[16:22:01] http://surroundities.com/ has a pretty cool way of helping new users. It steps them through the interface when they create an account. [16:22:48] Like an interactive tutorial. Though, their site is pretty simple. [16:23:25] It might be cool to have an interactive tutorial for MediaWiki, that users can use to step through all features. Even editing. [16:23:56] nkomura: morning :) [16:24:15] good morning, Ryan_Lane :-) [16:24:39] nkomura: I'm sad to hear you'll be leaving. You were a great project lead :) [16:24:57] nkomura: glad to hear you'll still be helping as a volunteer [16:25:34] thank you. you are a great project contributor. we couldn't get to where we are without your support. [16:25:43] thanks :) [16:25:45] yup, i will be around. :-) [16:26:37] nkomura: so, a friend just invited me to his new site, and it is has a pretty cool way of helping new users. [16:27:13] *nkomura is curious [16:27:20] nkomura: It has something that steps them through the interface after they create a new account [16:27:36] kind of like an interactive tutorial [16:27:48] It might be cool to have an interactive tutorial for MediaWiki, that users can use to step through all features. Even editing. [16:27:53] intersting [16:27:59] made via javascript [16:28:14] will you share it with usability alias? [16:28:17] kind of like how video games teach you how to play [16:28:29] mediawiki-l would be another good place to discuss [16:28:49] too bad that we haven't made use of idea torrent yet [16:29:02] yeah. It is available for use [16:29:09] maybe I should post it on there, and send the link out [16:29:48] authentication is still an issue, but that isn't likely to get solved any time soon :( [16:31:40] right [16:32:05] i think we can live with a separate IDs for the meantime [16:33:32] yeah. I think so too. I'll post it there, and see if we can get some use on the ideatorrent :) [16:41:03] nkomura: Is Howie in today? [16:56:10] RoanKattouw: he is not in yet, but he will be [16:56:15] OK [16:56:33] I fixed the optin stats for him (again) and had a few questions about what exactly he wanted out of the survey data [17:04:35] RoanKattouw: i will ask him to ping you when he gets in [17:31:56] does anyone know if the and tags have been added back into the vector trunk? [17:33:04] Dispenser: Trevor would be the best person to answer your question [17:33:12] but he is on vacation till next tuesday [17:33:54] ok [17:36:44] nkomura, my 11:00 just got freed up [17:36:55] although I'm still in favor of doing it over lunch [17:37:07] Dispenser: Probably not, I can't imagine anyone consciously adding them [17:37:26] File a bug report then? [17:37:54] cary: let's stick it for lunch then [17:56:45] RoanKattouw and nimish_g: where are you folks at in terms of summarizing the beta opt-out feedback? [17:56:56] is nimish_g still waiting for updated dump? [17:57:39] No idea [17:57:42] Howie in yet? [17:59:07] nkomura, I'm pretty sure I'm looking at the updated data. Just gone through german and polish, and most of the issues (problems in IE, lack of certain buttons, etc) seem to be fine... I'm about to go through Russian and Japanese b/c there were more specific concerns in them [17:59:13] http://toolserver.org/~catrope/survey/ looks ended October 09 [17:59:46] nimish_g: which ones are you viewing ? [18:00:19] http://usability.wikimedia.org/wiki/Beta_Feedback_Survey/User_Comments [18:01:15] nimish_g: piwik thing [18:01:15] i asked howie to join [18:01:19] whats this again? [18:01:28] this is the thing you emailed to staff about awhile back right? [18:02:05] RobH: ya, and you had me make a bug report for you after we found there was a mediawiki extension for it [18:02:14] bug #? [18:02:20] lemme check [18:02:31] nm [18:02:31] found it [18:02:56] hello [18:03:24] Hey [18:03:34] So I fixed those Apr-May optin stats [18:03:35] so what's the question about the survey? [18:03:37] great! [18:03:38] i saw that [18:03:48] i need to download the latest [18:03:56] thanks for doing that [18:04:09] So about the survey [18:04:18] What cutoff would you like? [18:04:28] I was thinking start at the end of the last dump you got, but I don't know when that is [18:04:32] yes [18:04:36] that would be ideal [18:04:39] i think that's jan 6? [18:04:54] but i honestly don't remember [18:05:10] wait it might be feb 24 [18:05:25] so we are talking about the beta survey here right? [18:05:29] Yes [18:05:36] http://toolserver.org/~catrope/survey/ [18:05:45] shows october as the last update [18:05:51] was there a dump after that? [18:05:51] Yeah the more recent dumps weren't on there any more [18:05:54] i thought there was [18:05:55] Yeah, multiple [18:06:01] But I didn't anonymize those [18:06:07] So they weren't published there [18:06:50] got it [18:07:40] can we do another run from Jan 1 to today for all languages and anonymize them? [18:08:06] Probably [18:08:27] the file size ends up being really big [18:08:34] Yes [18:08:44] We also might want to focus on what /we/ need first [18:09:21] i'd like to keep the file size down to a point where it's easy to share and also manageable in excel [18:09:50] I'm afraid the data set is simply too large for that [18:10:17] my understanding is that the most important thing right now is to surface issues for the upcoming 9 language wiki deployments [18:10:43] (and while we're at it, look at kowiki, hebrew, and arabic) [18:10:54] and then after that to surface issues for the remaining languages [18:11:03] what about zhwiki ? [18:11:04] OK so you want data for a limited set of wikis at this point? [18:11:22] Which are the upcoming 9 languages anyway? [18:11:50] i would be okay with that if it helps resolve the file size/data manipulation issues [18:11:59] Right [18:12:04] So [18:12:08] Which languages and which time frame? [18:12:13] de, fr, pl, it, ja, nl, es, pt, ru [18:12:17] nkomura: would you be okay with that? [18:12:29] or do you think we need something more comprehensive? [18:12:58] zhwiki, being no. 13 and a potential issue should probably be investigated? [18:13:39] focusing on the next nine languages make sense [18:13:47] and ko, he, ar if we can [18:14:10] but the next nine lang and the ones with lower retention is the high priority [18:14:15] ok [18:14:56] *cary still needs logo help [18:16:07] so let's do cary's list, plus zh, ko, he, and ar [18:16:12] ok [18:16:16] All wikis or just Wikipedia? [18:16:25] so the whole list is: de, fr, pl, it, ja, nl, es, pt, ru, zh, ko, he, ar [18:16:29] i think we just need wikipedia [18:16:38] the upcoming rollouts are for the wikipeidas [18:19:24] just wikipedia [18:19:35] OK and which time frame? [18:20:23] do you think feb 6-present will be too much data? [18:20:31] i'm thinking it should be okay since most of the data is enwiki [18:20:33] Let's find out [18:20:40] though dewiki generates a lot of comments too [18:24:59] OK here goes: [18:25:01] INSERT INTO cutoff2 SELECT * FROM optin_survey_grouped WHERE timestamp >= '20100206000000' AND wiki IN ('dewiki', 'frwiki', 'plwiki', 'itwiki', 'jawiki', 'nlwiki', 'eswiki', 'ptwiki', 'ruwiki', 'zhwiki', 'kowiki', 'hewiki', 'arwiki'); [18:25:27] *RoanKattouw sits around and waits for this query to finish, probably gonna take forever [18:26:23] Oh it wasn't that bad [18:26:24] 7.5 seconds [18:26:38] howief: 106,932 rows, that too big? [18:27:03] no that's fine [18:27:06] we may need to break into two files [18:27:10] but that should be manageable [18:28:48] OK lemme try and get a .csv out of this [18:30:07] Excel for Windows or Excel for Mac? [18:30:19] (If the latter, 2003 or 2008?) [18:30:56] *RoanKattouw assumes Windows, probably doesn't matter much anyway [18:33:19] i'm not sure if it matters [18:33:30] i've been using excel for mac until it starts to choke, then i switch to windows [18:35:22] OK [18:35:33] I'm about to send you a .csv.gz file [18:35:33] Contains just over 100k rows, some 9MB decompressed [18:35:42] yeah that should be fine [18:36:15] If you need to split it up I can guide you through doing so in the Terminal, or you could use a text editor (.csv is just text) [18:36:42] sounds good - thanks! [18:36:59] just got your email [18:37:40] Ryan_Lane: Would it make sense to make all staff members who request it admins on the Ideatorrent? [18:37:57] RoanKattouw: yes. staff should definitely get it [18:38:04] Whoa this channel has gotten full BTW, there's 30+ people in here now [18:39:11] arrrrrrrrggghhhhhhhhh. Windows. I hate Windows. I upgraded my OS, which wiped out my virtualbox settings, so I remade the virtual machine file, and added the OS disk. Now Windows is telling me that my copy isn't valid. [18:39:42] Ryan_Lane: Maybe talk to Jeff about getting a Windows license [18:40:16] I really just need to call microsoft :( [18:41:09] Ryan_Lane: no don't, they will track you down and hurt you for using linux!! you don't want them to know you even exist. [18:41:13] *Jamesofur hugs his ubuntu [18:41:14] be the ninja [18:45:10] Ryan_Lane: i never have that issue. [18:45:21] must be because windows isnt allowed on cluster ;p [18:45:26] *Ryan_Lane screams [18:45:59] i got to block G of the repeated numbers (second to last) and it couldn't understand "continue" and sent me to a person. now I'm on hold [18:46:08] RobH: this is on my home pc [18:46:13] ewwww [18:46:16] that sucks [18:46:29] i might someday have that issue then.... but i am still running xp sp2 in parallels. [18:46:49] im gonna run xp until it stops working like windows98 [18:46:52] ;] [18:47:27] (pro that is, screw that home exition nonsense [18:49:22] yeah. i have home [18:49:41] i just needed something to run vmware's stupid virtual infrastructure client [19:22:41] Afternoon, Ryan_Lane, Can I request some assistance running htmlsuite tests on the grid? [19:22:59] papyromancer: I can try :) [19:23:03] thanks :) [19:23:28] here's the command I'm using locally: [19:23:31] java -jar ~/src/selenium/selenium-server-1.0.3/selenium-server.jar -htmlSuite "*chrome" "http://mwembed/tests/" /home/papyromancer/src/mwEmbed.MwEmbedStandAlone/tests/selenium_tests/FULL_TEST_SET.html results.html [19:23:59] of course this isn't on my prototype server, should I set that up first? [19:24:21] why not export it to php, and run the php? [19:24:53] because it's not specifically running in mediawiki, it's stand alone code [19:24:54] that line looks to me as if you are running the test against your own local selenium server [19:25:30] yes, I'd like to be able to run it against tesla, but I'm not sure which command I should be figuring out [19:25:38] to make that happen [19:25:48] papyromancer: you should put the mwEmbed stuff somewhere a web browser can hit it [19:25:54] papyromancer: then export your tests as php [19:26:04] I can put it at mwembed.papyromancer.net [19:26:21] papyromancer: why not just put it on the test wiki on prototype? :) [19:26:43] Ryan_Lane: Mainly because I don't want to break the server accidentally [19:26:46] ;) [19:26:49] heh [19:26:58] I don't mind breaking my server [19:27:10] I can change ownership of the wiki to you, so that you don't have to change to root [19:27:18] papyromancer: then you don't have to worry about breaking anything [19:27:44] that would be rad :) [19:28:16] *papyromancer is more branchy than rooty [19:29:10] papyromancer: ok. changed ownership to you [19:29:44] muchos [19:29:46] papyromancer: your wiki is at: /srv/org/wikimedia/prototype/wikis/test-1 [19:30:03] papyromancer: as long as you only do stuff under there, there is no chance of breaking anything [19:30:35] papyromancer: when you export your tests as PHP, you'll want to point to http://grid.tesla.usability.wikimedia.org:4444 as the server [19:31:04] papyromancer: http://grid.tesla.usability.wikimedia.org:4444/console shows the list of available environments [19:31:27] papyromancer: if you want to test firefox, you won't use *chrome, you'll use something like "Firefox 3.5 on Windows" [19:32:20] papyromancer: whether your tests are standalone, or not, you still should write your tests as php :) [19:32:25] proper nouns, I get it, thanks for the tips :) I'll be trying it shortly [19:32:59] cool [19:33:18] let me know if you have any issues [19:34:01] Cheers :) [19:45:43] Ryan_Lane: One more quick favor to ask: May I install git? [19:46:27] papyromancer: umm. I can if you'd like. Why do you need it? [19:46:32] We don't have git on prototype? [19:46:46] RoanKattouw: nope [19:46:49] I keep all my work in git and use git svn dcommit for my commits [19:46:59] I just added it. do you need any packages other than git? [19:47:00] I work faster in git [19:47:05] I remember being angry with the university folks when git wasn't set up on our parallel computing practical boxes [19:47:26] git-svn maybe? [19:47:32] if it's a separate package [19:47:35] I'm no git fanboy, but my friend had set up a git repo to do the assignments in and I was kind of surprised svn was there and git wasn't [19:47:46] papyromancer: done [19:47:55] Ryan_Lane: you rock [19:47:59] heh. thanks [19:48:18] its nice working somewhere people actually like sys-admins [19:49:32] Ryan_Lane: yes, but have you crashed the cluster yet? [19:49:38] then you'll really feel the love :D [19:49:45] I don't have access to the cluster ;) [19:49:49] oh [19:49:55] count your blessings :D [19:50:12] haha [19:50:39] at my day job I had a script that ate everyone's home directories one day. that was exciting. I got tons of hate over that [19:51:17] no love on the fact that it creates their home directories automatically, or fixes them when their primary group changes, or the million other things it does ;) [20:02:41] Ryan_Lane: do you know how the drupal auth works? is there a plugin or somewhere we could easily add a few lines of php ? [20:03:33] where is the path .. of that ideatorrent on prototype.. maybe papyromancer could check it out.. papyromancer have you done any drupal work? [20:04:10] We could probably use face-book or twitter connect as a template. [20:04:28] mdale: well, openid extension is installed [20:04:50] mdale: it's at: /srv/org/wikimedia/prototype/ideas/en-idea [20:05:13] oky going to take a quick peek see if it would be easy [20:07:01] I'm betting not :) [20:07:04] mdale: I haven't used it since 5.0 was stable :( [20:08:30] I like their disregard for file extensions ;) [20:09:00] it annoys me. vi doesn't color highlight it properly [20:09:39] mdale: how will you link the drupal account with the wikimedia account? [20:10:44] poke kalan [20:10:51] er.. enhydra [20:11:15] the same way the other shared auth applications do it [20:11:16] both actually hilight me [20:11:21] hi cary :) [20:11:45] anyway [20:13:42] Ryan_Lane: really would require a day or two to do it properly with per-site approval and to package up a module that anyone could use. [20:14:21] mdale: well, this will just be on our ideatorrent, so you can deploy it whenever you are ready [20:14:29] mdale: I can give you drupal admin if you'd like [20:14:59] mdale: or does every wikipedia need to have something done for this? [20:15:00] oky investigating .. no promises yet ;) [20:15:19] ideally people have universal login enabled [20:15:44] so if they have logged into one wikipedia.. it will automatically carry their credentials to other wikis [20:16:24] and IE users have to click the little privacy icon that pops up in the lower part of their browser.. but I have a little screen shot telling them to do so in the api-proxy could not connect msg [20:16:50] mdale: It sounds like your API proxy violates the same origin policy, is that true? [20:17:31] hmm.. yes but you approval for the domains you want to allow to run stuff [20:17:37] you have to approve I mean [20:17:42] and presently its hard coded [20:17:55] so only prototype could use it [20:45:05] Ryan_Lane: how would you like for me to approach quickly updating the code running at [20:45:21] papyromancer: eh? [20:46:11] I wonder if we should assume that users know how to use copy & paste [20:46:32] *papyromancer is attacked by a flying microwave [20:46:34] http://prototype.wikimedia.org/test.1/Main_Page [20:46:59] link /srv/org/wikimedia/prototype/wikis/test-1 [20:47:09] papyromancer: update in which way? [20:47:17] papyromancer: svn up? [20:47:38] to folders in my home directory which look like: [20:47:43] http://pastebin.ca/1873508 [20:48:08] I'm confused as to what you are trying to do [20:48:11] sorry that took so long to transmit, I'nm doin g rsyncs from the netbook [20:48:33] I'm trying to make the /srv path link to a folder in my home directory [20:48:44] or is that a bad idea [20:48:44] oh. why? [20:49:07] I've 5 different codebases or so it seems to me [20:49:30] it's the curse of StandAlone ;) [20:49:57] what's the endgoal of what you are trying to accomplish? [20:50:06] so on my own machine I'm just linking thedirectory apache serves to whichever version of the library I need to test [20:50:20] ah. ok [20:50:45] I want to be able to quickly switch between the different code bases [20:51:03] papyromancer: so, where would mwEmbed normally sit? [20:51:24] it sits in my home directory and links to the active library [20:52:05] papyromancer: wouldn't you want to do it the opposite direction? [20:52:30] papyromancer: have the link point to the active library, and have the link sit somewhere accessible via the webserver? [20:53:15] papyromancer: if this doesn't require a MediaWiki install, I can create another directory for this [20:54:42] I think i need to be root to change the directory at /srv/org/wikimedia/prototype/wikis/test-1 into a link to the proper librar [20:55:08] is that going to be possible? [20:55:20] Ryan_Lane: ^^ [20:55:21] papyromancer: well, test-1 is the wiki. [20:55:43] and I've copied that directory into my home directory on prototype [20:56:25] papyromancer: I'm trying to get you out of your home directory :) [20:57:03] If you give me a recipe to follow, I'll follow it [20:57:16] papyromancer: I need to figure out what you are trying to do. gimme a sec [20:57:37] papyromancer: so, you want to run selenium tests against some standalone html and javascript? [20:57:44] yes [20:57:53] papyromancer: that doesn't interact with any wiki? or will it interact with a wiki? [20:58:14] it will interact with commons to pull media [20:58:29] papyromancer: ah ok. so you don't need a test wiki for this [20:58:35] into standalone installations on wordpress blogs, etc [20:58:39] no [20:58:53] k. gimme a sec [20:58:55] but I do need a test wikifor the regular mwEmbed [21:00:25] papyromancer: so, mdale is currently using: /srv/org/wikimedia/prototype/wikis/mwe-gadget/ for this [21:01:00] papyromancer: and that is aliased to: http://prototype.wikimedia.org/mwe-gadget/ [21:01:27] papyromancer: Want me to set up something similar for you? [21:01:36] ah.. that would be great :) [21:01:56] Ryan_Lane: maybe http://prototype.wikimedia.org/mwe-gadget-testing ? [21:02:04] works for me [21:02:06] mdale: sounds good to me [21:02:09] sec [21:03:06] papyromancer: ok, move all of your mwEmbed stuff into: /srv/org/wikimedia/prototype/wikis/mwe-gadget-testing [21:03:35] papyromancer: then you can use a link to point to different active codebases [21:04:19] papyromancer: for the regular mwEmbed, use: /srv/org/wikimedia/prototype/wikis/test-1 [21:04:47] so I just change ./mwe-gadget-testing to link to the current standalone mwEmbed I'm working with? [21:05:48] papyromancer: no. inside of that directory, do something like: ln -s mwEmbed.AddMediaWizard mwEmbed [21:06:00] ok, I'll do that [21:06:16] papyromancer: then use the following link: http://prototype.wikimedia.org/mwe-gadget-testing/mwEmbed [21:09:03] ok. added an apache rule for it. it should be accessible now [21:11:13] Thanks so much Ryan_Lane, sorry I was overcomplicating it [21:11:37] papyromancer: your welcome. no problems. It's all worked out now :) [21:14:16] BTW, I'm coming through NOLA on my way to Grand Isle on the 7th (penciled in anyway), it's a Monday, I owe you a beer. [21:14:27] heh [21:14:29] cool [21:14:31] sounds good [21:14:52] I'll confirm later (probably around the 5th ;) [21:42:50] ugh. poor to no ganglia support on windows. that'll make it painful to performance monitor [21:49:58] well, looks like I can use cygwin for it. (painful) [22:11:16] Hey, does anyone have MS Office's Arial Unicode MS font? [22:11:35] I know it's not free, but there's no appropriate free font for Gujarati [22:19:28] cary: i have MS office at home, but i haven't it installed in on Windows 7 yet ... [22:19:51] i can try to bring it it in the week of June 7 [22:22:20] cary: sudo apt-get install msttcorefonts [22:22:38] there's arial in it, I think [22:23:00] dunno if it's the Unicode version [22:32:26] oooh [22:54:37] howief, kibble has already started work on that page :) [22:54:50] Releases/Default Switch [22:55:01] that's great news!