[01:18:00] hi nkomura [01:18:24] hi werdna. how're you? [01:18:56] I'm well. Taking a mental health day off uni so I can get some things done [01:19:23] good for you [01:19:30] when does the summer vacation start? [01:20:29] well, it's only a month, and it's late June [01:20:41] I find my exam timetable next tuesday, I'll know for sure then. [01:20:58] my summer vacation is early November to March 1 [01:22:15] ah, i keep forgetting we have reversed seasons ;) [01:24:18] indeed [01:30:33] when are you going to visit us in SF? [01:31:49] I don't know. I was actually just looking into the possibility of a general US trip in my summer holidays, but I am hoping earlier. [01:32:09] I spoke to Danese about it in Berlin; she says you're mostly busy the week and a bit before Wikimania, but that we'd check with you. [01:32:45] I'd be happy to drop in for a little bit before Wikimania, Europe's almost the same distance through SE Asia or North America [01:55:36] i think june would be a good timing [01:55:58] werdna: sorry, i was on email and didn't notice your reply [02:03:28] nkomura: it's cool [02:03:50] nkomura: It would have to be the last week or two of June, but it's perfectly doable on my end [02:06:25] will u head out to wikimania from SF, if your trip to SF works out? [02:30:55] yes [02:30:56] that's the plan [02:31:02] it's almost the same distance anyways [02:36:32] $2700 via SF, $2000 through Singapore [02:36:36] so it's not the same cost :) [02:36:37] that'll work out perfectly [02:37:01] but cheaper than $2000 + $1000 [02:37:10] do you have to go back with the same route? [02:37:18] no, I already have a ticket back from London [02:37:22] spare RTW leg [02:37:39] RTW? [02:37:46] round the world [02:37:54] nice [02:38:16] how long is the RTW open usually? [02:38:42] 2 years [02:38:49] from December 2008 [02:46:34] do you find it cost effective than buying bunch of cheap round trips? [02:48:24] I didn't buy it for this purpose, it was originally because I was going to use it for a single trip around the world, but it turned out that the RTW ticket couldn't get me the flight I wanted back to Sydney [02:48:48] so I rebooked the London to Sydney leg for the far future, under the assumption that it would be helpful at some later date [02:50:59] i see [02:51:36] k, let's discuss how we can work together on LQT in June [02:52:35] will u send me a short email summary the status of the project, where you want to take it to the next, and how the user experience team can help the project? [02:52:55] i'll start the discussion with parul and trevor [02:54:18] k, time for me to go get dinner [02:54:21] ttyl [11:44:11] Hey is anyone online? I think I have just found a bug with this... [11:44:27] Or a problem which seems to be happening to me [11:44:58] If I do the following : $wgWikiEditorModules['toc']['global'] = false; // Enable the TOC for everyone and paste a block of text into the editor, firefox crashes completely. [17:34:13] hi roan [17:34:43] Hey [17:52:36] RoanKattouw: we need to pick some things to release to commons today [17:52:41] Yes [17:52:54] what's your avail. in the next few hours? [17:53:27] I can work [17:53:40] I was just about to do something else but WMF work sounds more fun :) [17:54:12] Wanna talk about that right now? [17:58:25] yes [17:58:38] so, we need to change the config for the left nav [17:59:02] and push the bug-fixes for the Vector skin and the Vector and WikiEditor extensions [17:59:03] Etherpad? [18:00:09] sure [18:00:24] hi howief [18:00:41] hey TrevorParscal [18:00:46] *RoanKattouw creates an Etherpad [18:01:14] http://eiximenis.wikimedia.org/xDds7Foset [18:02:10] When are we executing these tasks? Today? [18:03:04] yes [18:03:15] OK [18:03:20] Which fixes do we want to push? [18:03:29] .htc fix for Vector I presume [18:03:45] And any other Vector bugfixes [18:03:56] *RoanKattouw figures out what the baseline rev for Vector on 1.16wmf4 is [18:04:17] huh, htc [18:04:39] yes [18:04:46] looking [18:04:55] http://www.mediawiki.org/w/index.php?path=%2Ftrunk%2Fphase3%2Fskins&title=Special%3ACode%2FMediaWiki%2Fpath [18:05:00] when i proposed usage of that about 3,5 years ago, they have been throwing stones on me... [18:06:13] We use HTC exclusively to make :hover on IE6 owrk [18:06:14] what rev is currently deployed? [18:06:16] *work [18:06:27] RoanKattouw: and not cause JS errors that break the page [18:06:35] for ie 5.5 and 6 [18:06:39] 62811, with some things merged in [18:06:42] and i actually just wanted that for png transparency and :hover handling and possibly position: fixed [18:07:40] Hm does https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=22916 happen on production? Sounds like it may have been a regression [18:08:27] it was fixed long ago [18:08:36] TrevorParscal: I'm also wary of deploying http://www.mediawiki.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Code/MediaWiki/64426&path=%2Ftrunk%2Fphase3%2Fskins for the reason outlined in the comments [18:08:39] Not that long ago [18:08:42] That fix was never deployed [18:08:51] But then possibly neither was the rev breaking it [18:09:10] the lesser of 2 evils is, without this patch w3c validator yells at us [18:10:41] And with it I fear user JS may break [18:15:15] I think that's pretty much it for Vector [18:15:20] Gonna look at UI revs now [18:17:28] k [18:18:53] Added some, please take a look [18:22:19] looking good [18:22:24] yes, those accesibility issues [18:22:28] that was as per maria's talk [18:22:30] did you see that [18:22:31] ? [18:22:45] I couldn't make the talk [18:22:48] But I saw the revs [18:24:14] TrevorParscal: Middle-click is the equivalent of Ctrl+click on computers that have sane mice ;) [18:24:23] ha ha ha [18:24:37] it was also an issue for pop-up menus [18:25:01] Seriously that 'touch' mouse of yours... Mark said he loved those mice while for me they just make my fingers hurt after scrolling for a bit [18:25:20] hmm [18:25:30] i find it wonderful - but to each their own [18:25:31] :) [18:26:01] So, we are gonna deploy the lazy-loading then? Even without a working spinner? [18:30:31] Yes [18:30:37] the spinner is just eye-candy [18:30:44] I mean, it does serve a purpose [18:30:59] but it's better to have the lazy loading without the spinner than the other way around [18:32:28] OK [18:34:03] I think we pretty much got it [18:34:22] yeah [18:34:38] good catch on that modern bug [18:34:48] that's the one we did in berlin while sibrand watched [18:34:51] You remember it, I'm sure [18:34:53] Yes [18:35:02] He said he loved watching us in action like that [18:35:22] I remember how back when I first visited the office in July, the entire week was like that [18:35:37] i realized that wmf skin does not contain the feed icon. was it disabled on purpose? [18:36:17] When I got home on Monday, the Bugzilla Weekly Report had us at #1 and #2 in top bug resolvers, with 50 bugs fixed between the two of us [18:36:29] i saw that [18:36:35] Danny_B: Something happened to RSS stuff. Don't think it's related to Vector [18:36:42] I was working in my hotel room at night while people slept [18:37:14] RoanKattouw: if i looked correctly, the trunk has it but the wmf stylesheets have some override [18:37:16] Saw what? [18:38:13] OK I'm gonna start merging those revs now [18:38:33] awesome [18:38:35] thank you! [18:38:46] TrevorParscal: I was talking about my July office visit, not Berlin. Although we did squash a good few bugs in that week as well [18:39:52] oh - yeah... right [18:40:05] yes, we had lots of tandem commits that time too [18:40:08] In one week we fixed 50 bugs and implemented most of OptIn [18:40:10] Yeah [19:03:36] TrevorParscal: OK, revs merged. When do we roll? [19:03:46] let's push that to test [19:03:54] verify all these things are fixed one at a time [19:03:58] then roll [19:04:07] OK [19:04:25] I will need to change test.wikipedia.org's setup a little bit [19:04:28] So it no longer uses bits.wikimedia.org [19:04:42] Enabling us to test CSS/JS changes without pushing stuff cluster-wide first [19:04:56] very good idea [19:05:40] Oh looks like I already did that [19:06:52] i need to grab something to eat [19:06:56] push to test [19:07:02] I will come back in like 10 minutes [19:07:08] (eat at desk day) [19:15:34] Push to test done [19:18:50] k [19:18:53] lookin now [19:19:03] CollapsibleNav should be enabled on test too [19:19:59] The .htc thing can't really be tested here because testwiki's stylepath is local [19:20:25] The variants in menu code was pushed but not enabled [19:21:12] monospace fonts are the right size now -> http://test.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Trevor_Parscal [19:21:39] ood [19:21:47] *RoanKattouw needs to fix his 'g' key [19:21:56] In fact I need to take all the keys out and clean below that [19:22:01] Nice task for this weekend [19:22:19] Every time I try to do that, I just end up buying a new keyboard. [19:22:23] So gross what's in there. [19:22:44] Though this most recent keyboard has flat keys, which prevents dirt. [19:23:16] This keyboard is the one on my laptop, I can't really just buy a new one [19:23:33] Unless I buy a completely new laptop, but this one's not quite that old yet (nearly 2 years) [19:24:18] TrevorParscal: test looks good to me. When you wanna push to the live site, let me know [19:25:33] You clean below laptop keys? [19:26:22] in a sec [19:26:39] Ashlee: No, but I need to start [19:26:49] It's a damn mess in there and my g key is acting up [19:28:37] RoanKattouw: how can we verify the click tracking fix? [19:29:31] TrevorParscal: Lemme set the throttle to 1:1 on test [19:29:37] k [19:34:50] Sset [19:34:52] *Set [19:35:40] Oh oops [19:35:47] ... [19:37:26] Bleh I made a mistake [19:37:38] Fixin [19:39:20] Set now [19:39:36] Fix looks good [19:41:20] TrevorParscal: ClickTracking throttle now set to 1 on test, fix looks good [19:41:22] ( [19:41:25] (left nav links) [19:41:44] yup [19:41:44] ok [19:41:50] you can throttle it off now [19:41:51] :) [19:42:42] i say we deploy [19:42:57] do we need to notify any ops people [19:43:07] give heads up [19:43:36] I'll just !log it [19:43:56] Oooh I see you whiteboarded some Wikimania talk topics, nice [19:44:12] yup [19:46:10] Scapping [19:50:11] TrevorParscal: All done [19:50:30] lookin [19:52:07] looks great [19:52:37] Cool [20:16:09] TrevorParscal: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:Code/MediaWiki/65962 [20:16:31] hooray [20:47:52] RoanKattouw: on every page ? are the opera issues solved then ? [20:48:22] No idea [20:48:31] I just put this in trunk [20:48:38] Won't be deployed on WMF just yet [20:49:13] It is jQuery 1.4.2 as opposed to 1.3.2 though, maybe the jQuery folks fixed that [20:49:22] http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Chained_streams.ogg [20:49:32] And my rev provides for $wgJQueryOnEveryPage = false; [20:49:34] stupid pasteboard [20:49:35] https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19586 [20:51:29] From reading the bug it looks like the problems are with mwsuggest.js rather than jQuery [20:51:35] Although jQuery's presence seems to trigger the bug [20:52:21] Like, I totally see why Opera 8 explodes on mwsuggest.js [20:52:30] I just don't see what the hell it's got to do with jQuery [20:52:47] well it seems jquery just aggrevates it indeed. [20:53:21] ah, august.. that explains why i didn't remember anymore that i already looked into the bug at some time :D [20:53:30] Did you experiment with your suggested modifications to mwsuggest? [20:54:15] (Gotta go now, back in 30 mins or so) [20:58:57] he, the menu collapsers on Commons are live now ? [21:16:03] RoanKattouw_away: i need you to fix something on the cluster [21:16:31] there's an image (skins/vector/images/down-arrow.png) which needs to be pushed as well [21:16:36] it seems to have been skiped over [21:17:04] it goes with the CSS changes made for displaying the variant name [21:18:11] i switched from center center background alignment to right center - and added some invisible pixels to the right of the arrow - this helped me accomplish the variant menu thing.. [21:18:42] now on all projects, the arrow (which hasn't been updated) is too far to the right [21:22:32] nevermind [21:22:34] http://bits.wikimedia.org/skins-1.5/vector/images/arrow-down-icon.png?action=purge worked [21:23:16] youtube and google seem to have adopted vector too :P [21:23:27] ? [21:23:48] they both have new styles which are in some ways similar [21:24:22] oh [21:24:23] yes [21:24:29] it's trendy now i gues [21:30:42] RoanKattouw_away: i still need your help [21:35:15] Yeah? [21:35:21] ok [21:35:37] skins/vector/images/arrow-down.png [21:36:00] Does the URL have a style version appended to it? [21:36:16] no, it's referenced by a CSS file [21:36:18] a static file [21:36:26] so we need to add one [21:36:36] I guess we should be adding those to everything [21:36:59] this is an example of why switching to using a CDN overnight without discussing it with developers first is a bad idea [21:37:10] CDN = good, the way this went down = bad [21:37:49] no need to add one [21:37:52] just change the name of the file [21:37:57] to waht? [21:38:05] we are going to run out of names at some point :) [21:38:08] my keyboard is kinda broken now so i can"t type capitals or slash keys :( [21:38:21] arrow dash down two dot png ? [21:38:32] arrow-down..png ? [21:38:34] (all kinds of stuff is broken on my keyboard sorry [21:38:38] heh [21:38:40] works [21:38:52] ewww [21:39:09] arrow-down.png?IHateBitsDotWikimediaDotOrg [21:39:23] i think a version number is fine [21:39:33] I can commit the CSS file with version numbers on everything [21:39:37] if you do that i will tell domas where you live :p [21:39:38] it will just require updating [21:39:44] ok [21:42:56] having version numbers on everything is kinda silly though [21:42:57] RoanKattouw: ok - commited [21:43:18] it's cleaner than changing the names of images every time they need tweaking [21:43:23] True [21:43:35] But lemme ask Domas whether there's a way to purge stuff [21:45:02] TrevorParscal: IMO changing the names every time is the right strategy [21:45:28] TrevorParscal: this CDN-compatible thing I designed previously appends the MD5 hash to the filename, so if the file doesn't change, no problem [21:45:48] you could probably get away with just the first five chars of an MD5 hash if you find the URLs too ugly [21:45:52] flipzagging: Does it also magically do that for background-image: url(foo.png) rules inside CSS style sheets? [21:45:55] yup [21:45:59] :O [21:46:03] but this was another job and not open source [21:46:09] or rather [21:46:14] We use $wgStyleVersion for all images, CSS, JS referenced in HTML [21:46:35] it wasn't magic, the CSS file was a PHP file like any other, that just had the right mime-type [21:46:54] when the time came to make a CDN copy, just run php css.php > 12345.css [21:46:59] deploy [21:47:16] Ah, right [21:47:36] So the PHP file had stuff like [21:47:51] TrevorParscal: I really hate style versions on everything in the CSS file, other skins don't do it either renaming or appending query strings in individual cases makes more sense to me [21:48:02] background: url( ) etc. [21:48:04] anyway. [21:49:00] here's an example. [21:49:01] http://l.yimg.com/jb/css/default_5ee81297d7cee5a7bca152cea124e17c.css [21:49:07] RoanKattouw: fair enough, it's essentially the same thing, but by adding them to all images from the start, it will likely reduce the number of times people forget to add a style version for the first time [21:49:09] just a hunch [21:49:14] I have no evidence of my claim [21:49:35] Hm, maybe [21:49:42] Oh it's just ?1 that's not too bad [21:49:54] Bleh I'll just deploy that [21:50:01] I'm not gonna argue at 10 to midnight [21:50:05] ha ha [21:50:47] believe me, I don't like it from a cleanliness perspective, but it seems like adding 2 characters like this will be more sane than allot of SVN moves or having some with ?1 and some without... [21:50:57] We could argue some more about how you hate bits and I don't, but I'd be depriving myself of sleep [21:51:13] I actually love bits [21:51:44] I just like to rant about the struggles to make thinks work with it being grossly underestimated upon it's deployment [21:52:05] It's not that bad, you just gotta know [21:52:24] Am I ranting too much / too often? [21:52:30] ha ha [21:52:32] People were probably saying this about Squid at some point [21:53:10] Not necessarily too much or too often [21:53:19] More like too unbased [21:53:42] well, I think in the long run it's a great thing, I'm just ammused / irritated with how un-researched the change over was [21:54:01] Yeah its implications weren't really communicated very well I uess [21:54:20] anyways [21:54:23] sorry to rant at you [21:54:40] No worries [21:54:45] did you merge that in yet? [21:54:55] I let people rant all they want as long as I feel they have something solid to rant about/at [21:55:02] or should I say - could you please merge that in and deploy that today [21:55:03] Committing merge [21:55:07] wow, no one complained about the collapsed sidebar items yet on Commons. what a miracle. [21:55:18] I am going to blog about it I think... maybe [21:55:23] Today means within 5 mins for me [21:55:54] what about the searchbox ? or is it not yet finished ? [21:55:58] Merged, deploying now [21:56:33] it will be deployed next week when we push to en-wp [21:56:39] i loved what i saw of it on the prototype servers. looked really nice. [21:56:43] we're working a few minor things out still [21:56:51] thanks! [21:57:26] Deployed [21:58:37] thank you! [22:01:06] OK it's now officially Thursday here so I'm gonna o [22:01:08] *go [22:40:42] hello hello [22:51:04] <^demon> Hey [22:56:58] thought I was late, but apparently I start at 11, not 10 [22:57:00] free time! [23:47:43] nkomura: you around? [23:47:53] hey [23:47:56] hi :) [23:48:11] haven't spoken to you for a while... [23:48:17] how have you been? [23:48:46] I've been good :). been really busy with work since getting back [23:50:12] i could imagine