[00:06:06] NewUser: The changes are based on quite a lot of good research and development done over a long period. But if you don't like it, just register an account, it isn't hard. [00:10:04] It is not about not liking it, it is about not usable for my browser. I do not understand why I should register for changing the layout. that could be done also by cookies. to me it seems you like to force people to use the new layout. and remember people who cannot view the page anymore can also not login! [00:10:55] NewUser: You don't understand Wikimedia's caching system. Please create an account so you can change the skin as you like. [00:11:40] However, even more helpful would be bug reports for whatever brokenness you're referring to! [00:19:11] iCab 3.0.5 @ MacOS 9.2.2 (that browser is 2 years old) - the page is totally unusable, I even cannot create an account. No link is woking etc. and you know that counts also for PS3 and mobilephones - they even cannot access wikipedia naymore, so just put a link to the old layout anywhere and work with cookies, to at least make wikipedia avilaible for us [00:19:58] Yes, we've had bug reports about PS3, I think. [00:20:17] I'll add iCab to the list, if I can find it. [00:20:47] NewUser: You should try adding ?useskin=monobook to the URLs so you can create an account, login, and change the skin permanently. [00:24:35] Clasilla 9.1 (Mozilla 1.7 & 1.8) @ 9.2.2 languages are not reachable at all. the whole navigation doesn�t work. I will not create a login, if you like to exclude minorities do so. but thanks for the ?useskin=monobook that one is working, and a workaround, even if it makes things harder. [00:27:57] We'd love to allow changing the skin for anonymous users, but is isn't feasible with our caching strategies. You're welcome to create an account to get the experience you want. [00:30:04] NewUser: If you like, you can also follow https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=23553 [00:37:09] ok, thank you. but really rethink your caching strategies or at least find any possibility for anonymous users to at least be possible to view the whole page. thanks also again for the ?useskin=monobook that helps a little bit. [00:40:08] The caching exists to keep the servers from melting, it won't be going away any time soon. You may be interested to know that Wikipedia is operated by a non-profit charity on a shoestring budget. If you want to buy us enough hardware so we don't have to cache page views for anonymous users, feel free :P [00:48:41] Come on, ... if you would be sure of that vector skin, the few old browsers who would use monobook or simple etc. cannot melt your servers. and of course i know enough about wikipedia. but you will understand that i also cannot donate anymore to a non-profit organisation that excludes me, and as only solution offers me to abandon anonymity. [00:52:12] Actually, you're more anonymous when you create an account. [00:53:27] with static IP maybe, but not with changing ones [00:54:22] cary: new logo render is much better. Thanks [00:54:32] vvv yay [00:54:34] Having a dynamic IP doesn't make you much more anonymous. [00:54:37] are you coming to wikimania this year? [00:54:40] Yes [00:54:44] Oh great! [00:55:37] Anyways, it is your choice to have a bad experience here, I've told you why things are this way and how to fix it. It is up to you whether you want to spend about 20s to do it rather than complain erroneously about being excluded or sacrificing anonymity. [00:58:07] well, thanks for the workaround and the bugentry, but I also told you that several browsers have no chance to acces wikipedia now anymore - and that�s up to you. good night. [00:58:57] he ... he thinks I care >_> [00:59:32] *mikelifeguard is good at pretending, sometimes ^_^ [01:07:34] wow [01:07:48] I'm actually happy I didn't see that discussion [01:16:30] iCab 3.0.5? [01:22:31] some gay browser. [01:23:05] Clasilla 9.1 [01:23:36] "Classilla is a Gecko-based web browser for PowerPC-based classic Macintosh systems, essentially an updated descendant of the now-defunct Mozilla Application Suite by way of the Mac OS port maintained in the now-aborted WaMCom project." [01:23:42] boy, doesn't that sound wonderful [01:24:31] How much more do you need before you realize it is a POS and you should switch to something with actual support? [01:24:32] scary [01:24:56] Well, we've lost 0.00001% of the internet with that one. [01:26:19] Yes, by deliberate exclusion and attempting to destory their anonymity, you should be oh-so-ashamed of yourself! [03:50:15] Let me try out lynx [03:53:13] it looks pretty good in lynx to me, if anyone needs help testing out lynx browsing errors, I will be happy to troubleshoot [05:37:31] anyone know if the "try beta" is translated anywhere? [05:37:49] linky? [05:38:48] well I have someone who wants us to translate the latin one to Tempta Beta [05:38:48] http://la.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pagina_prima [05:40:13] prolly on translatewiki, lemme see [05:42:46] can you give me a phrase out of the english text? [05:43:19] well the button is just Try Beta [05:44:12] I wouldn't be able to translate it all... at least not well.. but if we could fix it there it would at least make the skin look consistent (right now it is next to everything else in latin [05:44:55] ok, the button is "optin-try" in the usability initiative meta-group of messages [05:45:13] ahhh ok [05:45:16] *Jamesofur looks [05:45:26] http://translatewiki.net/w/i.php?title=MediaWiki:Optin-try/la&action=edit&loadgroup=ext-ui-0-all&loadtask=view [05:45:47] the text it leads to I dunno (I am using beta on the projects I'm active on) [05:45:56] *Jamesofur nods [05:45:57] thanks [05:46:01] sure [14:58:07] hexmode: you around? [14:58:25] yep [14:58:30] Ryan_Lane: yep [14:58:33] ok [15:14:15] hallo. [15:14:26] hi [15:14:29] a tooltip is supposed to appear for long search suggestions in en.wikipedia, isn't it? because it doesn't. [15:15:38] the famous example is "An Act to restrict membership of the House of Lords by virtue of a hereditary peerage; to make related provision about disqualifications for voting at elections to, and for membership of, the House of Commons; and for connected purposes" [15:17:00] yeah, roan said he enabled it, but i forgot to confirm it working yesterday [15:17:13] aharoni: will you file a bug and assign it to roan? [15:17:16] as a reminder? [15:17:31] OK [15:17:42] he may show up later, but he probably won't get to it till early next week? [15:17:55] (w/o question mark...) [15:19:24] https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=23617 [15:53:25] RoanKattouw: Hi. Did you notice the absence of the tooltip in SimpleSearch? https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=23617 [15:54:23] Hmph, it should be there [15:54:25] Will look at it [16:27:27] top ten logos done [16:46:09] cary: did you see my comment about the Hebrew font? [16:47:14] aharoni, a new comment? [16:47:20] http://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Wikipedia/2.0&diff=prev&oldid=39559630 is my last comment [16:49:05] i suggested using "Frank Ruehl" from the Culmus project for Hebrew [16:49:15] http://culmus.sourceforge.net/ [16:50:10] it is Free and similar to Libertine and it appears more mainstream to people who are used to reading Hebrew [16:50:58] and a serif font? [16:53:32] aharoni, of course there is a font named aharoni [16:53:41] this wouldn't give you a bias, would it? [16:53:43] :) [16:54:45] Frank Ruehl is serif [16:55:17] you can download a TTF from the FAQ section at the Culmus site [17:01:20] salut Otourly [17:07:09] re cary [17:10:45] aharoni, [[File:Wikipedia-logo-v2-he.svg]] [17:20:16] aharoni, [[File:Wikipedia-logo-v2-he.svg]] [17:26:29] cary: thanks. i think that it's already better. [17:27:06] maybe the graphics wizards from he.wp will improve it further [17:28:11] aharoni, i had to space out the letters because the text has to be wider than the globe [17:29:08] They can't move the globe, and they can't make the text less wide. [17:29:22] or too much bigger [18:09:56] cary: i understand, and i suppose that everyone else does, that the globe is supposed to be the same for all languages. [18:13:58] the question is how many tweaking to the letters and the kerning is acceptable. [18:19:56] aharoni, well, as long as it stays within those parameters, wider than the globe, not too big, any kerning and tweaking is fine [18:48:38] cary: i'm listening to your talk about OTRS, the one with the LOLcat from Flickr. you show a slide presentation there. can i get the presentation somewhere? [18:49:30] aharoni, what year is that? [19:06:56] hexmode: http://grid.tesla.usability.wikimedia.org/continuum <- set up a proxy rule for it [19:41:48] Vector gurus: Commons is hacked to appear quasi-RTL if an RTL language is selected using http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/MediaWiki:Rtl.css [19:42:12] it is not perfect and i am trying to improve it. [19:43:12] in the new search box the word "search" ("חיפוש" in Hebrew) appears on the left and overlaps with the magnifier. [19:43:44] does anyone have an idea how can i move this label to the right? [19:44:20] Top 20 done [19:44:29] i tried defining "#simpleSearch label { direction: rtl; }" and "#simpleSearch label { text-align: right; }", but it didn't help [19:46:04] I better fix Indonesian now [19:52:14] aharoni: the label and the magnifying glass should be on opposite sides [19:52:50] the label should be being positioned at right:0; relative to it's parent element in rtl languages [20:08:04] guillom and flipzagging: i sent the prototype url to the study participants :-) [20:37:25] OK. I was trying to think about, ehh, software engineering considerations. It makes sense to make as few manual tweaks as possible for the case the logo will have to be redrawn again. [20:39:25] But maybe i worry too much. [20:45:20] aharoni, whether or not the logo will be redrawn the text will remain in the same position [20:45:31] so any work done now will apply to later. [21:05:03] you mean to say that it's very easy to tweak images today? probably. i know very little about graphics software. [21:07:23] <^demon> Well first you get out the hammer and chisel to make a proof... [21:27:44] adam_miller_: thanks, it worked! [21:29:23] aharoni: We can probably fix https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=23622 in Firefox, but I'm not sure it's fixable in IE [22:58:12] nkomura: Sitenotice and anonnotice are down. :) [22:58:48] she's heading your way, actually [22:58:59] she found me, i'm confirmed that it's done :) [23:03:37] done, or down :) [23:03:43] very different lol [23:13:55] have a great weekend, everyone. bye [23:58:05] in this case, done and down mean the same thing :) [23:58:08] pulling it down is done. [23:58:09] :) [23:59:58] ahhh