[10:11:53] hi all [10:12:34] is there a good place to point people asking what's happening with the editor? [10:13:05] or lists of features for the present and upcoming releases? [10:13:23] i fiond it a bit hard to explai nto people what exactly is happening wrt usability [10:15:00] hm, i see a feature list for babaco... but nothing wbout what's planned for later [10:22:28] they're just getting going on that stuff I think [10:22:30] hey Duesentrieb, btw [10:22:45] heya :) [13:35:15] Duesentrieb: hey [13:35:22] hi [13:35:31] we are going to publish citron ideas and mockups soon [13:35:45] btw du bist de-WP richtig? [14:04:27] hannes-_-: ja genau :) [14:04:48] bist du in deutschland? ich k??nnte hier einen lokalen ansprechpartner gebrauchen [14:07:11] ja bin ich [14:07:36] wenn du fragen hast.. immer her damit ;) [14:09:07] hannes-_-: bei fraport gab's letzte woche 'nen mediawiki-benutzertreffen von einigen gr????eren firmen. war nicht da, hab aber geh??rt, dass u.a. ??ber verbesserungen am editor gesprochen wurde. w??re sinnvoll, das zu koordinieren. [14:09:15] gib mir mal deine email, dann leit ich dir was dazu weiter [18:31:38] *gulp [18:31:46] Did the entire team just join in 10 mins? [18:32:04] hi RoanKattouw [18:32:18] we have staff meeting 10am every Monday [18:32:26] Ah yes [18:32:28] that's why you see us logging in not [18:32:42] how was your weekend [18:32:57] It was good; holiday weekend over here [18:33:24] oh, what kind? [18:33:42] The precursor of Santa Claus, except on Dec 5 [18:34:22] ah, erik zhate mentioned that [18:34:31] what do you do on that day [18:35:04] crazy dutch people - celebrating santa claus on dec the 5th [18:35:46] I propose making wikimedia projects more usable [18:35:52] Basically it's just kids getting presents from this Santa Claus figure, with accompanying poems; optionally, the adults can draw names and make each other presents in the same way, but we didn't do that this year [18:38:08] nkomura: hi naoko, I talked to daniel kinzler ("d?sentrieb") earlier today. he reported about some very interessting upcoming project in Germany. You also received a mail form him about that. [18:38:47] RoanKattouw: sounds fun, just like christmas here [18:38:54] Prodego: what ideas do you have in mind? [18:39:17] how about a button that will make the encyclopedia write itself [18:39:20] hannes-tank: Is that the 26c3 thing? [18:39:22] that would make things easier [18:39:35] yes, thats part of it [18:39:38] hannes-tank: yes, i thought of you, as you wanted to work on the improvements of article creation [18:39:44] hannes-tank: And call him Duesentrieb, there's a User:D??sentrieb on dewiki too :) [18:40:30] hi werdna [18:40:36] wow, hi! [18:40:44] oops, "wow," was for something else [18:40:47] wow? [18:40:48] tee hee [18:41:04] just saw the bug/thread collapse thing you cc;ed us on [18:41:05] I started to write "wow, photos taken at night with long exposures are awesome" [18:41:07] RoanKattouw: the mail naoko received was from daniel not duesentrieb ;) [18:41:08] and then got distracted [18:41:31] tee hee, mondays! [18:42:04] i seem to have lost my link to your prototype [18:42:10] its been a long time ;( [18:42:49] RoanKattouw: good morning! [18:42:57] Morning [18:43:31] parutron: http://liquidthreads.labs.wikimedia.org/wiki/Feedback [18:44:29] We will need to make click tracking adjustment today [18:44:35] Ah yes [18:44:41] I'm already doing a bunch of shell requests [18:44:50] Taking load from RobH 's shoulders in my free time [18:45:00] I'll do it right after the one I'm doing now [18:45:05] which is why roan is my pal. [18:45:07] parutron, hannes-tank, and nimish_g, do you have enough data for left navigation click tracking? [18:45:30] RoanKattouw: though i will trade those shell requests for my budgeting work anyday =] [18:45:41] RoanKattouw: good for you and RobH [18:46:12] it goes without saying its a nice thing for Roan to do (but dont let my crap drag you behind on anything ;) [18:46:13] I think we do, considering we're basically gonna give reccomendations...parutron, hannes-tank , agree? [18:46:44] yes [18:47:19] OK, I'll prep disabling it then [18:47:44] yup i think we've got enough info to roll out suggestions for english, german, and hopefully japanese [18:48:07] it would be nice to provide data for the rest of the languages to follow in suit........but that can happen later [18:48:09] RoanKattouw: yeah, let's disable left nav and increase the threshold for old toolbar tracking to 1:100 [18:48:12] I didn't think anybody actually used the old toolbar [18:48:15] but maybe that's just me [18:48:27] werdna: actually they are being used [18:48:34] werdna: We've been clicktracking it, so nimish_g ostensibly knows exactly who's been using it [18:48:41] and the initial data was pretty surprising [18:48:45] :) [18:50:44] parutron + hannes-_-, please check the initial click tracking data for old toolbar from nimish_g [18:50:48] he sent it out friday [18:52:57] RobH: Using the table creation dialog? :) [18:56:50] checking now..... [18:57:28] nimish_g: what do you mean you "didn't account for translations" [18:58:02] I mean the clicktracking I used used the tooltip names for the tools, which varies from language to language [18:58:04] wow, interesting. [18:58:12] certainly need way more volume on this [18:58:22] are we doing the old toolbar click tracking in "seessions" too? [18:58:28] yeah, which is why I want to turn leftnav clicktracking off [18:58:31] yes we are [18:59:02] did you send over the latest left nav data by chance? [18:59:26] i think the only left nav data i have is from the first bunch you sent me with the toolbar stats..... [19:01:29] nimish_g: OK so are we good to turn off the old toolbar clicktracking as well? [19:01:35] no! [19:01:44] to answer for nimish_g [19:02:06] Oh [19:02:09] Grmph [19:02:19] RoanKattouw: we want to increase the threshold for the old toolbar from 1:1000 to 1:100 [19:02:33] Yeah [19:02:38] Once I disable the left nav tracking [19:02:43] right [19:05:20] RoanKattouw: I actually edit wikis so infrequently that I have to cheat and use the toolbars for the markup. [19:05:27] Ha [19:05:36] heck, even my sysadmin stuff now is in bugzilla and morebots logs my edits [19:05:36] so [19:05:47] I dont ever edit wikitech for anything but documentation, which is all plaintext. [19:05:54] Office wiki! :) [19:06:05] RoanKattouw: yeah we still want to keep the *new* toolbar clicktracking on [19:06:12] officewiki has my task list, weekely report, and then I cheat and use the toolbar for anything else. [19:06:16] nimish_g, parutron: And the *old* one? [19:06:50] RobH: Out of curiosity, does your contract mention you have to do weekly reports? [19:07:03] not a contractor, so nope [19:07:11] i am an at-will employee [19:07:43] but while the reports are a pain, i am pretty used to it. i used to have some local contracting customers and I would have to prepare a report for when I invoiced them [19:07:47] nimish_g, parutron: For extra clarity: do we or do we not want to disable clicktracking on the old, ancient toolbar we're plotting to throw in the Bay with cement on its legs? [19:07:51] *RobH has dumped those customers due to lack of freetime [19:07:52] we want to have even more "old* toolbar click tracking, bandwidth permitting. i should really just let nimish explain, but it's my understanding that we are going to turn down the left nav tracking (old and new, being much the same!) prior to scaling up this old toolbar tracking....... [19:08:03] Yes [19:08:08] So we still wanna track both toolbar? [19:08:09] s [19:08:17] yes. [19:08:23] nimish_g: wanna chime in? [19:08:53] RobH: OK so you don't officially have to do progress reports but still do them, while it's down in my contract I have to submit weekly reports and I've only ever submitted one concise excuse for one? :) [19:09:14] as far as i'm concerned, i don't think we need that much more click tracking data from the new toolbar for our next steps, but i think generally it's good to keep it going for evaluative purposes...... [19:09:30] OK that's clear enough [19:09:37] Disabling left nav tracking now then [19:10:00] Well, I officially have to do them because Erik asks that I do, and he is my supervisor. But since I am a normal employee, there is no contract to spefically spell out my areas of responsibility, so Erik can technically change them at a whim (though honestly he has not changed my stuff really, I do the same things I did for Brion) [19:10:21] True [19:10:22] RobH: [19:10:24] catrope@fenari:/home/wikipedia/common/wmf-deployment$ svn up [19:10:26] svn: Can't open file '.svn/tmp/entries': Permission denied [19:10:38] hey RoanKattouw can we just wait for nimish_g 's ok. i haven't actually seen the left nav data [19:10:47] but nimish_g did say we're good to go [19:10:59] i'll just keep typing his name, nimish_g 's that is, until he responds [19:11:11] oh that nimish_g [19:11:18] i can see nimish_g at his desk. [19:11:34] parutron: I have no choice ATM, see the error message above [19:12:16] nimish_g give his green flag too [19:12:19] yay. done [19:13:18] RobH: In fact, there are a total of 1830 root-owner files in wmf-deployment [19:13:21] *TrevorParscal hates opera with a passion [19:14:12] Is that Opera, the browser, or the art form? [19:16:10] do you guys manually update .min files or have a script to do that... ( going to commit the js2 rename stuff ... should I commit the min at the same time ?) [19:16:21] RoanKattouw: i think the owner matters little, its the group that should be wikidev (i think) [19:16:22] RoanKattouw: why has the permission been changed? [19:16:54] RobH: Yeah, but in practice most root-owned files don't have the wikidev group. I could count non-wikidevs for correctness, but it won't make a difference [19:17:14] nkomura: Because someone's been running an update as root, which blocks subsequent updates for non-roots until a root comes along and fixes it [19:17:40] RoanKattouw: So they all should be wikidev, right? (that is my impression, but I am not 100%) [19:17:46] Yes [19:17:52] if we are sure thats it, I can do a chgrp on them easily enough [19:17:53] And chmod g+w [19:18:08] OK that's 1826 files then [19:22:29] *TrevorParscal would rather sit through an opera than develop for opera.... [19:22:57] TrevorParscal: What' [19:23:00] s it this time? [19:23:17] just the iframe event stuff still [19:23:33] i'm getting some jquery errors in IE8 btw - did you see them [19:23:46] Are they invalid property errors? [19:25:59] Object Required [19:26:26] jquery.wikiEditor.toc.js line 333 character 4 [19:26:33] and the TOC bombed out [19:26:41] What's on that line? [19:26:54] Could be one of my experiments [19:27:09] Some of that code doesn't even work in Firefox [19:27:13] some traversal code [19:27:18] Oh that [19:27:21] That does work for me [19:27:25] I'll debug it later [19:27:26] var next = p.nextSibling; [19:27:28] k [19:27:30] no worries [19:27:36] I can finally disable the left nav clicktracking now [19:30:20] RoanKattouw: let me know when you are in IE debugging mode - I could use a hand [19:30:48] TrevorParscal: can you comment to mdale's question earlier? [19:31:05] about to commit ;) [19:31:17] not all the min files where updated [19:31:20] mdale: [19:31:22] um [19:31:29] we update them with a Makfile [19:31:38] (11:16:09 AM) mdale: do you guys manually update .min files or have a script to do that... ( going to commit the js2 rename stuff ... should I commit the min at the same time ?) [19:31:43] *TrevorParscal takes the long journey to mdale's desk [19:32:24] Team, just to let you all know we are going to feature freeze for citron this week [19:32:55] Define freeze? [19:33:56] finalize the features to be included in citron release for development [19:34:30] Right but does that mean no more new features or no more major changes or what? [19:34:57] i see a few things we discussed to be included in citron are not getting worked on [19:35:05] Which ones are those? [19:35:12] those need to be either accelerated or postponed [19:35:13] (BTW, clicktracking for left nav is disabled now) [19:35:17] and I'm back... [19:35:50] page vacuming which parul wanted [19:36:23] left navigation reorg is borderline [19:36:44] integration of Drafts and FlaggedRev into workflow [19:37:03] parutron: do you have mock-ups for adam_miller for page vacuming? [19:37:23] vacuuming i mean [19:37:35] yeah, but they're not really implementable [19:37:36] nkomura: i have them, parutron and I should just talk about those things sometime while we're right next to each other [19:37:51] we have the same problem with that gunk under the edit box as we do with left navigation [19:37:51] great [19:37:55] ...and we're now at 1:100 [19:38:09] we'll have to look into what the implementation looks like before we can do another round of design [19:38:09] thanks RoanKattouw [19:38:21] i think adam's looking into it.... [19:38:24] oh! [19:38:25] haha [19:38:28] he's right next to me. [19:38:32] sometimes i'm so forgetful. [19:38:49] Oh right Adam's in the office this week [19:39:01] i said hi for you [19:39:02] ;) [19:40:24] we should go get lunch and bring back to be ready for howie's brown bag [19:41:46] TrevorParscal: I'm gonna fire up IE in 5 mins, lemme know when you run off for lunch [19:46:22] *hannes-_- wavin at adam [19:46:30] hey hannes [19:46:36] hey ho [19:47:22] i know you're here, parutron just misunderstood something i said [19:55:01] TrevorParscal: I hate IE [19:55:03] seriously [19:55:14] me oo [19:55:17] *too [19:55:26] I DELCARE WAR! [19:55:46] on IE [19:57:12] Anyone still using IE at the end of the day will be fired! [19:58:35] TrevorParscal: OK let's kick some ass [19:58:56] IE ass that is [19:59:10] *TrevorParscal starts "The Great IE Revolt of 2009" [20:01:12] RoanKattouw: there's a bug in preview for IE [20:01:21] *RoanKattouw reboots his VM, IE keeps crashing [20:01:26] What's that? [20:01:39] this.0.innerHTML is null or not an object js2stopgap.js line 484 character 3 [20:02:00] Hm [20:02:06] Sounds like an iframe issue [20:05:53] TrevorParscal: First error is easily fixed with var prev = p ? p.previousSibling : null; and similar for next [20:06:02] Will commit later [20:06:11] well, that's not as important as getting the events to bubble up from the iframe in IE and Opera [20:06:21] Chrome, Safari and Firefox work great [20:06:40] OK [20:06:44] So what's the show-stopper in IE? [20:06:45] we will need an IE workaround, which Opera will probably like [20:07:06] Yeah, Opera is very similar to IE [20:07:17] getting events that occur in the iframe like mouseup and keyup to propagate into the main window [20:07:30] by which I mean, trigger some code running in the main window [20:07:39] I don't need actual dom event propagation [20:07:46] just some sort of notification that it happened [20:08:06] RoanKattouw: yes, they both piss me off, and they both support the same buggy interfaces! grrr! [20:08:15] Yeah I understand what you want to happen, but why isn't it working? [20:08:39] What are you currently listening on, the window, document or body? [20:08:46] http://www.webdesignerdepot.com/2009/12/wikipedia-redesign-whats-in-store/ [20:08:51] write-up of your stuff [20:09:00] nkomura: you might wanna check it out :) [20:11:34] As to his suggestions: 1. too much load, 2. planned, 3. nice idea, but possibly out of scope and 4. irrelevant, Go button disappeared in latest redesign [20:12:01] cool... [20:12:08] Oh god.... [20:12:08] 1. is annoying [20:12:13] I HATE INTERNET EXPLORER [20:12:26] $('
').html('foobarbaz').text(); [20:12:32] Nice, right? [20:13:02] Except IE seems to think that such "temporary" not-in-the-main-DOM-yet elements don't have an innerHTML [20:16:30] RoanKattouw: hannes-_- just pointed me to the crazy Q0k guy [20:16:31] tee hee [20:17:53] that was a positive write-up - hooray! [20:24:59] TrevorParscal: About bubbling events in IE: have you tried listening for e.g. keydowns on all elements in the iframe and console.log()ging them? [20:25:28] yes [20:25:44] And what was the result? [20:25:47] No bubbling whatsoever? [20:25:49] nothing [20:26:10] but right now were are using jquery from the parent frame to reach in and bind to elements in the child frame [20:26:34] Ah [20:26:54] the other way would be to use good old event binding on the child frame and then call some event handler on the parent frame - this hasn't worked in previous tests, but may with more tweaking [20:26:57] Does "nothing" mean no bubbling or no events logged at all? [20:27:10] nothing means the event handler never get's called [20:27:17] Ah [20:27:25] sorry, shouldn't have used an apostrophe there... [20:28:02] Where good old binding is the stone age jQuery-less way? [20:28:15] anyways - the third approach (which was used by codpress) is to load an HTML file into the iframe which has it's own copy of jquery in it and there's some standard API between the child and parent iframe [20:28:24] RoanKattouw: yes [20:28:38] The third option would probably work [20:28:54] if you create the iframe using jquery dynamically like we do right now, and then load jquery into that iframe from an external file using a script tag - the browser will bascially blow up [20:29:02] hahaha [20:29:05] so, you have to have a separate HTML file [20:29:20] which changes some state in some dark corner of the browser's code [20:29:38] there's an HTML file in the plugins directory [20:29:44] TrevorParscal: heya. thanks for the mail :) [20:29:46] I have some basic code to get it working [20:29:56] Duesentrieb: howdy [20:30:14] wrote you a lengthy reply [20:31:02] Duesentrieb: saw it - will respond in some length when I get a chance I guess... [20:31:15] :P [20:31:33] basically, we'd love help, but we're super focused on getting specific features done by a specific deadline [20:31:39] basically, i just want to make sure we keep in touch about what's going on, so we don't duplicate effort [20:31:59] yea, i can see that. [20:32:00] so, we can support your work by keeping in touch and helping design things - sharing experiences and lessons learned [20:32:17] and perhaps some code. yea, that would be great. [20:32:34] RoanKattouw: so, I might just re-implement the html file [20:32:40] and that may solve another issue [20:32:47] i guess we'll try to make a poage creation wizard thingy some time next year, as a limited, standalong project, probably contract work. [20:32:49] What's that other issue? [20:32:52] because loading a file into an iframe causes a load event to happen [20:32:57] Ah yes [20:32:59] so then we know for sure when the document is ready [20:33:00] The defer thing [20:33:17] I read about that, a friend of mine pointed me to the iframe's load() event, which does fire at the correct time [20:33:33] and then we can get things like toc to handle this event - and said even handler can live in their evt object [20:33:38] Hopefully that'll also allow us to use context.$content.html() in IE again [20:33:55] $.wikiEditor.modules.toc.evt.load = function() {} [20:34:01] yes [20:34:23] so, I have the code I never commited to avoid massive conflict with you about a week ago [20:34:39] I will integrate some of it - what's needed to get the html file to be used again.. [20:35:02] when would be best for me to do that? [20:35:03] any outstanding uncommited code for jquery.wikEditor.js? [20:35:03] Go right ahead, I have no significant local mods [20:35:08] Lemme peek [20:35:11] k [20:35:35] Some IE fixes I still have to test, gimme 5-10 mins [20:36:21] no worries [20:36:37] i'm in a brown-bag meeting thing, and should probably be paying better attention anyways [20:36:45] heh [20:38:30] ...and IE crashes, again [20:38:39] I even got a BSOD in my VM last week [20:45:17] wow [20:45:43] Kul wants to know if you want to meet for drinks in Madrid Spain [20:45:54] (RoanKattouw) [20:46:10] that's cool :p [20:46:16] or.. Kul [20:46:24] I'd meet Kul for drinks in Spain [20:46:53] Think you could drag Hampton with you? [20:47:03] that lazy bum [20:47:26] haha [20:47:32] I've been meaning to catch him in Cambridge [20:48:04] good luck [20:49:13] I don't know what Kul's life looks like, but most 19-yo students don't fly 2.5 hrs for drinks :) [20:49:31] My place - Madrid is like twice SF-LA, if not more [20:50:18] you can do a few hours from Paris [20:50:29] What do you mean? [20:50:29] well, overnight [20:50:43] train :) [20:51:07] It's mostly the price, not the time [20:51:10] Yeah but getting to Paris takes forever already [20:51:23] Getting to Brussels takes me 5h40 (regular IC, Thalys is probably a bit faster) [20:51:46] I think Paris is like 6-7 hrs by Thalys [20:52:59] Then I need a CityNightLine/TGV/whatever to Spain [20:55:12] :) [20:55:18] I think it's faster for me [20:55:43] Yeah you're way farther South [20:55:50] I'm all the way up in the far North of NL [20:55:56] very nice time waster http://www.inudge.net/inudge [20:58:46] TrevorParscal: Oh wait, I was mistaken on the nature of the IE bug. .html() on $('
') is not the problem, it's context.$content.html() that's throwing the error [20:59:20] RoanKattouw: interesting [20:59:30] I'm gonna let that be and hope that your separate file fix fixes it too [21:01:19] Where in the world is Kul Wadhwa? (http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&source=hp&q=warsaw&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Warsaw,+Mazovia,+Poland&ll=51.876491,21.445313&spn=7.11089,18.676758&t=h&z=6) [21:01:30] well.. in a day or so [21:04:49] Yeah he said something about Warsaw on Twitte [21:04:57] Don't tell me you had to look up where Warsaw was [21:06:35] mdale: Don't do svn add .project please ;) [21:06:47] opps [21:07:10] *TrevorParscal thought Warsaw might have been in Southeast America [21:07:14] he he he [21:07:32] mdale: ...and don't commit conflicts markers [21:07:41] hmm [21:07:44] (in plugins.combined.js) [21:08:11] ooooh - someone was a little hasty in their commits? [21:08:37] werdna: did you still need an icon? [21:08:47] TrevorParscal: that'd be awwwesome if you could [21:08:59] what was it of? down arrow? [21:09:07] like a down arrow for "Add a new reply", as in google wave [21:09:12] yes [21:09:15] right on [21:09:44] mdale: And you svn added jsmin.c, don't do that either [21:09:51] hehe [21:09:54] Conflicts with people who already have jsmin.c locally [21:09:55] http://wiki.werdn.us/test/view/Talk:Main_Page ? [21:10:35] mdale: do you have Attention to Detail Deficit Disorder? [21:10:41] yea...kind of ugly... [21:10:50] *TrevorParscal hides from mdale in fear of physical rebuttle [21:11:10] TrevorParscal: no, that's really old [21:11:15] *TrevorParscal is guity of horrible commits [21:11:22] ( for leaving the analytics meting ? ) [21:11:24] TrevorParscal: it's on liquidthreads.labs.wikimedia.org [21:11:37] TrevorParscal: I have ATDDD [21:12:03] ha ha [21:12:20] that's what testing is for :) [21:12:22] that labs logo looks horrible [21:12:28] yeah yeah yeah [21:12:32] neat idea - horrible execution [21:13:15] yeah yeah yeah [21:13:16] :P [21:13:19] I didn't do it [21:13:23] it's Erik's as far as I kknow [21:17:09] TrevorParscal: do you like the linear thing [21:17:20] yes [21:17:22] i do [21:17:30] i'm very excited about this [21:17:43] I want to spend some more time cleaning up the little bits here and there [21:17:47] nod [21:17:51] but, seriously, you are doing a great job [21:17:52] it's going well I think [21:19:37] TrevorParscal: OK I'm done with my local copy now, you're welcome to go apeshit [21:19:49] I should probably be header to bed soon to [21:19:50] o [21:20:01] awesome! [21:20:27] TrevorParscal: anything in particular you think I should work on? [21:20:59] werdna: some clear things, others I would need to spend more time on to come up with good solutions [21:21:10] well, lay on with the complaints [21:21:13] and I can come up with some ideas [21:21:15] i would put more space (+3px) between Linkto and More [21:21:28] and perhaps move the arrow to the left of more [21:21:32] see how that goes... [21:22:36] anything substantial that needs work? I can do most of this stuff all in one swoop (if it's visual) [21:22:52] but mostly substantial architectural stuff I need to spend a while on [21:24:13] mdale: Did you even test your code? if (!mw) fails with "mw is not defined" in Firefox [21:24:15] Fixing [21:24:22] hmm [21:24:43] (!mw ) has worked for me [21:24:53] Running FF 3.0 , that could be it [21:24:55] typeof mw != 'undefined' [21:24:55] but typeof would be better I guess [21:25:06] There's no way 3.5 tolerates mw.callbcak(); though [21:25:14] ? [21:26:10] mdale: .... and mw.load has two params, it's mw.load = function( deps, callback ) { callback( [21:26:18] ); } [21:26:38] Instead of mw.load = function ( callback ) { callbcak(); /* typo */ }; [21:27:21] opps.. my versions of js2stopgap got confused [21:27:22] Before committing code, read through the diff to spot obvious mistakes like conflict markers and actually test your code [21:28:07] sure.. yea obviously this commit was half backed ;) [21:29:06] And you didn't reminify either [21:29:18] Both fixed now [21:29:29] there are 4 js2stopgaps to keep in-sync :( [21:29:49] js2-work, translate, wiki-trunk & the actual mwEmbed.js [21:29:56] yay [21:29:58] Ha [21:30:06] Guess that explains some things [21:30:16] Translate should just use trunk [21:30:18] As should LQT [21:30:53] and most with manual minification :) [21:40:19] http://usability.wikimedia.org/wiki/Opinion_Dialogs <-- any thoughts? anyone? please comment [21:40:51] werdna: enjoy [21:41:12] TrevorParscal: can they scale up to 20px or so [21:41:36] you want them bigger... hmm [21:41:40] hannes_away: On page 3, is the Latin text the text that's around the table in the page? [21:41:43] I could give you a set that are larger [21:41:48] where'd you get them from? [21:41:50] try the small ones out though [21:41:51] I made them [21:42:09] icons for text links are better in the 16px range [21:42:29] RoanKattouw: YES! [21:43:12] RoanKattouw: it is suppose to look more like a screenshot and less like a preview [21:43:30] Right [21:43:30] look, random people's anecdotal opinions... Can't we build the thing 2 ways and click track the success rate or something? [21:43:39] Bucket testing? [21:43:48] hannes_away: I'm not sure that's technically feasible [21:43:56] I do agree, encapsulating the preview is a good thing [21:43:59] It could be [21:44:26] Yes, I agree with that too [21:44:42] I like page 3 a lot except that I doubt the feasibility of having the actual surrounding text in there, as noted above [21:44:45] but... yeah - gathering opinions on a wiki talk page feels sort of strange to me [21:45:37] werdna: that Add a reply link seems a little large... [21:45:45] TrevorParscal: it's 120% right now [21:45:55] I think it makes sense to be much bigger than the other text [21:46:05] yeah, I think with the icon you will be able to bring it down to 100% without loosing visibility.. [21:46:10] probably gain lots of visibility [21:47:36] maybe [21:47:48] well - either way, set the margin-top of lqt-add-reply to 0.75em [21:48:36] nod [21:48:46] .lqt_toc { width: 100% } plz :) [21:49:34] nkomura: FYI, I may be a little late for tomorrow's meeting, accidentally scheduled something for Tue 5-6 instead of Mon [21:50:08] no problem RoanKattouw [21:50:10] TrevorParscal: I can't do this right now [21:50:18] werdna: no worries [21:50:22] TrevorParscal: Of course to bucket test stuff we have to implement both options first. The big question is preview vs. no preview I guess [21:50:31] can you like stick it all in an email, or do it another time? [21:50:56] werdna: let's just schedule some time for us to pound at the UI a bit [21:51:01] I'm watching a movie, negotiating dinner plans, and figuring out how I'm going to work tomorrow when my housemates have suddenly invited me to their wedding tomorrow [21:51:04] sure [21:51:04] that'd be awesome [21:51:07] I'm sure we can smooth it out proper in like a couple hours [21:51:25] TrevorParscal and adam_miller, will you connect on two CSS revs for RTL and the fix for watch/unwatch balloon text today? [21:51:38] yeah [21:51:39] we should deploy them once you are on the same page on the code review [21:51:41] it'll be aaawesome [21:51:55] werdna: movie has pause, dinner == fish and chips, bring laptop to wedding with tethered cell phone [21:52:19] I want to add some more interface [21:53:08] TrevorParscal: Added our weekly meeting to the usability calendar; you got two confirmation e-mails, ignore the first one [21:53:18] TrevorParscal: we're going to this restaurant called Inameo [21:53:20] Inamo [21:53:31] RoanKattouw: thanks! [21:53:40] you order food through the table [21:53:46] TrevorParscal, nkomura: I have reviewed those Adam revs, still waiting on Trevor's OK before I deploy them [21:53:51] there's a trackpad on the table [21:54:03] And I'm planning to teach Trevor to deploy stuff so I'm not the only guy that can do it [21:54:24] Useful for when I'm, say, on a plane [21:54:42] or hit by a bus [21:55:02] or taken out by the Internet Explorer Hitmen [21:55:26] adam_miller: whenever you have some time to talk RTL css with me - head over... [21:55:28] plz [21:55:47] TrevorParscal: just finishing up some discusssion with hannes on disabled buttons [21:56:09] k [21:56:42] TrevorParscal: Also duplicated the calendar item till Jan 14; they now also show up on Dec 24 and 31 but we'll probably cancel those :) [21:57:08] RoanKattouw: yes - I'm out from the 19th through the 3rd... [21:57:39] That's my official vacation as well [21:58:10] I'm out from December 20 to January 26 [21:58:11] woo [21:59:49] (of course vacation means I'll still be doing volunteer work) [22:04:00] RoanKattouw: yeah - I'm going to try REALLY hard not to work over my vacation this time [22:04:12] ha [22:04:26] You know I have a very simple solution for that [22:04:33] ? [22:04:39] disconnect internet and hide laptop? [22:04:41] cd ~/mediawiki/extensions; svn lock UsabilityInitiative; svn commit; [22:04:47] ha ha ha [22:04:59] (on my box that is, so I get exclusive commit rights) [22:07:29] TrevorParscal: Also, not sure if you caught that, but my plan for tomorrow is that you review Adam's revs (preferably before the meeting tomorrow), and then after the meeting we're gonna deploy them together with me walking you through the deployment process; you already have shell access, right? [22:56:47] were we supposed to have a meeting 56mins ago? [23:05:10] http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:Code/MediaWiki/59806 [23:05:42] TrevorParscal: what meeting are you referring to? [23:05:57] it's on the calendar [23:06:10] WEEKLY: Usability Meeting, Program Check-In [23:06:11] Mon, December 7, 2pm ??? 3pm [23:06:17] in R5 [23:06:20] just curious [23:06:42] ah, that's my one on one with Erik [23:06:48] although we haven't met for weeks