[01:00:31] <thedj>	guillom: no a known issue.
[01:01:00] <thedj>	safari has that problem as well. And if i rmember then the wikEd guy said it cannot be fixed at this moment.
[01:01:33] <guillom>	thedj, what are you refering to?
[01:02:02] <thedj>	"humpf, Ctrl-Z doesn't undo a Ctrl-V any more in FF 3.5.8"
[01:02:15] <guillom>	ah ok
[01:02:34] <guillom>	I came back home in the meantime, didn't know what you were talking about :)
[01:03:34] <thedj>	ah, i only now notice you said that like 1,5 hour ago
[02:30:00] <thedj>	parutron: btw. there are reports on english wikipedia that "Internet explorer is jumping around in the edit interface, and has 'changed'"
[02:30:09] <thedj>	might be related to yesterdays deploy
[02:30:24] <parutron>	oh no!
[02:30:39] <parutron>	thanks thedj i am going to look into that now.
[02:30:50] <parutron>	can you point me to anywhere these reports are taking place?
[02:31:03] <thedj>	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Help_desk#Editing_window_scrolls_automatically_if_certain_keys_are_used
[02:31:31] <thedj>	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:VP/T#Movement_in_the_text_box
[02:31:49] <parutron>	thank you so much!
[02:31:59] <thedj>	might also be some JS breakage due to yesterdays outage perhaps, but i wouldn't know
[02:32:15] <parutron>	looks like these are also non-beta users.....
[02:32:38] <thedj>	well the non-beta users have been server beta code by accident before
[02:34:00] <parutron>	sigh
[02:34:12] <thedj>	haha, some old admin guys whining about the new interface. and MER-C responds with:
[02:34:15] <thedj>	"If the usability initiative stuff achieves its aim to reduce the barriers to editing WP, then we'll probably get a lot of new editors. I don't think much thought has been given to the implications of this on admin workload -- do we need to? "
[02:38:24] <parutron>	unfortunately, the best thing i can do is relay to the developers on our team that can actually do something about this....
[11:31:35] <Diaa>	Hello :) I'm impressed by all the improvement the usability team has achieved, I had a question though, are there plans to make inserting references easier? For example did u study the citation tool where the user enters the url title author and publication date? making inserting a reference much easier and without the need to look at the wikisyntax?
[11:50:44] <Diaa>	Is there an IRC for the multimedia?
[12:51:52] <Krinkle>	Hi, i've searched for a few minutes but haven't been able to find anything.
[12:52:04] <Krinkle>	Has the usability intiative anything related to thumbnails yet ?
[12:58:53] <RoanKattouw>	Maybe the multimedia folk do
[15:30:15] <hannes-_->	hey parutron
[15:30:31] <hannes-_->	do you have a 0800-number for the conference call?
[15:30:44] <hannes-_->	I guess it gets really expensive otherwise
[15:31:02] <parutron>	i do not.
[15:31:53] <hannes-_->	do I need to do that? I thought the goto link supports me with everything I need
[15:32:05] <hannes-_->	like last time
[15:32:32] <parutron>	this set up is different
[15:32:44] <parutron>	but i'm not sure as to why the # is different
[15:32:53] <parutron>	did you have to call in last time or was it all on your computer?
[15:35:23] <hannes-_->	everything came from the software
[15:35:49] <hannes-_->	what happens when I call via voip?
[15:47:35] <hannes-_->	anyone knows a good voip client?
[15:51:47] <parutron>	hannes-_-: did you see nash's email
[15:51:51] <parutron>	the number is the same as last time
[15:53:54] <hannes-_->	I didnt call last time
[15:54:09] <hannes-_->	but I have the number - if it s really toll free I can call it
[15:54:30] <hannes-_->	I am looking for a voip atm - but I can t find a good one
[15:54:44] <hannes-_->	parutron: when will the test start?
[15:54:52] <parutron>	9
[16:20:19] <hannes-_->	RoanKattouw: are u there?
[16:20:45] <RoanKattouw>	Yes
[16:20:57] <hannes-_->	do u use the wmf voip?
[16:21:09] <hannes-_->	which client do u use?
[16:21:15] <hannes-_->	i cannot find a client
[16:23:16] <hannes-_->	argh this i so annyoing#
[16:23:28] <hannes-_->	I am wathcing the study without sound
[16:23:43] <hannes-_->	RoanKattouw: please help!
[16:24:32] <RoanKattouw>	I use Twinkle
[16:24:37] <RoanKattouw>	Not sure if that works on Windows
[16:24:48] <hannes-_->	u have ubuntu?
[16:24:51] <RoanKattouw>	yes
[16:25:13] <hannes-_->	and do you know if I can call any numbers with that wmf -voip account?
[16:25:30] <RoanKattouw>	You can
[16:30:52] <RoanKattouw>	Phh,
[16:31:00] <RoanKattouw>	Any of you been keeping up with wikitech-l today?
[16:31:25] <RoanKattouw>	I feel like the Usability Initiative Communications Officer today
[16:32:41] <GerardM->	<grin> a necessary function
[16:33:43] <RoanKattouw>	Yeah but that person shouldn't be me
[16:34:02] <Ryan_Lane>	Why is that even on wikitech-l?
[16:34:18] <RoanKattouw>	Someone started this thread
[16:34:22] <guillom>	RoanKattouw, you should tell naoko, perhaps she isn't subscribed to wikitech-l
[16:34:29] <RoanKattouw>	[Wikitech-l] serious questions about UsabilityInitiative going live
[16:34:30] <Ryan_Lane>	yeah. I know. it should probably be on another list
[16:34:32] <RoanKattouw>	Probably not, no
[16:35:29] <hannes-_->	RoanKattouw: do I need to dial any number or do anything else before I can call a us-number?
[16:35:31] <RoanKattouw>	Some people think it's definitely not ready for deployment but have as of yet been unable to come up with anything more convincing than the lack of certain toolbar buttons (easily added through local/user JS) and a trivial bug in the image button
[16:35:48] <RoanKattouw>	hannes-_-: No. You do need to prefix the number with 1, but that applies to all US phones
[16:35:56] <hannes-_->	ah thx
[16:36:00] <RoanKattouw>	So to call (415) 839 6885 you need to dial 14158396885
[16:36:21] <RoanKattouw>	And the prefix for international calls is 011 instead of 00
[16:36:23] <hannes-_->	hmm my calls gets disconnected
[16:38:17] <hannes-_->	so how do I call a us number than?
[16:38:54] <RoanKattouw>	What did you try?
[16:39:00] <hannes-_->	without 001
[16:39:04] <hannes-_->	just 1800
[16:39:20] <RoanKattouw>	That should work
[16:39:37] <hannes-_->	nope
[16:39:53] <RoanKattouw>	Weird
[16:42:50] <hannes-_->	nkomura: hi naoko - do u follow the test?
[16:43:01] <nkomura>	hey
[16:45:30] <RoanKattouw>	nkomura: Good morning. There's some renewed uproar on wikitech-l, I spent half an hour today assuring people the world's not gonna end :) http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikitech-l/2010-March/047355.html
[16:48:19] <nkomura>	i read it as a simple question
[16:48:27] <nkomura>	blog comments were friendly
[16:50:16] <Krinkle>	Hi, I'm currently reviewing a proposed edit on nl.wiki from thedj. but before trying something of my own, I think it might have been raisen before as it is wiki-wide. I'm talking about the yellow Featured article-start in the interwiki-lijst (FA). Since Vector's list does not have a bullets or list-item-image and overflow:hidden on the <li>'s. I was curious if there has been made a solution before to fix the FA-icons ?
[16:50:50] <Krinkle>	One way would be to undo overflow:hidden on li.FA or negative margin with positive padding and posititoin the start to the left
[16:51:14] <Krinkle>	the start* in the left-center background*
[16:51:27] <Krinkle>	In Monobook this was done by simply swapping the list-item-image
[16:51:33] <RoanKattouw>	nkomura: Yeah the first post isn't that bad
[16:51:55] *nkomura 	goes to wikitech-l folder 
[16:51:55] <RoanKattouw>	It's the third one or so where there's this guy who claims it's obviously not ready but doesn't point out anything more serious than two lacking toolbar buttons and one broken one
[16:52:27] <hannes-_->	yeahhhh i got sound!!
[16:52:29] <hannes-_->	^^
[16:52:34] <RoanKattouw>	Krinkle: Try looking at other wikis that have fixed this and Firebugging their FA image?
[16:52:39] <hannes-_->	RobH: THX!!!
[16:53:38] <Krinkle>	RoanKattouw: Right :) - I wasn't sure it was fixed yet on other wikis
[16:55:45] <RobH>	welcome
[16:59:55] <nkomura>	RoanKattouw: thank you for following up on the email thread
[17:00:03] <nkomura>	we are not doing that well in RTL community
[17:00:40] <RoanKattouw>	Right
[17:00:41] <GerardM->	not so strange when you consider that there is a backlog of support issues there
[17:00:54] <nkomura>	and we should spend more time in the language specific communities
[17:01:03] <RoanKattouw>	Yeah it's probably not specifically us doing worse in RTL, but more like MW in general doing worse
[17:01:03] <nkomura>	yeah
[17:01:13] <GerardM->	indeed
[17:01:19] <RoanKattouw>	But this poster admitted these issues mostly didn't really relate to RTL
[17:01:58] <nkomura>	we are putting nowiki icon back in
[17:02:06] <nkomura>	that's already mocked by hannes-_-
[17:02:35] <nkomura>	we should work on customization instruction to make that explicit
[17:03:04] <RoanKattouw>	O
[17:03:10] <nkomura>	RoanKattouw: so i am hearing two different explanation about the default setting
[17:03:17] <RoanKattouw>	Yes I have acknowledged some of that page is less than helpful
[17:03:35] <RoanKattouw>	So I will add a section with easy-instant-copypaste snippets for specific buttons
[17:03:39] <RoanKattouw>	nkomura: What's that?
[17:03:56] <nkomura>	nimish says that there is no such as thing as default setting
[17:04:13] <nkomura>	but i recall you explained to us that the default setting is tracked
[17:04:24] <RoanKattouw>	Ah?
[17:04:28] <nimish_g>	it's not really
[17:04:31] <RoanKattouw>	Could you be more specific?
[17:04:35] <RoanKattouw>	I don't really understand either of you
[17:04:40] <nkomura>	and we can avoid overriding people who choose away from the default setting
[17:04:41] <RoanKattouw>	Is this about skins?
[17:04:48] <nkomura>	yes
[17:04:49] <nimish_g>	Ok, so here's what nkomura wants, I believe
[17:04:56] <GerardM->	FYI there is a nice amount of localisation going on for the toolbox
[17:04:59] <nkomura>	i can explain what i want
[17:05:02] <nkomura>	:D
[17:05:04] <nimish_g>	hehe ok
[17:05:20] <nimish_g>	I know that what you were talking about doesn't exist in our current system tho
[17:05:31] <nkomura>	so i want to make sure that we do not override the skin preference of users
[17:06:20] <nkomura>	if say a user changed the setting from monobook (current) skin to nostargia
[17:06:33] <nkomura>	when we introduce vector as default skin,
[17:06:43] <nkomura>	can this user maintain nostargia?
[17:07:19] <nimish_g>	basically, RoanKattouw, right now we don't know if a user is using monobook b/c it's just the default or because they expressly want monobook. If we make Vector default, all the users using monobook will have vector b/c the default skin pref isn't stored afaik. we want to let users differentiate in preferences between "I'll take the default, whatever it is" and "I want monobook/vector/whatever, which *also* happe
[17:08:09] <RoanKattouw>	nkomura: Yes, they will keep Nostalgia
[17:08:22] <RoanKattouw>	More generally, any users whose skin is neither Monobook nor Vector will not be affected skin-wise
[17:08:39] <RoanKattouw>	nimish_g: Cutoff after which *also* happe
[17:08:49] <RoanKattouw>	But yeah I get what you mean
[17:09:07] <RoanKattouw>	We could go this using the optin data
[17:14:20] <nkomura>	RoanKattouw: i want our beta another chance to opt-out users too
[17:15:23] <nkomura>	beta users tried the beta at different phase of the beta period
[17:16:30] <guillom>	nimish_g, answered
[17:16:34] <guillom>	(your talk page)
[17:16:59] <Krinkle>	RoanKattouw_away: Okay, I got it to work
[17:17:47] <nkomura>	so just because they opt-out beta at one point, it does not mean that they experienced the features we are offering as default features
[17:18:08] <Krinkle>	Something else, tho. It seems to be different form wiki to wiki. But sometimes the editor is an <iframe> and tho I dont care why it's not a <textarea> (props due to the javascript freedom) - but the reason I disable it everywhere I go is because it does not understand whitespace and linebreaks. When I copy/paste tekst into the iframe-editor that has linebreaks it all goes on 1 big line.
[17:18:08] <nimish_g>	guillom: thanks =)
[17:18:29] <Krinkle>	Just like in HTML whitespace is ignored aswell. Albeit it being normal in HTML, it should not be in an editor.
[17:18:35] <guillom>	nimish_g, also, I added some basic info to your user page to avoid misunderstanding
[17:24:41] <parutron>	hi hannes_away
[17:26:42] <parutron>	just sent you a message about the goto meeting here
[17:29:24] <hannes-__>	hey parutron
[17:29:36] <hannes-__>	got the mail. thx
[17:29:55] <hannes-__>	when would the next study start?
[17:30:01] <hannes-__>	at 11?
[17:30:08] <parutron>	12pm my time
[17:30:24] <parutron>	we are starting the 10:30 session now and nash was unable to eliminate the beeping
[17:30:30] <parutron>	(we only have 10 min between the two)
[17:30:39] <parutron>	normally it's 30
[17:30:48] <hannes-__>	k
[17:30:59] <hannes-__>	skype doesn t work either?
[17:31:08] <hannes-__>	hm n o too bad quality
[17:34:42] <Ryan_Lane>	gah. I never set email up on tesla prototypes.
[17:35:04] <Ryan_Lane>	RobH: Are there any special exim setting we should be using for email on these prototypes?
[17:35:30] <RobH>	not really, your in a sandbox so it doesnt affect the rest of the cluster
[17:37:13] <Ryan_Lane>	ok. I'll set it to send mail via smarthost, and not receive mail
[18:11:25] <RoanKattouw>	Krinkle: iframe should not be live on any wikis any more
[18:11:39] <RoanKattouw>	It was for 36 hours or so, mistake on my part
[18:11:45] <RoanKattouw>	Fixed this like 7 hours ago
[18:13:24] <Krinkle>	ok
[18:13:37] <Krinkle>	But the issue I addressed, what about that ?
[18:13:49] <Krinkle>	Aside from it not being, live. I asume at some point it will be live again ?
[18:16:18] <RoanKattouw>	The line break eating issue is known and is in Bugzilla
[18:16:25] <RoanKattouw>	We won't put the iframe live without fixing that first
[18:17:16] <Krinkle>	k. thx
[18:18:08] <Krinkle>	I saw noticed it a long time ago (not today) - but someone linked me to a sandbox (I thought s-6) where collapsable templates were demo'ed - and there I saw the linebreak problem again - thinking it was still live)
[18:18:46] <RoanKattouw>	Yes, collapsible templates require the iframe
[18:20:51] <Krinkle>	that explains it
[18:23:06] <RoanKattouw>	nkomura: Thanks for clearing that up, I guess I misread and thought it said Commons -> enwiki -> Wikipedia -> other projects while it really said Commons -> enwiki -> (Wikipedia and other projects)
[18:23:32] <nkomura>	no problem
[18:23:47] <nkomura>	i had three blogs to publish yesterday and FAQ was not really finalized yet
[18:36:23] <RoanKattouw>	nimish_g: About? Could you confirm that the iframe is indeed disabled for regular opted-in users in the US? Works fine in Europe
[19:15:19] <hannes_dinner>	adam_miller: hey adam
[19:15:26] <adam_miller>	hello hannes_dinner
[19:16:14] <hannes_backfromd>	I am unsure if I understoiod ur mail right
[19:16:46] <hannes_backfromd>	why do we need another ref icon? we have one - or what do you mean?
[19:17:18] <adam_miller>	we do have one already
[19:17:19] <adam_miller>	?
[19:17:23] <hannes_backfromd>	the book
[19:17:35] <adam_miller>	oh yeah!
[19:17:40] <adam_miller>	i guess that is fine then
[19:18:08] <adam_miller>	trevor mentioned that we needed one, so i was assuming he was right without checking
[19:18:17] <adam_miller>	maybe he just forgot that we had it already
[19:18:40] <RoanKattouw>	Just assume that
[19:18:52] <RoanKattouw>	If he does want a different icon he can tell you when he gets back
[19:20:22] <hannes_backfromd>	I am not a fan of the book-icon either - but I cannot think of any better metaphor for reference
[19:21:23] <hannes_backfromd>	and as far as I know the usability studies revealed that most users understand the book icon
[19:27:39] <RoanKattouw>	nimish_g, parutron: Do you want http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:Code/MediaWiki/64167 to go live for any remaining test subjects?
[19:28:12] <nimish_g>	it wouldn't hurt, it's a known bug
[19:28:20] <RoanKattouw>	And http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:Code/MediaWiki/64175
[19:28:41] <RoanKattouw>	Or did I deploy the latter already
[19:28:42] <nimish_g>	that second one is already live =)
[19:28:52] <RoanKattouw>	I just noticed I'm looking at yesterday's revs, I'm behind on mediawiki-cvs
[19:29:03] <nimish_g>	64167 can go live
[19:30:00] <RoanKattouw>	Once I'm up to date with review I'll merge and deploy trunk state
[19:35:35] <nkomura>	nimish_g and RoanKattouw: are you deploying the change in the midst of the usability study?
[19:36:01] <RoanKattouw>	No no
[19:36:05] <RoanKattouw>	I'm asking whether I should do it
[19:36:10] <nkomura>	i do not feel comfortable changing logic of link dialog
[19:36:18] <RoanKattouw>	I wouldn't dare do anything without Parul's approval
[19:36:39] <nkomura>	(12:29:59 PM) nimish_g: 64167 can go live
[19:37:17] <RoanKattouw>	Right
[19:37:30] <RoanKattouw>	I didn't read that to mean it can go live /right now/
[19:37:37] <nkomura>	1) it contaminates the study
[19:37:42] <nkomura>	2) we have a risk
[19:37:49] <nkomura>	of introducing other changes
[19:38:03] <nkomura>	we experienced that twice already before the dry run and the actual study
[19:40:00] <nkomura>	RoanKattouw: ok
[19:40:12] <nkomura>	thank you for clarifying that
[19:41:12] <RoanKattouw>	OK so no deployments
[19:42:04] <nkomura>	RoanKattouw: that's right
[19:58:53] <nkomura>	RoanKattouw: i have something rather urgent for you to work on
[20:04:40] <RoanKattouw>	OK
[20:05:01] <nkomura>	it is not urgent in a way that it needs to be done at this moment
[20:05:07] <nkomura>	but by early next week
[20:05:19] <nkomura>	so we haven't captured the state of gadget usage
[20:07:00] <nkomura>	we need to have better understanding of gadget usage so that we can reach out to the community to discuss/promote compatibility to vector
[20:08:19] <RoanKattouw>	You want stats about Gadget usage?
[20:08:43] <nkomura>	yes
[20:08:50] <nkomura>	and i'm contemplating how to slice it
[20:08:51] <RoanKattouw>	Someone on wikitech-l pitched the idea of collecting the edit counts distribution of beta users, should be easy to do, is that also something we want?
[20:09:14] <RoanKattouw>	Well I can get you the number of users per gadget, that's a no-brainer
[20:10:14] <nkomura>	i wonder if we should introduce user class by edit counts
[20:10:47] <nkomura>	but gadgets are used by active users (that's my assumption without backed data)
[20:11:08] <RoanKattouw>	Usually, yes
[20:11:15] <RoanKattouw>	But we can get edit count data on those folks too
[20:11:33] <RoanKattouw>	I can just grab the raw data and you and howief can decide how to interpret/classify it
[20:11:56] <nkomura>	k
[20:12:06] <nkomura>	let's do that
[20:13:28] <nkomura>	is there way to correlate active projects of users as well?
[20:13:48] <nkomura>	i think gadget usage varies a lot per project
[20:18:39] <RoanKattouw>	This would be strictly per-wiki
[20:18:52] <RoanKattouw>	You would get separate numbers for every wiki
[20:19:04] <RoanKattouw>	The fact that users are active across wikis would be completely ignored
[20:19:21] <RoanKattouw>	Unless of course we decide to use the global instead of local edit count
[20:34:19] <nkomura>	RoanKattouw: understood
[20:34:44] <RoanKattouw>	I'd like to know which one to use before gathering these stats
[20:35:14] <nkomura>	per wiki or global?
[20:35:40] <nkomura>	per wiki is preferred
[20:35:49] <RoanKattouw>	OK
[20:35:56] <nkomura>	i can select high prioirity wikis if that's helpful
[20:36:01] <RoanKattouw>	Probably not
[20:36:07] <nkomura>	k
[20:36:08] <RoanKattouw>	I'll just do "
[20:36:13] <RoanKattouw>	I'll just do "for every wiki do X"
[20:36:15] <nkomura>	star
[20:36:24] <nkomura>	*
[20:36:40] <RoanKattouw>	Something like that, yes
[20:36:46] <nkomura>	so RoanKattouw, we have a rollback task we would like you to do
[20:36:54] <nkomura>	but it needs to happen one hour from now
[20:36:59] <nkomura>	will you be still around
[20:37:06] <nkomura>	it is to change the css file for the study
[20:38:00] <RoanKattouw>	Exactly one hour from now?
[20:38:05] <RoanKattouw>	What exactly is the time window?
[20:38:16] <nkomura>	like 2:15-2:30 PDT
[20:38:27] <nkomura>	so that is 10:15-30?
[20:38:28] <RoanKattouw>	OK
[20:38:30] <RoanKattouw>	Yes
[20:38:54] <RoanKattouw>	I wanna watch a show that starts at 10:25 so I'll prep it before and deploy at 10:20 or so
[20:39:11] <RoanKattouw>	Exactly what needs rolling back?
[20:39:16] <RoanKattouw>	Also, can I deploy https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=22964 ?
[20:39:19] <nkomura>	http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:Code/MediaWiki/64175
[20:39:39] <RoanKattouw>	Just on production or on trunk too?
[20:40:01] <RoanKattouw>	i.e. do we just want to take this out of production until the next big software update or do we want to take it out the back and shoot it?>
[20:41:02] <nkomura>	on production
[20:41:17] <RoanKattouw>	OK
[20:41:34] <nkomura>	on production today
[20:41:45] <nkomura>	we are examining two UIs unexpectedly
[20:42:17] <nkomura>	nimish_g: will you coordinate the time with RoanKattouw?
[20:42:30] <nkomura>	does 2:15 sound good to rollback the CSS change?
[20:42:31] <RoanKattouw>	nimish_g: I'd like to have this over with by 2:25
[20:43:34] <RoanKattouw>	I always laugh when I get this error: svn: Cannot reverse-merge a range from a path's own future history; try updating first
[20:43:50] <RoanKattouw>	Especially the phrase "future history" confused me the first time
[20:43:56] <nimish_g>	RoanKattouw, stop that time travel nonsense =P
[20:45:00] <nimish_g>	ok, so r64223 in deployment has the rollback, so at around 2:30pm our time, can you svn up /js/plugins/jquery.wikiEditor.html on deployment?
[20:45:01] <RoanKattouw>	lol
[20:45:05] <RoanKattouw>	Yeah thansk
[20:45:12] <RoanKattouw>	I was wondering why my own rollback attempt was conflicting
[20:45:25] <RoanKattouw>	2:30? Really?
[20:45:32] <RoanKattouw>	Do you have a more convenient time for me?
[20:45:40] <RoanKattouw>	Like 2:20 or something
[20:46:05] <nimish_g>	hm...well our participant right now is 23 min in, the sessions are about 1hr 5 min at most
[20:46:30] <RoanKattouw>	Right
[20:46:44] <RoanKattouw>	And when does the next one come in? Right after?
[20:46:57] <nimish_g>	next one is scheduled for 3pm
[20:47:02] <nimish_g>	so we have some overlap
[20:47:05] <nimish_g>	of half an hr
[20:47:19] <RoanKattouw>	OK
[20:47:27] <RoanKattouw>	Good
[20:47:40] <RoanKattouw>	Knowing this network there'll definitely be a commercial break before that time
[20:47:49] <nkomura>	so what time are we shooting for
[20:47:53] <RoanKattouw>	I'll set everything up so I'll just have to flip the switch
[20:47:59] <RoanKattouw>	Probably something on the order of 2:45
[20:48:26] <nkomura>	thank you Roan
[20:48:35] <nkomura>	as for the file insertion bug
[20:48:43] <nkomura>	can we wait until the study is done
[20:48:53] <nkomura>	i know it is a simple bug fix
[20:49:15] <nkomura>	i'm paranoid about the code change in the midst of the usability study
[20:49:37] <RoanKattouw>	OK
[20:49:43] <nkomura>	i didn't notice it was broken i use AMW all the time now
[20:49:55] <RoanKattouw>	I never noticed either
[20:50:15] <nkomura>	it is a stupid bug, we should have caught it :-(
[20:50:16] <RoanKattouw>	I broke it a month ago
[20:50:20] <RoanKattouw>	http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:Code/MediaWiki/62966
[20:50:30] <RoanKattouw>	That's the rev that broke it
[20:50:38] <nkomura>	:(
[20:50:45] <nkomura>	we had many rounds  of test after that
[20:51:02] <nkomura>	this teaches us that we need to test the syntax too
[20:51:06] <nkomura>	lessons learned
[20:51:19] <nkomura>	ok
[20:51:24] <nkomura>	i'm going to pick-up lunch
[20:51:31] <nkomura>	so i'll be away from my desk a bit
[20:51:39] <RoanKattouw>	OK
[20:51:43] <RoanKattouw>	Enjoy
[20:51:55] <RoanKattouw>	Desk? You're not at the study then?
[20:52:14] <nkomura>	no
[20:52:19] <nkomura>	i'm in the office
[20:52:27] <nkomura>	taking care of time critical stuff
[20:52:45] <nkomura>	lots of communications follow-up too after yesterday's posts
[20:53:15] <RoanKattouw>	Yeah I noticed that
[20:57:29] <nimish_g>	RoanKattouw: I'm heading to the office, parutron will give you the signal to sync =)
[20:57:43] <RoanKattouw>	OK
[20:59:52] <parutron>	hey RoanKattouw i'm gonna let you know when we're done with this subject
[21:00:44] <RoanKattouw>	OK
[21:00:50] <RoanKattouw>	The next one is due at 3, right?
[21:00:50] <parutron>	i'd rather not revert the changes that nimish_g made yesterday but it sounds like it's already in works..........look out for my word
[21:00:54] <parutron>	yup
[21:00:59] <RoanKattouw>	Hey if you'd rather not
[21:01:15] <RoanKattouw>	We haven't passed the point of no return yet
[21:01:23] <RoanKattouw>	You can still back out
[21:01:33] <nkomura>	parutron: i talked to nimish_g
[21:01:47] <nkomura>	and he told me that you prefer 50/50 distribution as well
[21:02:18] <nkomura>	RoanKattouw is kindly offering to revert by sacrificing his friday night entertainment
[21:02:28] <RoanKattouw>	heh
[21:02:29] <parutron>	it was my understanding that switching back and forth requires ops and control that are not necessarily reliable and easy to control.
[21:02:36] <RoanKattouw>	I would do it during a commercial break
[21:02:57] <nkomura>	css change is contained in terms of risk
[21:02:58] <parutron>	with that information i would choose to keep it as is for the remainder of all studies.
[21:03:04] <nkomura>	and RoanKattouw is available
[21:03:30] <nkomura>	parutron: why is that?
[21:03:36] <RoanKattouw>	Yeah CSS changes are no big deal
[21:03:45] <nkomura>	i feel not reverting contaminates the study
[21:04:02] <nkomura>	we are not pushing out the bug fixes
[21:05:07] <parutron>	if we can change it and achieve 50/50 - i am happy
[21:05:17] <parutron>	but not at the cost of a lot of ops/overtime, etc
[21:05:25] <nkomura>	let's do it then
[21:05:38] <RoanKattouw>	It's just a push of the button
[21:05:48] <nkomura>	thank you RoanKattouw
[21:05:57] <parutron>	great - push of the button is easier than what i had imagined....
[21:06:01] <RoanKattouw>	Ops doesn't care about CSS changes because they don't bring the site donw
[21:06:05] <parutron>	great!
[21:06:10] <nkomura>	parutron: please let RoanKattouw know when the change need to happen
[21:06:21] <parutron>	if that's the case, i'll let you know well in advance for the changes we'll schedule next week as well
[21:06:25] <nkomura>	do we have a tentative time we can shoot for?
[21:07:00] <parutron>	and will also let you know when we're done with this subject.  which will be close enough 4/6 but better that than have you wait around, in my opinion.
[21:07:08] <parutron>	yup.  2:45
[21:07:16] <RoanKattouw>	OK that should work
[21:07:16] <parutron>	2:45 pm here in SF
[21:07:30] <RoanKattouw>	I'll depend on when exactly NET5 has scheduled their commercial breaks :)
[21:07:40] <parutron>	haha.  i think i can make that happen for you ;)
[21:08:35] <RoanKattouw>	So if that's earlier than 2:45 I'll double-check with you whether I'm clear
[21:08:43] <parutron>	sure thing
[21:09:03] <parutron>	i'm keeping my irc open right next to my notes.
[21:09:19] <parutron>	you'll have to tell me what NETS is during said commercial break.
[21:09:27] <RoanKattouw>	NET5
[21:09:29] <RoanKattouw>	5, not S
[21:09:33] <RoanKattouw>	It's a cable network over here
[21:37:52] <RoanKattouw_away>	parutron: Commercial break now, ready to roll?
[21:39:04] <parutron>	JINX
[21:39:10] <parutron>	just pulling it up to tell you
[21:39:10] <RoanKattouw_away>	?
[21:39:13] <parutron>	our subject has left
[21:39:21] <parutron>	t minus 20 minutes until the next subject.
[21:39:26] <RoanKattouw_away>	OK so we'
[21:39:31] <RoanKattouw_away>	re good to go?
[21:39:32] <parutron>	that worked out perfectly
[21:39:36] <parutron>	she literally just left
[21:39:41] <RoanKattouw_away>	Nice
[21:40:24] <RoanKattouw_away>	Deploying now
[21:41:11] <RoanKattouw_away>	parutron: Done, please verify
[21:41:39] <parutron>	give me a sec
[21:45:06] <RoanKattouw_away>	I'm gone now
[21:51:15] <thedj>	RoanKattouw_away: did you up the style version number after fixing iframe inclusion ?
[21:53:43] <parutron>	verifying now
[21:56:48] <parutron>	looks good to go
[21:59:48] <RoanKattouw_away>	thedj: Yes
[22:10:03] <parutron>	RoanKattouw
[22:10:05] <parutron>	guillom:
[22:10:07] <parutron>	nimish_g:
[22:10:15] <parutron>	can someone help me unblock one of our study accounts
[22:10:43] <parutron>	sigh
[22:10:45] <parutron>	anyone?
[22:12:28] <parutron>	well we have others and it might not be blocked
[22:12:46] <parutron>	but for account Usability 5 all of the "edit" tabs are "view source"
[22:12:55] <parutron>	which is assume is what happens when you're blocked.
[22:37:53] <RoanKattouw_away>	Yes
[22:37:57] <RoanKattouw_away>	Need an unblock still?
[22:38:29] <parutron>	hi hi hi
[22:38:41] <RoanKattouw_away>	Hm I don't see a block entry
[22:38:47] <parutron>	yes, if you can.  if not, i think we should have enough accounts as it looks like that was the only one that was effected
[22:38:50] <parutron>	affected
[22:39:00] <parutron>	i'm not sure if it's "blocked" per se
[22:39:10] <RoanKattouw_away>	You sure they're not just looking at protected pages?
[22:39:13] <parutron>	but instead of having an edit tab - all pages just had "view source"
[22:39:13] <parutron>	yeah
[22:39:21] <parutron>	fuel injection
[22:39:29] <parutron>	which i verified wasn't otherwise locked/protected
[22:39:50] <RoanKattouw_away>	WTF
[22:39:56] <RoanKattouw_away>	Why can't staff members block people
[22:42:27] <RoanKattouw_away>	parutron: Apparently being a staff member isn't enough to unblock someone :(
[22:42:30] <RoanKattouw_away>	Going back to the TV now
[22:42:35] <parutron>	boooo
[22:42:43] <parutron>	thanks roan, think nimish_g is on the trail now....
[22:43:15] <parutron>	nimish_g: can it be that it's semi-protected
[22:44:09] <nimish_g>	yeah, it looks like that's the case
[22:44:24] <parutron>	and so none of our accounts should be editing said semi-protected pages?
[22:44:25] <parutron>	or can?
[22:45:09] <parutron>	nimish_g?
[22:45:10] <parutron>	sorry
[22:45:18] <parutron>	just want to know so i can advise nash when necessary
[22:46:04] <nimish_g>	yeah, if the little lock is there, tell him it's semi-protected...ya they shouldn't be editing it b/c if they were a first-time editor, they wouldn't be able to edit it anyways
[22:46:17] <parutron>	cooooool thanks thanks
[22:47:33] <parutron>	weird - on my account i can edit those semi protected pages
[22:47:39] <parutron>	but i've made less edits than our accounts
[23:01:29] <nimish_g>	parutron: you might be staff
[23:01:47] <parutron>	oh
[23:03:10] <parutron>	i never told anyone to give my account special priviledges as such
[23:06:03] <parutron>	nimish_g: another thought:  instead of struglling to support dual mode template editing, it might be something that always stays in prefs
[23:06:06] <parutron>	i.e. one view or the other
[23:06:21] <parutron>	if you don't specify you get a capsule (which in this case would just be a button)
[23:06:29] <parutron>	also shown in a nice way in the TOC
[23:06:35] <parutron>	people that edit templates can change their view
[23:06:46] <parutron>	because it has been an ongoing, er, struggle to support both
[23:06:49] <parutron>	something to consider......
[23:08:55] <nimish_g>	parutron: actually I think that the form aspect of template editing is kind of weird as it is now...it sucessfully *hides* information but doesn't really successfully let you add information to a template unless you were changing a form. I think we should support the collapsing/expanding text more but the form should be beefed up *alot* before we release it as a general "only way to edit template" thing...just su
[23:09:21] <parutron>	i agree but you know that's not gonna happen, right?
[23:09:40] <parutron>	we shouldn't do this until we can have an edit button the infobox on the article page
[23:09:53] <parutron>	and the pop up looks similar to it does on the page too
[23:10:39] <nimish_g>	yeah, we keep getting people looking to the right of the article text (where the TOC is) because, I think they're mapping it to the same place
[23:18:01] <thedj>	parutron: i'm an enwp admin too, so if you ever need help again in that department
[23:18:16] <parutron>	thanks thedj
[23:18:23] <parutron>	btw thedj where are you located?
[23:23:09] <thedj>	parutron: netherlands
[23:23:41] <thedj>	btw. is jquery supposed to be loaded on all pages now ?
[23:23:51] <thedj>	when you have beta active.
[23:24:21] <nimish_g>	thedj: I think so, it comes with the new search
[23:24:40] <thedj>	right. and to move the tab on small window sizes of course.
[23:24:53] <thedj>	Krinkle: ok. so then it's ok :D
[23:24:56] <Krinkle>	thedj: Loading it on the frontpage might also be good for caching.
[23:25:01] <Krinkle>	oh, nvm. it has a function too :P
[23:30:25] <guillom>	parutron, sorry, I was away from the keyboard ; do you still need help?
[23:31:43] <guillom>	I don't see anything in the block log of user:usability 5
[23:32:05] <guillom>	probably was a protected page
[23:32:11] <guillom>	ah, but you figured that out already
[23:36:29] <thedj>	ps, as you might have noticed, when visiting protectedpages on enwp, there is now an "editrequest" button.
[23:37:40] <thedj>	see for instance: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Infobox&action=edit when you are non-admin/staff
[23:39:22] <thedj>	this is how it looks: http://imagebin.ca/view/FcEIG1.html
[23:40:49] <guillom>	nifty
[23:41:17] <thedj>	it does a preload action on the talkpage with the editprotected template.
[23:41:19] <guillom>	thedj, what does it do? open a new section with {{editprotected}} on the talk page? Or opens a dialog?
[23:41:21] <guillom>	ok
[23:41:42] <guillom>	that's the kind of things that could easily be integrated into my Flows thing
[23:43:06] <thedj>	we need to cleanup the notice boxes a bit more. too many and too much info, but it's a start (and still experimental as well)