[15:36:51] hi peeps [15:44:28] Is there a page explaining the transition from Monobook to Vector? [15:45:30] Marybelle what kind of explanation are you looking for ? [15:45:49] "How do I move my CSS?" etc. [15:45:55] I started one, but I figured there was one already. [15:47:14] Marybelle is back! [15:47:21] ! [15:47:42] There have been some postings about issues ... [15:47:54] http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Vector [15:48:19] I am wary about personal CSS as it is very much a work in progress and prone to break [15:48:51] Commons provides in its lack of support for RtL languages a good indicator how much still needs to be done [15:49:40] Commons is fervent in its dedication to not supporting RtL languages! [15:50:43] Commons American Sign Language Forever o/ [15:50:50] Read from the left like normal folk. [15:51:00] http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_comment/Shut_down_Wikiversity is amusing. [15:51:09] indeed. [15:51:19] that's getting almost as much as removing the founder flag. [15:51:24] ^support [15:54:18] GerardM-, http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/%D8%B5%D9%81%D8%AD%D9%87%D9%94_%D8%A7%D8%B5%D9%84%DB%8C?uselang=fa looks fine to me. [15:59:44] Looks like gibberish to me. [15:59:50] Carybelle it looks better then the last time I looked :) [16:00:02] Marybelle try ka or kn [16:00:12] other types of gibberish [16:00:43] http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/%D8%B5%D9%81%D8%AD%D9%87%D9%94_%D8%A7%D8%B5%D9%84%DB%8C?uselang=fa&useskin=vector [16:00:46] Is Commons switching today? [16:01:29] http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Main%20Page?uselang=dv this is gibberish. [16:01:41] What if a chicken typed in the sand. [16:02:04] *Carybelle hopes there's no Maldivians in here. [16:02:13] Divehi is not as well localised as Farsi .. [16:02:34] I just deliberately destroyed cache. [16:02:36] I feel dirty. [16:02:46] Johnny cache [16:02:57] it is likely to suffer from the change [16:03:19] the mid-life change? [16:03:20] hopefully it gets us people with a renewed interest in localising at translatewiki.net [16:04:52] I commented at Meta. [16:05:06] Err, Commons. [16:05:09] I commented at Commons. [16:05:18] I also fixed some royal stupidity there earlier. [16:05:24] Commoners are idiots. [16:06:10] The Divehi main page does not actually exist. [16:06:38] Forsooth! [16:06:53] Marybelle idiocy is universal [16:07:06] Commons excels at it. [16:09:04] http://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:JarlaxleArtemis&diff=prev&oldid=37291762 [16:09:51] Yeah. [16:09:55] As I said, idiotic. [16:55:29] good morning adam_miller [16:55:40] morning nkomura [16:56:20] trevor will be offline for a few hours as he is sick [16:56:38] too sick to log into IRC? [16:56:55] we found out that RTL support for Commons is rudimentary, and CSS is hacked to make it work for monobook [16:57:07] cary-meeting: yeah trevor is pretty bed-bound [16:57:24] i mean pretty much bet-bound at the moment [16:58:47] adam_miller: the tab order of Vector in RTL for commons is messed up [16:59:06] i'll take a look [16:59:12] thanks [17:00:37] also hannes had a few comments about look and feel not quite up-to-date [17:27:40] nkomura: is there a particular page the tabs are incorrectly ordered on? [17:28:02] it is for all pages [17:28:17] looks fine to me on the main page [17:28:31] you will need to change your language preference to Arabic or Hebrew in multilingual wiki such as commons [17:28:55] http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Main_Page [17:29:39] if you change your lang setting to hebrew or arabic, you will see the tab orders are not symmetric to LTR [17:30:20] i always test with the uselang GET parameter [17:30:36] does this look the same to you? http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Main_Page?uselang=ar [17:30:46] is this in a particular browser? [17:31:47] that'll work too [17:33:00] so you see the search box appears inside of 'read', 'edit' and drop-down tab navigation [17:33:27] nkomura: no i don't see that. what browser? [17:33:53] i use FF3 / ubuntu 9.04 [17:34:28] k i'll try that [17:40:34] nkomura: emailed you a screenshot [17:43:13] adam_miller: no, i'm not seeing that.. [17:43:42] are you on FF3.5 or FF3? [17:43:58] 3.5.6 [17:44:42] it may be FF3 specific [17:44:48] let me send you the screenshot [18:03:43] hi nkomura, can you point me to that Usability features and status google spreadsheet please... again [18:03:52] i promise to bookmark it this time :) [18:04:02] sure np [18:11:11] howief: did you hear back from popular commons gadget writers? [18:11:57] i haven't gotten any direct responses [18:12:02] but let me check the talk pages [18:15:59] nkomura: nothing on the talk pages for the top 4 gadgets [18:16:34] thanks [18:27:25] nkomura: finally got FF3.0.19 installed on ubuntu, but I still cant replicate it [18:27:46] that's odd.. [18:28:55] i'm on ubuntu 9.10, but i kinda doubt that's the problem [18:29:41] can anyone else replicate what you're seeing? [18:30:43] hi [18:30:47] shall I test? [18:30:53] whats it abut? [18:31:16] tabs on commons being in the wrong order in RTL [18:31:37] can u send me the link? [18:32:05] http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Main_Page?uselang=ar [18:33:00] Stupid RTL [18:33:00] looks ok [18:33:07] though I cannot read the tabs [18:33:12] har har har [18:33:19] whats the bug? [18:34:15] nkomura is seeing them rendered incorrectly. there's some overlapping, and tab positions seem backwards [18:35:14] not for me [18:35:18] using ff3.6 win [18:37:33] i'm not sure anyone else can replicate it [18:44:51] hannes-_-: adam_miller and i were talking about RTL layout [18:58:22] adam_miller: hannes-_- pointed out that gray text in link dialog is not appearing [18:58:35] it will be great if we can restore it for tonight's deployment [18:59:12] nkomura: that's because the input dialog is focused when the thing opens [19:00:08] i'm not following you... [19:00:13] it's intended to work that way - you get helper text until you click on the dialog [19:00:32] we focus on the input field when you open the dialog automatically though [19:01:01] so you never really see the text unless you click out of the input field and cause it to lose focus [19:03:26] got it [19:03:29] i see it now [19:03:36] thanks for explaining to me [19:03:46] yeah, it's kinda lame how it is now since we focus on the input automatically [19:06:19] *nkomura wonders hashtags can take hyphen .. [19:08:51] I think [19:09:25] does underscore work better? [19:10:47] wouldn't #vector work? it's shorter too [19:11:18] hmm, no, too much noise [19:11:18] there is active discussion going on around #vector [19:11:22] #wmvector then [19:11:31] or #wpvector [19:12:59] i thought about wmfvector, but a separator would be nice [19:57:26] nkomura you have mai;l [20:00:49] GerardM-: will check later [20:31:14] TrevorParscal: how are you feeling? [20:38:57] TrevorParscal: Do we want to deploy PrefSwitch tonight? [20:39:40] RoanKattouw: you are back online ;) [20:40:05] Indeed I am [20:40:12] I was away for most of the Easter weekend [20:40:24] Which is Fri-Mon over here [20:40:41] did you have a nice long easter weekend? [20:40:54] Sure did [20:43:16] I'll be off to bed soon to get some sleep before the switchover [20:43:39] nkomura: Do you have any idea as to whether Trevor intended for PrefSwitch to be deployed before the switchover? [20:44:23] "Take me back" feature (PrefSwitch) is a must have feature when we go default [20:44:48] we will have unhappy users if we don't offer an easy way to switch back [20:44:48] Right [20:44:55] So we'll want to turn that on then [20:45:12] yes [20:45:26] What do you say we join forces 30 mins or an hour earlier to get that done? [20:45:35] (so at 10:30 or 10) [20:45:47] i'm all for it [20:46:09] it will be even earlier for you [20:46:33] Yeah well [20:46:48] does it require a new db tables or fields to accommodate PrefSwitch? [20:48:50] Yes [20:48:55] But creating new tables should be fine [20:49:50] can we help testing it on prototypes some more so that you can confirm the data capture works properly? [20:50:06] Go for it [20:50:18] I'm not sure the DBs are actually set up properly, but you'll find out soon enough [20:50:48] let me finish up the communications thread and i will start pounding on it [20:52:39] OK [20:52:51] I'll be off to take a shower in a few minutes but I'll be back briefly after that [20:53:40] k [20:55:13] guillom: have a look at this discussion topic -> [20:55:14] http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Administrators%27_noticeboard#check-usage_eaten_away_by_easter-bunny.3F [20:55:24] *guillom clicks [20:56:29] i'm mainly referring to the picture [20:56:47] although i'm curious about the tab discussion there [20:56:49] oh ok :) [20:56:54] I was checking the discussion [20:57:27] basically, they removed a tab linking to a tool on the toolserver, because the tool is now obsolete since we have the GlobalUsage feature directly in MediaWiki [20:58:01] I like this version too: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Heres_a_bunny_with_waffle.png :) [20:58:11] i see. the photo of a bunny is too cute [20:58:28] lol [20:58:50] it should be nominated for a picture of the day [20:59:19] I will certainly bookmark it and use it next time I have no idea what someone is saying :) [21:00:05] nkomura: As per my Tweet, you announced the time wrong. 11pm PDT = 8am CEST = 06:00 UTC, not 07:00 UTC [21:00:36] grrr [21:00:43] Corrected this on Twitter, now correcting it on the Commons Admin noticeboard [21:00:52] didn't i say UTC? [21:01:07] i started using UTC [21:01:12] You said UTC, but your time was off by an hour [21:01:39] Seems you miscalculated or used PST as a base instead of PDT [21:01:42] i thought CEST and UTC was one hour off no? [21:02:06] ubuntu clocks tells me UTC is +8 from PDT [21:02:21] Whoa that's pretty broken then [21:02:25] PDT is UTC-7, CEST is UTC+2 [21:02:31] It's giving you DST-less offsets [21:02:45] oh +7 [21:02:54] Oh also note that the time in London is not the same as UTC during summertime [21:03:01] i thought london and UTC are the same time zone [21:03:07] grrrr [21:03:09] Reliable anchor: Reykjavik, Iceland. It's in UTC+0 and doesn't do DST [21:03:19] They are in winter, but due to DST London is in +1 during the summer [21:03:24] k [21:03:32] should have sticked to CEST [21:03:40] *RoanKattouw imagines everyone keeping time in Reykjavik time [21:04:07] the Ubuntu clock works well for me [21:05:16] RoanKattouw: you are on status.net right? can i follow you on twitter? [21:05:31] I'm on identi.ca and twitter as @catroep [21:05:32] *catrope [21:05:38] Sure, go right ahead, my tweets are public [21:06:10] I have an identi.ca -> Twitter bridge so all my dents (except @-replies to other identi.ca accounts) are copied to Twitter [21:08:24] TrevorParscal: btw. i'm considering creating this: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/5/56/Twinkle_vector_menu.png/200px-Twinkle_vector_menu.png for the much used administrative tool Twinkle. [21:08:43] there are a bit too many links in the cactions menu now for some admins :D [21:08:55] ooh [21:09:01] That'd be nice [21:09:01] interesting [21:09:12] good stuff [21:09:21] nkomura, TrevorParscal: OK, so what time shall we set for PrefSwitch deployment on Commons? 10:30? [21:09:57] that should work for me [21:10:03] it's a little bit ugly code now, perhaps in the future we can add a true addVectorMenu() or something to do this ? [21:10:32] thedj: use an icon instead of TW as well [21:11:21] TrevorParscal: like an alternative to do down arrow ? [21:11:30] s/do/the [21:11:50] yeah - or next to it [21:12:45] like, and icon that has a down arrow in it, plus some twinking or something [21:13:02] dude - throwing up all day [21:13:15] *thedj passes bucket [21:13:17] brb [21:15:00] RoanKattouw: thank you for correcting my post on admin noticeboard [21:15:20] Sure [21:15:55] are there plenty links to help people with questions, switching back, switching their javascript.. etc ? [21:18:25] thedj: we will have a link to switch back [21:18:35] you can see it on prototypes [21:34:30] Off to take a shower now, if any of you need me before tonight, ping me in the next 30 mins or so [21:39:23] RoanKattouw_away: let's chat before you go to bed [21:51:33] parutron_, I totally don't think the differences are as noticable as that email ssays they are [21:51:58] you mean the hoeffler W and the libertine W? [21:52:02] "The VVs combined to make the Hoefler W give it a distinctive and pleasing irregularity that is lost in the selfmade Libertine. [21:52:02] " [21:52:08] I don't even understand what this means. [21:52:11] tee hee [21:52:39] my thinking on the W is that if it makes mike's or kul's lives easier to keep the hoeffler W, lets keep it [21:52:42] if not, lets move on. [21:52:49] parutron_, i'm just not in agreement with him. [21:52:54] agreed. [21:52:59] me neither. [21:53:02] Linux Libertine is nothing like Times New Roman [21:53:06] i'm going to see him today [21:53:10] and i'm sure we'll discuss this [21:53:14] who's "him" ? [21:53:19] but i'm not opposed to keeping the hoeffler W [21:53:35] in fact, we are working under the assumption we will..... [21:53:39] meh [21:53:40] him = david peters [21:53:54] i believe he consulted with jay on the annual report [21:54:00] and jay wanted to include him in the conversation [21:54:06] tsss [21:54:11] well, at least he agrees about the A on the end [21:54:19] i disagree with that! [21:54:20] ;) [21:55:11] (in case that wasn't obvious) [21:55:18] guillom: why the tsss? [21:55:28] he had a leak. [21:55:44] including more people means more opinions and more possible disagreement :P [21:56:03] ruling alone is better ! [21:56:05] especially professionals. [21:56:13] because they are solid in their beliefs [22:07:59] nkomura: Yeah? [22:08:01] hey RoanKattouw [22:08:18] so let's synch up on the time we meet online [22:08:39] Yeah [22:08:57] so 7:30am your time? [22:09:17] Yeah that's what I was thinking [22:09:22] cool [22:09:53] trevor has been really sick, hopefully he'll be recovered by tonight [22:10:03] but at the worst case, he may not be [22:10:50] if you can explicitly make a list of files in case of rollback that'll be good [22:11:42] I already talked to Mark about this [22:12:20] k [22:12:42] First off, the part we'd rollback is not a software change but a config change [22:13:05] We've got a versioning system (SVN) for config files as well, so I'll just make sure everything associated with the switchover is in one revision [22:13:21] Then I'll pass that revision number to Mark and whoever else needs it [22:13:32] So they can use SVN's revert feature using that rev number [22:13:55] nice [22:14:18] so we'll see each other in 7hrs and 15 minutes ;) [22:14:32] (i mean over IRC) [22:14:33] Yes [22:14:45] Meanwhile, I should get some sleep [22:15:28] yeah [22:15:44] rest well [22:15:48] Thanks [22:15:53] See you tonight then [22:22:31] nkomura in the copy paste matrix, what is ML and PL stand for? [22:23:52] ML for multiple lines [22:24:26] i don't remember what PL stands for [22:24:42] partial line [22:24:52] the legend is in row 1 :-) [22:25:04] doh [22:25:13] sorry i missed that [22:31:48] np [22:41:54] hello nkomura [22:42:04] hi werdna [22:42:12] ready for your big deployment? [22:42:41] yeah [22:42:53] it is only for commons tonight tho [22:43:00] I know, but it's still exciting [22:43:41] in terms of number of articles, commons is huge [22:44:20] :) [22:53:06] *nkomura is going offline a bit [22:56:00] can someone unlock the topic plz? [22:58:12] *cary is not an op :-( [23:01:45] *pdhanda is not an op either [23:01:58] I wanted to add New interface? What are we, Facebook? [23:06:50] -ChanServ- Entry Nickname/Host Flags [23:06:50] -ChanServ- ----- ---------------------- ----- [23:06:50] -ChanServ- 1 MZMcBride +votsriRfAF [modified 1 year, 6 weeks, 4 days, 14:55:14 ago] [23:06:50] -ChanServ- 2 RoanKattouw +votsriRfAF [modified 33 weeks, 6 days, 00:00:32 ago] [23:06:51] -ChanServ- ----- ---------------------- ----- [23:06:53] -ChanServ- End of #wikimedia-usability FLAGS listing. [23:06:58] that's handy [23:07:00] heh [23:07:09] Marybelle, would you make a bunch of staff members ops? [23:07:10] thanks [23:24:15] TrevorParscal, working from home today? [23:24:29] TrevorParscal is alive! [23:24:33] "throwing up from home" would be more accurate [23:24:38] ha ha [23:24:39] ugh [23:24:41] yeah, it's been rough [23:24:59] sorry to hear [23:25:02] I'm really weak, I feel like I'm 80 years old [23:25:11] *TrevorParscal takes a nap [23:38:04] Twinkle menu implemented. [23:40:41] and have you guys seen refToolbar 2.0 ? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Mr.Z-man/refToolbar_2.0