[16:35:05] <cary>	anyone up for translations?
[17:02:45] <TrevorParscal>	adam_miller: how's it going?
[17:20:26] <adam_miller>	TrevorParscal: sorry i was eating lunch...i'm doing good
[17:20:42] <TrevorParscal>	no worries
[17:20:47] <TrevorParscal>	we have a meeting in like 9 minutes
[17:20:57] <TrevorParscal>	Roan is not here yet...
[17:30:42] <TrevorParscal>	Where's roan I wonder...
[17:33:30] <adam_miller>	sleeping
[17:34:09] *cary 	grumbles at TrevorParscal 
[17:34:27] <adam_miller>	maybe eating a later-than-usual dinner
[17:34:30] <cary>	Can we not make the work of the volunteers more difficult than it already is?
[17:36:41] <cary>	there he is now.
[17:36:42] <adam_miller>	TrevorParscal: 2001?
[17:36:49] <RoanKattouw>	TrevorParscal: Which ext?
[17:36:52] <RoanKattouw>	(S
[17:37:00] <RoanKattouw>	(Sorry I'm late, laptop was being difficult)
[17:37:15] <RoanKattouw>	Sound was broken, then when I tried to close a window it hung up completely
[17:37:43] <cary>	yes, adam_miller
[17:37:45] <cary>	2001
[17:37:51] <cary>	according to Google calendar
[17:38:52] <TrevorParscal>	ok
[17:38:53] <TrevorParscal>	heading to room
[17:54:09] <Roan-meeting>	adam_miller: http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikitech-l/2010-May/047925.html
[18:02:20] <adam_miller>	RoanKattouw: was looking at https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=23496
[18:02:31] <adam_miller>	were suggestions disabled in Opera 9.x?
[18:02:46] <adam_miller>	i can't get any suggestions to appear when using the insert link dialog
[18:03:22] <TrevorParscal>	RoanKattouw: have you been able to reproduce that bug?
[18:03:37] <RoanKattouw>	I have not
[18:03:42] <RoanKattouw>	It seems we have more issues in Opera 9
[18:03:48] <RoanKattouw>	Collapsible Nav is broken
[18:03:58] <RoanKattouw>	Apparently link suggestions are broken
[18:04:11] <RoanKattouw>	adam_miller: Do the SimpleSearch suggestions work in O9?
[18:04:42] <adam_miller>	RoanKattouw: sortof...it shows the drop down with the 'containing ...' option
[18:04:46] <adam_miller>	but no suggestions
[18:05:33] <RoanKattouw>	*That's* weird
[18:05:46] <RoanKattouw>	Lemme see if I have Opera 9 lying around
[18:07:15] <RoanKattouw>	Hm, I have Opera 10.10
[18:07:29] <RoanKattouw>	Let's install Opera 9; can never have too many browser
[18:07:35] <RoanKattouw>	s
[18:07:47] <RoanKattouw>	adam_miller: Which version do you see this on exactly? 9.8? 9.63?
[18:07:54] <adam_miller>	9.6
[18:08:02] <adam_miller>	9.73
[18:08:04] <adam_miller>	er
[18:08:07] <adam_miller>	9.63
[18:09:07] <RoanKattouw>	Thanks
[18:09:24] *TrevorParscal 	is looking through old VM instances for opera
[18:10:24] *TrevorParscal 	found opera 8
[18:10:25] <TrevorParscal>	wow
[18:10:29] *cary 	wonders why TrevorParscal thinks he'll find Opera in his voicemail
[18:10:51] <TrevorParscal>	VM == virtual machine :))
[18:11:45] <TrevorParscal>	other meanings include violent muppets and velvet man-suit
[18:12:31] <TrevorParscal>	yeah, we need to blacklist opera <= 8 for sure
[18:12:36] <TrevorParscal>	search and nav is broken
[18:13:17] <RoanKattouw>	So SimpleSearch and Coll. Nav need to blacklist Opera
[18:13:23] <RoanKattouw>	Old Opera that is
[18:13:26] <TrevorParscal>	yeah
[18:13:37] <TrevorParscal>	trying to figure out the oldest version these things work
[18:13:59] *TrevorParscal 	shuts down Windows 2000 VM, wishing it was forever...
[18:14:17] <TrevorParscal>	loading xp
[18:14:18] <RoanKattouw>	The internet is making it very difficult to download Opera 9.63 for Linux
[18:14:29] <cary>	stupid internet
[18:14:34] <RoanKattouw>	All these sites offer me .exe's, then when I finally get a Linux download it insists on 10.10
[18:15:09] <RoanKattouw>	Oh here we go
[18:15:22] <TrevorParscal>	i got 9.6 on XP going now
[18:15:33] <TrevorParscal>	nav and search work
[18:15:48] <TrevorParscal>	no errors, no bugs
[18:17:35] <TrevorParscal>	hmm
[18:17:49] <TrevorParscal>	so, why did we get bug reports on 9.6.3 ?
[18:20:49] <RoanKattouw>	OK I have 9.63 working
[18:20:55] <RoanKattouw>	It's immediately telling me to upgrade to 10.10
[18:22:10] <TrevorParscal>	yeah
[18:22:19] <TrevorParscal>	you can chek the box to tell it not to ask again can't you?
[18:22:24] <TrevorParscal>	i can on windows
[18:22:53] <guillom>	ok, this may sound like a dumb question, but don't we pay Calcey to do cross-browser QA testing?
[18:23:41] <guillom>	I thought we were catching most browser issues that way
[18:29:08] <RoanKattouw>	Apparently they don't test on Opera 9.63
[18:32:42] <guillom>	hah
[18:40:48] <RoanKattouw>	Nav WFM on Opera 9.63
[18:41:33] <RoanKattouw>	adam_miller: Both Collapsible Nav and SimpleSearch work for me on Wikipedia in Opera 9.63 on Linux
[18:41:56] <flipzagging>	What is the difference between a BCP ("Best Current Practice") and an RFC?
[18:42:23] <flipzagging>	e.g. http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/bcp/bcp47.txt attempts to describe how companies like Google use (or abuse) ISO 639
[18:42:29] <RoanKattouw>	Ask Wikipedia?
[18:43:17] <flipzagging>	RoanKattouw: ...that actually worked
[18:45:05] <RoanKattouw>	TrevorParscal, adam_miller: I cannot reproduce broken suggestions, broken nav or bug 23496 on Opera 9.63/Linux
[18:45:13] <RoanKattouw>	Lemme install Opera 9.63/Windows in my VM
[18:45:34] <adam_miller>	RoanKattouw: i'm seeing it on a iMacintosh comuter
[18:45:51] *RoanKattouw 	doesn't have a Mac VM
[18:45:51] <adam_miller>	collapsible left nav works fine for me though
[18:46:44] <TrevorParscal>	adam_miller: so search on opera 9.6/mac fails?
[18:46:53] <adam_miller>	just suggestions
[18:46:58] <adam_miller>	they aren't loading for me
[18:49:47] <adam_miller>	RoanKattouw, TrevorParscal.....maybe because i have console.log() in my suggestions javascript file :|
[18:50:09] <RoanKattouw>	Yeah that'll do it
[18:50:11] <TrevorParscal>	hmmm
[18:54:39] <TrevorParscal>	so it sounds like we need to set the blacklist to "< opera 9.6"
[18:55:11] <RoanKattouw>	Yeah
[18:55:15] <RoanKattouw>	Lemme introduce a blacklist for those things
[18:55:24] <TrevorParscal>	thanks
[18:58:14] <RoanKattouw>	Shall I do Opera <= 9.6 just to be sure?
[18:58:25] <RoanKattouw>	Ah, I mean allow Opera >= 9.8
[19:00:16] <RoanKattouw>	TrevorParscal: Poke, decision time: whitelist Opera >= 9.6 or >= 9.8 ?
[19:00:47] <TrevorParscal>	the bug was for 9.6 right?
[19:01:46] <RoanKattouw>	I think so
[19:01:57] <RoanKattouw>	No, 9,8
[19:02:01] <RoanKattouw>	But I can't reproduce it on Linux
[19:02:09] <RoanKattouw>	Just installed Opera 9.63 on Windows, let's see what that does
[19:10:19] <RoanKattouw>	WFM in Opera 10.00/Windows as well
[19:11:18] <RoanKattouw>	TrevorParscal: The bug was filed against 10.00, but I tried three different versions (10.00/XP, 9.63/XP, 9.63/Ubuntu) and couldn't reproduce
[19:18:15] *RoanKattouw 	gives up on getting TrevorParscal to answer, commits blacklisting for < 9.6
[19:18:45] <RoanKattouw>	TrevorParscal: As you have Opera 8 lying around anyway, could you test my blacklisting code?>
[19:50:50] <Jamesofur|out>	is the discussion about a change in the default behavior of the language links basically over now or is that still open? (sorry for some reason didn't see the response about it on the feedback page until today and the email about it... even though I know it was posted weeks ago)
[19:51:54] <RoanKattouw>	I don't believe any of the UX people ever got involved in it
[19:52:06] <RoanKattouw>	I'm really not the right person to talk to, and the others are out to lunch I guess
[19:52:52] <Jamesofur|out>	no worries, I saw Howie's response to the question saying that they didn't think it was necessary but then it seemed to leave it at that. But that was left weeks ago so who knows whats happened since then
[19:53:07] <Jamesofur|out>	I know the bug is still open https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=23497 so at least it isn't closed ;)
[20:08:30] <kibble>	howief, what's the status with the FAQ?
[20:08:35] <kibble>	Can we get that finalized soon?
[20:20:26] <adam_miller>	TrevorParscal or RoanKattouw: Could i reassign https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=22801 to one of you? I believe it's a bit out of my grasp
[20:20:57] <RoanKattouw>	Give it to me
[20:21:03] <RoanKattouw>	Although I'm not sure what the issue is there
[20:21:11] <TrevorParscal>	I do think Roan is the most familiar with S&R
[20:21:18] <RoanKattouw>	Yes
[20:21:34] <adam_miller>	RoanKattouw: want this one too? https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=22878
[20:22:10] <RoanKattouw>	Oh sure
[20:45:38] <TrevorParscal>	RoanKattouw: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/ScriptLoader/Requirements
[20:45:52] <TrevorParscal>	perhaps you could prod tim to provide some requirements
[20:45:59] <TrevorParscal>	then you and I can synthesize them a bit
[20:46:03] <RoanKattouw>	OK
[20:48:36] <adam_miller>	TrevorParscal: do browsers fire an event when you drag text into an input field?
[20:50:02] <adam_miller>	change doesn't seem to fire, neither dose mouseup or focus
[20:50:17] <RoanKattouw>	change is one of the most useless events ever
[20:50:26] <RoanKattouw>	It's only useful for <select>s
[20:50:29] <TrevorParscal>	adam, i think not
[20:51:32] <TrevorParscal>	adam_miller: i think the best you can do is poll for changes if it's really important
[20:51:39] <TrevorParscal>	not sure how costly that is
[20:52:09] <RoanKattouw>	adam_miller: Heads up: AaronSchulz joined #mediawiki
[20:52:13] <adam_miller>	if you drag text in to the search box, the label never goes away
[20:52:17] <TrevorParscal>	document > mouseup { did something change? do someting : do nothing }
[20:52:48] <TrevorParscal>	the document should get a mouseup in cases where something could have been dragged
[20:53:25] *TrevorParscal 	is testing his theory
[20:54:20] <TrevorParscal>	hmmm
[21:00:51] <adam_miller>	TrevorParscal: do you know what the password for the wikisysop user would be on my local setup?
[21:01:06] <adam_miller>	i'm guessing itd be the same as yours since i used those scripts from you to setup my wiki
[21:02:50] <RoanKattouw>	adam_miller: You could just be lazy and use maintenance/createAndPromote.php
[21:04:15] <TrevorParscal>	should be wiki
[21:04:18] <adam_miller>	RoanKattouw: that requires figuring something else foreign out...the lazy thing here is to get the password for the only admin account i have locally
[21:05:08] <adam_miller>	TrevorParscal: wiki didn't work
[21:06:51] <adam_miller>	did it RoanKattouw's way
[21:08:20] <howief>	kibble: the FAQs are ready to be translated
[21:08:39] <howief>	there may be some minor changes/additions, but please feel free to go ahead
[21:08:42] <howief>	and thanks for helping out!
[21:10:05] <kibble>	howief, awesome, thanks.
[21:23:02] <TrevorParscal>	adam_miller: mozilla supports the "dragend" event
[21:23:21] <adam_miller>	......
[21:23:37] <TrevorParscal>	$j( document ).bind( 'dragend', function( event ) {
[21:23:37] <adam_miller>	so we can support like a third of browsers?
[21:23:37] <TrevorParscal>	    console.log( 1 );
[21:23:37] <TrevorParscal>	} );
[21:23:42] <adam_miller>	i guess thats better than nothing
[21:23:44] <TrevorParscal>	https://developer.mozilla.org/en/Drag_and_drop_events
[21:23:48] <TrevorParscal>	better than nothing
[22:03:09] <adam_miller_away>	pdhanda: you added contentCollector.js to the make file, but never added contentCollector.js to the repository
[22:03:28] <pdhanda>	crap
[22:03:35] <pdhanda>	thanks	adam_miller
[22:04:20] <adam_miller>	no worries, just let me know when you commit it please
[22:04:24] <pdhanda>	done
[22:04:41] <adam_miller>	thanks