[00:12:39] cary: What? [00:13:06] Marybelle, you seem to have infinite rights here [00:13:14] Nope. [00:13:15] op some staff members, like guillom. [00:13:18] This channel is _. [00:15:27] You need Roan. [00:15:32] And you really ought to move the channel. [00:17:42] -ChanServ- Entry Nickname/Host Flags [00:17:42] -ChanServ- ----- ---------------------- ----- [00:17:42] -ChanServ- 1 MZMcBride +votsriRfAF [modified 1 year, 6 weeks, 4 days, 16:06:24 ago] [00:17:42] -ChanServ- 2 RoanKattouw +votsriRfAF [modified 33 weeks, 6 days, 01:11:42 ago] [00:17:42] -ChanServ- ----- ---------------------- ----- [00:17:46] -ChanServ- End of #wikimedia-usability FLAGS listing. [00:18:03] I don't know what _. means [00:18:07] the redirect should be reversed [00:18:10] oh [00:18:12] got it. [00:18:18] It's _. [00:18:21] not -. [00:18:24] right [00:18:29] it's a bad name. [00:18:37] actually, it should be #wikimedia-ux [00:18:45] guillom, so make it :) [00:18:56] just did [00:19:00] You go girl. [00:19:02] http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Deletion_requests/File:Male_Ejaculation.JPG#File:Male_Ejaculation.JPG [00:19:17] *guillom guesses this is NSFW [00:19:27] cary: You need to clean up Commons. [00:19:38] Marybelle, you need to clean up your bedroom. [00:19:50] You first. [00:20:03] NO U [00:23:35] http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Deletion_requests/File:Human_male_penis_with_pre-ejaculate.jpg [00:23:40] Commons really is a disgrace. [00:29:15] do I even need to look? [00:29:55] god, that almost made me vomit [00:32:42] And according to Infrogmation, calling images like that "disturbing" isn't a valid reason for deletion. [00:32:56] Commoners have the common sense skills God gave a pistachio nut. [00:32:58] Just saying. [00:34:02] we're having a fun discussion on the admins channel about the goatse image. [00:34:02] WHERE DID GUILLOM GO? [00:34:11] Did it get deleted? [00:34:16] I deleted that last one [00:34:19] I commented on the other one. [00:34:25] Cool. Thanks. [00:34:32] TwoWings "voting" keep is not a rational reason to keep. [00:34:32] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Files_for_deletion/2010_March_29#File:Goatse.fr_homepage.png is still open? [00:34:37] He wants Commons full of porn. [00:34:50] I'm trying to vandalize the topic of #wikimedia-ux and it's locked. [00:34:56] I need guillom. [00:35:13] I sent him a memo. [01:04:13] wasn't this the day of the great release? :P [01:47:19] hello people [01:48:01] hello TrevorParscal [01:48:15] hi trevor - my sympathies on the stomach unpleasantness [01:48:37] parutron and i are looking at the simplified search on prtotype [01:48:39] thanks - i'm hoping to be done with this pronto.... [01:48:53] howie and I had a discussion for a way to change the behavior [01:49:02] i havn't gotten around to protyping it [01:49:27] oh cool - what's the change? [01:49:39] but it would essentially be that the text in the search box doesn't change when you scroll through the suggestions, and the bottom "containg..." would always show what you typed [01:50:08] and then we could make that "containing..." reachable by the keyboard [01:50:10] why don't we defer the simplified search from tonight's deployment? [01:50:16] and we could wrap the up and down keys [01:50:27] fair enough [01:50:27] great - for me that's the interaction we'd have to get to to be able to deploy [01:50:33] keyboard access to the "contains" [01:50:58] parutron: yeah, I think, as per our conversation, we've just been looking for a nice solution - the one we had was never really that good [01:51:02] but we are dang close [01:51:08] and those changes are failry simple [01:51:25] fairly simple when you're NOT dealing with food poisoning..... [01:51:31] i will hack the prototype of while I'm traveling [01:51:35] indeed [01:51:47] that sounds great to me! [01:51:48] it's better to be conservative tonight [01:51:56] for sure [01:52:07] we need to be learning ops lessons tonight, not UI ones [01:52:10] that way we can also have some time for feedback on the prototype [01:52:11] so let's continue discussion/iteration on search [01:52:20] sounds good to me [01:52:27] which i'd feel uncomortable about too [01:52:40] I think it also aligns with our desire to never release features we know are flawed [01:53:25] if we don't know - sometime deploying can answer those doubts, but if we completly understand something is wrong, deploying it is just being mean to the users [01:54:39] we just haven't had enough time to evaluate the new features we are bundling into the default [01:55:01] aurora just typed QA on my keyboard [01:55:05] but i take TrevorParscal and parutron are on the same page for the left nav? [01:55:05] she's trying to tell us something [01:55:16] haha [01:55:18] we like it [01:55:34] she will be the youngest coder ever [01:55:44] yes, she will [01:56:07] trevor i just noticed that donate + help are back in the "interaction" section, even though in an ideal world, we'd want them in the top "always visible" section. am assuming this is something we'll have to deal with per wiki as that is how it is managed. [01:56:09] is that correct? [01:56:45] yes [01:57:18] it's a matter of changing MediaWiki:Sidebar [01:57:22] on every wiki [01:57:26] great. [01:57:36] cool. with that (and without any official approval or authority over you) i insist you relax and get well! [01:57:45] k [01:57:50] thnx [01:57:54] :) [01:58:15] i will be checking in online at the time of the switch. mostly out of team love! [01:58:26] you know nimish is out sick too :( [01:58:32] we look forward to it [01:58:45] maybe we will do a group skype call... [01:58:49] we are ready! [01:59:01] sitenotice got lots of translation in one hour [01:59:02] hooray.... [01:59:15] next time we should deploy at happy hour! [01:59:50] good idea [02:00:06] but that's 3am in europe [02:00:26] ops people revolt against parutron [02:00:32] :) [02:00:52] parul was curious about the site notice [02:00:54] here it is [02:00:56] http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/MediaWiki_talk:Sitenotice#Interface_change [02:01:34] when is enwiki slated to switch? [02:02:47] TrevorParscal: rest up [02:03:07] k-thx-bye [02:04:15] Prodego: shooting towards end of the month [02:04:39] *Prodego nods [05:23:26] so, we have some people here... [05:23:50] we're just waiting for our netherlands peeps to wake up... [05:26:07] hey TrevorParscal [05:26:18] howdy [05:26:25] roan should be online in 5-10 min [05:29:06] it's cold in the office [05:29:12] i'm going to make a cup of tea [05:31:13] brb as well [05:32:10] hi [05:32:41] howdy [05:32:45] what time is it over there? [05:32:48] mid-day? [05:32:51] 1532 [05:33:11] so, 7:32pm for us ignorant americans [05:33:26] er... [05:33:34] 3:32pm? [05:33:42] i can haz military time lessons [05:33:49] 3:33 [05:33:49] pm [05:34:12] how's it going? [05:34:26] it's okay, I have an enormous todo list for the week [05:35:45] which will be fun [05:36:16] i'm back [05:36:20] hi werdna [05:37:46] hello nkomura [05:38:01] you poor people, doing deployments at 11pm :p [05:38:14] it's all right [05:38:30] we keep roan up beyond midnight all the time you know [05:38:32] hello RoanKattouw [05:38:37] it is our turn ;) [05:38:43] nkomura: yes, but he's youthful and would probably be up that late anyway ;) [05:38:43] speaking of RoanKattouw, here he is [05:38:54] true [05:39:06] it is so beyond my bed time [05:39:17] *yawn* [05:40:30] good morning RoanKattouw [05:41:28] RoanKattouw: do you see mark in other IRC channels? [05:42:46] RoanKattouw: sup? [05:43:19] nkomura: I know I'm not officially involved, but if something breaks and you need another pair of hands, I'm desperate for distraction from this physics :) [05:43:32] hehe [05:43:37] Don't worry werdna we'll call you in [05:43:39] werdna: thank you [05:43:48] Yeah mark seems to be around [05:44:01] But his status is away [05:44:08] We told him 8 though [05:44:29] So lemme prep the PrefSwitch deployment now while Mark's presumably still getting up [05:44:36] http://wiki.wikked.net/wiki/Wikimedia_statistics/Daily [05:44:49] looks like we're right on target for deploying off peak [05:45:02] TrevorParscal and RoanKattouw: let's scope out today's deployment [05:45:18] Yes [05:45:26] ok [05:45:27] I read something about not deploying SimpleSearch in the logs [05:45:27] so we'll update the beta and make the switch for commons [05:45:45] right [05:45:47] RoanKattouw: yeah, we're going to push that out with en [05:45:53] we have more to work on there [05:46:10] left nav is in [05:46:35] the new tool bar w/ nowiki and redirect is in [05:46:57] dialogs for IE7/8 are in [05:48:14] vector might be in - i'm thinking it's redy [05:48:17] :) [05:48:22] :D [05:48:30] *TrevorParscal gets snarky late at night [05:48:35] :D [05:48:52] *tomaszf watches from rafters [05:48:59] hey tomaszf, what's up? [05:49:34] TrevorParscal: OK so I'm just gonna update wmf-deployment to trunk state then [05:49:43] been playing with the ipad tonight .. had to put it down as all that focus on a small device was getting to me [05:49:51] tomaszf: thoughts? [05:49:51] *tomaszf decided to drop in and see how you guys were doing [05:50:26] RoanKattouw: yes [05:50:31] tomaszf: we're fine so far [05:50:42] Mostly because we didn't do anything yet [05:50:43] but let's talk after we make some changes to the cluster :) [05:50:58] The most exciting thing happening right now is me running svn merge on my machine :) [05:51:14] overall positive for the first couple of hours. the safari browsing experience is really nice. really fast and smooth. if only i could keep pandora, adium and something else in the background i'd think about getting the 2nd rev with camera [05:51:24] hehe .. that just means the fun stuff is coming up :) [05:51:31] mark is dropping in tonight right? [05:51:48] Yes [05:52:07] tomaszf: iPhone OS 4 preview is on thursday [05:52:49] nice .. i hadn't seen news on the yet .. at least official news [05:53:37] battery life on this thing is really nice so far .. its been going solid since 10AM .. 8+ hrs of use [05:53:37] whttp://www.cnet.com.au/apple-to-introduce-iphone-os-4-0-thursday-339302223.htm [05:54:31] I'll move to staff channel to let the usability folks do some work [05:54:37] :) [05:55:24] not like we're doing anything much yet [05:55:36] mark - oh mark, where are you? [05:56:31] mornings are tough for him [05:56:47] *TrevorParscal understands [05:56:56] this morning kicked my butt [05:57:53] mark is here! [05:58:01] where? [05:58:03] yay [05:58:10] in sysadmin channel [05:58:14] Quick, can anyone reproduce https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=23060 ? [05:58:15] mark is punctual! [05:58:20] Calcey filed this bug at 10:56 [06:00:31] *nkomura is reviewing the bug [06:00:40] side effect of our clever cursor save/restore stuff? [06:00:42] hmm [06:02:16] i don't have access to IE tonight [06:02:31] *werdna does if you really can't find it anywhere else [06:02:39] hi there [06:02:53] hi mark [06:02:56] mark: You've been purging 1:10 all night? [06:03:00] yes [06:03:07] and we can increase that if needed [06:03:10] good morning [06:03:16] morning :) [06:03:36] OK [06:03:36] owch [06:03:45] dude, it's pretty bad [06:03:49] the good thing about commons is that most people don't browse it, but just land on specific image pages [06:03:57] i think we will be retaining IE8 blacklisting [06:04:03] So first, I'll need to run scap to deploy some software changes [06:04:09] yes [06:04:19] TrevorParscal: IE8 usage < IE7 usage so let's do that [06:04:27] IE7 is working fine [06:04:40] TrevorParscal: Could you change that in trunk for me? [06:04:43] yeah, I think our test pages were too short to check for this [06:04:45] sure [06:05:23] what should I blacklist though, it's broken with the heading thing [06:05:30] this is worse than it was before [06:05:32] TrevorParscal: is it possible just to blacklist headings for IE8? [06:05:43] would require hacking [06:06:39] Oh right blegh [06:07:13] it actually does a scroll up/down for any toolbar stuff [06:07:32] [06:07:33] the way we are resolving the issues with the dialogs has cause issues for everything else [06:07:39] this is a bit of a regression [06:07:42] I wonder why that is [06:07:47] oh no [06:08:03] Actually, how the heck does that happen [06:08:11] I thought Adam fixed this by just moving dialog.close() calls [06:08:12] do you have IE? [06:09:15] basically, we need to blacklist IE for the whole WikiEditor until we sort this out [06:09:35] IE8 [06:09:40] IE7 is working [06:09:48] nice, WMF promotes alternate browsers ;) [06:09:51] correct [06:09:57] TrevorParscal: Think http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:Code/MediaWiki/64439 might be guilty? [06:10:04] *TrevorParscal looks [06:10:34] mark: qq [06:11:01] did you want to apply the change in thumbnail to commons as well? [06:11:13] I think shotgun debugging is probably the superior approach here because we made relatively few changes to the textSelection code [06:12:50] TrevorParscal: Why don't you try reverting a few revs locally to see if any of them is to blame? [06:13:07] i'm already doing that [06:13:08] nearly done [06:13:22] Suspicious revs IMO being the r64439/41 couple and r64400 [06:19:22] TrevorParscal: No, there's no suspicious revs below r64399 that I can see [06:19:49] Could you try to like go down to r64129 and go up from there [06:21:29] for sure [06:21:36] TrevorParscal: Ooh, sprites! [06:21:57] yeah, nice huh? [06:22:05] adam rocked that pretty hard [06:22:15] No I mean [06:22:19] What if they're guilty? [06:22:21] r64326 [06:23:19] hmm [06:23:43] TrevorParscal: Suggestion: [06:23:47] + .click( function() { return false; } ) [06:23:54] Maybe that needs e.preventDefault(); for IE? [06:24:00] yeah [06:24:05] it totally does [06:24:12] (in the sprite code, if ( 'offset' in tool ) block in wikiEditor.toolbar.js ) [06:24:30] *RoanKattouw apologizes to mark on behalf of the entire team for this mess-up [06:24:40] no problem :) [06:24:47] i fixed that up at some point though [06:24:55] I'm writing code as we speak myself ;) [06:25:40] to improve the handling of the squid purging [06:27:17] allthoguth line 322 in toolbar.js is redundant and possibly causing issues [06:27:23] the handlers get added below [06:27:36] h I see [06:28:53] TrevorParscal: I'm pretty sure that's the culprit [06:29:02] just committed a fix [06:29:05] testing some stuff [06:29:09] Because that handler fires first and due to it returning false, the other handlers don't get called [06:29:11] Did that fix it? [06:32:13] no - it's still all over the place [06:32:23] Bleh [06:32:33] mind you, I'm in bad shape to be fixing complex bugs right now [06:32:41] What happens if you go back to r64325 altogether? [06:33:02] same behavior - I went to r64324 too [06:33:11] for good measure :) [06:33:29] Oh come on [06:33:31] https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=23061 [06:33:43] Calcey's timing is horrible today [06:34:01] ha ha [06:34:09] It has to be afternoon in Sri Lanka already, surely they could've started testing earlier than 5 minutes before scheduled deployment? [06:34:17] so - we can push out the code, with IE8 blacklisted for the editing tools [06:34:27] Yes [06:34:29] then solve these issues in the next week or so, then push that out [06:34:29] *grumble* [06:34:38] we can have a hack-a-thon in berlin for this stuff [06:34:41] OK so we blacklist IE8 for wikiEditor whole [06:34:43] if it's not solved by then [06:34:47] yes [06:34:54] nkomura: where do you stand on this? [06:35:09] for IE8 users, they will get the skin and sidebar, but not the editing tools, we can patch it later [06:35:52] she fell asleep at her keyboard I think [06:36:58] i'm here [06:37:07] i was reviewing bugs [06:37:39] so IE8 users get the old toolbar in our sparkling new UI? [06:38:36] i agree that it is not time for heavy debugging right now [06:39:47] and we should take this opportunity to get the ops issue (deploying the skin) out of the way [06:40:10] yup [06:40:46] 8.9% of our users will not get the new toolbar for a week or so - I can live with that personally [06:41:54] OK so let's roll [06:42:05] I'm gonna scap the software changes now [06:42:56] RoanKattouw: is the db ready for prefswitch? [06:43:16] Not yet [06:43:27] But I'll push out the software first, then enable PrefSwitch [06:44:03] right, you have to push the software, then run update.php, then turn on prefswitch [06:44:08] so users will not see vector as default yet after you push out the software right? [06:44:12] or db errors will occur [06:44:17] k [06:44:21] Yes [06:44:27] I won't literally be running update.php [06:44:35] when do you you do the default config switch? [06:44:35] understood [06:44:36] But I'll be creating the new table manually [06:44:59] After we confirm the whole thing is working properly [06:45:00] after the software is updated, and the db table is created [06:45:05] and that [06:45:09] got it [06:45:09] he he [06:45:23] just wanted to make sure that we don't have a window that users cannot opt-out [06:45:39] *nkomura goes back to reviewing bugs [06:50:02] OK new software is live, sans PrefSwitch, please test [06:50:17] Most importantly, confirm IE8 is indeed blocked [06:50:26] k [06:50:37] bhagya is online [06:50:47] i will ask her to test IE8 is blacklisted [06:51:26] yes [06:51:31] it's blocked and IE7 is working [06:51:42] Good [06:52:31] good morning/evening [06:52:35] however, the icons aren't showing up [06:52:38] the sprited ones [06:52:44] can you make sure they are deployed? [06:53:01] http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/5370/picture1tk.png [06:54:07] i think the blacklisting is too strong ;) [06:55:15] Bleh forgot to svn ad [06:55:34] "i like my ie support like I like my coffee, black and non-existent" [06:56:25] Fixed now [06:57:14] hooray [06:58:14] pretty icons are back! [06:58:31] :) [06:58:34] coffee is good [06:58:36] *mark makes some more [06:59:18] RoanKattouw: status when convenient [06:59:29] Just created PrefSwitch table on Commons [06:59:33] Now preparing to turn it on there [07:05:23] bhagya says no toolbar is appearing in IE8 in production [07:05:35] OK the config for PrefSwitch should be set up now [07:05:38] can IE8 get the old toolbar please? [07:06:51] my testing showed the old toolbar [07:07:02] Locally or on production? [07:07:12] There might be weird JS interference and stuff [07:07:35] crap [07:07:42] yeah, production is showing othewise [07:07:55] we need to sort that before we change the config [07:07:58] hmm [07:08:39] Does this happen on commons specifically? [07:09:20] i think it's a js thing [07:09:34] Yeah that's why I asked [07:09:39] bhagya is validating using en.wp [07:09:43] If it's like enwiki local JS messing up, we don't have to worry about that just yet [07:09:48] so i suspect it is global [07:09:49] Ask here to switch to commons.wm [07:10:30] dude, there's a billion js files [07:10:50] Yeah [07:11:39] she is verifying with commons [07:11:53] happening on en [07:11:57] en-wp [07:12:03] yeah [07:12:04] so, what's the difference here... [07:13:35] dude - i'm getting pretty tired ... :( [07:13:52] bhagya confirmed no toolbar both in en.wp and commons [07:14:42] brb [07:14:52] I managed to reproduce without IE [07:15:07] By setting an early breakpoint and setting $.browser.name = 'msie'; on the console [07:15:33] you guys gracefully degrade for RTL in IE7 [07:15:45] Ugh [07:15:48] can we do similar downgrade? [07:15:50] Same old same old [07:16:04] if ( toolbar supported ) remove old toolbar [07:16:11] We need to block IE8 on the toolbar explicitly [07:16:37] sounds good to me ;) [07:17:20] Oh wait there's another way [07:18:12] i just committed something [07:18:17] please include it in your patch [07:21:21]