[08:30:02] hey adam_miller and RoanKattouw are youn there? [08:30:14] i certainly am [08:30:26] I'm here [08:30:28] cool [08:30:37] I got a question about the wp logo size [08:30:52] are there any specifications from the technical side? [08:31:13] didn't trevor instruct you to keep the dimensions and format the same? [08:31:40] no he just said we cannot split it into 3 files [08:31:57] but if we create new files with the same size we should be fine right? [08:33:27] i'm still unsure what splitting it into three files gains us [08:34:13] just re-read the email thread and it seems that the dimensions of the logo images vary across wikis [08:34:34] oh really? that would have been my next question [08:34:39] thats bad [08:34:57] re-read that email from trevor from march 22 [08:35:00] I thought the file itself remains the same dimensions - while the globe can vary [08:35:30] maybe that's the case, i really don't know much about this issue [08:35:48] hmm ok [08:36:06] it really should be the same size for all wikimedia wikis [08:36:32] RoanKattouw: do you know anything about that? [08:36:38] Nope [08:37:09] RoanKattouw: what was that tag I was supposed to add to r64400? [08:37:13] scrap something [08:37:14] ok so I ll ask trevor about it [08:37:23] btw it s his birthday today?! [08:37:57] maybe we can arrange some IRC birthday singing when he joins the channel [08:38:11] adam_miller: Didn't that rev remove the IE restriction *and* fix the IE bug? [08:38:30] yeah, it's kindof a hack fix though [08:38:32] I don't know when his birthday is exactly, although I do seem to recall it's in March [08:38:38] adam_miller: If it works, it's a fix [08:38:44] it's a fix! [08:39:12] i changed them so we close the dialogs before doing the manipulations on the text area, so focus is regained in the appropriate spot [08:39:30] Yeah I saw and figured [08:39:36] In that case you don't need a tag [08:39:43] k [08:39:47] We use the 'scaptrap' tag for revisions that are dangerous to deploy [08:40:15] ahh, got it. [08:40:31] RoanKattouw: I believe r64234 is all better now [08:42:20] and does something on r63230 still need fixed? [08:42:33] trying to clear up all of my fixmes [08:43:52] Oh I never got around to giving that a second look [08:44:02] But if it works I believe you [09:29:21] RoanKattouw: how low do we go with opera support? [09:29:45] As low as is convenient [09:29:48] Usually 9.6 [09:29:50] i bet there's a page on the usability wiki that would tell me this.... [09:30:10] ok, i'm just seeing some post dialog insertion text selection issues in 9.6 [09:30:19] i think i've got them fixed everywhere else [09:30:50] If you just have them in 9.6 and 9.8 is fine, you're justified to up the requirement for that. Opera 9.6 is like 7 people AFAIK [09:49:17] the he.wiki does not want to change the default skin to vector, but stay with monobook (incl. using old toolbar, etc). where is the right place to bring this to your attention? [09:50:35] This would be a good place yoniDeBest, http://usability.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:What%27s_new,_questions_and_answers [09:52:41] a link to the local discussion about this topic would be appreciated, too, to show that this opinion represents the whole community [09:55:50] Ha [09:55:55] http://usability.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:What%27s_new,_questions_and_answers#MediaWiki:Sidebar is a very good question [09:56:01] I'll point Trevor to it when he's here [09:57:12] thanks [09:57:26] i will add a link to discussion too [10:01:24] Just replied to the suggestion that the Usability Initiative is nothing but a new face on existing issues (foundation-l) [10:06:58] if it turns out we are forced to change to vector, where is the correct place to discuss problems in the Hebrew Wikipedia where they can be fixed asap? [10:09:21] Depends on what these problems are [10:10:49] well, the first one i can think of is getting the new toolbar to do the things our old one does [10:14:00] Most of that is community JS, right? [10:14:19] Also, we've very recently added nowiki and redirect buttons [10:14:24] (not live yet) [10:14:32] another is removing the dropdown menu which is next to the star-watch button, and replacing it with visible clickable tabs. some have said they find they need to click more times in the beta in order to do the same action in monobook [10:14:48] http://wikitech.wikimedia.org/view/Usability [10:15:47] i also wonder, are such community-spesific fixes done on user side or server side? i think that fixed changes should be done in the source code. [10:16:04] Only if they're for all wikis [10:16:13] i see [10:16:24] Wiki-specific stuff goes in site JS [10:16:29] (Common.js) [10:17:53] right. well, i guess some simply this this is unnecessary duplicity. i.e. changing the source code and then changing it back using js. [10:18:01] think* [10:19:47] hi nkomura [10:20:31] do we have a meeting today? [11:00:15] RoanKattouw_away: you there? [11:00:35] i sent you a link to a presentation [11:10:54] hi nimish_g [11:11:12] hey [11:12:25] if you are done with evaluating the bug fixes you staged and QA'd [11:13:48] looking at them now =) [11:14:05] we want to start staging the candidate build for default [11:32:59] *RoanKattouw updates the prototypes once more [11:33:57] RoanKattouw: updating with what build? [11:34:38] Newest trunk [11:37:48] nimish_g was still verifying the bug fixes he staged yesterday [11:37:48] nimish_g: were you done? [11:37:48] nkomura: yep, they were verified, except it looks like there was some confusion with the templates-not-exploding-on-paste issue...it seems calcey didn't quite understand it, so I re-checked it on my windows install and it looks good [11:37:48] k [11:40:12] TrevorParscal: [11:40:19] Loving your opening slides :D [11:42:28] parutron: how was the feedback on the collapsible left nav from the study participants? [11:43:10] we will need to make a decision quickly [11:43:49] the interaction was seamless [11:44:00] but the contents are still......not exactly what users are looking for [11:44:09] as a feature, i think we can release. [11:44:43] when ready of course - we haven't looked deep into other languages OR other projects. [11:46:38] the first default rollout starts with Commons on april 5 [11:47:23] let's stage it on prototype and pound on it a little [11:49:40] parutron: and nkomura I think the only confusion in the user studies with the leftnav was when we asked people to make new articles, some of them would start opening the tabs on the left to find the 'new article...' option, but I think that was a result of how we were asking them. Once we had Nash ask in a more natural way ("say there was a made-up historical figure...how would you start that article?") they were fine. aside from that, I di [11:54:01] RoanKattouw: will you enable collapsible left nav to prototypes [11:54:01] ? [11:54:13] All prototypes? [11:55:13] yes please [11:56:04] hannes-_- and parutron: new toolbar is ready on prototypes [11:56:31] *RoanKattouw enables SimpleSearch on all prototypes while he's on it [11:57:57] yay [12:03:02] TrevorParscal: For after the meeting, here's an interesting question for you: http://usability.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:What%27s_new,_questions_and_answers#MediaWiki:Sidebar [12:09:18] hi mdale! [12:09:27] hi parutron [12:09:30] mdale i heard you got married! [12:09:33] i believe a congrats is in order!!!! how did the wedding go!??!?! [12:09:38] thanks [12:09:42] PICTURES! [12:09:45] congratulations!!!! [12:09:52] PICTURES [12:09:59] also congrats [12:09:59] YIPPPPEEEEEE!!!! [12:10:05] are you in Mexico now? [12:10:07] also: HAPPY BIRTHDAY! [12:10:27] irc is not the best medium to convey these exclamations. [12:10:43] hehe [12:10:52] yes I am in mexico right now [12:11:04] mdale: Daniel Phelps just wandered by passing out checks saying that you take a month OOO for every birthday [12:11:33] I do what I can ;) [12:11:50] mdale's a chatbot with commit access guys [12:11:55] don't encourage it [12:12:01] xD [12:12:02] hm [12:12:15] so we need to have a ig party when you get back [12:12:16] I think there are a number of other devs on #mediawiki I might accuse of being chatbots [12:12:18] big even [12:12:22] *mdale tries to think of something non-chat-bot to say [12:12:35] that's exactly what a chatbot would say [12:12:43] and how does mdale feel about think of something non-chat-bot to say [12:13:23] RoanKattouw: i don't see left nav nor simplified search on prototypes.. [18:19:56] nkomura_mtng: I'll poke at it again in a minute, I got distracted [18:20:08] mdale: congrats!!! [18:20:19] i didn't know that you were getting married [18:20:25] we have to celebrate [18:20:42] ;) [18:21:32] Whee [18:21:36] Congrats dude [18:22:56] mdale: when will you be back? [18:23:03] 19th or so [18:24:27] will you return with your wife? [18:27:34] nkomura_mtng: not initially [18:29:13] i hope you can be together without interruptions soon... [18:30:28] thanks [18:37:29] nkomura_mtng, parutron: CollapsibleNav works on prototypes now [18:37:45] *nkomura_mtng goes to look [18:37:47] awesome! great! i'm heading out but will give it a look see when i get back! [18:42:14] nice [18:42:35] parutron: let's discuss the default behavior of collapsed/expanded [18:42:54] *nkomura_mtng is referring to left nav [19:09:51] hi RoanKattouw [19:10:39] Hi [19:11:32] i don't see collapsible left nav on non-english prototypes [19:11:39] ^ [19:12:13] *nkomura wonders what RoanKattouw means by ^ [19:12:33] Try now [19:12:37] That was a raised eyebrow [19:12:42] Supposed to say ^^ [19:12:55] RoanKattouw: can we turn on the simple search please? [19:13:00] I made some sweet changes [19:13:10] TrevorParscal: Already done [19:13:15] And I reviewed the sweet changes [19:13:28] Oh wait [19:13:33] I'm probably missing that other var [19:13:39] Damn you $wgVectorEnableSimpleSearch [19:13:42] i got collapsible left nav on ja.prototype [19:13:54] but simplified search disappeared [19:14:24] Enabled for real nwo [19:14:29] i see it now [19:19:35] RoanKattouw: do redirects have to appear at the top of an article? [19:19:46] No, they can be anywhere [19:19:50] Or wait [19:19:51] k [19:19:51] Maybe [19:19:53] hmm [19:19:56] I'm actually not sure [19:20:00] Why don't you try :D [19:20:07] i was hpping you knew before I tried [19:20:32] i am not seeing hover-over text for toolbar icons [19:20:53] for all languages on prototypes [19:21:14] they need to be at the top [19:21:45] or they just output the equiv of "# REDIRECT [[LINK HERE]]" [19:21:53] TrevorParscal: can we look at the click tracking data from the old toolbar? [19:21:59] Right [19:22:07] i don't recall redirect was frequently used [19:22:09] I've been messing around in that code once, but that was a long time go [19:22:14] So I'm wondering if the redirect too should always add the text to the top, and scroll to the top [19:22:33] nkomura: the click tracking said it was [19:22:50] nowiki too [19:22:56] that's why we added them [19:22:57] i recall nowiki did [19:23:09] let me pull up parul's spreadsheet [19:23:36] RoanKattouw: did nimish_g get in touch with you about deploying the bug fixes for the usability study? [19:24:01] Parul e-mailed me [19:24:16] Lemme revisit that e-mail [19:24:54] i'm going to patch the tooltip dissapearance regression quickly [19:24:57] Yeah she asked me to switch CSS between the Thu and Fri sessions [19:25:07] TrevorParscal: Which one is that? [19:25:08] RoanKattouw: it's the same bugs that I emailed from last night [19:25:22] OK so exactly what do we want to be deployed when? [19:25:54] ok, so we want those 3 things from last night deployed before the studies tomorrow [19:25:54] I know I need to revert Nimish's latest revision to wmf-deployment (which was itself a revert) on Friday morning [19:26:00] OK so now [19:27:56] yeah that works too =) [19:28:13] parutron: I have an interaction book here...is it yours? [19:40:42] TrevorParscal: redirect ranks at 15 from old toolbar click tracking [19:41:02] i don't agree that it warrants to be on the top toolbar [19:41:12] It wouldn't be [19:41:18] It's in the advanced section currently [19:41:48] he was suggesting early to move to the top earlier [19:42:45] RoanKattouw: what do you think of importing this into our jquery? =) http://plugins.jquery.com/project/crash [19:50:16] RoanKattouw let me know when you've rolled out those merges to production [19:51:27] OK I'm on it [19:51:32] I'm just gonna deploy trunk I guess [19:56:18] hm, that might not be the best idea since we're still developing untested code on trunk (including what buttons go where in the toolbar)...do you want me to merge the stuff into wmf-deployment and then just give you the OK to update the (I think 3) files on the clusters? [19:57:38] OK [19:57:44] Yeah you're right we don't wanna deploy the rearrangements [20:11:10] RoanKattouw: do I do a version bump for these in the deployment branch? [20:11:42] The revisions you're merging should include version bumps [20:16:46] hi hejko [20:25:22] nimish_g: Thanks for the merge, I'll deploy it [20:25:23] ok RoanKattouw the revision is http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:Code/MediaWiki/64455, can you eyeball it once just for my own sanity before deploying [20:25:35] Already looked at it [20:25:37] sweet [20:32:02] k lemme know when it's deployed so I can double-check the functionality on the study accts [20:32:06] All done [20:32:09] RoanKattouw: ^^ [20:32:12] sweet! [20:35:44] RoanKattouw: when you have a moment, will you help me to debug the question from the Commons community [20:36:00] Sure [20:36:13] http://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Commons:Village_pump&oldid=36349279#CatScan_link_in_Vector_skin [20:36:27] so there is a task called CatScan [20:36:54] it is not just for admin, but also for users as well [20:38:44] guillom: how does one enable "catscan" for commons? [20:39:07] Ah I recognize this issue [20:39:11] ProofreadPage had it too [20:39:17] There's this line in their JS [20:39:19] var c1 = document.getElementById('p-cactions'); [20:39:33] Needs to say var c1 = document.getElementById('p-namespaces') || document.getElementById('p-cactions'); [20:39:39] nkomura, let me check [20:40:21] Strike that [20:40:28] var c1 = document.getElementById('p-views') || document.getElementById('p-cactions'); [20:40:35] nkomura: ---^^ [20:41:42] can you explain it to me in simple English :D [20:41:52] haha [20:42:20] The JavaScript has a line in it that says var c1 = document.getElementById('p-cactions'); [20:42:34] Which results in it adding the catscan link to the element called 'p-cactions' [20:42:43] Now in Monobook that's the one with delete, move, etc. [20:42:48] In Vector that's the dropdown [20:43:08] Presumably, they want it to go with the Edit/History tabs, that part is called 'p-views' in Vector [20:43:20] So the code they need is var c1 = document.getElementById('p-views') || document.getElementById('p-cactions'); [20:43:33] which adds to p-views if available (Vector) or to p-cactions if not (Monobook) [20:44:07] nkomura, I don't know, I don't see a gadget for catscan (also called category intersect) ; it's mainly a toolserver tool, perhaps what they're talking about is an additional tab on their interface, but I don't know how they add it [20:44:50] i can see it CatScan link in the drop-down menu [20:45:00] Yes [20:45:01] if i follow the link provided [20:45:12] I'll just fix their script for them [20:45:34] guillom: [20:45:44] guillom: thank you for looking it up [20:45:54] thanks RoanKattouw [20:46:19] nkomura: everything deployed and is working right but the accounts don't seem to have collapsible nav enabled anymore [20:46:40] I'll go into the DB and try and fix that [20:46:51] nimish_g: oh... that's not good [20:47:36] RoanKattouw: i'd appreciate if you can reply to the thread [20:47:51] I'm just fixing the script instead [20:48:29] Bleh Vector's CSS is stupid [20:48:34] *RoanKattouw throws things at TrevorParscal [20:48:49] It sets the font size on a span instead of the a itsefl [20:49:04] I'm gonna make the script just add the wrapping span [20:49:10] But we should really allow non-span-wrapped things if at all possible [20:50:53] trevor is out for lunch, you can throw things at him safely [20:52:51] *RoanKattouw throws more things at Trevor [20:53:08] It also assumes the watch star is always last, if not the borders are weird [20:55:47] RoanKattouw: why can't CatScan be in the drop-down? [20:56:07] It can be [20:56:12] But they would like it not to be [20:56:15] So I'm fixing that for them now [20:57:00] i thought you said you are putting it next to the top nav tabs [20:58:00] I am [20:58:28] i read the thread differently [20:58:29] My rants were about certain things in the Vector skin being weird and making my life difficult [20:58:49] Oh right [20:58:52] i thought admins can see CatScan in Vector [20:59:01] Yeah they don't explicitly say they want to move it out [20:59:03] but users who enabled them can't [20:59:20] It's just that the dropdown doesn't get shown for non-admins so there's nothing to add the catscan link to [20:59:43] i see [20:59:53] hi [20:59:56] I guess I did something different [21:00:03] so we will have two different UI to support CatScan? [21:00:05] ih 0 U [21:00:06] ave t [21:00:06] u [21:00:12] I have things to do? [21:00:15] nkomura: No, it'll actually be closer to the Monobook UI [21:00:23] TrevorParscal: Yes, read my rant [21:00:38] nkomura: CatScan and similar things will now always be outside of the dropdown [21:00:45] in the backlog [21:00:49] about the font size? [21:00:51] With this change I made at least [21:00:52] what's wrong? [21:01:07] TrevorParscal: blah blah a span { font-size: 0.8em; } [21:01:18] yeah [21:01:19] Standard scripts add Foo because Monobook doesn't use spans --> font size fail [21:01:21] that's on purpose [21:01:35] Why couldn't you put a font-size on the a? [21:01:40] it's by far simpler than the other approaches to solving cross-browser issues [21:01:57] I know the usage of spans was to solve cross-browser issues [21:02:03] But can't the font size setting be on both then? [21:02:07] *nkomura got to go to a meetng [21:02:11] because the span needs to be able to use em measurements relative to the global 1em rather than the scaled down 0.8em [21:02:20] Ah [21:02:23] Right [21:02:37] if you try and do it the other way, it will always miscalculate and screw up [21:04:54] guillom: Great so they archived that thread. Now where the hell do I leave my "It's fixed now, yay" comment? [21:07:38] TrevorParscal: i'll be in the meeting till a little after 3ish [21:08:12] can we talk about dialog support for IEs in addition to "take me back" flow later? [21:08:21] RoanKattouw: just committed a sweet Vector patch [21:15:20] RoanKattouw: Usability 2-6 have the collapsible-nav pref set in the DB but collapsible nav isn't showing up...know why? [21:15:40] Oh yeah I made a change sorry [21:16:57] OK try now [21:21:37] TrevorParscal: That rev is Chinese to me, best I can say is bump $wgStyleVersion [21:21:45] nimish_g: Is that fixed now? [21:25:47] RoanKattouw: Have you asked TrevorParscal about the question I had yesterday? [21:26:43] No, I was counting on him to get back to you [21:26:49] Here's here now so I suggest you ask him yourself [21:27:19] omg? [21:27:28] I just wrote TrevorParscal: :d [21:27:33] And he runs... [21:30:50] RoanKattouw: yes it's working [21:31:01] Cool [22:27:30] TrevorParscal: Is there any reason why content actions don't get added to special pages? [22:34:02] Specifically, why Vector doesn't call it's SkinTemplateNavigation hook for specialpage views [22:35:20] it uses SkinTemplateNavigation rather than SkinTemplateTabs [22:35:43] which allows you to modify the structured menu rather than a flat array [22:35:44] *its [22:35:50] He knows htat [22:35:56] But that hook isn't called for special page views [22:36:05] For some dark undocumented reason [22:36:11] hmm [22:36:11] Indeed. [22:36:13] i see that [22:36:20] on line 311 of Vector.php [22:36:23] it's called [22:36:27] but that's within an if [22:36:32] which checks if it's a content apge [22:36:34] *page [22:36:41] Of course [22:36:49] But why did you write it this way? [22:37:01] Why does the else branch not call the hook? [22:37:58] Well, skin template uses SkinTemplateBuildContentActionUrlsAfterSpecialPage in this case [22:38:53] hmm [22:39:09] I didn't make any decision here on purpose [22:39:55] i copy-pasted the SkinTemplate::buildContentActionUrls and made it provide more structured output [22:41:03] JeroenDeDauw: are you using SkinTemplateContentActions? [22:41:08] Vector doesn't call that right now [22:41:35] TrevorParscal: I'm using SkinTemplateNavigation for vector and SkinTemplateTabs for other skins. [22:41:59] and SkinTemplateTabs is showing tabs on a special page [22:42:08] ? [22:42:24] that makes no sense [22:42:36] Hi, I see the action-links (even those generated by js) now jump out of their menu and use hte width available. That's fantastic [22:42:42] I don't know, only tried vector so far. [22:43:02] SkinTemplateTabs is not executed for a special page either [22:43:11] However, I suggest the watchlist-star stays on the righthand side of the dropdown-arrow and not between the other tabs [22:43:12] Krinkle: :) [22:43:12] So is this design or accident? [22:43:52] JeroenDeDauw: just me following status quo [22:44:00] because the links are inserts after the star instead of before it, there is also a seperator-line missing to the right of the star [22:44:06] content actions for special pages have never worked [22:44:12] Krinkle: On Commons? I hacked the JS there [22:44:27] RoanKattouw: Aha, that explains why it's only there [22:44:33] RoanKattouw: Anyhow, it's not perfect yet :) [22:44:42] read above [22:44:50] Yeah that's the other part of my rant TrevorParscal: Vector's CSS assumes the watch star is always the last item in #p-views [22:44:51] Krinkle: watch is a menu item, just like the others - it just has an icon rather than a label [22:44:58] Krinkle: I did fix that on Commons [22:45:10] TrevorParscal: Can this be changed? I'd be really neat if I could have one on a special page I'm creating. [22:45:18] Krinkle: Shift+Refresh a category page on Commons and you should see the CatScan tab in the right place [22:45:29] TrevorParscal: Navigation != content actions [22:45:47] RoanKattouw: in other skins, those are synonomous actually [22:45:49] same array [22:45:54] it's a total misnomer [22:45:54] Lemme show you what it looks like for me: http://i.imgur.com/3OvSh.png [22:46:13] I also don't see much sense in not having ot work for special pages, as the hooks temselves can specify not to add anything to special pages. [22:46:16] I feel the star should stay in it's original place next to the down-arrow [22:46:17] only Vector makes the distrinction between namespaces, variants, views and actions [22:46:34] TrevorParscal: I know but once should be able to modify namespaces, variants and views for special pages, even if actions can't be modified [22:46:38] *one [22:46:41] and because vector asumes so, the seperator line next to it is missing [22:46:47] Indeed [22:46:58] RoanKattouw: again - not saying that I'm against that [22:47:25] Krinkle: You have a mixture of extension-added and JS-added things I guess [22:47:32] just saying, it would require changing both SkinTemplate and SkinVector - so we need to be careful [22:47:35] Krinkle: Could you try to specifically get CatScan to show up? [22:47:39] esp. right before going default [22:47:50] TrevorParscal: It would just require moving that wfRunHooks() call outside the if() [22:47:52] That's all [22:48:05] Right now it says "you can only modify my navigation structure if you're not a special page" [22:48:13] That restriction could just be removed [22:48:35] RoanKattouw: Could break backward compatibility with hooks that depend on the actions not getting added to special pages though. [22:48:41] agreed - I'm saying we should be conservative until we go default on how much of the skinning system we change [22:48:42] ^^ [22:48:53] Yeah I guess that's a valid concern [22:49:01] i think the restriction is silly [22:49:02] RoanKattouw: I'm not following, what do you want me to do ? [22:49:17]