[12:38:18] RoanKattouw: is there a way to only animate the tabs on page resize ? opposed to page load ? [12:43:02] Hmm maybe [12:43:13] I'd poke Adam but he's kicking it in Berlin [12:43:46] *thedj should have gotten stuck somewhere too. :D [12:44:09] Yeah I actually considered going back there [12:44:24] But that would've affected my chances of passing this quarter's courses [14:06:48] Is the usability team planning to work on flagged protections? I believe the flagged protection feature is quite confusing. [14:08:27] I think FR is supposed to get a usability overhaul at some point [14:08:33] But I'm not sure [14:08:43] You should probably ask management people :) [14:09:43] OK. Who are the "management people" and gow to ask them? [14:09:54] *how [14:09:54] I think nkomura would be the right person to ask [14:10:03] She should be here in 1 or 2 hours [14:10:12] (It's 7:10am in San Francisco right now) [14:11:34] OK, thanks RoanKattouw. :-) [14:30:08] https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_%28technical%29#.22Try_Beta.22_description_gives_no_real_information_on_the_consequences_of_the_two_options [14:30:40] has only been up there for 6 months, but he :D some people are slow to notice i guess :D [14:31:58] Heh [15:08:50] hmm, on IE8 the edit page of commons is totally broken if you are not logged in at least. [15:08:54] http://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=File:A_Treatise_on_Electricity_and_Magnetism_Volume_2_218.jpg&action=edit [15:10:07] when i'm logged in, i ave no trouble [15:22:29] TrevorParscal: [15:22:33] http://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=File:A_Treatise_on_Electricity_and_Magnetism_Volume_2_218.jpg&action=edit [15:22:43] that page looks horrible for me on IE8 when i'm logged out. [15:22:52] seems like some css or js is missing. [15:28:21] http://imagebin.ca/view/hivjFW1.html [15:39:06] hey TrevorParscal and RoanKattouw! [15:39:13] hi [15:39:16] Good morning nkomura [15:39:24] how are you holding up TrevorParscal? [15:40:01] I'm doing ok - i need to get the hell off this continent [15:41:01] howie sent me the pointer to everyone's schedule [15:41:28] Oh TrevorParscal it still has you as flying out tomorrow, you should update that [15:41:41] ye [15:42:03] when is your scheduled flight? [15:42:23] RoanKattouw: i saw your tweet that you made it home all right. good... [15:44:47] TrevorParscal: is your flight not till April 25? [15:45:03] correct [15:45:53] oh dear... [15:46:13] it must be hard for your family that you are away that long [15:46:37] So if this third attempt is succesful you'll be arriving like 9 days late [15:48:46] wow, next saturday ? [15:48:52] Sundaty [15:48:57] wowzers [15:51:09] TrevorParscal: can you take a conference call later tonight? [15:51:39] maybe - the internet packet loss has been bad, but we're working on getting it fixed up [15:51:52] haha [15:52:21] shame you're not over here for the fun nkomura [15:52:50] :-) [15:53:53] TrevorParscal and RoanKattouw, Nimish leaves for Nepal tonight, so I want to have a meeting for him to go over the current state of template collapsing/expansion [15:54:04] OK [15:54:06] What time? [15:54:12] I can try to review his recent commits before then [15:54:37] RoanKattouw: i want to shoot for 11am PDT / 8pm CEST [15:54:54] OK [16:17:24] nkomura: Hello. :-) Is the usability team planning to work on flagged protections? I believe the flagged protection feature is quite confusing. [16:18:56] hello Dodoiste. It is a possibility, but it will depend on the priority for upcoming months. [16:19:23] we are still focusing on basic editing tasks for new users and simplifying the uploading process of multimedia files [16:20:03] TrevorParscal: Can we shoot for a call around 8pm your time? [16:20:22] if you guys are going out for dinner, we can shoot for later time too, if RoanKattouw_away can accommodate later time [16:20:43] aka, in 1.5 hours? I'm fairly certain that's intersecting dinner head on [16:21:01] what time is good for you? [16:22:17] OK, thanks nkomura. [16:22:26] hmm [16:22:49] well, I mean, I can make whatever happen I guess [16:24:04] Dodoiste: You are welcome [16:30:14] nkomura: I was discussing the flagged protections with some people working on it recently. They have a lot of debates on "how to improve usability of the flagged protections". They would be very happy to get some help from the usability team. [16:37:55] Dodoiste: it is in our radar definitely [16:39:51] OK. :-) [16:41:39] TrevorParscal: which works better 8pm or 10pm CEST? [16:42:18] i could do 8pm i guess [16:42:22] just go to dinner late [16:45:42] we'll try to make it short [16:48:17] second volcano errupted? [16:48:23] erupted? [17:08:08] nkomura: Oh wait I can't make 8pm today, sorry, I have another meeting at exactly that time [17:08:19] And I think TrevorParscal will be expected to join Pete's birthday dinner [17:08:35] And the internet is really in and out right now [17:08:52] we are going to be getting some 3g sticks for our laptops soon [17:09:07] the 2nd volcano thing might be a hoax btw [17:09:42] OK so what do we do, reschedule the meeting? [17:09:52] I'd personally be fine rescheduling to 9pm or 10pm [17:19:27] nkomura, TrevorParscal: So, what do we do? Do we reschedule the meeting? If so, to what time? [17:20:07] well, they need to get back with the 3g sticks [17:20:36] until then, chat is the best I can pull [17:21:15] Yeah and I can't attend between 8 and 9, have another meeting [17:22:16] hi, just got back from the staff mtng [17:24:20] shall we chat now? [17:24:43] nimish_g, pdhanda and I are out of the meeting [17:25:27] So apparently Hekla didn't erupt after all [17:25:43] OK I'd be up for that, but I have to go to another meeting at 8 [17:26:28] k [17:26:48] let me pull in nimish_g and pdhanda [17:27:48] hihi [17:27:53] hey [17:29:04] Ok, so TrevorParscal and RoanKattouw, template stuff [17:30:01] Yes [17:30:06] I totally should've reviewed your revisions [17:30:07] I said I would [17:30:16] s6 is up-to-date [17:30:56] basically, there's still a copy-paste issue which is, if you copy text from the wikitext editor into the expanded templates, the expanded template breaks. I had been working on rebinding the template capsules once copied and pasted, but that's proving to be a bit trickier than I thought [17:31:11] Breaks how? [17:32:04] it literally breaks in two. Like the text before the pasted text and the text after the pasted text are in stylized "template-text" divs, and the pasted text is just in a

on its own in the middle of this [17:32:46] nimish_g i can look into the paste issue in the expanded template… [17:32:58] i i may have been responsible for the breakage [17:33:07] hi TrevorParscal [17:33:32] hope you're holding up and having fun in berlin. [17:33:41] nimish_g: Right so we should probably either 1) totally override the paste handler, inserting stuff ourselves and returning false or 2) clean up the

mess afterwards [17:33:51] mdale: [17:34:01] adding a new line by hitting enter key also breaks expanded template on FF on Linux [17:34:43] pressing 'enter' in linux also has the same effect, I strongly suspect it's b/c linux doesn't send a '13' on the 'event.which' for an 'enter' keypress... fairly trivial to check but my local machine has all kinds of half-changes on it at the moment [17:34:55] lol, nkomura, good timing [17:35:03] :) [17:35:26] ... [17:35:35] internet fail over here [17:36:47] we also need to make sure that if the template capsule is partially deleted, it's entirely deleted. and the {{ and }} of the template should be wrapped in seperate containers so we can bind them to our key handler so users can't delete them [17:38:11] OK [17:38:16] Should we Etherpad/wikipage a task list? [17:38:31] I think also, slightly more 'long-term' we want to support the templateinfo extension some more, or at least indicate some sort of display name for more templates. people seem to think this is a good feature (as evident on wikitech-l and stuff) [17:38:42] yeah that's actually a pretty good idea, I'll start one [17:39:24] http://eiximenis.wikimedia.org:9000/TemplateStuff [17:40:06] yes [17:40:30] nimish_g: let's focus on core component first [17:41:13] templateinfo extension is a nice complimentary feature before we release, [17:42:04] but we will need to get basic function of template collapsing/expansion working [17:42:44] would be nice to integrate with the mw lib template parsing stuff ( to not have duplicate template parser ) [17:43:01] Isn't mwlib in like Perl? [17:43:24] mwEmbed lib [17:44:13] mwEmbed has template parser as part of PLURAL and GENDER transforms [17:44:31] and used a few other places like add media wizard image asset description parsing [17:44:35] nkomura, TrevorParscal: Yeah, performance, performance [17:44:43] How about I go poking at jQ 1.4? [17:45:21] do those transforms work for languages like Welsh ? [17:45:22] RoanKattouw: if you have a good suggestion in improving perfomance, i'm all ears [17:45:30] Well [17:45:49] GerardM: I ported all the php files to js ... ( wikimedia does not match CLDR ) [17:45:50] When I was in the office in January, jQuery 1.4 was released [17:45:58] It's supposed to be much faster than 1.3, which we currently use [17:46:16] So I spent a little bit of time trying to get our code to work with jQ 1.4 but I ran into weird bugs and gave up [17:46:24] eh.. the internationalisation of MediaWIki DOES support Welsh [17:46:32] GerardM-: so yes ;) [17:46:41] so what do you call MediaWiki ?> [17:46:50] Meanwhile, jQ is at 1.4.2 and I could try to hammer out the one bug we're seeing [17:46:53] sorry mediawiki above [17:53:37] nimish_g: RoanKattouw needs to go to another meeting in 6 minutes [17:53:49] Yes [17:53:50] is there specific topic we need to discuss? [17:53:54] So let's speed this up [17:54:17] I don't think there's anything in specific that's not on etherpad [17:54:28] nimish_g: so in terms of the area you want to get help from TrevorParscal and RoanKattouw while you are away [17:54:38] which ones are the priorities for you? [17:55:10] Seems like much of this is just etherpading the spreadsheet we have [17:55:12] the keybinding stuff which shouldn't be too bad, and speed [17:55:21] TrevorParscal: yeah basically [17:55:28] which is debatably a useless activity [17:55:46] Right the spreahsheet [17:55:48] *RoanKattouw looks [17:55:58] I'm interested in also identifying the UX goals for this technology in part or in whole [17:56:30] I think some of the issues in the Etherpad aren't in the spreadsheet, let's move them [17:56:33] how we intend to deploy it in part or whole will greatly affect the prioritization of work [17:56:39] yes [17:56:55] let's try and stick to one medium for capturing these sorts of things [17:57:12] Does that matter much at this point where we're still Stanton-bound [17:57:14] ? [17:58:01] I think the goal is to make it a labs feature and make it stable enough that it can be a labs feature [17:58:17] so, my understanding is that we are intending to continue to devote WMF resources to continuing the development of technologies as per the priorities and directions set forth in the Stanton grant, even beyond the end of the grant [17:58:34] but that we will cease to do so at some arbitrary point in time [17:58:47] so, knowing that point in time will be helpful in not biting off more than we can chew [17:59:33] OK I have to go to my other meeting now [17:59:41] I'll talk to you guys later [17:59:49] RoanKattouw: thanks ttyl [17:59:49] if it's July 1 or Dec 1 will make a world of difference in which features we will work on, how many browsers we will support, and how we will deploy this stuff [17:59:57] RoanKattouw: thanks for your help! [18:00:32] Sure [18:00:56] So I'm initially looking to nkomura to give some insight as to how much more time we can devote to this work before we need to reevaluate it based on the priorities of WMF [18:01:01] rather than Stanton [18:01:13] TrevorParscal: i'm looking at end of June is the time where we we can wrap up features committed to Stanton [18:01:32] So, we have all of May and June [18:01:41] when does nimish_g return from his adventure? [18:01:56] but whether we can stop or not depends on how much we can deliver [18:02:06] nimish_g: will be back on May 23rd [18:02:21] may 25th [18:03:47] nkomura: when you say "whether we can stop or not depends on how much we can deliver", I'm hearing that there exists a case in which we would continue operating under priorities set forth by the Stanton foundation beyond the end of June. [18:04:21] if we are not offering template collapsing features by opt-in basis for FF/IE by end of June 30, we do need to consider possible extension of time [18:04:40] TrevorParscal: yes, that's correct [18:05:01] So what I'm looking for is a date in which we will be able to reevaluate our priorities in the interest of the WMF rather than Stanton, which clearly by your statement is not the end of June [18:05:14] I'm looking for a cutoff date [18:05:24] :O so nimish_g is gone for a *month*? I didn't know it was gonna be that long [18:05:36] if that's "when it's done" rather than "some specific date" then let [18:05:40] let's just say it [18:05:40] RoanKattouw: yep, hence the handoff [18:07:43] posing an arbitrary boundary at the end of June just to allow extension serves no productive purpose to me, it's giving us a false sense of urgency and incorrect view of scope [18:08:38] I have no problem continuing the work for as long as needed, but we need to be clear about the boundaries we are working within [18:08:39] TrevorParscal: we haven't agreed on what is the ideal way to offer template collapsing/expansion to users [18:09:17] we observed some interaction limitation by the usability study [18:09:23] agreed and understood - so are we letting that be the driving factor for the development schedule (still considering my opinion on that if we are) [18:09:53] but we can't offer improved interaction, if knots and bolts are not working [18:09:56] or is the development schedule the driving factor for which development tasks to perform [18:10:09] s/knots/nuts [18:10:12] agreed [18:10:15] i think the basic functionality improved a lot for the past two months [18:10:46] pardon my poor english [18:12:05] Indeed, we've made progress in the last 2 months, but we need to also consider that we had all hands on deck, no vacation (spare Priyanka briefly), very limited sick days, working on holidays, high stress, etc. That pace needs to be reconsidered immediately in my opinion, because it's doubtfully sustainable [18:12:37] Also, we now have people stranded in Berlin, Nimish on vacation, and I'll be caught up in schoolwork for a few weeks yet [18:12:59] We need to clearly define the design changes [18:13:21] are we talking about the 'when' or the 'what'? [18:13:33] And we need to set a deployment target (which browsers, who can turn it on, on which site is it deployed, how is it labeled, etc.) [18:13:48] nimish_g: ? [18:14:23] well, the what can drive the when, or the when can drive the what - we need to choose, but it's sounding like the what is driving the when a bit more than visa versa [18:14:47] I think the issues on etherpad right now are things that we'd need to do irrespective of what we change, they're pretty basic things that are broken for collapsing. I think no matter what we change, we know for a fact that 1) collapsing templates does indeed make things readable, and 2) however we collapse them, they need to be functional again once expanded [18:14:56] nimish_g and pdhanda have been working on FF3 [18:15:03] given we are unable to set a firm date at which we can step away from this work and reevaluate it's continuation based on the goals of the WMF rather than Stanton [18:15:03] it has been the case for months [18:15:30] I hope 'what' drives 'when' too... I've gotten some IE8 work done so it doesn't act completely retarded in IE, but there's still some way to go on that [18:15:55] WMF has a commitment to Stanton, it is WMF's goal to stick to its commitment in addition to working on new priorities [18:16:19] to what extent is the question that has yet to be answered, and we may not know yet [18:17:30] I'm uncomfortable working without contingencies - agile development is all about failure being an option, when you work without contingencies you are destined to continue down failed paths due to lack of options [18:18:24] I think we should narrow down the target and limit the support of browsers [18:19:14] basic collapsing and pop-up expansion only for FF as opt-in basis is the first feature set I'm thinking of [18:19:53] (11:19:53 AM) nkomura: basic collapsing and pop-up expansion only for FF as opt-in basis is the first feature set I'm thinking of [18:19:54] sorry internet sucks [18:19:59] /join #wikimedia-volcano [18:20:23] hi brion :-) [18:20:23] nkomura> I think we should narrow down the target and limit the support of browsers [18:20:25] |<-- Ryan_Lane has left freenode (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) [18:20:26] basic collapsing and pop-up expansion only for FF as opt-in basis is the first feature set I'm thinking of [18:20:33] \o/ [18:21:00] brion: At least join that channel yourself, lazy bastard ;) [18:21:19] too lazy to actually join it, just like typing things [18:22:02] So on topic: (I'm just idling while in another IRC meeting) I would personally prefer to shake off the Stanton boundaries and be able to choose our own course within the foreseeable future, and I would prefer to have some sort of cutoff date for that [18:22:27] ok - so we've done testing, where's parul in this? has she done enough synthesis to make an accurate assessment of what a second pass will look like? [18:22:59] parutron is back in the office from CHI [18:23:07] RoanKattouw: I'm confident we all would like that... you are not alone there [18:23:26] CHI? [18:23:32] RoanKattouw: what we can offer at the time of transition is important [18:24:07] we need to balance basic committed features and the schedule [18:24:13] hi! i'm back! [18:24:46] i do not think the production can take template features for all users from day one even if we want to [18:25:11] We need a very clear and precise goal to be set based on the results of the recent study, priorities of the Stanton grant and realities of our current accomplishments [18:25:25] and we should definitely start discussing directions based on testing for templates (i assume that's what the conversation is around) [18:25:26] we need to set a sane schedule for this work, which allows life to happen concurently [18:25:47] parutron: well, I'm pulling it that direction, yes [18:25:52] parutron: and yes, agreed [18:26:45] i think if we get collapsing and pop-up working for FF3 as opt-in basis + enabling NTOC back would be the next step beyond we go default [18:27:12] and i haven't been folllowing this channel, but i don't think we should be spending lots of our efforts ensuring that templates, as they exist now, work across all langs/browsers/etc if ( <----keyword) these new directions would significantly change that. [18:27:13] and integrating the feedback from the usability study [18:27:15] if that makes sense. [18:27:20] if we can be clear on the goal, not just make a vague list of issues but really identify what we plan to deliver, then we can at least start estimating a timeline [18:28:08] Can anyone look at this bug I saw with IE8 ? [18:28:11] http://imagebin.ca/view/hivjFW1.html [18:28:23] logged out on an edit page of Commons. [18:28:34] seems like some of the JS or CSS is MIA. [18:28:47] thedj: thank you for helping us identify issues, but please yeild to our meeting [18:29:09] I will take a look at that in a bit - thanks - seriously - sorry about cutting you off [18:29:16] np. [18:30:26] nkomura: so, what are we here to do? sounds like there are some questions that will take time to answer here [18:30:32] but nimish_g will be gone tomorrow [18:30:49] so we need to capture certain information from him before then [18:31:15] is that our only urgent objective? [18:31:55] am I disconnected again or something? [18:32:00] at the moment, I think so. All the issues on etherpad are things that will need to be done irrespective of any design changes [18:32:00] i wanted to make sure that you all have an opportunity to discuss what can be carried forward while nimish_g is away [18:32:22] regardless of the design direction basic copy/paste and binding needs to be functional [18:32:45] ok, well it sounds like we've captured what he knows is broken and are able to integrate it into the spreadsheet [18:33:02] prioritization and such can occur even after his departure [18:33:51] I think it would be ideal if nimish_g could integrate as much of his understanding of issues, outstanding and resolved, into the spreadsheet [18:33:54] i asked nimish_g to speak for priority from tech implementation perspective [18:34:08] not for the priorities for next release [18:34:30] TrevorParscal: the 'citron development' sheet? [18:34:37] yes [18:34:51] parutron: will you send out the preliminary study report from goto media to the team? [18:35:01] sure thing.... [18:35:03] there are priority and urgency columns [18:36:00] once we have nimish_g's input on technical tasks and their relative priorities, we should be able to proceed for the next 4 weeks without him without issue [18:38:07] TrevorParscal: let's have design discussion once you are back in the office next week [18:38:21] sorry for delaying you to dinner [18:39:25] I'll also send out an email with some of my thoughts/points on template design based on the UX studies [18:41:01] k [18:41:06] i gtg now if that's ok [18:41:28] k off to lunch, later TrevorParscal and happy volcano day [18:43:07] TrevorParscal: sure [18:43:12] we are done [19:15:48] RoanKattouw: are you there? [19:16:35] Yes I'm just wrapping up my other meeting [19:16:55] will u ping me when you can chat? [19:17:04] Yes [19:23:03] nkomura: I'm here, shoot [19:23:10] hi [19:23:29] we initially coupled book creation feature with en.wp go default switch [19:23:45] book creation feature = pediapress [19:23:59] Yes [19:24:05] the change was to enable that feature to annons [19:24:18] since the switch date for en.wp is pushed out and still to be confirmed [19:24:49] Not sure you knew this but there's not really any technical reason to couple those, it was done because Programs wanted it AFAIK [19:25:04] i know [19:25:16] it was more of marketing thing [19:25:46] Yeah I thought so [19:25:56] so we are likely to decouple it and we are thinking of doing the switch for pediapress in the week May 3 [19:26:16] and i wanted to check in your schedule [19:26:52] OK so [19:27:01] For the month of April my primary focus will be my school project [19:27:10] Which is also the reason I didn't use my spare ticket to go back to Berlin today [19:27:25] In May that front will hopefully be quieter [19:27:46] I can definitely set aside a few hours for a deployment any time [19:28:06] since pediapress folks are in europe [19:28:31] it would be helpful if the deployment actually takes place during the business hours in your local time [19:28:36] Yeah [19:28:49] I guess with mark, me and someone from PediaPress sitting on it we should be fine [19:28:51] are there days of the week that you have free time? [19:29:04] I'll have to have a chat with mark about the impact of this thing etc. [19:29:09] Lemme check my new schedule [19:29:59] Looks like Monday and Friday are free [19:30:32] As well as every other Wednesday (even-numbered weeks) [19:31:04] may 5? (is that second week technically as the 1st on sat?) [19:31:26] May 5 is one of those Wednesdays yes [19:31:33] cool [19:31:38] It's also Liberation Day. I personally don't mind but I don't know what Mark's stance is [19:32:05] is it a holiday? [19:32:20] Yes [19:32:36] But it's in the middle of the week so I don't know what Mark's take on it is [19:32:41] I personally don't mind at all [19:33:40] do you want involve mark to monitor the load on pdf server? [19:34:00] Yes, and to provide ops support if needed [19:34:08] I just want someone from ops there, and mark is in my timezone [19:35:34] got it [19:36:36] I will want to talk stuff through with him beforehand, probably with the PediaPress person/people as well [19:36:51] they will be around definitely [19:37:11] i also see hejko_ in this room too :-) [19:37:38] I guess what PP wants is fairly straightforward though [19:37:48] So I can just ask mark what he thinks on IRC some time [19:38:31] that'll be great [19:39:25] hi [19:39:31] need to catch up [19:40:19] hejko_: hi [19:41:12] we were just discussing making the book creation feature enabled for anons in the week of May 3rd per Delphine's request [19:41:44] we will still need to get hold of mark if he is available for the time of the release [19:42:15] RoanKattouw has availability in the week [19:42:57] great. so what we basically need is: review and deployment of really minimal fix in the collection extension. the rest is simple config option to make it available for anonymous users. [19:42:59] hejko_: do you think wednesday 5, is a possibility for folks at pediapress? [19:43:04] *RoanKattouw vaguely wonders how Delphine is involved in all this [19:43:43] having another machine assigned to rendering jobs would be great and we could set this up on our own once it is available. rob wanted to get a quote from the manufacturer. [19:43:43] RoanKattouw: she is working on the marketing/PR with pediapress on this [19:43:52] Oh I didn't know that [19:43:59] hejko_: So you want a pdf3? [19:44:15] Would the current 2-server PDF cluster be up for the increased load? [19:44:26] it would make sense if we extrapolate the current load [19:45:21] wed 5th would be okay, yes. [19:46:05] the current 2-server setup might not be able to handle the load if this feature gets press coverage. [19:46:33] anyway, we could add EC2 instances to the worker pool if that is okay for the tech team. [19:47:03] EC2? [19:47:14] of course a PDF3 would b our preferred solution. [19:47:26] Amazon elastic computing clud [19:47:29] cloud [19:48:08] hejko_: do we need to make the system impact before we set the release date? [19:48:36] *hejko_ does not understand "system impact" [19:48:43] i was speaking with the assumption that infrastructure is in place and the change was only for the software and config change [19:49:02] i mean the system load [19:49:05] yes it is. [19:49:30] hejko_: We'll have to discuss that with mark [19:49:46] if the system gets under pressure it will politely ask users to come back later, which prevents the system to break down. [19:50:05] k [19:50:44] If worst comes to worst we can just revert to the old need-to-be-logged-in situation to relieve load [19:51:42] i think above solution is sufficient [19:52:08] I think the conclusion of this all is we need to talk to mark [19:52:22] re-disabling it would not be compatible with our planned press release ... [19:52:57] Also these PDFs are cached, right? [19:52:59] do you want me to participate in this talk? [19:53:07] yes [19:53:16] Yes, it'll be you, me and Mark [19:53:33] e.g. articles linked on the main page or the main page itself are usually cached [19:53:43] ok. when? [19:53:52] I'll send an e-mail to Mark asking about that [19:54:05] My suspicion is he's either traveling home or just got there tonight [19:54:14] hejko_: What's your e-mail address? [19:54:31] heiko at pediapress dot com [19:54:41] hejko_: Also, would it be OK for me to say any time during business hours works? [19:55:01] if these are european business houres, yes [19:55:05] Yes, they are [19:55:08] ok [19:55:12] Mark and I live in .nl [19:55:43] ok. i am hejkoh on skype [19:55:50] mark just replied to my email on another topic [19:55:55] he is still on the train [19:56:00] OK [19:56:54] on a different topic: we need someone to look after https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=21136 to get the PDF thing to work on wikisource. Thomas V has no time to fix it and he suggested anyone who knows the API might be able to solve it. [19:57:48] hejko_: it'd be good to start a to-do list and capture dependencies [19:58:02] do you mind that page to be publicly accessible? [19:58:12] hejko_: Has nothing to do with the API, it's ProofreadPage's fault for not recording stuff in the pagelinks table or putting the links in the ParserOutput object or however it's supposed to be done [19:59:50] nkomura: no, we can put that on a wiki of course [20:00:23] k [20:02:17] do you have access to this wiki? http://wikitech.wikimedia.org/view/Main_Page [20:02:44] we can also use the usability wiki or mediawiki wiki [20:04:00] we can use this page also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Book_tool/Schedule [20:04:13] hejko_ doesn't have access there no, but we can use any wiki really [20:05:28] sounds good [20:05:41] i need to leave. let's put the dependencies on meta and write mails once we have a date with mark. [20:06:01] I have e-mailed mark, CCed hejko_ and nkomura [20:06:21] ack [20:07:10] thanks, RoanKattouw [20:07:30] k [20:07:37] hejko_: ttyl [20:08:55] *hejko_ still fatigue from the trip to berlin is going to bed now. cu! [20:42:22] Where does the "cap" at the top of the vector skin pages come from? [20:42:38] (The part that starts white and then goes to grey.) [20:45:32] I have no idea [20:46:00] You should ask Trevor some time tomorrow, he's still stuck in Berlin so he's keeping CEST hours now [20:49:51] I figured it out thanks to Chrome's Developer Tools. \o/ [20:49:52] Thanks. :-)