[00:08:39] *TrevorParscal reads backlock [00:08:42] *backlog [00:21:17] adam_miller: I'd been using random test pages I make along with San Francisco, a living person article would also probably be a good test case...let's import Lady Gaga or something [00:21:30] ooh or Barack Obama. that would probably be more thorough [00:21:48] i added the SF infobox to a shorter article i had locally [00:31:13] lady gaga - seriously? [00:31:15] ha ha [00:52:21] hi TrevorParscal [00:52:26] I hear you're sticking around :) [00:52:35] I also hear you've met my friend Boriss [00:52:56] yes, she's awesome [00:53:03] :) [00:53:08] how's it going? [00:53:16] well, just getting into the uni thing [00:53:28] sitting in the CSE lounge/workspace/whatever waiting for my 1pm lab [15:54:20] The usability features are great, I love them. :-) But when will they be deployed by default on Wikipedia ? [16:04:13] We're planning early April [16:07:09] OK, thanks :-) [16:09:01] Keep up the good work ! :-) Bye [16:33:04] Morning folks [16:33:41] TrevorParscal: Are you working from home or are you actually in the office? [16:34:02] i'm at home, about to head in [16:34:10] teaching cadence how to type [16:34:59] hehe [16:35:22] she likes to press and hold [16:35:35] trying to teach her how to press and release quickly [16:35:41] Hey I read your tweet about moving, does that mean you finally found a decent place in the city? [16:35:46] yes [16:35:53] sorry - should have mentioned it to you [16:35:58] No worries :P [16:36:00] yesterday was crazyness [16:36:10] we're moving to 673 Brannan St. [16:36:23] *TrevorParscal waits for RoanKattouw to google map it [16:36:33] I have an idea of where that is [16:36:38] :) [16:36:46] I'm resisting the temptation of gmapping it immediately and trying to recall where exactly Brannan is [16:36:48] I will be crazy close to the office [16:36:53] Isn't it between King and Bryant? [16:36:57] like 10 minute walk / 3 minute bike ride [16:36:58] Yeah [16:37:22] And the 600 block... depending on where exactly Brannan starts that'll be pretty close as well [16:37:25] Bryant, Brannan, Townsend King (going south from the Freeway) [16:37:37] Ah that's closer than I expected [16:37:41] it's between 5th and 6th st [16:37:42] What's the cross street? [16:37:44] Right [16:37:56] it's on the corner of 6th and Brannan [16:37:57] Dude that's like 4 blocks from the Wikia office [16:38:04] yes, i know [16:38:26] so, next time you come we won [16:38:35] *won't have to drive everywhere [16:38:43] we can just rent you a bike for the week [16:38:52] unless I have spare [16:39:13] I need to get a bike actually... [16:39:27] soon - I will ask for advice when I start shopping [17:45:25] Well, that only took an hour [17:45:36] that traffic was horrible [17:45:56] whenever it rains, everyone starts driving like idiots [18:07:52] Are we still gonna do the team meeting? [18:11:13] TrevorParscal: *poke* Are we still doing the team meeting? If so, when? [18:11:21] yes [18:11:22] now [18:11:25] OK [18:11:28] Call-in or Skype? [18:11:30] crap - i got carried away with javascript foodness [18:11:34] *goodness [18:11:35] :) [18:11:42] and Parul isn't here yet [18:11:47] OK [18:11:59] can we do it at 10:30 hoping she'll show [18:12:03] I'm expanding on the JS/CSS/images assets list I made for Mark [18:12:05] Cool [18:12:05] will that work for you / adam? [18:12:18] oh - he's out today [18:12:30] Leaves me time to have dessert now instead of having to throw it out tomorrow :) [18:12:40] :) [18:13:25] Hey so that new place of yours, is it like an apartment? I streetviewed it and made out 673 on one of the door panels and it looked like an apartment building or duplex/triplex of sorts [18:13:43] It's a loft [18:13:51] 2 story open floorplan [18:16:43] Loft as in above a shop or as in ridiculously tall floors? [18:22:56] tall floors [18:23:02] or.. tall cielings rather [18:23:15] High distance between floors and ceilings :) [18:23:28] s/cielings/ceilings [18:23:38] "i before e except after c" [18:24:23] yeah... sometimes my muscle memory screws me over [18:29:30] Hey did you know there's a bike shop on that very block? [18:32:38] TrevorParscal: Please ping me when we start the meeting and tell me whether I should use the usual call-in number or Skype [18:32:52] Both Adam and Hannes are out, I should be the only one calling in [20:05:09] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Explorer_shell [20:11:16] http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/74/Timeline_of_web_browsers.svg [20:11:34] I think I want to vote for "any java-based web browser" [20:11:36] HotJava [20:11:48] also, Javagator, which sucked resources from Netscape back in the day [20:14:25] what's even more scarry than it being so many browsers, is the fact that I realize how many of those I have actually used... [20:14:54] i'm missing my arch nemisis NetFront btw :D [21:18:46] TrevorParscal: I wrote the opt-out fix, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:Code/MediaWiki/63188 . Want me to deploy that? [21:19:20] Hey I can squeak in the experimental vs. labs thing too [21:42:07] *RoanKattouw pokes TrevorParscal harder [22:13:55] somebody nudge him in real life :) [22:21:54] I'm here now [23:08:13] RoanKattouw: you there? [23:09:10] Yes [23:09:48] You're the one that keeps being away :) [23:10:02] So, can I or can I not deploy the optin/out change site-wide [23:13:41] TrevorParscal: ? [23:14:00] TrevorParscal: If you ask me whether I'm here, the least you can do is answer a question I've asked you three times already [23:14:31] hi RoanKattouw [23:14:35] how are you? [23:14:36] RoanKattouw, he's afk, talking with tomasz [23:14:38] Hey Naoko [23:14:41] Ugh [23:14:56] i'm not aware of deployment today [23:15:03] He's been available on IRC for a grand total of like 30 mins today, scattered across the day [23:15:04] what are you guys talking about? [23:15:26] RoanKattouw, well, we had the strategy stuff that took at least 2 hours [23:15:36] nkomura: It's about a simple fix taking NTOC out of the enable-me-on-optin set, but keeping it in the disable-me-on-opt-out set. It's already been staged on test [23:15:48] Yeah he said something about a meeting [23:17:26] RoanKattouw: why are we tacking restoring dialogues into opt-in [23:17:31] ? [23:17:36] ? [23:18:14] i think there are several inconsistency going on with the current opt-in/opt-out configuration [23:18:18] We're still enabling the dialogs preference by default for now [23:18:29] But there's a hack in place disabling the actual dialogs [23:18:51] Trevor told me not to remove the dialogs from the opt-in set because we're planning to turn them back on sans the iframe requirement relatively soon [23:19:20] right [23:19:30] you are talking about disabling iframe from dialogues [23:20:10] i'm talking about restoring dialogue features without iframe [23:20:24] right now beta users only can opt-in to vector and the toolbar [23:20:39] but i understand the need for decoupling NTOC from the beta [23:20:59] it's late for you, and i prefer we do not production config change so late in the day [23:21:11] especially everyone is talking about different things including myself [23:21:25] nkomura: No, I'm *also* talking about restoring dialog features without the iframe [23:21:53] I wrote the fix hours ago but Trevor's availability has been horrible [23:22:27] If he'd been around earlier I could've pushed it, now it'll have to sit on a shelf for 5 days [23:22:33] RoanKattouw: my apologies if we were on the same page ;) [23:22:47] dang it [23:22:51] I keep getting pulled away [23:22:53] I'm very sorry [23:23:02] Dude you do realize that we either push stuff now or next Monday? [23:23:09] so it is pat mid night for roan [23:23:23] I say we push this change of the opt-in system now [23:23:31] I've tested it on test.wikipedia.org [23:23:35] Godo [23:23:46] godo? [23:23:49] Good [23:23:52] RoanKattouw: please wait [23:23:52] sweet [23:24:00] sorry again about being constantly pulled away [23:24:05] In the future, try not to take an hour to tell me to stage, then another hour to greenlight me ;) [23:24:07] TrevorParscal: i'd like to be informed production change [23:24:22] your meeting notes mentioned that you guys are placing low priority [23:24:28] so i had no idea you are doing it today [23:24:37] nkomura: it was the change you requested [23:24:45] yes [23:24:47] And it has no priority assigned in the dev plan [23:24:51] right [23:24:51] but only half of it [23:25:15] the other half, the changing preferences categories [23:25:21] so i am hearing decoupling NTOC from the beta opt in [23:25:24] So the change will mean that we will no longer give people who opt in the NTOC [23:25:29] we are going to get more translations for the new category name [23:25:36] But we'll still take it away from them when they opt out [23:25:40] actually, both category names are changeing [23:25:41] That is half of your request, right? [23:26:12] the other half is restoring dialogues w/o iframe [23:26:29] Yes, that's not happening right now because that requires more work [23:26:40] that requires more testing to ensure it's working on the browsers we lower the compatability table to [23:26:56] so what do we gain by doing the first half? [23:27:13] keeping less record of NTOC as beta opt-in? [23:27:22] We no longer give people who opt in the NTOC [23:27:29] NTOC means iframe means copypaste issues [23:27:42] It's not about record keeping at all [23:27:45] we will still need to sweep beta opt-in users with NTOC enabled [23:27:46] we would have more accurate statistics - since the NTOC is being enabled for people who aren't actually getting it [23:28:07] but yeah, It's not about record keeping [23:28:12] nkomura: And force-disabling it for them even if they like it? Sounds scary [23:28:32] i know that's not my favorite plan [23:28:49] but as NTOC will break copy/paste in the future [23:29:06] The only thing I am comfortable with right now is making this very small configuration change and software update to the opt-in system [23:29:08] we will need to take it away from users who do not know about these issues [23:29:22] k, [23:29:37] all this other stuff needs to be discussed in a less time-critical setting [23:29:39] OK can you guys 1) please focus on what to do right now instead of blocking on what we might wanna do in the future and 2) try not to break the record for approval time : change magnitude ratio? [23:29:45] i'm ok with the config change, but may i ask you to keep record of this change? [23:29:55] Keep record how? [23:30:08] bugzilla enhancement? [23:30:13] I'll be happy to keep records of that [23:30:26] that would be fine - bugzilla is a great idea [23:30:29] OK Trevor you do the record-keeping, I'm just gonna deploy then sleep [23:30:36] :) [23:30:37] sounds perfect [23:31:00] sorry again for being pulled away from my desk at inopportune times [23:31:05] keeping tracking of who has what is becoming nightmare [23:31:32] TrevorParscal and RoanKattouw, thank you for working this out [23:31:46] Sure [23:32:14] I know it's not really any of your fault, but this thing has been getting on my nerves, please don't repeat this in the future [23:32:57] do you mean having you standing by without being available? [23:33:21] (By this I mean being away from IRC all the time without any indication, taking hours to approve a 5-line change, then starting a fight over it when it's finally approved) [23:33:36] OK deployment done [23:33:46] it wasn't a fight [23:34:13] RoanKattouw: thanks [23:34:13] i wanted to know the rational of deploying the config change [23:34:29] It was in the experience of a tired and annoyed person :) [23:34:38] it is also due to my unavailability in the morning [23:34:53] sorry about that [23:34:54] Yeah I don't hold any of this against you guys personally [23:35:01] RoanKattouw: please get some sleep - we can talk about better communication techniques tomorrow for sure [23:35:12] It's mostly an unfortunate sequence of events [23:35:14] No we can't, all-staff [23:35:36] I will still be online as much as I can to help [23:35:52] I'll be calling in to the majority of the tech meeting tomorrow [23:35:56] And the Tech meetings will have plenty of IRC breaks anyways [23:36:02] Right [23:36:14] hi nkomura ; how was the meeting this morning? [23:36:25] anyways - sorry about the disconnect, thanks for your patience [23:36:28] Sure [23:36:36] RoanKattouw: thank you [23:36:50] Most of the communication techniques discussion boils down to "Type /away into your IRC window when you go to a 2-hr strategy meeting" :) [23:36:58] it was my fault as that i was not available for discussion earlier [23:37:16] guillom: it was very productive and interesting [23:37:21] I knew you were away for the morning, you'd sent an e-mail about that like 5 days ago [23:37:24] good [23:37:45] RoanKattouw: very true [23:37:53] *TrevorParscal develops better habbits [23:38:10] nkomura: documented -> https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=22706 [23:40:01] Biking to work is a good habit :) [23:40:15] Yeah, I'm excited about being able to start doing that [23:40:26] One word of bike advice: get a helmet. I didn't get one last time, but I wasn't too happy with that in hindsight. San Francisco != Groningen :) [23:40:48] in CA it's not legal to ride without one - but yes, I'm down for helmets anyways [23:40:54] It is if you're over 18 [23:41:07] At least that's what the bike rental form said [23:41:14] hmm - yeah - i guess so... hmm [23:41:33] *TrevorParscal just remembers safety classes as a kid [23:41:58] *TrevorParscal puts on full motorcycle gear to ride bicycle [23:42:01] hehe [23:42:13] *werdna offers TrevorParscal a swine flu mask [23:42:41] I thought the requirement was a bit idiotic at first until I realized how much less bike-friendly everything is down there [23:42:51] *TrevorParscal take mask and put's it under his DOT and SNELL approved helmet [23:43:31] RoanKattouw: yeah, I know it will take some careful learning to get any good at bicycling in the city [23:44:16] It kinda took me by surprise too [23:44:54] I'm used to having the bike lane physically separated from the car lanes when there's more than two of them. Instead, I found myself trying to get through four lanes of traffic just to make a turn [23:45:16] And there's the hills [23:46:54] Where I grew up, there were lots of bike trails and bike lanes [23:47:09] but in SF, bikes are just treated like cars [23:47:39] for the purposes of traffic laws, it's the same in AU [23:48:22] Yeah bikes are like cars in NL, except that people are actually willing to share the road [23:49:22] Biking on e.g. Geary Blvd (speed limit 35, 6 lanes with divider in places) scares me more than biking on a random country road back home (speed limit 50, 2 lanes, no divider) [23:50:28] *RoanKattouw really goes to sleep now