook [19:28:40] there s a donation messages that overlaps the tabs [19:28:58] hannes-_-: link? [19:29:59] just german WP [19:30:02] de.wikimedia.org [19:30:37] TrevorParscal: not releasing your new search box turns out to make cascading tabs work less gracefully [19:30:43] i hope we can get on it soon [19:31:21] adam_miller: speaking of german wikipedia [19:31:32] nkomura: me too [19:31:36] i think we are close [19:31:38] me three! [19:31:51] we just need to do one more design revision - revising the "containing... " stuff [19:31:51] tab lines are cutting through the line on my browser http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Hauptseite [19:32:14] nkomura: i committed a fix for that weeks ago [19:32:51] nothing is released yet, so that is another reason to make the release really soon ;) [19:33:39] hannes-_-: i see the problem [19:33:51] but i think it is because of the log-in issue as nimish_g pointed out [19:34:10] let's not worry about it now as the donation link goes to the foundation page [19:34:24] any other issues for tabs? [19:34:58] so the toolbar [19:35:20] as we are doing universal upgrade, i don't see expect any issues [19:35:52] i had some issues with the toolbar features and IE7 [19:36:01] which was? [19:36:15] Bold/Italics not working propertly [19:36:23] also TOC was not working for IE7 [19:36:30] I was working with Roan on these, but not sure where he is [19:36:31] and the cursor was all over [19:36:45] Yes - I believe that's all part of the same set of issues in IE7 [19:36:47] do you still see in en.prototype? [19:37:05] yes [19:37:07] just confirmed [19:37:30] confirmed not working right? [19:37:49] was there a bug filed do you know? [19:37:54] yes [19:37:54] hannes-_-: i think you are the only other one in this meeting that's got IE [19:37:58] the bug was filed [19:38:03] yeah, sad to say [19:38:07] can i get the number please? [19:38:15] I have IE? [19:38:29] haha, maybe not [19:38:30] have to search... dont know where it it [19:38:40] tee hee. [19:39:08] 21492 [19:39:16] https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=21492 [19:39:54] adam_miller: do you mind taking this bug? [19:40:04] it is a show stopper [19:40:37] i'll give it a shot, but if it's a show stopper it'd be better to have roan or trevor on it [19:40:46] i didn't write that code [19:40:50] yeah, we need to keep adam_miller away from the fundraising claws! [19:40:54] fair enough [19:41:09] RoanKattouw! [19:41:13] RoanKattouw! where are you? [19:41:30] i'll fire up parallels and start looking into it until he reappears [19:41:42] thanks [19:41:46] let me know if you need clarification [19:42:21] TrevorParscal and nimish_g are held as hostages by the fundraising team again today... [19:42:54] k [19:43:03] they are feeding us well, but we miss home - please know we are OK [19:43:03] They're treating us nicely. if all of their demands are met and no one makes any trouble, we might get to see our team again soon [19:43:42] we are waving yellow scarves [19:44:05] hannes-_-: are you happy with the new toolbar? [19:44:40] howiesf: do you have IE7 on your work machine? [19:44:49] yes [19:44:50] roan's heading improvements are working nicely [19:45:01] howief: don't say that [19:45:12] they will keep you as hostage too! [19:45:22] oh sorry -- it's at home [19:46:15] so nimish_g, it would be nice if we can see the interface of click tracking before the release [19:46:28] but if you don't have the right staging area [19:46:34] we can wait until the release [19:46:36] and even nicer when we can see it after the release! [19:46:51] yay. [19:47:00] so aside from IE7 problem with bold/italic, [19:47:05] we are good to go [19:47:10] i like the toolbar - the only issue is this boucing effect I mentioned several times before [19:47:25] what is the bouncing effect? [19:47:26] you know what - i got the bouncing effect too. [19:47:43] but i realized some of it is due to the text moving due to the extra chars [19:48:05] hmm.. maybe paru... let me check [19:48:28] ok, I'll see what I can do with that, but there won't be any useable data on any of the development machines...the date format we use on staging is different from the date format we used on staging. So, I can have the UI up for you on one of the staging machines but it'll be blank b/c the data isn't in the right format on those machines and it might take me a while to fix that. might not be worth it [19:49:09] nimish_g: no worries then [19:49:19] so if i make a new line and press bold thew whole text in the editor jumps one line upwards [19:49:21] let's just review it once it is launched [19:49:47] the date format we use in deployment is different from staging I mean, sorry [19:50:41] hmm hannes-_- maybe then we are talking about different issues.... [19:50:54] hannes-_-: i can't reproduce that [19:51:00] on my FF 3.0 [19:51:28] wow.. now - after a couple of tries - it really jumps a lot [19:51:35] like serveral lines at once [19:51:52] what browser are you using? [19:52:04] im a using FF 3.5.5 [19:52:15] on windows? [19:52:24] I ll try to screenshot that effect [19:52:32] great [19:52:41] will you file a bug instead of email? [19:53:16] i did discover one concerning bug which was the opt-in process [19:53:46] ok [19:53:55] TrevorParscal: do you know if there was a change in opt-in user flow in last 4-6 weeks? [19:54:38] there hasn't been any work on that, aside form Roan working on fixing a bug [19:54:53] that had to do with a case that I think you identified [19:55:08] k [19:55:27] right now if you log in after attempting to opt-in [19:55:33] the page takes a user to log out [19:55:35] to do with creating an account and it would take you back to the yes or no page rather than a success page, even though it had already done the changes, and then clicking yes would toggle it or something [19:55:38] so it is pretty broken [19:55:59] TrevorParscal: that's another one [19:56:16] we need to look at what's been changed and see if it affected the flow, cause it used to work right, we tested all scenarios months ago [19:56:20] something must have changed [19:56:24] so i am fine separating deploying the fix for opt-in process [19:56:48] i agree we need to test the flow by user case [19:57:13] if roan can come up with a sound fix, we can roll it out [19:57:40] so it is too bad roan couldn't make the meeting today [19:57:51] as we need his schedule availability to determine the release date [19:58:33] but if the toolbar bug is resolved today or tomorrow, i want to shoot for the release on November 18th [19:59:55] 6pm UTC (10am PST, 1pm EST, 5pm CET) [20:00:42] so for the release, i'd like TrevorParscal be available and possibly adam_miller too [20:01:02] i need to check in with if Roan is available that time [20:01:57] any concerns about the date and time? [20:02:08] works for me [20:02:34] (not that it matters) but sounds good to me ;) [20:02:46] i really hope both TrevorParscal and nimish_g will be released after today [20:03:19] *TrevorParscal works faster! [20:03:20] me too [20:04:00] k [20:04:11] so i will check with roan's schedule and get back to you all [20:04:28] we do have a meeting scheduled tomorrow to discuss upcoming release and beta feedback [20:04:39] i'll confirm that via email too [20:04:46] thanks everyone [20:05:02] can anyone tell me how excaclty to fill a bug report? it s at https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/enter_bug.cgi right? [20:05:45] hannes-_-: go to MediaWiki extension [20:05:58] and file it under UsabilityInitiative as a component [20:06:04] the rest should be self-explanatory [20:06:09] got to run [20:06:10] bye [20:06:18] https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/ [20:06:39] heh you should add windows 7 [20:06:49] truth hannes-_- i usually don't file a bug report and pass on my issues to roan, trevor, or adam [20:07:06] but i do respond to ones that roan includes me on, etc [20:07:21] you'll need an account (if you don't have one already) [20:07:31] i have one [20:07:37] never used it though [20:07:57] it s not convenient for me - but I see the advantage for the developers [20:08:48] i wish i had all the ways to file a bug report effectively, but i don't. adam_miller do you? [20:09:09] yeah i just filed one for that watch/unwatch tooltip [20:09:13] a description of the problem, filed under "UsabilityInitiative".....that's all i've got for you [20:09:37] oh and you can include relavant peeps on the bug (assignment and intersted parties) [20:09:54] that's useful. roan and trevor include me on bugs that are less software/more experience..... [20:17:01] ok i submitted that bug [20:17:09] it will be send to trevor? [20:29:23] did you include roan too? [20:30:17] do I have to include everyone manually? [20:30:33] I jsut sent it to the default adresses [20:45:09] nkomura: Sorry for not reporting I couldn't make 11 am this morning, I only got home just now [20:58:55] hannes-_-, parutron: There's no need to explicitly include me on a bug report. I'm subscribed to the wikibugs-l list so I get all bugmails by default [20:59:19] hi RoanKattouw! yay, we missed you this morning. [20:59:28] Yeah I just read the logs [20:59:36] I was out all day, just got back 30 mins ago [21:00:31] welcome back. i think naoko was hoping you would be available this wednesday [21:00:33] for the release. [21:00:51] Yeah, I just e-mailed her back saying that time was perfect [21:01:04] It makes a lot of sense, and I'd come up with it myself too [21:02:34] this time we have roan to deploy updates [21:02:47] so I don't have to be around for you guys to beg :P [21:03:12] Yes, that works a lot beter [21:03:17] +t [21:03:42] And to top it off I may take some site requests from Rob in December [21:20:06] Did nimish_g 's ploy to keep TrevorParscal out of fundraising work work? [21:22:08] RoanKattouw: not really, it looks like I'll be needed in a seperate miniproject [21:22:38] sigh [21:27:17] hey RoanKattouw, sorry about the short notice of the meeting today [21:27:49] No worries; did you decide on Wednesday 10 AM yet? I'll be around at that time [21:28:02] if you can, we are good to go [21:28:09] we need to discuss three things though [21:28:28] 1) there is a blocker bug - the toolbar in IE7 [21:28:44] Yes [21:29:11] I have IE available at my university, so when I'm over there tomorrow I'll look at it [21:29:15] adam_miller started debugging for you [21:29:44] Hm yeah I think I know where the problem could be, [21:29:55] adam_miller: If you're still around and still debugging that, poke me, I have some ideas [21:30:24] 2) opt-in process [21:30:42] That's fixed now, I'm pushing the fix [21:30:48] (to the prototypes that is) [21:30:49] RoanKattouw: getting back to it. I've got my IE6 testing env on this machine, working on cloning it to install IE7 on a different virtual machine [21:31:11] i'll let you know when i have it up and can debug it [21:31:15] adam_miller: OK, no rush then. I won't be around for much longer, so I'll take a stab at it in the morning [21:33:48] RoanKattouw: back to opt-in flow [21:33:59] were there any revisions in acaifix earlier? [21:34:14] i'm puzzled why the flow on prototype behaves differently [21:34:51] I don't know, but it should be fixed in a second [21:35:08] k, [21:35:11] There [21:35:24] what's the build number? [21:35:32] r59149 [21:35:46] let me try in a sec [21:35:49] 3) code review [21:36:01] i believe tim is out today [21:36:11] I just deployed fixes for the returnto userlogout bug and the leave beta page after opting in an already opted-in account [21:36:13] Hm [21:36:16] so we need to ask either brion-away or tim to do the final code review [21:36:31] Yeah [21:36:35] There's about a dozen revs left [21:36:37] All small ones [21:36:45] better to have all the fixes in before the review though [21:36:50] so that we can ask all at once [21:36:55] Yes [21:37:06] There's at least this IE fix that's upcomign [21:38:13] and may i ask you to minimize the number of revisions? [21:38:32] What do you mean? Throw more stuff in one rev? [21:38:32] if you check-in something not working, it is better to revert and check in the final commits [21:39:04] i'm asking you to make rev easy to understand by reviewers [21:39:19] If this a concrete complaint from reviewers or just from you? [21:39:20] as we haven't keeping brion and tim in close loop latetly [21:39:23] yes, reviewing code is a pain in the ass if there are like 4 revisions for the same thing [21:39:36] it is from me [21:39:45] when the last 3 are fixes to the first one. [21:39:47] it also minimize the QA work too [21:40:02] Yes, I know, that's annoying, and I slap myself when that happens [21:40:29] so let's respect everyone's time and make everyone's work easy [21:41:02] Of course; I don't believe there's anything like that in the current batch though, except for one trivial one [21:41:11] (where I forgot to add parentheses) [21:41:30] if there is one, please fix it ;) [21:42:11] That would just be confusing IMO, there's two followups that are both one-line changes [21:42:53] Reverting a huge feature because it's broken and putting it back in when it works, sure, that happens, but for one-line revs it's just revspam [21:43:44] you know better, so i will leave that decision up to you [21:45:12] adam_miller: I'll give you some of my thoughts on the IE show-stopper bugs in private [21:45:34] ok, cool - i just got IE7 up and running and i can def confirm the bug [21:45:53] any idea how to debug problems in IE7? [21:45:57] it's an ajax error [21:52:46] werdna: use IE8 [21:52:58] with IE7 "compatibility mode" [21:53:19] hi mdale! [21:53:22] o rly [21:53:46] you can still use the IE8 debuger as far as I understand (even in IE7) debug.. in practice most errors transcend versions... just with better details about the error in IE8 ;) [21:53:48] well I don't have IE8. All I can do so far is steal my gf's laptop and use IE8 there [21:53:49] hi parutron [21:54:07] will get windows whenever my pay comes through to un-overdraw my bank account :D [21:54:08] ... or run it in virtual box ;) [21:54:10] i've been having some issues uploading videos to commons and (for lack of someone more appropriate to ask) i was wondering if you could help me out. [21:54:33] sure [21:54:44] btw, i successfully used firfogg to encode all my files as .ogv! [21:54:46] yippeee! [21:54:53] i did not, however, write a script. [21:55:59] but now that i have them (ogv files that are about 375MB), i can't get them on commons or on our wiki. [21:56:03] thats oky next time :) [21:56:10] that a big file [21:56:20] yes. [21:56:22] too big? [21:56:54] parutron: If you can upload them someplace, I can import them by hand [21:57:16] i tried letting them upload repeatedly at the end of the day, but i'd come back to a still spinning thingy......i now (of course) forget what the message is. but it was something that led me to believe that the upload never initiatited [21:57:24] that would be awesome. [21:57:37] RoanKattouw: do you have access to our server? [21:57:40] aside from the upload restriction (which RoanKattouw can get around) ... there is still bug 19476 which I don't think anyone has pushed the update out for. [21:57:41] Yeah there's some hard upper limits on file size, and one of them is 100 MB I believe [21:57:53] ah. [21:57:57] parutron: Yes, that's also how I'm gonna deploy our code on Wednesday [21:57:57] i figured it was that. [21:58:18] i can easily put them in our shared folder there (we asked steve to create one for just this purpose) [21:58:28] it's not quite up and running as of last thursday. [21:58:32] but should be either today or tomorrow. [21:58:51] Shared folder? I'm not sure I can reach that from the outside [21:58:58] what is bug 19476 [21:59:26] I would recommend re-encoding to smaller file / bitrate if you can.. or breaking things into multiple files if it makes sense... [21:59:34] https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20677 [21:59:45] i mean https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19476 [21:59:50] mdale: For getting that reviewed and deployed, talk to Tim [22:00:44] RoanKattouw: ... yea... I have pinged him once or twice ... but need to be more persistent I guess. [22:01:25] (well or Brion of course, but he's not in much) [22:02:03] would it be easier to upload them to our usability wiki than to commons? [22:02:12] No [22:02:32] hm, so even if i get them to you RoanKattouw, they have to be < 100MB? [22:02:39] No, not necessarily [22:02:44] (i will ask steve about access to the shared drive for you) [22:02:47] I can go into the servers and circumvent the limit [22:02:51] oh sweet. [22:03:08] I don't necessarily need access to that drive myself as long as zwinger has access to it [22:03:12] breaking the rules! [22:03:19] speak of the devil, he's around [22:03:24]