[00:33:48] <thedj>	i was wondering, will we see the SimpleSearch deployed on en.wp at some point ?
[00:35:36] <nkomura>	hi thedj.  yes
[00:35:44] <nkomura>	the plan is to rollout in citron
[00:35:53] <nkomura>	which is scheduled in the second half of january
[00:36:01] <thedj>	k.
[00:36:15] <thedj>	i can tell you now, that many folks won't like it :D
[00:36:28] <nkomura>	why is that?
[00:36:55] <thedj>	i say this based on that the Google custum search does the opposite (only search, not go), and that drew quite a few complaints as well :D
[00:37:20] <thedj>	so i'm guessing the "core" users like having two functions.
[00:38:27] <thedj>	perhaps a "search for more .." element after the go redirect is an idea. (no idea where to put that though)
[00:39:11] <nkomura>	even the list of articles is displayed as you type?
[00:39:15] <thedj>	or an 'alt click' behaviour for the "go" button.
[00:39:23] <thedj>	nkomura: definetly.
[00:39:42] <nkomura>	we still support "go" functionality, it is a different interaction
[00:39:45] <thedj>	nkomura: because titles != content or section headers :D
[00:42:15] <nkomura>	not sure i follow you
[00:43:07] <thedj>	nkomura: If I want to look for all page sections with the header JavaScript, i can't avoid ending up on the page "JavaScript" with the new interface.
[00:43:44] <thedj>	I need to go to [[Special:Search]] by hand if i want to avoid this. Before i would just click the Search button, instead of the Go button.
[00:45:51] <thedj>	so that is a usecase that the advanced users will miss.
[00:47:28] <nkomura>	is the search advanced tip such as including sections documented somewhere?
[00:48:27] <nkomura>	so to make sure i learn this correctly
[00:48:38] <nkomura>	if i wan to search a section for an article
[00:48:51] <thedj>	http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ASearch&redirs=0&search=untrodden+ways&fulltext=Search&ns0=1
[00:49:18] <thedj>	correction
[00:49:19] <thedj>	http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ASearch&redirs=1&search=She+dwelt+among+the+untrodden+ways&fulltext=Search&ns0=1
[00:49:51] <thedj>	In the new interface, I would always be taken to the article [[She dwelt among the untrodden ways]]
[00:50:17] <thedj>	but as you can see, that sententence has many more mentions in wikipedia that I might want to see.
[00:53:04] <nkomura>	isn't that another reason removing "Go" as default search better way?
[00:53:25] <thedj>	i thought Go was becoming the default behaviour ?
[00:53:45] <nkomura>	no, it is opposite
[00:53:58] <thedj>	oh, because the prototype site uses Go.
[00:54:40] <thedj>	anyway, whichever option you take away, SOME advanced users will complain.
[00:54:40] <nkomura>	the auto-fill is not working properly at a moment
[00:55:11] <nkomura>	yeah
[00:55:21] <nkomura>	we need to communicate the change clearly in advance
[00:55:25] <nkomura>	and get more feedback
[00:56:55] <thedj>	nkomura: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Google_Custom_Search
[00:57:03] <thedj>	That is Google Custom Search for Wikipedia.
[00:57:27] <thedj>	And it only has the "Search" feature, no Go feature. And users of the Gadget disabled it because of that.
[00:59:16] <nkomura>	i see
[00:59:27] <nkomura>	thedj: sorry we caused a bit of confusion
[00:59:45] <nkomura>	search on prototypes are not quite at the presentable state yet
[01:00:38] <nkomura>	the plan is to integrate "Go" feature as auto-fill and also "contains" section for more expanded search in one interface
[01:01:15] <nkomura>	it is hard to communicate without working prototype ;)
[01:01:25] <thedj>	yeah, i guess :D
[01:03:03] <nkomura>	search change is a big change, so we will make sure to communicate the change clearly
[01:03:05] <TrevorParscal>	nkomura: someone changed some mediawiki hooks around on us, we had to change which hooks we were using, and now our search suggestion is not turning on - so I will need to work with Roan to get this sorted tomorow..
[01:03:07] <nkomura>	thanks for your feedback
[01:03:22] <thedj>	roger :D
[01:03:35] <nkomura>	TrevorParscal: got it
[01:03:54] <thedj>	good nite all !
[01:04:04] <nkomura>	good nite thedj
[01:04:25] <thedj>	nkomura: btw. read http://www.webdesignerdepot.com/2009/12/wikipedia-redesign-whats-in-store/  sounded positive for an outside view.
[01:04:37] <nkomura>	yeah
[01:04:45] <nkomura>	we saw that earlier today
[01:05:01] <nkomura>	pretty comprehensive coverage including hidden features ;)
[01:06:01] <thedj>	good to see that outsiders have interest for this.
[01:06:28] <thedj>	i mean, that's what you guys are doing this for really :D
[01:10:53] <nkomura>	yeah, hopefully buzz like this will bring in more beta users
[10:35:50] <avatar>	hi
[10:47:07] <hannes-_->	hi
[12:37:08] <hannes-_->	thedj: hey
[12:37:20] <hannes-_->	can u see the toolbar on the prototypes?
[12:44:02] <thedj>	Natalie: i'll check
[12:44:35] <thedj>	nope
[13:01:42] <hannes-_->	"natalie"?
[13:48:24] <RoanKattouw>	hannes-_-: I think I know what the problem with the prototypes is, will hopefully be fixed in the next 15 mins or so
[13:50:50] <hannes-_->	GREAT
[13:56:41] <RoanKattouw>	Fixed now on en prototype
[13:57:20] <hannes-_->	roan i love you
[13:57:23] <hannes-_->	you saved my day
[13:57:54] <RoanKattouw>	Rather, someone (probably Michael or Trevor) broke your day and I fixed it :)
[13:58:04] <RoanKattouw>	Do you intend on demonstrating any sandboxes/
[13:58:12] <RoanKattouw>	In that case you might wanna check on those as well
[13:58:39] <hannes-_->	yeah they are fine as much as i can see
[13:58:46] <RoanKattouw>	Also, please verify that the basic functionality actually works; like I said Trevor changed quite a few things so he might've broken something along the way
[13:59:02] <hannes-_->	I ll take some screenshot with me
[13:59:04] <hannes-_->	to be sure
[17:36:14] *Natalie 	pets thedj.
[17:48:13] <nkomura>	Hosiryuhosi: welcome to the usability IRC room
[17:48:38] <Hosiryuhosi>	:)
[17:51:54] <Hosiryuhosi>	nkomura : ??????????????????????????????? (????????????????????????????????????(?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????))
[17:52:08] <nkomura>	?????????
[17:52:18] <nkomura>	I have a meeting in eight minutes
[17:52:56] <nkomura>	so i will be idle for a while though
[17:53:00] <Hosiryuhosi>	???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????(?)?????????????????? (IE8(????????????IE7???????????????))
[17:53:13] <nkomura>	?????????????????????????????????????????????
[17:53:19] <Hosiryuhosi>	?????????
[17:53:29] <nkomura>	??????,?????????????????????
[17:53:51] <nkomura>	?????????????????????????????????????????????
[17:53:59] <RoanKattouw>	thedj: Note that SimpleSearch does support both Search and Go, but you need to use the mouse (bug, need to provide this for arrow keys as well). The idea is that if you type "JavaScript", you'll get "JavaScript" as a suggestion (click that and you go to [[JavaScript]]) as well as "Pages containing JavaScript" (click that and you go to the search results page)
[17:54:02] <Hosiryuhosi>	??????????????????(??????????????????)
[17:54:22] <nkomura>	??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
[17:54:29] <RoanKattouw>	But I hear from TrevorParscal that SimpleSearch is totally broken right now (let's sort this out after the meeting)
[17:54:49] <TrevorParscal>	yes - it's not really a big deal
[17:54:52] <nkomura>	????????????????????????
[17:55:00] <TrevorParscal>	it's a order of scripts being included thing - agaion
[17:55:00] <nkomura>	nkomura@wikimedia.org ?????????
[17:55:10] <RoanKattouw>	Gah
[17:55:12] <TrevorParscal>	someone got rid of OnBeforePageDisplay
[17:55:31] <RoanKattouw>	Was that dantman's EditPage rewrite?
[17:59:16] <Hosiryuhosi>	DNS?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
[18:01:01] <RoanKattouw>	TrevorParscal: No they didn't, it's still there in trunj
[18:01:21] <RoanKattouw>	Or do you mean OnBeforePageDisplay usage in our extension?
[18:01:49] <TrevorParscal>	um..
[18:02:34] <TrevorParscal>	you are saying the hook is still there and working?
[18:02:42] <RoanKattouw>	nkomura: Please ping me when the meeting starts, I've called in but I'm on hold
[18:02:51] <RoanKattouw>	TrevorParscal: I'm saying it's there in the code, not sure about the working part
[18:03:28] <RoanKattouw>	Except that Vector.php doesn't use BeforePageDisplay, it uses AjaxAddScript
[18:03:40] <nkomura>	RoanKattouw: will do
[18:04:47] <RoanKattouw>	Ha, and the comment claims it's a beforeToolbar hook, fixed the comment
[18:04:51] <TrevorParscal>	but it used to ... ?
[18:04:54] <TrevorParscal>	checking
[18:05:28] <RoanKattouw>	I found it
[18:05:35] <RoanKattouw>	AjaxAddScript is only called if $wgUseAjax is true
[18:05:39] <RoanKattouw>	We should use BeforePageDisplay
[18:05:41] <RoanKattouw>	Fixing
[18:06:44] <nkomura>	polycom doesn't work...
[18:08:51] <RoanKattouw>	TrevorParscal: Have you read http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:Code/MediaWiki/59710#c4683 ?
[18:09:10] <RoanKattouw>	The most hilarious sentence is "Roan, can you please assign someone from the usability team to teach Yaron the basics of web security?"
[18:10:28] <RoanKattouw>	As I don't have the authority to assign anyone to do anything, and it's not like there's anyone on this team who didn't get their security lessons from Tim or me :)
[18:12:46] <thedj>	yikes
[18:12:53] <thedj>	that isn't nice :D
[18:13:03] <RoanKattouw>	Nope, it's not nice, but it's true
[18:13:07] <nkomura>	RoanKattouw: we have problems with the phoe
[18:13:11] <RoanKattouw>	Bleh
[18:13:13] <nkomura>	we may have to switch the room
[18:13:39] <thedj>	RoanKattouw: still. might not be the best way to help people along...
[18:13:47] <thedj>	have a nice meeting guys
[18:22:41] <TrevorParscal>	RoanKattouw: hi
[18:22:42] <TrevorParscal>	ping
[18:22:50] <TrevorParscal>	call in now?
[21:22:40] <TrevorParscal>	RoanKattouw: did you see this protected page textarea alignment bug?
[21:22:45] <TrevorParscal>	https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=21799
[21:22:55] <RoanKattouw>	Yes
[21:22:58] <RoanKattouw>	Looking at it
[21:23:04] <TrevorParscal>	right on
[21:23:10] <RoanKattouw>	I'm convinced it's an unclosed tag in a system message, but I can' t find it
[21:23:25] <RoanKattouw>	nkomura: Can you reproduce the bug you filed?
[21:23:40] <nkomura>	it is IE bug
[21:23:45] <nkomura>	it required me to reboot
[21:23:46] <RoanKattouw>	TrevorParscal: Oh and PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE remember to update style versions and recombine when you change JS
[21:23:55] <TrevorParscal>	yeah - sorry
[21:24:02] <TrevorParscal>	i was being very lazy :(
[21:24:18] <RoanKattouw>	I recombined for you twice today, for like a dozen revs
[21:24:23] <TrevorParscal>	sort of just commiting away durring the meeting.. and some fixes yesterday too I think
[21:24:29] <RoanKattouw>	There's no way you didn't see the 12 CodeReview notification e-mails
[21:24:32] <TrevorParscal>	thanks!
[21:24:35] <TrevorParscal>	i did
[21:25:29] <nkomura>	RoanKattouw: it won't help you much, but the text area looks fine on my FF3 on Ubuntu for Japanese
[21:25:51] <RoanKattouw>	Yeah me too
[21:26:02] *TrevorParscal 	can't reproduce either
[21:26:18] <RoanKattouw>	I'll fire up and IE and look at it, trying different uselang= params too
[21:26:19] <nkomura>	not even on IE8?
[21:29:07] <YaronK>	Hello, everyone! Greetings from the People's Republic of China.
[21:29:16] <nkomura>	hello YaronK
[21:29:24] <nkomura>	how's Shanghai?
[21:29:55] <YaronK>	Nice - the buildings are insane, but the people are friendly.
[21:30:15] <YaronK>	I mean, the architecture.
[21:30:23] <YaronK>	And the food is excellent.
[21:30:42] <nkomura>	nice
[21:30:48] <nkomura>	is it really cold there?
[21:31:19] <YaronK>	In the 40s and 50s, basically.
[21:31:27] <YaronK>	I'm fine with my coat.
[21:33:16] <YaronK>	I gave a demo of Semantic MediaWiki to some college students here yesterday - it was an interesting experience.
[21:33:40] <nkomura>	what do you mean by interesting?
[21:36:15] <YaronK>	Well, among other things, I think there's a different attitude to being in a group - I and some other people spoke, and none of the students had any questions for us, which I thought meant that they weren't interested, but then afterwards, talking to them one-on-one, they had a whole bunch of questions.
[21:38:24] <nkomura>	yeah, communication style is quite different in asian countries
[21:38:31] <nkomura>	i can't speak for chinese community
[21:38:54] <nkomura>	but you would experience the similar pattern in japan too
[21:39:15] <nkomura>	they are not used to open discussion forum in public setting
[21:39:46] <YaronK>	Yeah - that makes sense.
[21:40:33] <YaronK>	This group was also much more into semantics than into wikis, which may or may not be also tied in.
[21:49:07] <RoanKattouw>	TrevorParscal: Can I dynamically pull in a CSS file with jQuery?
[21:49:55] <RoanKattouw>	Putting show changes in a tab is more trouble than I thought it was gonna be, thing is we don't have a clean external interface for diffing to something that's not a revision
[21:54:14] <TrevorParscal>	RoanKattouw: interesting
[21:54:25] <TrevorParscal>	well - yeah, so adding in CSS with jquery is easy
[21:54:48] <RoanKattouw>	Add a <link> to the <head>?
[21:55:23] <TrevorParscal>	just do a $(document).append( $( '<style></style>' ).attr( 'src', 'some/path/to/some/css/file' ) );
[21:55:29] <TrevorParscal>	it doesn't have to be in the head
[21:55:42] <TrevorParscal>	neither do scripts
[21:55:58] <TrevorParscal>	in fact, scripts should be at the bottom of the body for best performance
[21:56:22] <RoanKattouw>	Right well I'm putting it in the head anyway because I'm running that code multiple times and want to add the CSS only once
[21:57:16] <RoanKattouw>	Ha
[21:57:29] <RoanKattouw>	Figure out what's wrong with this code and why it blows up your page ;)
[21:57:40] <RoanKattouw>	$( 'head' ).append( $( 'link' ).attr( {'rel': 'stylesheet',	'type': 'text/css','href': stylepath + '/diff.css'} ) );
[21:59:18] <TrevorParscal>	$( 'link' ) should be $( '<link></link>' )
[21:59:20] <RoanKattouw>	Yay, got it working. Implementation sucks on multiple levels, but it works
[21:59:23] <RoanKattouw>	Exactly
[21:59:43] *TrevorParscal 	passes the test!
[21:59:53] *TrevorParscal 	expects cookie
[21:59:59] *TrevorParscal 	demands cookie
[22:00:15] <RoanKattouw>	You'll get that cookie when you recombine and bump style versions
[22:00:51] <RoanKattouw>	For r59850
[22:02:11] <RoanKattouw>	OK guys I'm gonna take a shower now that my family is still awake, they'll hate me if I shower at 1 AM
[22:02:18] <RoanKattouw>	Be back in 30ish
[22:02:46] <YaronK>	I have a CSS-related question too, actually - I moved the CSS for displaying template info into its own file, but now the formatting only shows up when you go to '&action=purge'.
[22:03:17] <YaronK>	Like here - http://discoursedb.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Good_XML&action=purge
[22:04:12] <YaronK>	I've seen this problem (MediaWiki caching doesn't allow for changing $wgOut) before, but I don't know how to fix it.
[22:04:16] <RoanKattouw_away>	YaronK: That's because you added the CSS in the XML tag handler, probably
[22:04:27] <YaronK>	Yeah, I did.
[22:04:52] <RoanKattouw_away>	And it doesn't get cached along with the rest
[22:04:54] <YaronK>	I mean, I don't want to add it for templates that don't use <templateinfo>, if that's possible.
[22:05:29] <RoanKattouw_away>	Workarounds: 1) add it everywhere 2) add <style src="url/to/TemplateInfo.css"></style> before templateinfo's HTML output
[22:05:48] <RoanKattouw_away>	Where (1) means adding TemplateInfo's CSS to all page views ever
[22:05:55] <YaronK>	Right, okay.
[22:06:01] <RoanKattouw_away>	I'd prefer (2), not sure it'll work though
[22:06:11] <YaronK>	Will <style> within the <body> tag work across all browsers? I wasn't sure about that.
[22:06:22] <YaronK>	Right.
[22:06:29] *RoanKattouw_away 	forwards question to Trevor, goes away for real now
[22:06:37] <YaronK>	Okay, thanks for the help. :)
[22:06:50] <YaronK>	TrevorParscal - hello. Any thoughts?
[22:06:58] <TrevorParscal>	reading backlog
[22:07:34] <TrevorParscal>	YaronK: how many bytes is the css file?
[22:07:46] <YaronK>	 It's pretty small.
[22:08:14] <YaronK>	Though it might get bigger if/when the look of the table gets redesigned.... but it probably won't be that big.
[22:08:37] <TrevorParscal>	unless it's really big, like how big vector.css is or something - just add it on every page
[22:08:59] <YaronK>	Alright, fine, I'll just do that, then. Thanks.
[22:09:08] <TrevorParscal>	n/p
[22:36:17] <TrevorParscal>	on a more serious note, http://www.trevorparscal.com/stuff/nbajam/
[22:51:38] <RoanKattouw>	nkomura: Is that the Neil we were once gonna hire?
[22:51:51] <nkomura>	yeah
[22:53:33] <nkomura>	RoanKattouw, TrevorParscal and adam_miller, where do you stand on review/deployment of the CSS revisions and one bug fix for baloon text for watch/unwatch?
[22:53:52] <RoanKattouw>	I'm ready, just waiting for TrevorParscal to OK those revs
[22:54:10] <TrevorParscal>	i already OKed them
[22:54:11] <RoanKattouw>	And if he's up for it I wanna walk him through deploying them so he can deploy stuff himself
[22:54:14] <adam_miller>	I'm good too
[22:54:19] *TrevorParscal 	is up to it
[22:54:29] <RoanKattouw>	Alright let's roll then
[22:56:38] <RoanKattouw>	OK for clarity: we're supposed to deploy http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:Code/MediaWiki/59224 http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:Code/MediaWiki/59254 http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:Code/MediaWiki/59680 http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:Code/MediaWiki/59683 right?
[22:58:28] <nkomura>	adam_miller: can you confirm it?
[22:58:47] <nkomura>	they look right to me
[23:00:49] <adam_miller>	that looks right to me as well
[23:01:39] <TrevorParscal>	and also r59806
[23:02:26] <TrevorParscal>	(http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:Code/MediaWiki/59806)
[23:02:43] <RoanKattouw>	OK
[23:03:08] <Prodego>	http://www.webdesignerdepot.com/2009/12/wikipedia-redesign-whats-in-store/
[23:03:23] <Prodego>	might be interesting if you haven't seen it
[23:03:29] <RoanKattouw>	Yeah we've seen it
[23:04:01] <TrevorParscal>	thanks for the link though
[23:04:08] <TrevorParscal>	we always like to read about ourselves :)
[23:04:41] <Prodego>	heh, honestly the blue color for visuted links  I don't like, I can't tell if I've clicked or not. :) but the purple does look silly
[23:06:09] <Prodego>	probably haven't seen this though RoanKattouw http://www.collegehumor.com/article:1795509
[23:06:16] <RoanKattouw>	Yes I have
[23:06:30] <RoanKattouw>	Got it from Rand
[23:06:39] <Prodego>	aww, I was just going to give it to rand
[23:06:51] <Prodego>	it says 'by Jason Michaels 1 minute ago' how could
[23:07:25] <RoanKattouw>	No idea, maybe he just edited it
[23:07:50] <RoanKattouw>	    /* Fixes old versions of FireFox */
[23:07:52] <RoanKattouw>	        /* @noflip */
[23:07:53] <RoanKattouw>	        body.rtl div.vectorMenu > div.menu,
[23:07:55] <RoanKattouw>	        x:-moz-any-link {
[23:07:56] <RoanKattouw>	                margin-left: 23px;
[23:07:58] <RoanKattouw>	        }
[23:08:02] <RoanKattouw>	TrevorParscal: ---^^ Merge conflict between 23px and 24px , which should I choose?
[23:08:22] <TrevorParscal>	23
[23:08:34] <TrevorParscal>	there's a revision you are missing
[23:08:54] <RoanKattouw>	Thought so
[23:09:10] <TrevorParscal>	http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:Code/MediaWiki/59714
[23:10:16] <RoanKattouw>	Merged, please review diff: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:Code/MediaWiki/59858
[23:10:39] <RoanKattouw>	If only just briefly to confirm I didn't do something horribly wrong
[23:11:40] <TrevorParscal>	looks good to mer
[23:11:43] <TrevorParscal>	*me
[23:12:13] <RoanKattouw>	OK, then I'll instruct you on deploying it in private chat