[00:01:26] <{cary|afk}> Interesting talk on the Arabic page [00:26:30] nkomura: new ref toolbar enabled [00:27:14] yay! [00:27:21] i missed it [00:27:35] k I'll see you guys at Trevor's place a little after 9 [00:27:37] will it work for both the old and the new toolbar? [00:27:52] see you pdhanda! [00:28:10] nkomura: yup, loads old version for people who disable everything, loads vector compatible version for IE users, and uses dialog version for all the others. [00:28:35] that's great! [00:41:05] <{cary|afk}> Trevor's place? [00:41:28] yeah, we decided to be at one place for the deployment [00:41:35] trevor is kindly offering his place [00:41:41] ;) [01:03:57] <{cary|afk}> Vietnamese and Serbian uploaded [01:04:10] congrats! [01:04:39] <{cary|afk}> I'm just gonna do Hebrew now because it's special [01:04:40] {cary|afk}: you can slow down as we still have time for rolling out logos for non-English [01:05:01] you have been non-stop all day today [01:05:08] i'm going offline now [01:05:12] <{cary|afk}> okay [01:05:20] ciao [01:05:27] <{cary|afk}> Yeah, the Arabic script question is ongoing [01:06:56] good luck [04:41:38] RoanKattouw: you up yet? [04:41:44] Yes [04:41:47] good morning [04:41:52] we're having a launch party [04:41:56] Yay [04:42:05] Where at? [04:42:05] Howie, Priyanka, Naoko are at my house [04:42:10] Michael is on his way [04:42:13] ya'll try not to break the wiki, 'kay? I don't want us to have to start this thing over again. [04:42:48] and if it goes well, i'll buy a round of drinks this weekend or sumpin :) [04:43:04] *RoanKattouw grabs breakfast [04:43:21] we're just setting up at the kitchen table [04:44:48] we have cream puffs, strawberries and cocacola [04:45:05] stroopwafel? [04:45:43] hmmm - none of those... [04:45:52] sadness. [04:46:03] i had a stroopwafel smothered in nutella the other day though... that was really good... [04:46:41] *guillom is going to bed; have fun breaking the site [04:46:48] *night [04:49:20] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ej3Szj6WcCY [04:50:49] http://eiximenis.wikimedia.org/VectorFixes0512 [04:50:51] TrevorParscal: WANT. Tomasz and I agreed to both bring a component of that to Gdansk [04:54:47] can we review the bug fixes on the prototype? [04:54:55] hi mdale [04:55:04] hi nkomura [04:55:13] *RoanKattouw updates prototype [04:59:45] hi mdale [04:59:55] hello [05:01:29] let's test [05:01:30] http://prototype.wikimedia.org/en.wikipedia.org/Main_Page [05:03:56] nkomura: on that page context is not defined on context.fn.restoreStuffForIE(); line 1515 after clicking reference then clicking "cancel" [05:04:18] Ah [05:04:28] TrevorParscal fixed that for the link dialog only then [05:04:36] *RoanKattouw apologizes for causing that bug in the first place [05:04:37] yay [05:04:58] RoanKattouw: oh, that copy-paste mistake of yours lives on elsewhere? [05:05:07] Yeah, there were two instances, you fixed one [05:05:15] do you want to grab the 2nd one? [05:06:41] Sure [05:09:36] so i see a bug on IE8… if you click halfway through the edit text area and then try and then click on "Embed a file" button from the toolbar, it always inserts it on the top of the text area [05:09:58] I thought I'd fixed that [05:10:40] wait.. i was not logged in [05:10:47] so i am seeing the iframe [05:10:57] wait let me log in and turn off the iframe [05:11:03] Non-logged in users see the iframe by default on prototype? [05:11:07] That doesn't sound good [05:11:17] yeah [05:12:58] RoanKattouw: yeah, I'm seeing the toc but not template collapsing as anon [05:13:43] TrevorParscal: Any objections to just merging UsabilityInitiative to trunk state? This merge looks like it'll get messy [05:13:45] i'm going to investigate [05:13:54] i do not object [05:14:09] as per the list I was making, that's essentially what we were building piece by piece [05:14:20] Yes [05:14:21] lets do that, and then update the deployment prototype [05:15:20] is there the exact time scheduled? [05:15:52] TrevorParscal: No need to update the deployment prototype, it already runs trunk UI [05:15:58] RoanKattouw: PrototypeSettings had $wgDefaultUserOptions['usenavigabletoc'] = 1; [05:16:02] i just commented it out [05:16:11] OK [05:16:29] enhydra: sometime between now and later :P [05:18:47] so, I have some more time to think on [[m:Petition to Jimbo]]-like page about the logo [05:20:22] RoanKattouw: did you see the new section loading spinner stuff? [05:20:46] Yes, I saw the rev [05:20:50] Didn't see it in action [05:21:19] any other bugs we need to verify? [05:26:05] oops [05:26:20] I left my browser running on a page retrieving the list of all cached objects inside a single squid [05:26:30] after 10 mins found that firefox is completely unresponsive ;) [05:26:34] haha [05:27:08] hahaha [05:27:13] OK, merges done, shall I push to test? [05:28:36] everything is looking good [05:28:43] let's push to test.wikipedia.org [05:30:47] Done [05:32:45] and the config? [05:33:06] vector and the toolbar as default [05:33:12] and dialogs [05:33:26] and turn collapsible navigation and simple search on [05:33:44] unleash the code! [05:33:54] muwahahaha [05:34:33] ^5 [05:34:52] hi Philippe! [05:34:57] hi five! [05:35:20] TrevorParscal: Will do config, gimme a sec [05:35:25] For what it matters, ya'll, my ex - who is computer "challenged" - thinks vector rocks. [05:35:45] Whee [05:38:05] TrevorParscal: Config done [05:38:38] yay! [05:38:55] beautiful [05:39:56] RoanKattouw: we need to purge the cache for test [05:39:56] Can someone point me to the new enwiki logo please? [05:40:02] we're getting mixed skins - of course [05:40:08] as anon users - of course [05:40:22] TrevorParscal: You can't "purge the cache for test", it doesn't work that way [05:40:28] Append ?foo=bar or some such to your URLs [05:40:45] see, this is why we need you Roan [05:41:49] yay for developers who think like operations people [05:42:38] Philippe: Where's the new enwiki logo at? [05:42:50] Just a sec, lemme find it :) [05:43:22] mark: When Philippe finds the logo, shall we test the logo switch on testwiki? [05:43:32] yeah [05:43:39] ok - so with the PrefStats stuff, we need to also make sure we are capturing the number of people opting out [05:43:43] aka, skin=monobook [05:43:49] table sorting is not inserted [05:43:56] i'm going to check back prototype [05:43:57] http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Wikimedia_official_marks [05:43:57] http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/foundation/2/20/Wikipedia-logo-v2-en_SVG.svg [05:44:39] Philippe: PNG version? [05:44:59] checking :) [05:45:07] that wasn't my thing but I think i know where [05:45:14] http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Wikipedia-logo-v2-en.png [05:45:45] my bad, i was in preview [05:46:18] RoanKattouw: will that work for you? [05:46:33] Philippe: The logo is no longer square (135x155 instead of 135x135), is that intended? [05:46:52] not sure. do you need me to call Jay? [05:47:37] I like how we do PR before thinking about technical details these days ;-) [05:48:06] and there he is [05:48:08] Philippe: No it's OK [05:48:09] n/m, hanging up the phone [05:48:10] hiya [05:48:15] The Commons logo is also 135x155 [05:48:17] jayansonw: I was just calling you :) [05:48:31] i saw [05:48:32] what's up [05:48:36] hey jay [05:48:54] RoanKattouw says the logo is no longer square... intentional? 135X155 instead of 135X135 [05:49:01] Seems OK though [05:49:03] RoanKattouw: can we get simplesearch enabled on test [05:49:05] The Commons logo is also 135x155 [05:49:10] TrevorParscal: On its way [05:49:12] i have no idea. i don't know w hat the original orientation was [05:49:53] it was never square [05:50:02] it was always taller than wide [05:50:13] i think that's correct [05:51:53] OK, so RoanKattouw, no problem then? [05:52:04] No, it's fine [05:52:08] Sorry about that Jay :) [05:52:14] I -think- it's random that i just started watching this at home... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World's_Toughest_Fixes [05:52:15] np [05:52:26] can someone hit me with a link? is it test.wikipedia.org? [05:52:36] TrevorParscal: SimpleSearch enabled. Will also be enabled on Commons after rollout [05:52:37] Yes [05:52:47] Gonna set up the new enwiki logo on test now [05:52:53] http://test.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page [05:53:27] ty [05:53:28] cool [05:54:14] Logo switch done on test [05:54:22] You may need to be logged in to see it, due to caching [05:56:05] jayansonw: what's your impression on the new logo? [05:56:14] clearly i love it [05:56:23] may i not be alone... but do you mean on the test wiki? [05:57:02] ohhhhh [05:57:05] i see it! [05:57:09] it's working for me... [05:57:18] Yay [05:57:43] nice and punchy on the new background :) [05:57:55] i was worried it might be light, but contrast is good [05:58:31] i think it's a bit too dark actually - but.. it will probably grow on me [05:58:34] it looks a little dark on monobook [05:58:43] i like that [05:58:49] because it's light generally [05:59:06] but tweaking (x270, eek) is an option [06:00:07] OK so [06:00:11] Are we ready to go live? [06:00:21] yes [06:00:39] looking good to me [06:00:42] that's all? [06:00:45] good from here [06:01:05] *RoanKattouw asks nkomura for green light [06:01:08] http://wiki.wikked.net/wiki/Wikimedia_statistics/Daily [06:01:17] we are ready! [06:01:29] OK [06:01:30] mark, can we proceed? [06:01:38] thumbs up [06:01:39] I will be scapping out the software update first [06:02:06] Can I tell folks in the help channels etc that we're starting, or should we wait on that? [06:02:19] they'll find out soon enough, won't they? ;) [06:02:20] We're not starting the switchover itself just yet [06:02:25] Just pushing out software updates now [06:02:41] mark, it's polite to give 'em the old "heads-up" :) [06:02:55] but i'll wait for someone to tell me [06:03:16] mark: Bleh, we really need to fix permissions so running scap as non-root doesn't flood your screen with permission denied errors [06:03:23] Philippe: you can give folks heads-up [06:03:28] Or rewrite scap :) [06:03:32] Thanks, nkomura :) [06:03:34] yeah, rewrite scap [06:03:36] Yeah we're switching soon anyway [06:03:40] any issues I need to fix for you now? [06:04:06] mark: Not really, it's just that scap floods my screen so badly I don't really have a chance of spotting any real errors [06:04:14] So I won't really know how successful my scap is [06:04:22] ok [06:04:39] *mark opens a pack of M&Ms [06:04:41] Software update done [06:05:01] yay! [06:05:08] k [06:07:31] Time to heat up my taco [06:07:31] central notice texft: "Notice something different? We've made a few improvements to Wikipedia. Learn more." [06:07:36] hi stuwest [06:07:42] check out the facebook page updates [06:08:00] *stuwest is like a kid on Christmas morning eager to open presents! [06:08:04] howief: centralnotice? Thought we were going with sitenotice? [06:08:18] hi stuwest! [06:08:23] welcome to the usability channel [06:08:26] :_ [06:08:27] sorry [06:08:29] :) [06:08:33] *Philippe waves at stu :) [06:08:48] thanks. long time listener, first time caller. love the show. [06:09:12] I have now enabled SimpleSearch on all wikis that have Vector as their default skin [06:09:50] the spinner is visible tho [06:10:34] RoanKattouw: kind reminder on collapsible left nav ;) [06:10:53] Ah yes [06:11:00] I think I have that as well [06:12:49] so what now? [06:12:58] shall we then? [06:13:15] Prodego: we are about to switch the default UI of en.wp [06:13:33] can we do that quickly so I can sleep :) [06:13:51] mark, nkomura: I've got the settings change ready to go, waiting for your green light [06:14:06] go ahead [06:14:08] i'm good to proceed [06:14:08] central notice is ready [06:14:19] OK here goes [06:14:35] Trevor: sitenotice? I'm sorry, but want to be sure [06:14:45] no skin! [06:14:46] central notice [06:14:58] I thought we were using sitenotice.... and giving centralnotice back? [06:14:58] http://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:NoticeTemplate/view&template=VectorChanged [06:15:02] Done [06:15:13] Proceeding to update logo [06:15:34] looks good [06:15:37] (clapping) [06:15:39] I mean, I'm in favor of using centralnotice, but thought we had that meeting about it and such..... [06:15:45] let me know when I can start purging pages [06:15:58] probably now, since we're updating the logo in place... [06:16:16] *mark starts dumping squid caches [06:16:28] mark: Yes, now [06:16:30] Go bonkers [06:16:52] that'll take a little while [06:16:57] woo hoo - effect seen [06:16:57] um [06:17:03] we're updating the logo in place> [06:17:04] ? [06:17:06] Yes [06:17:16] we are changing the path [06:17:18] that's crucial [06:17:21] Why? [06:17:24] the path of the logo must change [06:17:30] what for? [06:17:39] when do we see the new logo? [06:17:41] http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Wikipedia-logo-v2-en.png [06:17:47] nkomura: In a minute [06:17:47] for consistent naming [06:17:58] the new logos will all have the same naming [06:18:01] no more Wiki.png [06:18:16] it must point to "http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d6/Wikipedia-logo-v2-en.png" [06:18:24] where were you 30 mins ago [06:18:34] When we discussed exactly this over in the other channel [06:18:39] OK you know what [06:18:46] I'm gonna reupload the new one on top of Wiki.png [06:18:51] Then, when we do the rest of the logo switches [06:18:56] the spinner is not working ... [06:19:02] We change $stdlogo to point to the new naming scheme [06:19:04] nkomura: Where? [06:19:15] that sounds like a good idea [06:19:23] the spinner for sp.ch [06:19:37] TrevorParscal: I thought you fixed the specialchars spinner? [06:19:38] however you want to do it, just letting you know - the plan is to use the new logo path [06:19:48] OK, we will end up doing that eventually [06:19:50] But not today [06:19:57] the SimpleSearch is the older version [06:20:03] so is the toolbar [06:20:26] RoanKattouw: check the 'Take me back' link [06:20:30] i got this error when i tried to "take me bacck" [06:20:31] (SQL query hidden) [06:20:31] from within function "PrefSwitchSurvey::save". Database returned error "1146: Table 'enwiki.prefswitch_survey' doesn't exist (10.0.6.26)". [06:20:40] "Database returned error "1146: Table 'enwiki.prefswitch_survey' doesn't exist (10.0.6.26)"." [06:20:58] Ouch [06:21:03] *RoanKattouw fixes [06:21:32] Prodego: Try again [06:21:48] (and howief) [06:22:01] well I actually was relaying for someone [06:22:10] I used the prefs to change back :P [06:22:31] ahhh, you're one of THOSE PEOPLE [06:22:43] ;) [06:22:47] yeah the take me back works now [06:22:49] I realize there are some fires being fought here, but the logo path thing, why are we not changing it to the new path? [06:22:55] I must have missed the reason [06:22:56] WTF, reupload seems broken [06:23:32] *RoanKattouw disables mvEmbed [06:24:09] RoanKattouw: take me back works! [06:24:36] Logo switch complete [06:24:50] TrevorParscal: It's to do with $stdLogo, the standard logo naming scheme [06:24:54] We wanna change that all at once [06:25:05] logo is visible on my side [06:25:12] does that mean we will have to do another cache purge at that time? [06:25:18] no [06:25:20] Yes and no [06:25:24] since the logo looks the same ;) [06:25:26] mark: if you are offering to rewrite all my js and css for vector... :P [06:25:29] eventually all pages will use the new path [06:25:30] Yes, for all the other wikis, but we'll be doing that anyway [06:25:40] No for enwiki, because the two URLs point to the same image [06:26:00] We could've changed $wgLogo for enwiki at this time but we didn't [06:26:20] that's what I was saying we should do [06:26:24] is it too late? [06:26:28] is this important? [06:26:32] yes [06:26:32] yes [06:26:36] why? [06:26:49] we need to take advantage of the cache purge so the path is set to the new logo [06:27:10] but WHY do we need the new path, and why now? [06:27:11] the old logos and new logos on commons are organized separately for the communications purposes [06:27:24] so there are links to the old logo which is now overwritten? [06:27:25] in PR? [06:27:43] it should have never been overwritten [06:27:44] Where old logo means [[en:File:Wiki.png]], not something on Commons [06:28:00] Would anyone care to explain *why*? [06:28:13] why is this an issue? [06:28:21] it complicates our configuration [06:28:24] I'm simply relaying what has been decided on at about 3 meetings [06:28:38] ...then that should've been communicated then [06:28:39] there are several parties involved in this which I'm representing [06:28:49] Then surely you can present at least one tangible reason [06:28:57] correct, i'm sorry if that's ball was dropped, I take the blame [06:29:11] but now I'm communicating it, so can we try and fix this? [06:29:26] can it wait until the rest of the switchovers? if not, why not? [06:29:34] I'm perfectly willing to fix this, I just wonder what it's good for [06:29:41] comment from another channel: Why is "contact us" displaying above the rest of the links at the far bottom. [06:29:43] All I hear is very vague reasons [06:29:52] if we wait for the other switch-overs, are we going to purge the cache at that time? [06:29:56] we want to introduce a systematic path for english so the rest of the language follows the same pattern [06:29:56] no [06:30:03] then, we need to do it now [06:30:05] Philippe: On which wiki? [06:30:07] TrevorParscal: pages with the old path will disappear over time [06:30:10] enwp [06:30:17] so after a few weeks, pretty much everything will be updated [06:30:19] but not instantly [06:30:42] but how long, some pages get updated very infrequently, meanwhile if someone changes the Wiki.png image, it will affect some pages, but not all [06:31:00] Wiki.png updates are instant [06:31:02] for all pages [06:31:10] if the path is set to Wiki.png [06:31:18] but if we set the new path, without purging caches [06:31:27] then some pages will point to one, while others point to the other [06:31:30] yes [06:31:38] and since it's the same image and thus looks the same, why is that a problem? [06:31:48] within days, or weeks at most, everything will be on the new path [06:32:14] so, I'm telling you why we want this [06:32:20] why do you want to not do this? [06:32:25] it sounds like it's a simple change [06:32:39] and you are second guessing the decision, so there must be some motivation on your part [06:32:58] yes, because it complicates our configuration, since the wikis need to be split [06:33:14] whereas your argument seems vague, you haven't provided an argument for why we need to use the new path immediately [06:33:24] it looks the same for all users, regardless of the path :) [06:33:39] looks the same !== is the same [06:33:40] and it'll be the way you want it soon enough [06:33:42] Can you name one tangible problem with not changing the path right now as opposed to changing it later? [06:33:52] yeah that would be nice [06:33:55] it's 2 images, not 1, we want 1 [06:34:03] It's a temporary solution [06:34:24] We are moving to the new path, just not immediately [06:34:33] RoanKattouw: famous last words :o [06:34:34] we don't want to have to monitor both images forever [06:34:40] you don't need to [06:34:41] I guess what I not getting is, what is wrong or broken if we let the path change slowly over days/a few weeks [06:34:44] in a few weeks, the old path will be gone [06:34:57] pages don't exist in squid caches forever [06:34:58] *what I am not [06:35:05] what's the expiration then? [06:35:08] mikelifeguard: Yeah, something about temporary solutions becoming permanent :P [06:35:30] like I said, in the order of a few weeks [06:35:58] isn't there an actual timeout? [06:36:04] i'll check [06:37:15] still getting reports of problems using the "take me back" feature [06:37:26] absolute maximum is 31 days [06:37:28] Philippe: database issue? [06:37:28] strike that, he's now saying it was 10 minutes ago [06:37:35] but I don't think any page survies nearly that long [06:37:46] survives* [06:37:50] he's just only now getting around to reporting it, naoko, so I think it's the fix that you already did. [06:38:06] (good) [06:38:20] and when are you planing on changing the path? [06:38:22] what date? [06:38:29] when we change all the other wikis to vector [06:38:39] Philippe: enwiki is using some customization to add that contact us link, could you ask where that customization is at? [06:38:45] so 2 weeks from now [06:38:50] RoanKattouw: I wouldn't even know who to ask. [06:38:51] is that 2 weeks from now? [06:38:56] yes [06:38:57] what day? [06:39:07] first week of june [06:39:12] I'll be on holiday... [06:39:15] I thought there was some vacation [06:39:16] yeah that [06:39:29]