[07:28:25] stupid IE. [07:28:40] seems there are still issues with the reftoolbar there. [11:07:46] thedj: About allowing users to choose Monobook using a cookie (you quoted a comment about that yesterday): that's not technically feasible due to Squid caching. Our servers would pretty much melt if we did that [11:08:11] i did ? i don't remember :D [11:08:31] *thedj checks backlog [11:08:49] oh right, i did [11:10:33] We actually considered this [11:10:46] Not for opting our of Vector, but opting into it, but that's conceptually the same [11:16:31] OMG some people really are paranoid to the point of being delusional: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:User_experience_feedback#New_Ajax_Trojan_iTEST_and_eXTReMe_Tracking_Key_Loggers_in_Wikipedia.27s_New_.22Beta.22_Query_Format [11:21:27] the URL of this link makes me want to laugh already [11:21:38] You should read it [11:21:39] Seriously [11:21:47] man there are some crazy-*ss comments on there [11:21:54] thedj: What was the JS he posted BTW, our SimpleSearch code? [11:22:10] but I guess most of the people who like it aren't going to post anything [11:22:32] RoanKattouw: not really sure, but it was jquery code. [11:23:16] *RoanKattouw looks in the history [11:24:04] Did you know that we have 28000 IE users that right-click, paste, press enter in the searchbox on each day ? http://stats.grok.se/en/201005/Null [11:24:10] how's that for clicktracking :D [11:24:34] correction 47000 users apparently [11:25:07] Yeah that's a nice statistic [11:25:28] Ha another guy posted a reply to the paranoid guy, burning all his points :) [11:27:07] thedj: HAHAHA he pasted the code of jQuery itself, that's hilarious [11:29:01] perhaps he uses some kind of bad malware detector, that triggers on each jquery site by accident. [11:29:54] It seems a lot of things happened to him at once [11:30:09] And he figured that if something bad happened right after visiting Wikipedia, it must be Wikipedia's fault [11:30:15] (post hoc ergo prompter hoc) [11:30:29] Or 'propter', whatever, I never took Latin [11:51:30] lol, "this stealth maneuver can only be designed to extend the distribution of Wikipedia's directory nodes into private sector data via unsecured keyboards while registering ip addresses for the unauthorized backup of entire hard drives." [11:51:52] *mikelifeguard 's mind is blown [11:53:29] yeah [11:53:33] that was pretty good wasn't it? [11:53:49] I knew WMF staff were evil, but this is a whole new level :D [11:54:03] *mikelifeguard locks his doors and windows and hides in the bathtub [11:55:05] too late, we're already here! :-P :-P [11:56:01] :OOOOOO [11:56:25] *mikelifeguard puts a brown paper bag over his head and resigns himself to your plans to harvest his organs [12:03:45] whatcha got, any kidneys? [14:58:56] RoanKattouw: what's the bug number for making interwikis uncollapsed by default? [14:59:55] I don't know offhand [15:00:00] *RoanKattouw searches [15:00:03] 23497 [15:00:33] vvv: ^ [15:00:36] Thanks [15:00:43] Will it be fixed soon? [15:01:01] that depends on if you consider it a bug, I presume [15:01:01] We'll have to discuss it [15:01:10] That's what we'll be discussing :) [15:01:57] RoanKattouw: I guess you better put it on the priority list. It seems like people on ru were discussing to introduce yet another petition against it [15:02:20] it's not even on their site yet is it ? [15:02:32] (well, I can't say they liked the Vector at all, but collapsed interwikis appears to be their main concern) [15:02:32] AFAIK it'll be a few weeks before the rollout on the rest of the wikis [15:03:15] What I don't get is that a lot of people honestly think it's gone although there's the "Languages" (or "In other languages", not sure which) item sitting right there [15:03:27] thedj: no, but they started panic beforehand [15:03:46] vvv: ppl panic too quickly in my experience :D [15:03:53] vvv: "petition against it" --> where "it" is ... ? [15:04:07] Interwikis or Vector in general [15:04:10] I'm not sure [15:04:12] sometimes you'd think the world is burning if you read what some ppl place as comments :D [15:05:13] sometimes you'd think the world is full of crazy people if you read what some ppl place as comments :D [15:05:23] I have been convinced of the latter by now [15:05:28] RoanKattouw: ps, you guys are now being accused of "drive by shooting" [15:05:36] Oh really [15:05:38] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:User_experience_feedback#Drive-by_updating [15:05:53] Never mind that we did extensive testing [15:06:06] And that drive-by updating was actually *the way stuff was done* for years [15:06:43] RoanKattouw: just to be sure. How much did the Usability team discussed the tabs outlook (namely, the fact that tabs [15:06:51] "dissolve" in background)? [15:06:52] The fact that tabs... what? [15:06:54] Oh [15:07:05] Sorry, hit Enter accidently [15:07:05] There were *endless* discussions about whether the tabs should be open or closed [15:07:18] *vvv was sure about it for some reason [15:07:29] At some point I told Trevor and Parul to stop wasting my time by arguing with each other while on the phone with me [15:08:06] I might be biased, being a back-end developer, but that seems like the most minor issue possible [15:08:24] the open tabs thing is really just one of those things that you get used to REALLY quickly. like most of Vector actually. [15:08:37] RoanKattouw: well, to me it was the reason I hated Vector initially [15:10:35] RoanKattouw: it is kinda funny they chose the API guy to work on UX :P [15:10:51] Though I believe it should be... ahem, ironic (?) to work as a back-end developer on a front-end project [15:10:54] what do you mean by open tabs? O_o [15:11:05] mikelifeguard: RoanKattouw is more their slave :D [15:11:13] mikelifeguard: Well they were kinda desperate, couldn't find anyone in SF, so they asked around on IRC [15:11:16] And I happened to reply [15:11:16] poor feller :D [15:11:26] At the time I was like the only guy they could get from what I know xD [15:11:38] But I've gotten quite good at front-end dev in the past year [15:11:45] has it been that long? [15:11:58] But that doesn't mean I know anything about *designing* front ends, just about implementing them [15:12:01] Late May 2009, yes [15:12:35] oh, the reason I came, well one of them... Why is the collapsible sidebar stuff on enwiki, but not on other wikis (ie meta) even though I've chosen vector skin? [15:13:27] Because I put it in the wrong section in the config file :D [15:13:42] Only wikis with Vector+toolbar by default have collapsible nav [15:13:52] Why wasn't collapsible sidebar properly introduced as a part of Vector skin and Beta testing so people could complain about interwikis before they were rolled out to anonymous users? [15:14:03] I'm not sure [15:14:10] We've had the feature for some time [15:14:17] *mikelifeguard wants the collapsible magic pleeeeease [15:14:18] Not very long, but long enough to put it in Beta [15:14:25] oh, it is on commons too [15:14:36] mikelifeguard: File a bug. Wikimedia -> Site requests , assign to me, CC nkomura@wikimedia.org [15:14:49] *mikelifeguard always thought the skins for all wikis were in sync always, even if the default changed per-wiki [15:14:53] *nod* [15:15:01] *mikelifeguard hopes someone opened bugzilla... [15:15:26] mikelifeguard: The code enabling collapsible nav is in the if ( $wmgUsabilityEnforce ) section so it's only triggered for wikis with that var set [15:16:25] vvv: My memory is a bit vague but as I recall 1) collapsiblenav was developed relatively late, although it wasn't late enough to be a good excuse and 2) Naoko was only convinced of its readiness when we were close to rollout time [15:16:32] "Usability enforce" [15:16:45] Not enabling collapsiblenav in Beta after the Commons rollout is an oversight on my part, I apologize for that [15:16:52] vvv: I didn't make that up, I'm guessing Rob did [15:17:02] Bad variable name [15:18:02] RoanKattouw: done [15:18:11] #23540 [15:18:19] Not as bad as hates Safari or browser blacklist thing [15:18:47] There is a var IHateIE in our code these days [15:19:01] There was a fixSafariBrokenness() function once [15:19:21] And the 'browser blacklist' is called the browser compatibility list I think [15:19:34] Yes, you're right [15:19:36] It makes sure our JS turns itself off on old versions of certain browsers [15:19:42] Say, IE <7, FF <2 [15:25:38] RoanKattouw, there's a reason I didn't actually LATER it. :P [15:25:42] Er, mikelifeguard * [15:26:05] hush you [15:26:11] *mikelifeguard already knows you know everything [15:26:15] LATER what? [15:26:27] RoanKattouw, the bug you told MIke to create, but I'm leaving, so bye! [15:26:46] kibble: QUICK, which one(s) evaluate to false in Perl? my @test = ("text", "", undef) [15:27:01] *mikelifeguard just learned this fun and very very useful fact ^_^ [15:27:40] I don't know Perl, but I'd say both "" and undef should evaluate to false [15:28:02] *mikelifeguard puts a gold star on RoanKattouw's forehead :) [15:28:17] but only undef fails defined() [15:28:26] mikelifeguard: same in PHP [15:28:43] which is so so useful for saying whether a page exists, is blank, or has text :) [15:28:52] vvv: but I don't even know what PHP stands for :P [15:29:06] Psomething Hypertext Preprocessor [15:29:10] mikelifeguard: neither do I, really ;) [15:30:23] PHP: Hypertext Preprocessor [15:30:45] *mikelifeguard should have guessed [16:08:59] *VaioStyle Discounts!! Our Special Limited Time Offers Up To May,22!!!New BranD!! Notebooks,Plasma and LCD TV's.Buy your electronic needs at our unique prices. Laptop Sony VAIO� VGN-FW590FFD-575,57$!!!Apple MacBook� Air MC234LL/A-695,27$!!! http://www.elplace.com/