[00:00:05] <guillom>	nkomura: & flipzagging : how would you feel about doing a Multimedia usability Brown bag lunch on Tuesday 25 April? (in 2 weeks)
[00:00:37] <guillom>	Dispenser: please explain how Microsoft office is a good example. Oh, wait, actually, don't :)
[00:01:24] <Dispenser>	because Microsoft dug up research they did on usability that they did 10 year before
[00:02:17] <nkomura>	guillom: good idea
[00:02:19] <mikelifeguard>	I'm trying to put an image on the background, but I can't see how to get the part in between the tabs at the left and the tabs at the right to be transparent: http://toolserver.org/~lifeguard/User:Mike.lifeguard-vector.css%20-%20Meta_1273622394829.png Any hints?
[00:02:21] <Dispenser>	anyone who's used Creative Writer 2 will note the striking resemblance
[00:03:31] <flipzagging>	guillom: fine with me
[00:04:18] <nkomura>	works for me to, although there is a remote chance that i may take a week off in that week or the following
[00:04:22] <guillom>	Dispenser: perhaps Microsoft doesn't have an international and cross-cultural audience as we do -- or perhaps they don't care ; body parts can have a lot of different meanings across cultures and it's a bad idea to use them considering our audience
[00:06:27] <nkomura>	mikelifeguard: why can't you use the beta until meta goes default?
[00:06:48] <guillom>	nkomura: if you take that week off, we can push it later to the week after
[00:07:07] <mikelifeguard>	I'm not sure what you mean. I am using vector.
[00:07:34] <nkomura>	i see "Try Beta" link on the top
[00:08:07] <mikelifeguard>	Oh. I don't really want any of the other stuff. Just the vector skin. I already hide half the cruft on the monobook edit form with css, for example :)
[00:08:13] *mikelifeguard 	doesn't want any more
[00:08:36] <mikelifeguard>	I'm a power user (rawr) I don't need the insert link dialog, wonderful though it may be :P
[00:08:37] <nkomura>	i see :-)
[00:09:05] <nkomura>	i think TrevorParscal would be the best person to help you to make the space between left and right tabs transparent
[00:09:39] <nkomura>	or someone on mediawiki-l may be able to help you
[00:10:14] <mikelifeguard>	hm, true. wonder if I'm still subscribed to that...
[00:10:38] <mikelifeguard>	anyways thanks, I'll either email the list or steal a moment of his while he's not busy sometimes :)
[00:15:54] <nkomura>	mikelifeguard: yw :-)
[00:18:29] <mikelifeguard>	BTW, the 'My contributions' link in p-personal has id=pt-mycontris - seems to be missing a b if it is supposed to be "pt-mycontribs" :)
[00:40:50] <thedj>	mikelifeguard: yeah, but the bug is so old, that no one wants to fix it.
[00:44:24] <mikelifeguard>	guh, the people who quibble over 1px differences don't want to fix a typo? UNPOSSIBLE!
[00:44:54] <howief>	TrevorParscal: quick question
[00:45:06] <howief>	if i join the beta and subsequently disable the toolbar
[00:45:31] <howief>	what happens when we go default?  the toolbar gets turned back on, right?
[09:24:05] <hannes-_->	werdna: are you there?
[09:24:05] <werdna>	hannes-_-: You sent me a contentless ping.  This is a contentless pong.  Please provide a bit of information about what you want and I will respond when I am around.
[09:27:22] <hannes-_->	werdna: I want you to want to help me
[09:31:46] <hannes-_->	enhydra: hi, are you there?
[09:32:11] <enhydra>	hannes-_-, somewhat; but I’m going away in 30 or 40 minutes
[09:32:37] <hannes-_->	I saw that you hang around in #wikipedia-de - dou you speak german?
[09:32:45] <enhydra>	no
[09:32:53] <enhydra>	I just don’t close windows
[09:32:57] <hannes-_->	ok anyway
[09:33:15] <enhydra>	do `/whois enhydra` and see :)
[09:33:20] <hannes-_->	I cannot edit the foundation wiki anymore....
[09:33:45] <hannes-_->	I made an edit - saved - and clicked edit again and than my text disappeared
[09:33:53] <hannes-_->	all I see are some stranged characters
[09:34:06] <enhydra>	screenshot please?
[09:34:08] <hannes-_->	do you have any idea what that is?
[09:34:10] <hannes-_->	sure
[09:35:47] <werdna>	hannes-_-: I'm here
[09:35:58] <werdna>	hannes-_-: I have a question, though
[09:36:58] <hannes-_->	http://usability.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Foundationwiki.jpg
[09:37:36] <werdna>	hannes-_-: what about it?
[09:37:44] <hannes-_->	what happend?
[09:38:09] <hannes-_->	I didn t do that change.
[09:38:23] <enhydra>	oh, Arabic
[09:38:28] <hannes-_->	when I edit the wiki and save it changes to something weird like you can see in the screenshot
[09:38:46] <enhydra>	could you paste it from somewhere by accident?
[09:38:50] <hannes-_->	but on read mode the article is just fine.
[09:38:54] <hannes-_->	no
[09:38:58] <hannes-_->	I happens all the time
[09:39:05] <hannes-_->	I tried several times
[09:40:51] <hannes-_->	ok I tried againb
[09:40:58] <hannes-_->	if I just add "hi"
[09:41:01] <hannes-_->	everythin is fine
[09:41:08] <werdna>	hannes-_-: so you're having trouble editing?
[09:41:22] <hannes-_->	but if I add another section everything disappears
[09:41:26] <hannes-_->	werdna: yes!!
[09:41:37] <werdna>	what error message do you get
[09:42:07] <hannes-_->	there is no error message. but the sourcecode of the article just changes to something weird
[09:42:18] <hannes-_->	this time it is: beige<noinclude>[[Category:Template traduzzioni|bgclr]]</noinclude>
[09:42:32] <hannes-_->	and the code of the article is gone
[09:42:46] <werdna>	odd
[09:42:51] <werdna>	do you know where that comes from?
[09:42:56] <werdna>	do you have scripts enabled?
[09:43:00] <werdna>	does it happen for anybody else?
[09:43:03] <hannes-_->	I have no idea
[09:43:11] <werdna>	tried using a different browser?
[09:43:18] <hannes-_->	I ll try that
[09:43:59] <hannes-_->	btw it s about this article: http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Wikimedia_official_marks/Word_mark_creation
[09:44:56] <hannes-_->	ohhh
[09:45:01] <werdna>	happen on other articles?
[09:45:08] <hannes-_->	I found a solution
[09:45:15] <hannes-_->	I disabled ntoc
[09:45:26] <hannes-_->	that s strange
[09:45:51] <werdna>	interesting
[09:45:52] <hannes-_->	I don t even knwo how to fill a bugreport about that
[09:46:04] <werdna>	hannes-_-: incidentally, when Europeans go overseas to escape winter, where do they go?
[09:46:20] <werdna>	my friend and I are looking to go somewhere fun over the Southern Hemisphere summer
[09:46:39] <hannes-_->	you mean... like ibiza?
[09:47:17] <hannes-_->	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibiza
[09:47:29] <hannes-_->	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuerteventura
[09:47:32] <hannes-_->	something like that?
[09:47:46] <werdna>	12-15 in november
[09:47:47] <werdna>	too cold
[09:48:02] <hannes-_->	oh you wanna go in november?
[09:48:22] <werdna>	yeah
[09:48:30] <hannes-_->	what about australia?
[09:48:37] <hannes-_->	I heard it s fun
[09:48:39] <hannes-_->	:P
[09:49:04] <werdna>	pssch
[09:49:08] <werdna>	there are australians here
[09:49:25] <hannes-_->	south africa
[09:51:35] <werdna>	really?
[09:51:39] <werdna>	it's not even that warm :p
[09:53:02] <hannes-_->	didn t you say you don t like it if it s too hot?
[09:54:04] <werdna>	depends
[10:44:56] <hejko>	hi, another question. will the skin which gets deployed tomorrow, feature those collapsible sections in the navigational bar?
[11:50:19] <werdna>	hi ^demon
[11:50:41] <werdna>	wow it's 10pm already
[11:50:45] <werdna>	wtf have I been doing for 4 hours?
[11:56:49] <hannes_mittach>	hejko: are you talking about the left navigation?
[11:57:11] <hejko>	yes
[11:59:03] <hannes-_->	yes I think that will be included
[12:08:07] <hejko>	mhm, then why wasn't that added to the beta?
[12:09:16] <hejko>	are these collapsible or collapsed by default?
[12:10:47] <hannes-_->	they should be collabsed by default
[12:11:15] <hannes-_->	but for some reason the interaction section is opened as default
[12:11:40] <hannes-_->	I have no idea why it is not in beta
[12:11:57] <hannes-_->	but I believe the book creation section should be added as well
[12:13:05] <hejko>	yes, probably.
[12:25:50] <^demon>	werdna: Hey, sorry I've been out getting breakfast and stuff and getting ready for one of my finals :)
[12:30:23] <werdna>	:)
[12:30:24] <werdna>	yay finals
[12:39:46] <^demon>	Yep, gotta leave for one now. Last one is at 5pm today :)
[13:25:55] <hannes-_->	RoanKattouw: hi, wanna hear a stange bug?
[13:26:20] <RoanKattouw>	Sure
[13:28:11] <hannes-_->	I wrote on the logo howto on the foundation wiki... and after working for an hours without any problems I saved. than i clicked on edit again, but the code was gone and all there was were some strange characters
[13:28:15] <hannes-_->	see her: http://usability.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Foundationwiki.jpg
[13:28:50] <hannes-_->	I reverted my edit and tried again, witht he same result (though different strange characters)
[13:29:11] <hannes-_->	I found out that this only happens when I add a section
[13:29:30] <hannes-_->	and I stopped happening when I disabled notc
[13:29:32] <hannes-_->	ntoc
[13:29:39] <hannes-_->	usinf ff3.6
[13:29:51] <hannes-_->	weird, huh?
[13:30:10] <RoanKattouw>	That's weird, yeah
[13:30:48] <hannes-_->	I don't even know how to fill a bugreport about it
[13:30:57] <hannes-_->	maybe we ignore it...until it happens to more users
[13:35:05] <RoanKattouw>	Well AFAIK enabling NTOC doesn't even work on WMF wikis
[13:35:11] <RoanKattouw>	Like, it shouldn't have any effect
[13:37:08] <hannes-_->	but it s there as aan option
[13:37:15] <hannes-_->	and creates that strange effect
[13:58:24] <hannes-_->	hi adam_miller
[13:58:36] <adam_miller>	what up hannes-_-
[13:58:53] <hannes-_->	can anyone tell me why the link to the motherpage doesn t appear here: http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Word_mark_creation/howto_W?
[14:00:20] <RoanKattouw>	Does the mother page exist?
[14:00:54] <RoanKattouw>	Nope, it does not
[14:01:15] <hannes-_->	wtf?
[14:01:24] <hannes-_->	http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Wikimedia_official_marks/Word_mark_creation
[14:01:44] <hannes-_->	�hh ok I guess I have to use the whole path
[14:03:15] <hannes-_->	ok that works.
[14:05:49] <RoanKattouw>	Yes
[14:06:11] <RoanKattouw>	Because there could be a [[Wikimedia unofficial marks/Word mark creation]] as well, in theory, for example
[14:07:28] <hannes-_->	can u delete the other page?
[14:07:45] <hannes-_->	this one http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Word_mark_creation/howto_W
[14:07:48] <hannes-_->	can be deleted
[15:16:26] <bastique>	Dammit
[15:16:46] <bastique>	guillom, how do I bypass this f__ing "you must provide a licence" notice
[15:16:48] <bastique>	on Commons
[15:17:04] <bastique>	License is {{copyright by Wikimedia}}
[15:17:35] <guillom>	bastique: I don't want to hear anything about how broken the current uploader is :)
[15:17:48] <bastique>	ah, it's asking for author and stuff too
[15:17:55] <bastique>	okay: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Wikipedia-logo-v2-en.svg
[15:21:00] <bastique>	hannes-_-, I believe you can start uploading to Commons
[15:21:13] <bastique>	Jay has already begun creating the page on foundation wiki
[15:22:04] <hannes-_->	bastique: hi
[15:22:20] <hannes-_->	yeah I have been working on the howto too
[15:22:31] <hannes-_->	it s amlost good to go
[15:22:40] <bastique>	I made this page
[15:22:41] <bastique>	http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia/2.0/worksheet
[15:22:46] <hannes-_->	I ll have to figur out some inkxcap stuff
[15:22:51] <bastique>	redlinks
[15:22:58] <bastique>	make it easy to get to an upload page
[15:23:31] <hannes-_->	yesterday all my files that I ve uploaded to commons got deletet
[15:23:38] <bastique>	!!!!
[15:23:38] --elephant--	I don't know anything about "!!!".
[15:23:42] <bastique>	Did you not put a license on them?
[15:23:46] <bastique>	shut up elephant
[15:24:14] <hannes-_->	I mean the screenshots for the howto
[15:24:21] <hannes-_->	they violate copyright
[15:24:26] <hannes-_->	which is actually true
[15:24:39] <hannes-_->	but that was lots of work....for nothing :(
[15:24:57] <guillom>	hannes-_-: why do they violate copyright?
[15:25:11] <hannes-_->	adobe product
[15:25:37] <guillom>	ah, right
[15:25:40] <bastique>	ayee... upload to meta instead
[15:25:45] <guillom>	hahaha
[15:25:46] <hannes-_->	we should remove the screenshots on the howto for textformat icons, too
[15:25:50] <guillom>	they'll be deleted too on meta
[15:28:08] <bastique>	It would help to have LIbertine on my home PC
[15:28:30] <bastique>	hannes-_-, Otourly is helping me with creating the logos
[15:28:32] <Otourly>	hi all
[15:31:22] <hannes-_->	hi
[15:31:50] <hannes-_->	bastique: did you get the libertine font file?
[15:31:57] <bastique>	now I do
[15:32:01] <hannes-_->	with our W included?
[15:32:06] <hannes-_->	good
[15:32:23] <hannes-_->	so where can we host that file?
[15:32:30] <hannes-_->	we need to find a place for it
[15:32:50] <Otourly>	bastique: where is this file ?
[15:33:05] <bastique>	no
[15:33:14] <bastique>	I don't have the "W" version
[15:33:17] <bastique>	But we have the W
[15:33:25] <bastique>	in vector format
[15:33:29] <hannes-_->	I ve sent it to you
[15:33:32] <hannes-_->	some days ago
[15:33:38] <hannes-_->	check inbox :P
[15:33:50] <hannes-_->	or I ll resend, wait
[15:34:37] <Otourly>	could I have a copy ?
[15:34:44] <Otourly>	otourly@yahoo.fr
[15:35:52] <hannes-_->	sent
[15:36:04] <bastique>	hannes-_-, since I'm not really going to be retyping the W into the logo, preferring to take it from existing logos, is there really a pressing need for me to use the "W" font?
[15:36:49] <Otourly>	because there is a problème with the shadow of http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Wikipedia-logo-v2-en.svg
[15:37:01] <Otourly>	problem'
[15:37:17] <bastique>	ah, still?
[15:37:21] <bastique>	 :9
[15:37:22] <bastique>	:(
[15:38:14] <Otourly>	bastique: I use Inkscape also...
[15:38:34] <bastique>	Off-topic, I was asked to send a list of the French awardees to someone.
[15:38:45] <bastique>	I realized afterwards, I only had to search for � in the names
[15:39:02] <^demon>	bastique: Also off topic...Did you see my song?
[15:40:08] *guillom 	throws a badger at bastique
[15:40:32] <bastique>	^demon, yes, it was great :)
[15:41:19] <^demon>	:D
[15:41:43] <Otourly>	hi guillom
[15:41:52] <bastique>	Okay, I'm going to try the Swedish logo
[15:41:57] <bastique>	since that is No. 11
[15:41:58] <guillom>	salut Otourly
[15:42:19] <bastique>	I'm going to add ruler lines too
[15:42:59] <bastique>	4px from the bottom
[15:43:41] <hannes-_->	ruler lines?
[15:43:48] <hannes-_->	should be included, no?
[15:43:53] <bastique>	Yes, Inkscape has ruler lines.
[15:43:59] <hannes-_->	which file do you use as a start?
[15:44:01] <bastique>	They don't appear in the rendered version
[15:44:06] <bastique>	Oh, the one Jay uploaded to foundationwiki
[15:44:17] <hannes-_->	where=
[15:44:18] <hannes-_->	?
[15:44:29] <bastique>	http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/File:Wikipedia-logo-v2-en_SVG.svg
[15:44:32] <hannes-_->	oh shoot... this is wrong I guess
[15:44:36] <hannes-_->	thats englisch
[15:44:43] <hannes-_->	thats not the propper blueprint file
[15:44:48] <bastique>	Also, the W and A don't match on top
[15:44:49] <Otourly>	look this shadow :s
[15:44:58] <bastique>	I see the shadow
[15:45:07] <bastique>	I should get the proper file from collab, I guess
[15:46:09] <hannes-_->	the blueprint file doesn t exist as a svg
[15:46:19] <bastique>	bah
[15:46:27] <hannes-_->	cause I haven t figured out how to create an editable svg
[15:46:32] <Otourly>	http://collab.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Wikipedia-logo-v2-en.svg <= shadow pb
[15:46:39] <bastique>	hannes-_-, Inkscape default format is editable svg
[15:46:52] <hannes-_->	but inkscape cannot open the ai file
[15:47:07] <bastique>	hannes-_-, that's the problem with proprietary software
[15:47:21] <bastique>	You have to export to SVG from ai
[15:47:33] <bastique>	and then clean it up all the horrible Adobe code
[15:47:55] <Otourly>	http://collab.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:100505.svg <= not shadow pb but font is libertine ...
[15:48:23] <bastique>	oh...
[15:48:33] <bastique>	no shadow?
[15:48:41] <hannes-_->	which shadow?!?!
[15:49:07] <bastique>	on the lower right side of the SVG file
[15:49:13] <hannes-_->	also: the font looks horrible on my machine
[15:49:21] <bastique>	no, that is mediawiki
[15:49:28] <bastique>	it can't render Libertine properly
[15:49:31] <bastique>	to PNG
[15:49:40] <bastique>	someone needs to put a bug for that
[15:50:06] <hannes-_->	Otourly: you are working with very old files
[15:50:19] <hannes-_->	that s like last week! ;)
[15:50:26] <Otourly>	hannes-_-: ok
[15:50:55] <Otourly>	bastique: bug already repport
[15:50:58] <hannes-_->	so if someone could tell me how to create a perfect, editable svg from ai....
[15:51:07] <Otourly>	https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=23369
[15:51:19] <bastique>	all SVGs are editable in Inkscape.
[15:51:43] <hannes-_->	do we want the font to be converted to path?
[15:51:48] <hannes-_->	as I have been doing this?
[15:52:09] <hannes-_->	I guess not
[15:53:38] <bastique>	Yes
[15:53:42] <bastique>	we have to convert the font to path
[15:53:45] <Otourly>	hannes-_-: could you send me the correct SVG file ?
[15:53:49] <bastique>	because it won't render otherwise
[15:53:51] <Otourly>	I can't find it
[15:54:12] <bastique>	Otourly, I'm replacing the globe in my file with the one you uploaded
[15:55:29] <hannes-_->	Otourly: how di you change the globe to get rid of the shadow?
[15:56:12] <Otourly>	I have just add a stop point
[15:56:20] <hannes-_->	blueprint file sent to both of you
[15:56:30] <hannes-_->	...what's a "sop point"?
[15:57:04] <bastique>	okay, I'm updating the one I uploaded already
[15:57:41] <bastique>	http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Wikipedia-logo-v2-en.svg
[15:57:50] <bastique>	Otourly, that has ruler lines too
[15:58:21] <Otourly>	ok
[15:58:25] <hannes-_->	bastique: I ll upload the files to commons now. ok?
[15:58:38] <hannes-_->	and you can change the globe after that
[15:58:46] <bastique>	ayeee!
[15:58:47] <hannes-_->	otherwise we will get confusion
[15:59:52] <Otourly>	hannes-_-:just add a point to the color gradient
[16:01:53] <bastique>	and here's my second one.  http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Wikipedia-logo-v2-sv.svg
[16:02:23] <bastique>	which looks different
[16:03:12] <Otourly>	bastique: the ruler lines are not correctly placed, I correct it with the XML editor
[16:03:36] <cary-phone>	Otourly, thank you.
[16:04:31] *cary-phone 	points out that this is how we figure things out.
[16:05:03] <cary-phone>	[[Category:Wikipedia logo]] exist?
[16:05:59] <hannes-_->	how can I add the correct license?
[16:06:19] <hannes-_->	the one you used, carry
[16:15:53] <cary-phone>	yes
[16:16:14] <Otourly>	cary-phone: according to http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Wikimedia_official_marks/Word_mark_creation#Wikipedia_wordmark_creation_grid I have put ruler lines, but the test is not on the line at the bottom of WikipediA
[16:16:20] <Otourly>	text'
[16:16:26] <cary-phone>	ayee
[16:16:42] <Otourly>	http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Wikipedia-logo-v2-en.svg
[16:17:45] <cary-phone>	strange
[16:18:30] <Otourly>	what shall we do ?
[16:19:26] <cary-phone>	http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia/2.0#SVG we have the shadows
[16:22:40] <cary>	okay
[16:22:51] <cary>	They do not exactly line up..
[16:23:04] <cary>	Otourly, what I am thinking is that we focus on the ones that *do* line up.
[16:23:27] <cary>	If we are not changing the word "WikipediA" for instance
[16:23:31] <cary>	leave it :)
[16:23:39] <Otourly>	allright
[16:23:40] <cary>	Chinese is my next one
[16:24:29] <cary>	this should be interesting
[16:25:19] <hannes-_->	http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia/2.0#SVG
[16:25:28] <hannes-_->	top 10 + turkish and slovak
[16:25:32] <cary>	with shadows
[16:25:36] <hannes-_->	with shadows
[16:25:37] <cary>	shadows need to come off
[16:25:47] *cary 	thinks maybe Otourly can *fix* those?
[16:25:57] <hannes-_->	though the pngs are fine, right?
[16:26:02] <cary>	Yes
[16:26:03] <Otourly>	ok
[16:26:06] <Otourly>	I could
[16:26:47] <cary>	actually, I see no PNGs
[16:30:01] <hannes-_->	cary: uploading now
[16:32:05] <Otourly>	de corrected
[16:32:23] <Otourly>	I'll eat soon... so brb
[16:34:54] <cary>	Inkscape doesn't do letter spacing.
[16:35:00] <cary>	That's annoying
[16:41:25] <hannes-_->	the whole software is annoying
[16:47:56] <Otourly>	cary is it correct? http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Wikipedia-logo-v2-de.svg
[16:48:20] <cary>	http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Wikipedia-logo-v2-zh.svg thumbnail problems
[16:48:34] <cary>	Otourly, looks good
[16:48:54] <Otourly>	cary is there a png on this ?
[16:49:07] <cary>	on the zh?
[16:49:22] <hannes-_->	http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia/2.0#PNG
[16:50:09] <hannes-_->	Otourly: cary did you read the howto? if you have some feedback: let me know
[16:51:58] <Otourly>	ok
[16:52:36] <Otourly>	cary I mean some times thumb fail because there is a png in the svg
[16:52:50] <cary>	yes
[16:53:54] *nkomura 	is excited to see new logos in commons :-)
[16:54:10] <nkomura>	congrats! hannes-_-
[16:56:50] <Otourly>	fr corrected
[16:57:36] <hannes-_->	nkomura: ^^
[16:58:10] <nkomura>	it's exciting! and two new logs are already localized?
[16:58:37] <hannes-_->	well... while doing he styleguide I did tukish and slovak
[16:58:53] <hannes-_->	but I think cary and otourly already did some more
[16:59:15] <Otourly>	I just correct then
[16:59:23] <Otourly>	I have PCD ready :P
[16:59:38] <cary>	This is making no sense
[16:59:45] <cary>	I can get the zh one to display properly
[17:04:19] <cary>	http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Wikipedia-logo-v2-zh.svg FINALLY
[17:04:30] <Otourly>	:)
[17:09:04] <cary>	http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Wikipedia-logo-v2-zh.png did this come out right?
[17:10:51] <cary>	No, the globe is too light on those
[17:11:36] *^demon 	just caught on about the logo redesigning stuff
[17:13:20] <^demon>	It looks smaller than normal.
[17:15:16] <nkomura>	^demon: the new logos are scaled down in size
[17:15:37] <cary>	My PNGs are coming up too light
[17:15:44] <cary>	at least the globe is.
[17:16:10] <^demon>	nkomura: Ah. Wish I'd seen the discussion before it happened. Not a fan :(
[17:18:47] <Otourly>	http://collab.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Otourly <= here versus the svg on the right is not really official but really approaching
[17:19:49] <cary>	Yeah, the globe got smaller
[17:20:19] <^demon>	And the lines between the puzzle pieces are fainter.
[17:21:06] <^demon>	Otourly: Was that intended for me?
[17:21:36] <Otourly>	as you want
[17:21:38] <nkomura>	^demon: the new logo design were in works for couple years.  Communications (Jay) will be posting a story later today.
[17:21:56] <^demon>	Otourly: I don't have access to collab ;-)
[17:21:57] <nkomura>	you still can submit your feedback ;)
[17:22:14] <^demon>	nkomura: I know there's been off and on mutterings about fixing it for years, but I wasn't aware people had finally gotten serious about it :)
[17:22:27] <cary>	You know what I'm going to do.  I'm going to just import the text and use the globe from the other PNG files
[17:23:27] <Otourly>	^demon: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Wikipedia_svg_logo-en.svg
[17:36:00] <TrevorParscal>	RoanKattouw: looks like we have bugs to squash
[17:37:17] <RoanKattouw>	We do indeed
[17:37:22] <RoanKattouw>	I've been cleaning up Bugzilla this morning
[17:37:40] <RoanKattouw>	Now sharpening the blades and getting ready to poke at some b ugs
[17:40:20] <TrevorParscal>	good stuff
[17:40:36] <RoanKattouw>	I'm gonna start with the bug Howie reported by e-mail just now
[17:40:52] <TrevorParscal>	I have to make some mods to the PrefSwitch system quickly
[17:41:00] <TrevorParscal>	and then i will be squashing
[17:41:00] <TrevorParscal>	b
[17:41:15] <TrevorParscal>	*bugs in order of some priority...
[17:41:19] <howief>	thanks TrevorParscal
[17:41:28] <TrevorParscal>	:)
[17:41:38] <howief>	i see that the take me back link goes directly to the opt-out/survey form now
[17:41:39] <howief>	nice
[17:41:51] <cary>	Well, the globe looks right but the text looks wrong
[17:42:18] *RoanKattouw 	fires up IE
[17:42:55] <RoanKattouw>	TrevorParscal: Cool. Just make sure to call a bug for yourself when starting to work on it so we don't work on the same thing
[17:43:10] *RoanKattouw 	calls Howie's right-click-on-tabs-in-IE bug
[17:44:02] <TrevorParscal>	RoanKattouw: I will use assignment / IRC to call them
[17:44:11] <RoanKattouw>	OK
[17:44:16] <RoanKattouw>	Thing is most are already assigned to you
[17:44:24] <RoanKattouw>	Because you're the auto-assignee for Vector/UI
[17:45:53] <TrevorParscal>	right
[17:45:58] <TrevorParscal>	use IRC to start working on one then
[17:46:09] <Otourly>	shadow is corrected cary
[17:46:23] <cary>	Great
[17:46:48] <RoanKattouw>	I can take your bugs and assign them to me, I guess you could use NEW -> ASSIGNED
[17:48:26] <RoanKattouw>	TrevorParscal: Do we absolutely need to do <a><span>Text</span></a> ?
[17:49:02] <TrevorParscal>	this is not the first time there's been a reason to switch to just <a>text</a> - it's a CSS layout thing
[17:49:10] <TrevorParscal>	I've yet to figure out a way to avoid this
[17:49:31] <RoanKattouw>	OK
[17:49:34] <TrevorParscal>	I can take another stab at it
[17:49:36] <RoanKattouw>	I'm gonna leave this one to you then
[17:49:47] <RoanKattouw>	And file it in BZ
[17:52:29] <TrevorParscal>	k
[17:54:06] <RoanKattouw>	!b 23490
[17:54:06] --elephant--	https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=23490
[17:55:04] *RoanKattouw 	calls bug 22877: dialogs add stuff on top in IE
[17:57:16] <Otourly>	cary: how could shunt the licence verification ? It blocks me
[17:58:10] <cary>	Otourly, I had to put in {{copyright by Wikimedia}} as well as fool it on author and date.
[17:58:32] <Otourly>	cary; It blocks
[17:58:39] <Otourly>	I have put it
[18:01:30] <Otourly>	cary: "You must give the original source of  the file, the author of the work, and a license."
[18:01:54] <cary>	copy this: {{Information
[18:01:54] <cary>	|Description=Wikipedia logo 2.0
[18:01:54] <cary>	|Source=Wikimedia Foundation
[18:01:54] <cary>	|Date= n/a
[18:01:54] <cary>	|Author= Wikimedia Foundation
[18:01:55] <cary>	|Permission={{copyright by Wikimedia}}
[18:01:57] <cary>	|other_versions=
[18:01:59] <cary>	}}
[18:02:50] <Otourly>	cary: I need the former upload system also
[18:02:59] <Otourly>	http://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Upload&uselang=en
[18:04:14] <Otourly>	ah allright
[18:04:16] <Otourly>	I found it
[18:04:55] <RoanKattouw>	bug 22877 closed: could not reproduce
[18:05:22] <RoanKattouw>	Moving on to bug 23475 cause I was halfway that one anyway
[18:08:05] <Otourly>	RoanKattouw: could you have a look on the bug about linux libertine font ?
[18:08:36] <RoanKattouw>	You mean installing it on the cluster?
[18:08:46] <RoanKattouw>	I can't do that because I'm not a root. But I'll poke Ariel about it
[18:08:52] <RoanKattouw>	Do you need this like today?
[18:09:06] <Otourly>	RoanKattouw: tomorrow ?
[18:09:06] <nkomura>	RoanKattouw: ariel is out today
[18:09:38] <RoanKattouw>	Bleh
[18:09:43] <RoanKattouw>	But if it can happen tomorrow that's fine too
[18:09:57] <RoanKattouw>	Otourly: Send an e-mail to atglenn@wikimedia.org
[18:10:17] <cary>	RoanKattouw, could you do it yesterday?
[18:10:27] <Otourly>	I'm working on svg logos :s
[18:11:16] <RoanKattouw>	cary: Only if you're prepared to teleport to Vladivostok
[18:14:08] <Otourly>	cary: it's curious the libertine font don't have the same rendering on Inkscape that on ai...
[18:14:32] <cary>	I blame that on AI
[18:14:57] <TrevorParscal>	RoanKattouw: I want to use one message within another... what's the syntax?
[18:15:16] <RoanKattouw>	{{int:messagekey}}
[18:20:14] <cary>	Otourly, I would not be surprised if things rendered different on AI for Windows as it does on a Mac
[18:23:46] <Otourly>	:P
[18:23:54] <Otourly>	http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Wikipedia-logo-v2-oc.svg
[18:25:18] <hannes-_->	hey guys, cary Otourly
[18:25:30] <Otourly>	yep ?
[18:25:35] <hannes-_->	I am sorry to say, but....you are not really sticking to our guidelines
[18:25:45] <Otourly>	?
[18:25:47] <hannes-_->	did you read them?
[18:26:01] <Otourly>	I read them
[18:26:09] <Otourly>	what do you mean ?
[18:26:26] <hannes-_->	tagline and wordmark should be at the same width
[18:26:36] <hannes-_->	for http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Wikipedia-logo-v2-oc.svg
[18:27:19] <hannes-_->	and for http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Wikipedia-logo-v2-zh.svg : the typo cannot be less wide than the globe
[18:28:01] <hannes-_->	swedish is cool, though
[18:28:31] <hannes-_->	http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Wikipedia-logo-v2-pcd.svg this is wrong, too
[18:28:36] <Otourly>	well hannes-_-ja too ?
[18:29:04] <hannes-_->	no, ja is an exception
[18:29:13] <Otourly>	ok
[18:29:51] <hannes-_->	if you cannot make the tagline fit the width of the wordmark with letterspacing of less than 50
[18:30:01] <hannes-_->	than you can center it, and leave it shorter
[18:30:20] <cary>	hannes-_-, there's no way to get chinese anything but less wide
[18:30:33] <cary>	It doesn't look right any other way
[18:30:38] <hannes-_->	cary: just use more letter spacing
[18:31:11] <hannes-_->	we don't need much.... looks like 20px would do it
[18:32:50] <RoanKattouw>	Giving up on the indented textarea, moving on to bug 23485
[18:33:44] <cary>	12 actually
[18:33:51] <cary>	first character 6px to the left
[18:38:20] *nkomura 	is going to the dark side.  rebooting my computer with Window.  
[18:40:41] <hannes-_->	looks good cary
[18:40:48] <cary>	except
[18:40:59] <cary>	I have to switch to traditional characters :)
[18:45:24] <Otourly>	cary hannes-_- please add [[Category:Wikipedia_logos_v2]] on your file cause a bot is tag all the logos :P
[18:45:30] <Otourly>	tagging
[18:45:44] <cary>	okay
[18:45:52] <cary>	I think hannes-_- is done uploading
[18:47:57] <cary>	hannes-_-, http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Wikipedia-logo-v2-zh.svg
[18:48:02] <cary>	that text is wider than the globe.
[18:48:04] <cary>	*sigh*
[18:52:31] <cary>	ah!  I figured out how to set letter-spacing in inksape
[18:52:45] <cary>	you have to do it in the XML editor
[18:52:58] <cary>	but "letter-spacing:1.1" etc.
[18:53:23] <Otourly>	ah
[18:53:35] <vvv>	Why "Learn more" link is with arrow?
[18:53:49] <vvv>	Arrow implies expansion in GNOME and Vector interfaces
[18:53:58] <vvv>	It made me feel extremely confusing
[18:54:02] *cary 	dances.
[18:57:02] <Otourly>	cary: it don't really works
[18:57:19] <RoanKattouw>	TrevorParscal: Can I use IHateIE as a variable name?
[18:57:25] <Otourly>	I can't redefine spacing after put letter-spacing:1.1
[18:57:37] <TrevorParscal>	RoanKattouw: sounds perfectly reasonable to me
[18:57:52] <RoanKattouw>	Wait until you see what it's for
[18:57:52] <TrevorParscal>	vvv: fair enough point...
[18:58:34] <cary>	Otourly, "letter-spacing" is space *between* letters
[18:58:43] <TrevorParscal>	anyone else feel like http://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:NoticeTemplate/view&template=VectorNewLook would be better without the arrow next to learn more? perhaps a different icon, or no icon at all... ?
[18:58:52] <cary>	I used letter-spacing:0.2; for norge
[18:58:54] <Otourly>	cary Yep its works once
[18:58:54] <cary>	in the style
[18:59:35] <TrevorParscal>	without the icon, the banner looks a little less exciting, but there's a fair point of abusing the analogy
[19:01:02] <cary>	ARGH, no is going to do the exact same thing to me.
[19:04:06] <cary>	I want to know why this SVG is breaking the thumbnailer.
[19:19:33] <TrevorParscal>	vvv: the arrow is dead - thanks for poking :) it may take up to 30 minutes for the site to show the change
[19:20:37] <vvv>	TrevorParscal: it's CentralNotice, right?
[19:20:43] <TrevorParscal>	yes
[19:20:54] <TrevorParscal>	http://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:NoticeTemplate/view&template=VectorNewLook
[19:21:09] *vvv 	finds use of CetnralNotice for enwiki local notice funny
[19:22:15] <guillom>	please let's not have this discussion again :)
[19:22:27] <TrevorParscal>	why is this such a big deal to people?
[19:29:20] <TrevorParscal>	RoanKattouw: i have an incredibly simple fix to the ie right click bug that will have a bunch of complex changes to follow
[19:29:42] <RoanKattouw>	OK
[19:29:43] <cary>	God, each of these logos is taking too long
[19:29:50] <RoanKattouw>	I'm on the brink of committing a fix for two IE bugs myself
[19:30:01] <Otourly>	cary sure...
[19:30:29] <TrevorParscal>	<li><a><span>Text</span></a></li> - becomes - <li><span><a>Text</a></span></li>
[19:30:48] <TrevorParscal>	you can see how this will have lots of changes to follow I'm sure
[19:31:44] <cary>	Bah, stupid W-free Catalan
[19:31:44] <RoanKattouw>	Well CSS selectors will be wrong for one thing
[19:32:02] <TrevorParscal>	well, that's part of my fix
[19:32:14] <TrevorParscal>	but the code that handles adding things to the menu
[19:32:18] <RoanKattouw>	:)
[19:32:19] <TrevorParscal>	including the collapsible tabs
[19:32:22] <TrevorParscal>	will break
[19:32:22] <RoanKattouw>	Yes
[19:32:32] <RoanKattouw>	Including site JS on commons
[19:33:33] <TrevorParscal>	yes
[19:33:44] <TrevorParscal>	so - we think this is worth it though.. yes?
[19:34:23] <hannes-_->	cary: how is going? any new logos?
[19:34:58] <RoanKattouw>	TrevorParscal: I'm leaving that up to you
[19:35:33] <TrevorParscal>	:|
[19:36:04] <cary>	sv, zh and no
[19:36:06] *RoanKattouw 	passes the buck
[19:36:06] <cary>	I'm working on Catalan
[19:36:20] <cary>	which is Viquip�dia instead
[19:36:32] <cary>	Just to be silly and different.
[19:36:38] <cary>	Because Catalan hates W's
[19:37:41] <cary>	hannes-_-: http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Talk:Wikimedia_official_marks/Word_mark_creation
[19:37:52] <cary>	this is just silly.  Most people can't post there... :)
[19:38:02] <hannes-_->	lol
[19:38:04] <hannes-_->	true
[19:40:18] <hannes-_->	hmm
[19:40:31] <hannes-_->	whats this thumbnail problem about?
[19:40:49] <hannes-_->	how can I solve that?
[19:44:12] <cary>	I've fixed mine
[19:44:26] <hannes-_->	how?
[19:45:11] <cary>	http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Wikipedia-logo-v2-ca.svg  (worked first time!)
[19:45:18] <cary>	I saved as plain SVG from inkscape
[19:45:52] <cary>	then I re-inserted the grid lines and resaved as Inkscape SVG
[19:48:11] <hannes-_->	I wanted to suggest a small change to the zh logo
[19:48:17] <Otourly>	mouarf: http://als.wikipedia.org/wiki/Houptsyte
[19:48:42] <hannes-_->	Otourly beautiful
[19:50:16] <cary>	hannes-_-, make it yourself :)  I'm through with the zh logo
[19:50:49] <hannes-_->	http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Wikipedia-logo-v2-ca.svg some more letterspacing for the tagline to make it fit. see how the wordmar is slightly wider than the tagline?
[19:52:06] <RoanKattouw>	TrevorParscal: I have fixed the bugs where IE doesn't take selected text into account (bug 23475 and bug 23061)
[19:52:56] <TrevorParscal>	RoanKattouw: I'm stalling out on my link thing
[19:53:08] <cary>	hannes-_-, honestly, we won't be able to get all the taglines spaced all the way
[19:53:10] <TrevorParscal>	the way the watch icon is done is by hiding the span within the a
[19:53:14] <cary>	some of them are very short and some are long
[19:53:27] <cary>	Catalan's actually looks strange if you space it out more.
[19:53:33] <TrevorParscal>	if I swap them around, I end up with just a span visible, which doesn't have the clickable action of the a
[19:53:46] <TrevorParscal>	if I assign the click handler to the span, it's not keyboard accessible
[19:54:00] <TrevorParscal>	if I assign a tabindex to it, which index should I use..?
[19:54:04] <TrevorParscal>	i hate this so far
[19:54:09] <RoanKattouw>	Use my tabindex function :)
[19:54:16] *cary 	starts on Finland
[19:54:16] <RoanKattouw>	Hmmm
[19:54:37] <RoanKattouw>	So, why do you need to hide the span in the a again?
[19:54:52] <TrevorParscal>	to hids the "Watch" and "Unwatch" text in the link
[19:55:19] <RoanKattouw>	Any reason we can't simply have multiple watch/unwatch links
[19:55:22] <RoanKattouw>	?
[19:56:09] <TrevorParscal>	um
[19:56:14] <TrevorParscal>	thats no good
[19:56:44] <hannes-_->	cary: it is only one click! why shouldn t we be able to do that?
[19:57:29] <cary>	The english logo isn't even exact.
[19:57:37] <hannes-_->	sure it it
[19:57:39] <hannes-_->	it is
[19:57:55] <TrevorParscal>	?
[19:57:58] <hannes-_->	it s viually correct. not mathermatical...if that s what you mean
[19:58:00] <TrevorParscal>	what's wrong with the logo?
[19:58:01] <cary>	xposition for Wikipedia is 8.164
[19:58:11] <cary>	for the tagline it's 9.486
[19:58:20] <hannes-_->	[21:58] hannes-_-: it s viually correct. not mathermatical...if that s what you mean
[19:58:21] <cary>	it's 1.3 pixels off
[19:58:48] <TrevorParscal>	are you both using the same software and fonts?
[19:59:10] <hannes-_->	no we dont
[19:59:37] <hannes-_->	that s why it is easy for me to make it full width - and not that easy for cary
[20:00:01] <Otourly>	well I think for description that we should use a template, like this, all descriptions will be translated...
[20:00:42] <Otourly>	something like {{logo wikipedia description|code=en}}
[20:02:18] <cary>	I'm using Inkscape, which is what our volunteers will be using.
[20:03:35] <TrevorParscal>	hannes-_-: text in SVG files is not very reliable
[20:03:53] <TrevorParscal>	you must be using the same exact fonts and software if you want predictable results
[20:04:26] <cary>	TrevorParscal, you are only talking about the Renderer
[20:04:42] <TrevorParscal>	no
[20:05:06] <cary>	We are, of course, using the exact same fonts
[20:05:26] <hannes-_->	I know.....sigh...it would have been the best if I would have used inkscape. BUT if you give me 3 days to finish the logo I cannot learn a new software first!!
[20:05:33] <TrevorParscal>	typography layout is extremely complex, and variations between software packages such as Adobe Illustrator and Inkscape make significant differences
[20:05:53] <TrevorParscal>	Inkscape supports a small fraction of the typography settings that Illustrator does
[20:06:09] <guillom>	what would have been the best is to not localize the logo at all *rumble* *rumble* ok, it'll be the last time I say it
[20:06:12] <hannes-_->	but anyway... the length of a textfield should be adjustable in illustrator as much as in inkscape
[20:06:12] <TrevorParscal>	and you can also say that, replacing Inkscape with SVG
[20:06:28] <TrevorParscal>	when Illustrator writes to SVG, it's no garantee it's sane or reliable
[20:06:34] <TrevorParscal>	when opened in something else
[20:06:45] <TrevorParscal>	they do strange things that cause compatability issues
[20:06:57] <TrevorParscal>	they are adobe, they pretend nothing else exists
[20:06:59] <cary>	it's program specific XML
[20:07:01] <TrevorParscal>	so this is normal
[20:07:04] <hannes-_->	well...acutallay that s not too bad
[20:07:10] <hannes-_->	that s not the problem we have right now
[20:07:26] <TrevorParscal>	what problem do you have?
[20:07:43] <cary>	That I'm suggesting that full justification is ugly when the text is too short or too long.
[20:07:48] <TrevorParscal>	you wrote an SVG in illustrator, he opened it in Inkscape, it doesn't look the same?
[20:08:01] <Otourly>	long long long !
[20:08:04] <cary>	anyway: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Wikipedia-logo-v2-fi.png
[20:08:30] <TrevorParscal>	gosh that logo is still really dark
[20:08:31] <cary>	I wonder if I should save the Cyrillic ones for enhydra
[20:08:40] <TrevorParscal>	did you work on that hannes?
[20:09:07] <TrevorParscal>	cary: typically the solution to that sort of thing is to reduce the kerning
[20:09:17] <TrevorParscal>	in Inkscape, it's a PITA to do
[20:09:20] <TrevorParscal>	but it can be done
[20:09:20] *cary 	rolls his eyes
[20:11:17] <enhydra>	excuse me, but...
[20:11:23] <enhydra>	what did you do to the globe?
[20:11:29] <hannes-_->	hahaha
[20:11:35] <Otourly>	lol
[20:11:47] <Otourly>	enhydra: could you acces to collab ?
[20:12:54] <enhydra>	Otourly, I don’t have an account there
[20:13:03] <cary>	the globe has all the proper characters now
[20:13:09] <Otourly>	ok
[20:13:22] <Otourly>	enhydra: I will help you
[20:13:29] <cary>	oh, crap.  Ukranian is a "У" logo, not a "B" logo
[20:13:58] <cary>	oh, never mind
[20:13:59] <enhydra>	cary, perhaps you confuse it with Bulgarian...
[20:14:02] <cary>	I'm looking at the wrong thing.
[20:14:11] <cary>	I'm looking at "Українська"
[20:14:12] <cary>	heh
[20:14:17] *cary 	slaps self
[20:14:32] <cary>	moving on to Csesky
[20:14:42] <enhydra>	formally speaking, Україна === Вкраїна
[20:14:57] <cary>	lol
[20:15:00] <enhydra>	but the latter form is rarely used
[20:15:16] <Otourly>	enhydra: see this page: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Otourly/versus
[20:23:58] <enhydra>	Otourly, so what?
[20:24:20] <Otourly>	enhydra: you could compare the new logo with old one
[20:25:00] <enhydra>	even first Nohat’s sketches looked more balanced
[20:27:26] <RoanKattouw>	TrevorParscal: I'm going to bed soon. I need you to put together a list of revs to deploy by 9:30pm PT, so I can deploy them
[20:27:48] <RoanKattouw>	TrevorParscal: Also, please look at https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=23438 and decide to put it on the list or not
[20:28:12] <TrevorParscal>	i will look
[20:29:03] <TrevorParscal>	ok - so we are deploying on May 13th 5am UTC
[20:29:05] <Otourly>	enhydra: well I think it is adapted for vector as well isn't it cary ?
[20:29:32] <TrevorParscal>	that's in like... less than 12 hours from now...
[20:29:46] <cary>	it is.
[20:29:49] <TrevorParscal>	It is?
[20:30:00] <TrevorParscal>	I don't think there was any connection in the design process at all
[20:30:56] <RoanKattouw>	Yes
[20:31:00] <RoanKattouw>	That's 10pm PDT
[20:31:53] <cary>	whatever.
[20:31:59] *cary 	is almost done with Czech
[20:32:12] <TrevorParscal>	RoanKattouw: could I get some help with collecting revs?
[20:32:17] <RoanKattouw>	You can
[20:32:32] *RoanKattouw 	starts Etherpad
[20:33:12] <RoanKattouw>	http://eiximenis.wikimedia.org/VectorFixes0512
[20:35:02] <TrevorParscal>	so, how do I know what's already been merged?
[20:35:19] <enhydra>	well, where can I say my “strong oppose” to this image of the Wikipedia globe?
[20:35:20] <cary>	http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Wikipedia-logo-v2-cs.png
[20:35:58] <cary>	Wait until it's been released officially
[20:36:27] <Otourly>	enhydra: you could also use the old one with a css code
[20:36:40] <RoanKattouw>	TrevorParscal: Look at the rev in CodeReview and scroll to the bottom, related revs will include an MFT rev
[20:36:55] <TrevorParscal>	k
[20:37:12] <enhydra>	cary, I don’t want us to be a laughingstock :(
[20:37:42] <cary>	enhydra, it's going to be released like this
[20:38:01] <enhydra>	like “this”?
[20:38:13] <cary>	The globe.  It's already been approved and finalized.
[20:38:56] <Otourly>	enhydra: did you try to see both of them on the vector skin ?
[20:39:18] <cary>	Magyar is next
[20:39:26] <cary>	This should be fun
[20:39:47] <cary>	Ah, it's the same as French, with le accent egu
[20:41:54] <enhydra>	Otourly, Vector skin doesn’t make the old one any worse and this one any better
[20:42:40] <guillom>	cary: so now the official name of the French Wikipedia is Wikipédia ?
[20:43:21] <cary>	guillom, moi, je ne sais pas
[20:43:27] <cary>	I'm only a cog in the wheel
[20:43:58] <Otourly>	enhydra: do the comparative, the new logo need some balance...
[20:44:09] <guillom>	I'm asking, because I need to know if we're translating everything; i.e. does Wikibooks become Wikilivres, etc.
[20:44:57] <enhydra>	Otourly, it is unbalanced in its own, and nothing can help it
[20:45:36] <Otourly>	guillom: ça toujours été comme ça, il faudrait que la foundation se décide une fois pour toute, que ce soit pour fr, ja, hi, ru, zh e tutti quanti ;)
[20:45:55] <nkomura>	back
[20:46:04] <guillom>	Otourly: ben justement, apparemment la fondation prend le chemin inverse, c'est à dire tout traduire et tout localiser
[20:46:06] <TrevorParscal>	RoanKattouw: we're pretty much there I think...
[20:46:13] <guillom>	donc je voudrais savoir ce qu'il en est officiellement
[20:46:55] <TrevorParscal>	our channel has been hijacked by french people
[20:47:08] <RoanKattouw>	Well we're still missing some bugfixes
[20:47:14] <RoanKattouw>	As in, haven't written them yet
[20:47:22] <TrevorParscal>	ha ha
[20:47:59] <RoanKattouw>	Most severe one seems to be https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=22878
[20:48:42] <RoanKattouw>	Bleh
[20:48:43] <RoanKattouw>	https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=23492
[20:49:04] <TrevorParscal>	i'm going to work on that one
[20:49:11] <TrevorParscal>	the prior one after that
[20:49:11] <RoanKattouw>	TrevorParscal: Did your changes to the suggestion plugin break that maybe?
[20:49:17] <TrevorParscal>	probably
[20:49:20] <RoanKattouw>	Hell yeah I ain't wokring on anything
[20:49:24] <TrevorParscal>	but I'm really familiar with it
[20:49:31] <RoanKattouw>	It's almost 11pm and I should get up at 6:30
[20:49:38] <TrevorParscal>	k
[20:49:40] <TrevorParscal>	go to bed then
[20:50:02] <TrevorParscal>	adam_miller: are you working on anything that should be deployed tonight?
[20:50:35] <adam_miller>	TrevorParscal: no nothing that needs to go
[20:51:25] <TrevorParscal>	k
[20:51:39] <TrevorParscal>	adam_miller: would you be able to take https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=23492
[20:51:45] <TrevorParscal>	it should be simple
[20:52:11] <adam_miller>	sure
[20:53:49] <RoanKattouw>	TrevorParscal: Please tag the revs in that Etherpad with (UNREVIEWED) where appropriate some time before tonight
[20:54:17] <TrevorParscal>	are there any?
[20:54:17] <cary>	Otourly, did you do hu already?
[20:54:38] <TrevorParscal>	all the ones I added were marked OK
[20:54:38] <cary>	we need to plan this better
[20:54:44] <Otourly>	yep ?
[20:54:45] <RoanKattouw>	OK well
[20:54:50] <RoanKattouw>	When you fix more stuff, add it :P
[20:54:55] <TrevorParscal>	for sure!
[20:55:02] <Otourly>	cary ah zut
[20:55:06] *cary 	does the PNG
[20:55:08] <cary>	well
[20:55:26] <Otourly>	Cary but I'll sleep really soon
[20:55:32] <RoanKattouw>	TrevorParscal: And review my revs :)
[20:55:49] *enhydra 	can’t find any traces of community discussing this image of Wikipedia globe
[20:56:16] <Otourly>	enhydra: look upper
[20:56:43] <nkomura>	eight more new logos!
[20:56:49] <Otourly>	enhydra: there a lot of pages about
[20:57:11] <nkomura>	cary and Otourly are being productive
[20:57:23] <Otourly>	I have stop search earlier than 2006
[20:58:21] <nkomura>	i'm going for a quick walk/break
[20:58:25] <Otourly>	enhydra: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia/Logo + talk page + talk on en.wp
[20:58:28] <cary>	I need to take a break too
[20:58:33] <cary>	I've picked a Korean font
[20:58:36] <Otourly>	I need to sleep
[20:59:08] <nkomura_awy>	i was going to ask cary if he wants to go for a walk with me
[20:59:18] <nkomura_awy>	but realized he is not in the office today
[20:59:22] <cary>	nkomura_awy, that would be difficult
[20:59:24] <Otourly>	my head will explode
[20:59:26] <cary>	I will walk with you tomorrow
[20:59:35] <nkomura_awy>	sounds like a good plan :-)
[20:59:51] <enhydra>	Otourly, they discuss characters, not the rendering
[21:02:03] <howief>	fyi, another link dialog bug found on prototype: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=23493
[21:02:16] <Otourly>	enhydra: do you use vector on wp.en ?
[21:02:55] <enhydra>	Otourly, no
[21:03:16] <Otourly>	enhydra: please set your skin on vector one
[21:03:19] <enhydra>	Otourly, when I “useskin” to it, I don’t see anything bad with the globe except perhaps its size (but that’s just my setup)
[21:03:32] <cary>	http://cooltext.com/Download-Font-%EC%9D%80+%EB%B0%94%ED%83%95+Un+Batang
[21:03:35] <cary>	what do you all think?
[21:03:56] <Otourly>	enhydra: then on your /vector.css subpage
[21:04:01] <Otourly>	put :
[21:04:02] <Otourly>	#p-logo a { background-image:url(http://collab.wikimedia.org/w/img_auth.php/5/5f/Svg_png90dpi_psauf72.png)!important; }
[21:04:16] <cary>	Otourly, "collab wiki"
[21:04:26] <enhydra>	Otourly, that gives 403 to me
[21:04:34] <Otourly>	wait
[21:04:35] <enhydra>	Otourly, also, I can do such changes in Firebug
[21:05:05] <Otourly>	#p-logo a {
[21:05:05] <Otourly>	background-image:url(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d6/Wikipedia-logo-v2-en.png)!important;
[21:05:05] <Otourly>	}
[21:07:44] <enhydra>	Otourly, I see this png instead of the logo, now what?
[21:08:24] <cary>	Inkscape crashed
[21:08:40] <Otourly>	enhydra: with vector ?
[21:09:04] <Otourly>	enhydra: it looks better tha the old one on vector I really think
[21:09:20] <TrevorParscal>	howief: resolved now
[21:09:30] <howief>	that was fast
[21:09:37] <enhydra>	Otourly, it is very messed up itself, and it doesn’t matter what environment it is in
[21:10:12] <enhydra>	Otourly, as I could see, you have previously created a good vector version
[21:10:41] <Otourly>	enhydra: there are errors on it
[21:10:58] <Otourly>	caracters errors
[21:11:08] <enhydra>	Otourly, but they could be fixed, couldn’t they?
[21:11:15] <Otourly>	I prefer the 3D-like one
[21:11:26] <Otourly>	enhydra: it could be, shure
[21:11:29] <Otourly>	sure
[21:11:48] *TrevorParscal 	suggests #wikipedia-new-logo
[21:12:39] <enhydra>	TrevorParscal, if this picture is going to be set as wiki.png, the channel should have lots of visitors
[21:12:47] <Otourly>	I fall asleep then
[21:12:53] <Otourly>	have a good night
[21:13:01] <enhydra>	Otourly, same to you!
[21:13:39] <TrevorParscal>	adam_miller: could you cross review some stuff for me?
[21:13:41] <TrevorParscal>	http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:Code/MediaWiki/author/tparscal
[21:18:23] <enhydra>	however, the origin of this rendering is still unclear to me :(
[21:20:16] <cary>	clearly
[21:20:58] <enhydra>	cary, perhaps you could shed some light on it?
[21:21:19] <cary>	on what?
[21:21:36] <enhydra>	on how and when it was finalized and approved?
[21:22:31] <cary>	That was done in-house
[21:23:13] <enhydra>	such things should be discussed with the community or at least be announced, shouldn’t they?
[21:23:36] <cary>	It's going to be announced.
[21:24:08] <cary>	http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia/Logo goes back over a year
[21:24:15] <enhydra>	do you mean “announced” or “go live along with Vector”?
[21:26:04] <cary>	The logo update has been in the planning stages for well over a year.
[21:26:11] <cary>	I made an announcement about that back then.
[21:26:29] <cary>	The timing for the logo rollout coincided with the Vector rollout.
[21:26:35] <cary>	so they're doing it at the same time.
[21:27:03] <adam_miller>	TrevorParscal: just need those two most recent revisions checked?
[21:27:29] <TrevorParscal>	yes
[21:27:37] <TrevorParscal>	a 2nd set of eyes is good :)
[21:28:18] <enhydra>	cary, they didn’t say it would be a giant step backward...
[21:29:40] <adam_miller>	TrevorParscal -  can i pretend I'm roan and yell at you for not putting spaces inside of your parentheses?
[21:30:07] <cary>	enhydra, I'm not sure everyone agrees with you.
[21:30:57] <enhydra>	cary, I’m not sure too, and this is what public discussions are for
[21:31:44] <cary>	http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Wikipedia-logo-v2-ko.png
[21:31:58] <cary>	enhydra, it's also one of the things the Foundation is specifically responsible for
[21:32:04] <cary>	the management of the trademarks
[21:34:32] <cary>	I'm really confused.  Hannes insisted the Chinese logo be even...but the JApanese one isn't.
[21:35:56] <enhydra>	anyway, my prediction is that some days after the new logo is out will be the days of shame, and this will negatively affect general public’s impression about Vector
[21:36:31] <cary>	You hate the new logo.  I get it.
[21:42:34] <enhydra>	let’s just see.
[21:44:48] <cary>	that's the idea!
[21:45:13] <cary>	So I guess you're not helping with localizing :(
[21:45:36] <adam_miller>	TrevorParscal: addressed bug 23492 in r66307
[21:50:38] <TrevorParscal>	testing
[21:51:29] <enhydra>	cary, I can help, as that’d be still easy to put the old logo back with new labels
[21:51:38] <TrevorParscal>	adam_miller: looks good!
[21:51:52] <TrevorParscal>	feel free to close https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=23492
[21:52:03] <enhydra>	however, my current RL load forces me to be rather inactive :(
[21:52:05] <TrevorParscal>	don't forget to mention r66307 :)
[21:54:10] <TrevorParscal>	adam_miller: btw: http://eiximenis.wikimedia.org/VectorFixes0512
[22:05:41] <TrevorParscal>	adam_miller: btw - yes you can yell at me about spaces in parenthesis anytime!
[23:09:00] <{cary|logos}>	http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Wikipedia-logo-v2-uk.png done
[23:10:50] <{cary|logos}>	Esperanto is noext
[23:10:52] <{cary|logos}>	next
[23:14:15] <howief>	TrevorParscal: i can't seem to get simplified search to work on the search results page
[23:17:38] <TrevorParscal>	it's some js error
[23:17:39] <TrevorParscal>	lookin
[23:26:04] <{cary|logos}>	eo and da done
[23:29:57] <thedj>	oh, switch day tomorrow right ?
[23:32:01] <nkomura>	7am today your time, thedj
[23:39:23] <{cary|logos}>	http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Wikipedia-logo-v2-ar.png
[23:44:55] <thedj>	nkomura: that translates as "when Roan wakes up" :D
[23:45:17] <nkomura>	he is waking up at 6:30am this morning
[23:45:27] <nkomura>	hopefully he will make it ;)