[16:13:20] thedj: The finding jQuery problem could be due to Tim's removal of js2stopgap.js from trunk. I restored it a few days ago, see if it'll work with a more recent version of trunk [16:21:54] RoanKattouw: nope. [16:22:01] require_once("$IP/extensions/UsabilityInitiative/Vector/Vector.php" ); [16:22:04] require_once("$IP/extensions/UsabilityInitiative/WikiEditor/WikiEditor.php"); [16:22:23] and enableJS2 set. [16:22:28] Aah [16:22:30] Disable JS2 [16:22:30] would i need anything else ? [16:22:42] ah ... [16:23:54] JS2 was taken out of trunk and put in a branch, so enableJS2 doesn't do anything except tell UsabilityInitiative that it can be lazy [16:26:14] hmm, new preview and publish looks nic [16:26:46] i'm sure a lot of folks will hate it, but it will certainly make it easier for my mother. [16:26:57] You just summed up the spirit of this project [16:27:41] i'v been playing with SocialProfile [16:27:56] i think something like that might be useful as well. [16:29:05] avatar + some basic personal info [16:29:37] remove friend and foes in favour of automatic "neighbours" (like in last.fm) and that might really be something. [16:31:06] In reply to what you said on identi.ca about this neighbors feature: which pages people are watching is private data [16:31:40] hmm, good point. [16:31:58] so it could only be based on edithistory.. [16:32:23] anyway, it was just a thought I had when using last.fm [18:28:29] TrevorParscal: Is it OK if I claim the completion of the context.fn text selection methods? (i.e. is no one else working on it?) [18:28:40] yes [19:22:40] adam_miller: you around? [19:22:46] right here [19:23:47] TrevorParscal: what's up? [19:28:08] so, the TOC stuff, if you want to get the ellipse working properly [19:28:22] you should do the padding on the div span not the div [19:28:41] the div gets measured, and if there's padding, the measurment is usually wrong [19:29:45] oh right, forgot about that issue - i'll give that a shot [19:30:44] TrevorParscal: Did you hear about the bug where IE5 severely messes up the IE6 child selector hack? [19:30:52] when you call autoEllipse on an element, the text is encapsulated in a span even if the ellipse doesn't occure [19:31:18] RoanKattouw: IE5 hmmm IE 5.? [19:31:30] https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=21603 [19:31:33] 5.5 seems to work fine for me, but yes, 5.3 (on mac) is busted [19:31:43] 5.0 [19:31:49] ok [19:31:53] Reporter says IE < 5.5 treats > as , [19:32:05] we don't have any interest in supporting anything less than 5.5 [19:32:07] So .foo > a { some style; } [19:32:32] Agreed, but we can prevent totally messing up the entire page for IE < 5.5 [19:32:55] him, and the 7 other people using IE 5.0 can either use monobook or upgrade their browser... [19:33:55] hmm [19:34:14] ok - so, let's devote an equal amount of time to this as their userbase represents... [19:34:24] crap, we already blew our time limit.. [19:34:30] he he he [19:34:40] heh [19:34:45] it's sort of tough to fix things in 30 seconds [19:35:16] RoanKattouw: did you see that the i18n of the dialogs is all screwed up in production? [19:35:22] No? [19:35:35] Production = wikipedia? [19:35:42] yes [19:35:55] click on the link, table or search dialogs on wikipedia [19:36:02] Hm [19:36:08] *RoanKattouw is explaining physics to his sister right now [19:36:10] Will get on it after [19:36:24] k [19:36:38] *werdna will explain physics to RoanKattouw's sister, if that will free him to do work [19:45:14] Ha [19:45:34] If you run for the Eurostar you can make the early morning train and be here at 5:30 ;) [19:49:40] RoanKattouw: have you noticed that the dialogs in head are sort of broken - as in you can't interact with the controls in them.. sometimes the clicks go through but... it's sort of strange [19:49:45] in FF 3.5 [19:50:30] TrevorParscal: Read scrollback, I slapped you with that bug in either #wmfstaff or #mediawiki_security [19:50:42] The fix is to set $wgUsabilityInitiativeResourceMode = 'combined'; [19:50:46] Ah, 'minified' [19:51:00] ? [19:51:33] yes [19:51:35] I see the bug [19:51:36] ok [19:51:37] sorry [19:51:52] gosh, dialogue texts are broken across all languages [19:52:25] RoanKattouw: if you could help me to identify what happened with the dialogs on wikipedia [19:52:32] that would be top priority [19:52:39] we need to trace the problem and apply the problem asap [19:53:10] Including English? [19:53:20] s/problem asap/solution asap ? [19:53:38] RoanKattouw: yes, have you checked it yet? [19:53:40] TrevorParscal: s/edittoolbar-/wikieditor-toolbar- in some file [19:53:49] the toolbar I18n is ok, but the dialogs are not [19:54:21] Where some file = wmf-deployment/...../EditToolbar.js [19:56:39] can you go ahead and do that then? [19:56:52] how exactly did this get broken? [19:57:07] because it was working properly when we launched [19:57:20] I did some black magic [19:57:26] ok [19:57:27] To get l10nupdate working again [19:57:54] well, we need to do more testing when things get pushed so this kind of thing doesn't go unnoticed - how long ago was that? [19:58:17] Like last week [19:58:21] I forgot to test those [19:58:32] It happened because they start messages with " rather than ' [19:59:01] ok - well, it would be a good idea for you to email at least us developers on the project like FYI, I pushed some code today, feel free to test [19:59:21] Yeah sorry will do [19:59:23] that would be a minimum - obviously testing it better before pushing is better :) [19:59:27] no worries [19:59:34] I did test quite extensively, just forgot the dialogs [19:59:40] lots of this process is sort of inventing it'sefl over time [19:59:45] Thought they wouldn't be essentially different, overlooked the " vs. ' thing [20:02:45] RoanKattouw: I am on the fence of whether jquery-ui is worth using... [20:02:52] i mean, it's working, so fine - leave it [20:03:08] For what exactly? [20:03:32] but I'm continually unimpressed with it's compatiblity (it wiped out allot of FF versions) and themability (can't get it to look how I want usually) [20:04:00] we are only using the dialogs and resizable components right? [20:04:22] Yes [20:04:27] the resizable stuff works great [20:04:34] the dialogs are clunky [20:04:37] Aye [20:05:04] just a thought [20:05:33] RoanKattouw: when was the localization introduced last week? [20:05:43] Yeah on Black Friday I think [20:05:46] It's being fixed now [20:05:46] I'm sort of wondering how much lighter-wieght out stuff could be if a we did our own dialogs, and just used the jquery-ui resiable thing [20:06:12] adam_miller: TOC MAN! how's it goin [20:06:14] writing the notice about the problem on our main page [20:06:14] g? [20:06:29] the padding fix is committed [20:06:47] what else can TOC MAN work on? [20:07:24] um, the TOC links (which jump to each section) don't change to current when clicked [20:08:01] did you notice it doesn't seem to generate the TOC links at all in safari? [20:08:07] OK guys it should be fixed now [20:13:16] RoanKattouw and TrevorParscal: dialogues look good again for ja and en at least [20:13:35] yeah! [20:14:26] cooold [20:14:31] *werdna makes rude gestures at London [20:14:52] TrevorParscal: About those buttons, I kinda counted on you to space them, I was to lazy to add [20:15:13] i did it this morning [20:15:14] RoanKattouw: please do not update production without informing us, especially when we are on holiday [20:15:15] you saw? [20:15:29] RoanKattouw: thanks for finishing that module [20:15:45] nkomura: Yeah sorry about that [20:16:46] Grr and meanwhile, l10nupdate is not updating it [20:16:52] Let's hope mark will answer my question this time [20:17:10] what's wrong with it? [20:17:58] Well it's not updating our extension messages [20:18:20] svn info on /home/wikipedia/l10n/trunk/extensions/UsabilityInitiative shows it wasn't updated since Nov 19th [20:18:41] And I can't find the cron job that's supposed to be running on hume, which is why I asked mark (--> deafening silence, twice) and now Fred [20:19:51] And I can't svn up it myself because it seems that's been happening as root, which means newly added dirs are root-owned and not writable by me [20:20:55] Wait a minute ... [20:20:59] werdna: Are you a root? [20:21:09] no [20:21:27] Me [20:21:29] h [20:24:15] *RoanKattouw doesn't understand why root has umask 022 instead of 002 [20:50:26] nimishg * r59604 /trunk/phase3/skins/common/edit.js: click tracking for old toolbar [20:50:27] Yay [20:50:54] *RoanKattouw found out how to manipulate the selection in Firefox, does victory dance [20:51:37] TrevorParscal: FYI, I found out how to move the selection in Firefox. I'm gonna play with this on the train tomorrow, and I'll hopefully have working code for it when you start breakfast [20:52:19] RoanKattouw: cool - i'm still working on the best way to get events that occur in the iframe back to the parent frame in all brwosers [21:09:22] werdna: are you still around? [21:15:40] iphoning in bed [21:15:44] but yes :) [21:16:03] what's up? [21:16:26] werdna: Ah, it's 9:15? Bed? [21:16:51] it's cold [21:17:28] What temp? [21:18:28] hi werdna. [21:18:45] dunno [21:18:51] too cold [21:19:06] I'm Australian :P [21:19:43] nkomura: how can i help? [21:19:45] werdna: mac in the blanket sounds like a good idea [21:20:02] it's out of battery [21:20:09] nimish updated the click tracking to track the old toolbar [21:20:12] was watchingfamily guy before [21:20:52] it is two lines of code [21:21:08] i'd be great if you can review them, so that we can deploy it [21:21:19] sure, link me up [21:22:05] *nkomura looks [21:22:43] http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:Code/MediaWiki/59604 ? [21:22:59] right [21:23:09] thanks RoanKattouw. [21:29:08] it looks fine to me [21:29:41] left a comment, but i don't know enough about edit.js to definitively mark ok [21:33:22] thanks werdna [21:34:21] nimish_g: wanna comment about item.sppedTip? [21:34:30] welcome [21:34:43] Already did [21:34:45] nkomura: roan already did [21:35:17] i thought the comment goes downward... thanx [21:35:19] It's used elsewhere in that code, so at least our usage of it won't introduce any new errors :) and from reading the rest of the file I'm pretty sure it's always defined [21:35:22] werdna: yeah, that function already assumes that part of it is defined, so I threw it in with that assumption [21:35:44] nod [21:35:56] ok, i'll mark as ok [21:36:25] nimish_g: what is the threshold you are setting as default for clicktracking the old toolbar? [21:36:28] i have iphone irc push notification, so make sure you ping me if you want me [21:36:42] nkomura: Threshold? Do you mean the throttle? [21:36:50] thanks werdna [21:36:54] yes RoanKattouw [21:36:55] Yay [21:37:08] The throttle is 1:1000 for everything, we don't have separate throttles [21:37:14] Although arguably we should [21:37:21] Want me to deploy that now? [21:37:28] not yet... [21:37:35] it may be too much [21:37:48] ? [21:38:00] will discuss with nimish_g and TrevorParscal [21:38:21] You're afraid clicktracking the old toolbar is gonna drive the servers insane? We're already tracking clicks on the left nav bar, that has a much larger click volume I think [21:40:18] so i learned [21:40:46] RoanKattouw: will you send a quick announcement to private-l that we are enabling this click tracking and we are keeping an eye on it? [21:40:51] OK so do we wanna deploy this right now, or tomorrow? It's running late [21:40:56] Sure [21:41:13] how much longer will you be available? [21:43:17] Ah 20 mins I think [21:45:28] werdna: how much longer will you be around? [21:45:46] I'll e-mail private-l with instructions to disable [21:46:02] Or wait, I'll just put that in the !log message [21:46:39] we might just wait until tomorow [21:46:48] so we can make sure things get sorted properly [21:47:29] let's announce it today, and enable it tomorrow [21:47:34] OK then [21:47:44] so that we are around [21:48:06] We could always take the "if this explodes just disable ClickTracking" line [21:48:30] yeah, but we don't want to ops folks with a fire drill [21:48:38] Ha [21:48:55] hit ops folks i mean [21:49:05] not that i anticipate it is going to be a problem [21:49:10] I'll be around ~2-3h [21:49:46] reachable by irc ping, sms [21:49:47] werdna: I'll be out in a bit. Is it OK if I just sync-file edit.js and DefaultSettings.php and mention disabling ClickTracking in the !log msg? [21:49:59] meh [21:50:31] i won't be around to answer complaings in #wikimedia-tech though [21:51:02] Hm [21:51:12] RoanKattouw: no worries [21:51:26] but it's pretty minor [21:51:49] we do want data this week to finalize the toolbar reorganization [21:51:50] either it breaks the site straight away or it's fne [21:51:59] but it can wait for another 24 hours [21:52:28] we just exposed a bug for a few days, [21:52:41] my mb may be charged anyway, and tim is on soon [21:52:43] so I'd like us to be conservative [21:53:17] True [21:53:20] I'll lay off it then [21:53:44] It is in wmf-deployment and I already ran svn up so if someone happens to run scap in the next 24 hrs it'll be deployed [21:53:56] k [21:53:57] But presumably that person would be around to answer complaints about their scap [21:54:24] RoanKattouw: did you notify private-l for us? [21:54:30] Not yet [21:54:48] don't do that [21:55:06] scap should only apply what i've just donr [21:55:39] it is bad for it to apply someone else's changes too [21:55:41] werdna: Good point, I'll revert locally for now [21:55:53] i agree [21:56:10] it would be bad if it is deployed while none of us is available to answer questions [21:56:17] Aye [21:56:36] This won't help against a full svn up but at least you'd see "U edit.js" and know that's not you [21:57:18] *werdna relinquishes his bed-fort [21:57:26] back to the desk [21:58:17] roan? [21:58:30] werdna: stay warm! [21:58:37] :) [21:59:20] hannes_t: Yeah? [21:59:28] http://usability.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Prototype#Nothing_new.2C_however. [21:59:29] Won't be around for very logn [21:59:38] i just anwerd some og his questions [21:59:47] he is kind of cheeky, huh? [22:01:05] Aarrrgh [22:01:47] TrevorParscal: PLEASE go to http://usability.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Prototype#Nothing_new.2C_however and lay down the official line on this guy [22:06:15] nkomura: did you say your team has a day or two spare in a few weeks? [22:06:28] cya tomorrow [22:07:06] werdna: i think we talked about that when we still had december release scheduled [22:07:14] ah [22:07:19] and you don't have one scheduled now? [22:07:35] but we are now full-force in locking in features for citron which is scheduled mid-January [22:07:56] RoanKattouw: TrevorParscal and nimish_g stepped out for lunch [22:08:18] OK [22:08:22] werdna: what do you need? [22:08:33] did you want to have discussion on LQT? [22:08:55] nkomura: Well, in theory I'd like to get some usability help with LQT at some point in december, but only if you have the spare time [22:09:30] werdna: I'll probably be available in the latter half of December (when I'm out of hours I can pull within my income limit) but I think I'm not the one you want [22:09:54] I'm mostly after help from Trevor/Parul [22:09:56] we are planning to be in the QA around 12/18 [22:10:12] so we may have a breathing room then [22:10:40] but you won't be available in the second half of december right? [22:10:42] okay, but only if you have the spare time [22:10:49] I'm not available from the 20th [22:11:15] I guess I'm gonna be all alone doing shell requests then; I'll break the site and everyone will hate me [22:11:49] yay! [22:11:52] werdna: let's check in end of next week where we are [22:11:59] nkomura: sure [22:12:24] as always, there are still issues [22:12:36] RoanKattouw: no usability production during chrismas holiday okay? [22:12:47] RoanKattouw: have a holiday :) [22:12:54] my christmas holiday is over a month long [22:12:57] Yeah sure I'll take my holiday [22:13:04] But I don't do month-long holidays like werdna [22:13:31] to be fair, I have to finish off western europe, visit Thailand, and get my ass back to Sydney in that timeframe [22:14:02] sounds like a grand plan werdna [22:14:12] okay, i'm going to go get lunch [22:14:17] have fun [22:14:22] ttyl [22:15:38] wernda: Yeah, I would do month-long holidays if that's what they looked like, but I'm not /that/ rich [22:16:33] It's mostly my parents' holiday because both me and my sister have finished school [22:16:34] Ugh this guy is comparing Vector with the Classic (pre-2004) skin, gimme a break [22:16:50] werdna: Remind me, are you gonna go to uni in September? [22:16:56] my mother has never been to Europe at all, my father on one business trip to the UK a few years ago [22:16:59] in February [22:17:00] Oh right, summer in Australia [22:17:06] Ah of course [22:17:14] *RoanKattouw constantly forgets about the hemisphere thing [22:17:43] nod [22:18:29] I'm going to leave London at 5C for Thailand at about 35-40C [22:18:34] will be fun :) [22:18:57] When I get back to Sydney I'll be able to start working outside on my balcony [22:29:32] ha [22:29:41] Crazy Australians and their temperatures [22:29:57] I'm kinda glad that it's on the Southern hemisphere so that if I ever go there, it'll be winter [22:31:37] It'll still be 20 degres or so :P [22:31:43] at least, max temp will be low 20s [22:31:47] Yeah that's doable [22:31:57] About the same as here at that time [22:32:06] in summer the average temps are usually 25 or so [22:32:11] but the extremes are very extreme [22:32:41] Do you ever get negative extremes? [22:32:50] All I ever hear about is 45 C up North [22:33:03] well, the extreme highs are very extreme [22:33:26] Hmph [22:33:32] the extreme lows are.. like... 2C [22:33:34] that would make the news [22:35:02] I guess you need -5 to -10 for that here [22:35:07] by and large, Sydney (at least) has moderate temperatures [22:35:20] in cold weather, you will wear a thin jacket [22:35:32] I've never needed more than two layers [22:35:38] Although around 0 rainfall will freeze up on the roads causing slippiness and traffic jams [22:35:56] nod [22:36:15] Sydney summers can be very average, very nice, or very hot [22:36:25] one new years' day had 46C temperatures [22:36:25] Of course crazy stuff happens, in March '06 (supposed to be near spring) we got 50 cm of snow [22:36:50] That implies nice is neither average nor hot :P [22:36:52] but if you live in Sydney, those times of year you're on holiday, and just about everyone has a pool (or lives near a beach) [22:37:00] it's in between, RoanKattouw :) [22:37:06] heh thought so [22:37:10] I would put it below both [22:37:13] 27-32C would be my sweet spot [22:37:27] Mine is more like 10 deg lower [22:37:51] above 35 you just want to hang inside in the air conditioning or in the pool [22:38:23] Also depends on the climate, I was in Paris one week with 37 C and didn't notice anything, while the next week 26 C on the Dutch North Sea coast killed me [22:39:05] it depends on the humidity usually [22:39:27] Aye [22:39:28] I've just about died in 30C weather in Florida [22:40:10] *RoanKattouw gets some sleep [22:40:17] goodnight RoanKattouw [22:40:19] hi werdna [22:40:26] when do you go on holiday? [22:40:27] hello aude [22:40:32] 20th of december [22:40:58] you still have more time to enjoy london [22:41:50] "enjoy" is being used in the loose sense in this weather ;) [22:41:58] but yes, I will miss London's restaurants [22:42:03] and usable public transport [22:42:35] i like both extreme cold and extreme hot [22:42:47] used to anything [22:43:03] I think what I mostly dislike about London is that there is never a clear sky [22:43:13] that's not good [22:43:24] it's been like that here, a bit the past month [22:45:44] I'm definitely looking forward to an Australian summer. [22:46:05] sounds very nice :) [22:46:15] I timed my return to coincide with Australia Day, which usually consists of alcohol, barbeques, and swimming in the pool, on a 30-35C day [22:46:19] at least, that's the hope [22:46:31] mmm beer and fun [22:47:25] i remember there being plenty of beer on canada day [22:47:32] in july [22:48:28] july 4th in the US tends to be much more kid friendly (e.g. not as much beer) [22:53:32] I don't think there's always that much alcohol [22:53:38] it's a family occasion [22:53:41] (usually) [22:55:38] sounds nice [22:56:51] i remember there being beer gardens when going to see fireworks at the park, then people went to bars afterwards, and it got out of hand sometimes [22:57:18] well it depends on who you are :) [22:57:19] in the US, at least in DC, they don't let you bring beer to the fireworks, yet alone provide it [22:57:24] it's like new years eve [22:57:28] :) [23:43:42] TrevorParscal: Does getCaretPosition work with the iFrame? [23:44:14] adam_miller: TrevorParscal is in a meeting [23:44:31] you're hiding him from us [23:44:39] i think he will be out between 4-4:30 [23:44:40] well that's not allowed is it? [23:44:43] PST [23:44:53] i'm not hiding TrevorParscal! [23:44:56] ok i should still be around [23:45:20] *werdna imagines a TrevorParscal stashed beneath a blanket [23:46:10] no.. the reality is TrevorParscal is locked up in a meeting room for an interview [23:58:34] well that's almost as sinister [23:59:53] why do you say that?