[04:15:08] bye [16:02:54] Good morning all [16:03:27] I am ready to flip the switch for this deployment, just waiting for mark to say he's ready too and for Eloquence to give the green light [16:07:44] today it seems several people had pages in monobook, while their skin was in vector [16:07:57] (on projects with vector) [16:08:52] Yes [16:09:11] That was because RobH brought back a server to life yesterday and forgot to synchronize the software+config [16:09:18] So it was running off the pre-switchover config [16:10:16] :| [16:10:36] less than hour before, yep? [16:10:37] ah ok :p [16:11:14] 1,5 hour ago [16:11:40] nope, I'm about switching to vector for the next part of wikis [16:11:52] s/before/until/ [16:12:37] Verbs are nice. [16:12:41] is there a message/pressrelease that the outroll will be today? [16:13:02] wizardist: Actually, it was rescheduled for 16:00 UTC, or 15 mins ago [16:13:38] RoanKattouw: then something goes wrong [16:13:40] Romaine: They were late with the pre-release sitenotice so they dropped it, but there will be a post-release one [16:13:45] why was it resheduled? [16:13:58] Because we have a meeting at 18:00 [16:14:09] So doing it at 17:00 was too tight [16:14:20] OTOH, since 16:00 UTC = 9am PDT, most people aren't around yet, it seems [16:14:32] dude, totally just say 'someone brought a server online and didnt sync right' =p [16:15:56] french, english, spanish wikis where switched before. such a move for Brasil only? :) [16:16:43] RoanKattouw: mark: hello [16:17:16] wizardist: ? ptwiki was switched already, right? [16:17:56] and be-x-old was not yet [16:18:44] Surely that's not Brazil? Looks Cyrillic [16:18:59] Belarusian (Tara??kievica) [16:19:05] Ah [16:19:27] bastique: Do we want to deploy logo switches as well today? [16:19:36] I thought we were, yes. [16:20:10] Which ones? [16:20:31] The ones for the projects which are being switched. If those don't exist default to -en [16:21:02] OK [16:21:06] So I have to build a list [16:21:15] Have to figure out something w/r to the Arabic languages. Nothing has been decided yet... [16:21:30] http://usability.wikimedia.org/wiki/Releases/Default_Switch/Phase_IV_projects [16:21:30] Arabic-Persian script languages. [16:22:10] bastique: OK so the list of projects we're switching over is at http://noc.wikimedia.org/conf/switchover-jun30.dblist . If any projects should be taken off that list, speak now [16:22:11] ugh, and no logo for yiwiki either. [16:22:37] I believe they all have logos, except for yiwiki [16:22:48] Although the logos might not be perfect for some of them. [16:22:56] Someone could check that... [16:23:21] OK I need your help compiling a list of logos [16:23:31] Or someone's [16:23:31] Is there any page that has like a gallery of logos or something? [16:23:42] [[Commons:Wikipedia/2.0]] [16:24:11] ^^^ [16:24:37] http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia/2.0/worksheet#Phase_I_through_IV_logos <--- these had the original list. Might want to add on. [16:24:44] note: arz should be exactly the same as ar [16:24:50] OK [16:24:53] But AR isn't perfect [16:25:29] I am going to make a list now at http://eiximenis.wikimedia.org/Jun30Logos . People wanting to help me can add logos to that list. bastique or someone else: if a logo is bad and shouldn't be used, please note that on that same Etherpad [16:26:51] which logo is to be "bad"? [16:31:28] ar, arz, fa <-- no proper font has been decided and I've needed help building the logo images that hasn't come. [16:31:49] yi <-- the FrankRuel font doesn't support all Yiddish characters. [16:39:08] wizardist: Thanks for the help [16:39:13] :) [16:40:31] bastique: OK so we've made the list on the Etherpad. arwiki is commented out, arzwiki, fawiki and yiwiki aren't on the list [16:40:34] there could be no need for help. v2\-([a-z\-]{2,10})\.png and s/-/_/ [16:40:56] wizardist: Did you remove fa and yi by any chance? [16:41:03] nope [16:41:16] OK I guess they weren't on the list then [16:41:26] I autogenerated the list based on the first gallery on that wikipage [16:41:27] odd [16:41:51] OK, however [16:41:55] There are too many logos in that list [16:42:07] So there are wikis in that list that aren't on the switchover list [16:42:12] Yes, well that's *all* the logos [16:42:27] or possible logos [16:42:30] RoanKattouw: I'll correct some syntax [16:42:35] 9_9 [16:42:44] *bastique goes back to his other pressing work. [16:42:45] Right [16:42:46] ok, now it's ok [16:42:50] So I need to filter that list [16:42:58] Which will be easy now that it's in PHP notation [16:55:05] OK, final list of logos ready [16:55:24] bastique: I have compiled a list of wikis that are both on the switchover list and have a logo. There are 50 of them [16:55:32] is guwiki on that list? [16:55:58] oh it's not [16:56:35] Added list of wikis being switched over without a logo [16:57:02] I'm sure I can generate a few of those [16:57:16] Eloquence, howief, TrevorParscal: POKE. I am really all set now, including the list of logos. Can we roll now? [16:57:17] frpwiki, kshwiki, yowiki [16:57:31] let me take a final look at the list [16:57:31] *TrevorParscal looks around [16:58:02] looks good to me - I think we would be safe to switch simple english, but I've not fully validated that, so let's wait until phase V for that [16:58:08] Eloquence: Logo list @ http://eiximenis.wikimedia.org/Jun30Logos [16:58:23] Good luck, guys! [16:58:23] RoanKattouw: add those three I just mentioned. I'll have the logos in place shortly. [16:58:28] OK so we should pull the logo for simple? Or pull simple from the switchover list altogether? [16:58:36] In the meantime I'll upload the old ones as placeholders. [16:58:37] bastique: Can't do it until the logos are there, won't know the URL before that [16:58:42] OK that's cool too [16:58:45] or, better yet, do the English ones as placeholders. [16:58:48] As long as there is *a* file there [16:58:51] Very short lived placeholders. [16:59:15] RoanKattouw: simple is not in the dblist [16:59:36] Right, and it isn't in the logo list either [17:00:18] RoanKattouw: I hope there should be db names in the list? (for example not be-x-oldwiki, but be_x_oldwiki) [17:00:25] wizardist: Yes [17:00:30] wikis "without logo" will fall back to old logo or to en.wp logo? [17:00:42] dillema :) [17:00:54] old logo? [17:00:55] dilemma* [17:00:59] old logo I hope [17:01:01] me too [17:01:06] ok :) [17:01:09] I think old one is the good one [17:01:11] it would be very weird to give them en.wp logo [17:01:11] is the list on Jun30Logos incomplete? [17:01:19] fy-wiki for example [17:01:44] it looks good to me from my end then [17:01:54] Romaine: It's complete for the wikis that are being switched over toda [17:02:29] Romaine: fywiki is not on http://noc.wikimedia.org/conf/switchover-jun30.dblist [17:02:36] Don't ask me why, I didn't make that list [17:03:04] mmm [17:03:24] The switch is UTC today? [17:03:33] Yes [17:03:42] In fact, if everyone is ready, I'd like to start now [17:03:46] just want to make sure everyone knows that the New Features page hasn't been translated for all languages [17:03:48] mark: Are you ready for the switchover? [17:03:58] yes [17:04:02] since I'm not doing anything for it :P [17:04:11] go ahead [17:05:28] someone please explain why frp requires VOU in the beginning. [17:05:46] howief: English it should be then [17:05:46] I'm tempted to just replace it with WikipediA [17:05:55] mark: You may want to dump Squid caches? [17:05:55] yes [17:06:11] s/tempted/going [17:06:19] RoanKattouw: not gonna do that this time; relatively few pages with accessible URLs in the memory cache [17:06:26] and too much pain to get all the wikis with all the languages [17:06:32] we'll see how it goes [17:06:35] OK [17:06:43] You know where the .dblist file is if you need it ;) [17:06:48] ok [17:07:18] after all, getting a fully functional monobook version for some articles is not the end of the world [17:07:25] *bastique doesn't have time to fit ridiculously long pseudo-translations of "Wikipedia" in the alloted space. [17:07:26] unlike the broken stuff we had last time ;) [17:08:02] when will the other wikipedia's be done who aren't in the current list? [17:08:30] Romaine: end of July [17:08:39] ok [17:08:58] mark: Yeah well. We have cached Monobook versions for other wikis too due to bad server resurrections yesterday [17:09:12] what is up with KSH and why are there underscores in the language. [17:09:21] How do you pronounce an underscore? [17:09:23] OK the switchover is ALL DONE [17:09:35] Someone please go verify stuff :P [17:09:55] ok so i'm putting together a spreadsheet for verification [17:09:58] OK wait [17:10:00] sync-dblist [17:10:02] give me 2 minutes [17:10:31] *Eloquence opens a lot of tabs :) [17:10:34] the logo is changed. CentralNotice and interfaces not yet [17:10:40] *bastique remembers the reason he avoided these. [17:10:44] (for be-x-old) [17:11:18] Yeah my fault [17:11:24] I *said* I needed to run sync-dblist [17:11:28] we are done [17:11:33] greets! [17:11:52] and we are not [17:12:14] WTF [17:14:11] ? [17:14:28] OK so eval.php says $wgDefaultSkin is vector on svwiki [17:14:37] *RoanKattouw thinks maybe the new .dblist file didn't make it to the Apaches [17:14:57] Nope it did [17:15:02] how much does it take to update caches? [17:15:45] I created a spreadsheet to divide and conquer the verification of the switch (for use when people are ready) [17:16:05] wizardist: I don't know what's going on exactly. Caching doesn't apply to logged-in users, at least not in Squid [17:16:15] I've assigned people as placeholders but please feel free to jump in wherever [17:16:23] http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0Aikdcg5HdSKbdDNGZjF2YjU2WjhkSUxmWW5zemxTQVE&hl=en&ui=1#gid=0 [17:16:31] mark: OK so the change is not getting picked up for some reason, even though eval.php says it is both on fenari and srv124 [17:17:10] AHA [17:17:12] There we go [17:17:19] Syncing a whitespace change to InitialiseSettings.php did it [17:17:23] heh [17:17:25] annoyin [17:17:26] g [17:17:29] Yeah [17:17:34] I should've run sync-dblist before, not after [17:17:50] Alright everyone, sorry for messing around so much, we are all switched over now [17:17:58] looking .. [17:18:31] ...and no CentralNotice for unlogged users. and no post-release CentralNotice for logged in. When will it be shown? [17:18:31] svwiki is working for me now [17:18:52] can people log what they're seeing on the spreadsheet? [17:19:04] howief: Post-release Centralnotice? (per wizardist ) [17:19:21] howief: "We're sorry, roan.kattouw@gmail.com does not have permission to access this spreadsheet." [17:19:23] howief: give me access to the spreadsheet [17:19:30] Or just make it public [17:19:34] p.selitskas@gmail.com, already sent the request [17:19:42] it should be open [17:19:49] can you try again? [17:19:59] yep, now it is [17:20:04] great [17:20:05] thanks [17:20:07] what's happening? I see Vector skin and v2.0 logo on uk.wikipedia, which is a Phase V project. Neither our community was informed nor any comment pages were created. I even don't mention that we haven't translated interface at translatewiki and fixed our scripts for Vector [17:20:58] NickK: ukwiki was on the list, no idea why [17:21:07] Eloquence: Complaints that ukwiki was wrongly switched over, see above [17:21:24] yo logo uploaded [17:21:31] why& [17:21:41] it's still Vector [17:21:51] ksh logo uploaded [17:21:54] NickK: Eloquence made the list of wikis to switch to Vector AFAIK, waiting for him to respond [17:22:10] howief made the WP list [17:22:17] lemme check the localization data [17:22:26] and message allowing to return to monobook is in Russian, not in Ukrainian [17:22:42] ah, translatewiki is down. sweet. [17:22:48] and sitenotice in english [17:22:54] what's happening? [17:23:09] frp uploaded, using "WikipediA" rather than the unbelievably long version they had. [17:23:36] ping howief [17:23:41] Sitenotice is in English on svwiki (Swedish) as well [17:23:51] NickK: yeah. I first suppose you to have Russian as fackball [17:23:53] NickK: What's happening is we switched over some 83 wikis to Vector just now [17:23:55] let's see [17:23:57] shit. fallback* [17:24:06] ukwiki was actually on the phase IV list since it was over 80% translated [17:24:29] http://usability.wikimedia.org/wiki/Releases/Default_Switch/Phase_IV_projects [17:24:35] wizardist: Try viewing be-x-old as a logged-in user? [17:24:45] RoanKattouw: tried. sure [17:24:58] what's happening? I see Vector skin and v2.0 logo on uk.wikipedia, which is a Phase V project. Neither our community was informed nor any comment pages were created. I even don't mention that we haven't translated interface at translatewiki and fixed our scripts for Vector [17:25:06] howief: ---^^ [17:25:08] howief, could you please return us back to phase 5 [17:25:18] we have zero preparation for it [17:25:41] howief: Give the green/red for that and it's done in 2 minutes [17:25:42] NickK: damn, it is almost two weeks of preparations were done :) [17:26:02] are the missing thigns just the comment pages? [17:26:16] NickK: if you really feel the community needs more time [17:26:20] we can roll uk back [17:26:30] hovief, we don't even have vector.css yet! [17:26:37] I don't think ukwiki had any translations completed. [17:26:47] at all [17:26:51] they were over 80%, per the translatewiki [17:27:15] NickK, howief: OK, rolling back ukwiki [17:27:18] let's roll back uk since there seem to be plenty of issues [17:27:27] ok, thanks [17:27:30] or rather, issues that we need to work out [17:27:45] thanks RoanKattouw [17:27:52] NickK, I'll work with you guys to make sure that you'll have everything translated. [17:29:04] Rollback complete [17:29:18] howief: Please pull the CentralNotice for uk and put it on the phase V list [17:30:08] nimish_g: can you pull the centralnotice for uk (if it exists - it may not) [17:30:18] RoanKattouw: rowiki seems to be stuck in monobook [17:30:19] RoanKattouw: rollback? [17:30:28] NickK: Monobook is now back on ukwiki. Anonymous users may see Vector occasionally due to caching, that'll go away over time [17:30:32] vvv: Just for ukwiki [17:30:32] You are already rolling UX back? :) [17:30:55] howief: ukwikimedia? [17:31:05] ukwiki [17:31:21] Eloquence: WFM, check you're logged in [17:31:44] nimish_g, vvv: There seems to be a CN running on ukwiki (Ukranian) [17:32:05] I am. perhaps some old pref - logged out works [17:32:16] Weird [17:32:19] RoanKattouw: yeah, it should say "wikipedia's getting a new look" with the vector skin [17:32:28] Eloquence: Try changing an unrelated preference, should update your prefs cache [17:32:36] nimish_g: i thought we weren't running any pre-notices [17:32:44] nimish_g: Yes, except that I just disabled Vector on ukwiki [17:32:55] We weren't [17:33:00] I'm talking about the post notice on ukwiki [17:33:05] Argh, supposed to update the Georgian logo... [17:33:05] RoanKattouw: ok, changed [17:33:18] *bastique should call his friend Konstantin [17:33:20] Which seems to have been translated almost nowhere BTW [17:34:09] OK, I see no obvious fubars anywhere. haven't vetted centralnotices. [17:34:23] From my 3-wiki sample, CNs are mostly untranslated [17:34:44] yes, only about 17 languages are translated [17:34:47] the rest are in english [17:35:03] The Persians are complaining. [17:35:15] I mean, people who speak Persian [17:35:22] *bastique goes to do a quick logo in Free Farsi [17:35:31] we've been having problems getting communities to translate the central notice [17:35:48] often the best way to push translations is to run an english banner :p [17:35:48] so we can do one of two things [17:36:00] Eloquence: just mentioned the first [17:36:13] or we can run the central notice only on the projects that have translated notices [17:36:19] eh, no [17:36:33] let's keep it running and update it when we get translations [17:36:42] that's the standard practice [17:36:42] fine by me [17:37:48] I should note that Casey's centralnotices often have a nice tiny "Translate" link. Perhaps that could be hacked into the current notice since it's not obvious to people where to post translations. [17:38:54] mark: what's the likelihood of folks being served monobook pages due to caching? [17:39:02] you could also find some nationalist places that *hate* being spoken to in a certain language, and run that language instead [17:39:13] *werdna can't think of a specific example [17:39:18] oh right, you want *good* ideas. [17:39:40] werdna: German on frwiki and vice versa [17:39:45] let's just run german everywhere ;) [17:39:58] I officially object to that [17:39:59] Or Frisian on nlwiki :P [17:41:27] <^demon> Or Klingon anywhere. [17:41:29] can i get some help here: [17:41:29] http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0Aikdcg5HdSKbdDNGZjF2YjU2WjhkSUxmWW5zemxTQVE&hl=en&ui=1#gid=0 [17:41:59] nimish_g: can we purge the centralnotice off the chapters wikis and wikimania wikis? they really don't make sense there [17:42:26] Eloquence, Yeah, that's probably a good idea, the link should be fairly easy to add - and heh I usually make the notices for Casey. :P [17:42:35] :) [17:42:41] I was thinking of running arabic to hewiki [17:42:55] though, to be fair, if I saw arabic *anywhere* unexpectedly, I'd just assume that the site had been hacked [17:43:08] Eloquence, howief, nimish_g: In which century are you gonna realize CN provides *central* notices, not *per-wiki* notices? There's MediaWiki:Sitenotice for that :) [17:43:30] just wait until ryan is done with his centralnotice work .. it will be magical [17:43:34] [17:43:38] lol [17:43:56] RoanKattouw: Okay, I've uploaded logos for ar, arz, & fa [17:44:11] bastique: Can you give me the URLs? [17:44:20] Put it in the etherpad? [17:44:37] Works, but please put them in a separate section or at the bottom of the existing list [17:44:42] <^demon> Eloquence: That's what was said about SUL too, and CentralAuth is certainly not magical ;-) [17:44:53] it is black magic. [17:45:22] RoanKattouw: yeah, sitenotice is fine as long as you're not doing hundreds of them at once [17:45:32] done [17:46:31] Eloquence: I don't know, I don't have the statistics [17:47:02] the percentage that we could remove from the cache was fairly low however, for a lot of overhead [17:47:22] most of the pages are hidden in the caches without the URL [17:47:36] mark: will they all expire by a certain date, or only if they are purged? [17:48:02] they will all expire within days, on edit, on explicit purge, and on shift-reload [17:48:38] whichever of those comes first [17:49:03] if it's really bad, we can decide to purge a certain sample of all our traffic [17:49:07] and get rid of our cache faster that way [17:49:12] but it would affect all wikis [17:49:19] I see. ok, thanks. [17:49:23] we cannot really do that for a hundred wikis [17:49:28] bastique: Thanks, done [17:50:54] ukwiki now has Monobook back, but still has CentralNotice in English [17:51:12] NickK: CentralNotice updates take 30 mins to propagate [17:51:18] ok [17:51:20] NickK: it takes a while to purge and change [17:51:51] RoanKattouw: manual purge can be done per instructions on http://wikitech.wikimedia.org/view/CentralNotice#Servers [17:51:56] I just see a number of complaints on our village pump [17:54:45] NickK: you should still be getting the "help us with translations" notice, unless that seems unnecessary at this point [18:03:35] hey. why did you turn on both Bugs and PO central notices? [18:03:46] it was ok some time ago [18:04:07] such weird [18:16:01] howief, AlexZ_: centralnotice for hu.wikipedia is wrong [18:16:14] http://usability.wikimedia.org/wiki/Releases/Default_Switch#Phase_IV_Deployment says [18:16:16] Valami szokatlan? Egy kis r?ncfelvarr?st v?gezt?nk a Wikip?di?n. Tudj meg t?bbet! [18:16:37] what actually appears is [18:16:38] Valami szokatlan? Egy kis r?ncfelvarr?st v?gezt?nk a Wikip?dia. Tudj meg t?bbet! [18:16:47] Wikip?di?n vs. Wikip?dia [18:16:55] the first is right [18:17:02] could you please fix this? [18:18:17] tgr, looking.. one sec [18:19:27] nimish_g, AlexZ_ - getting two centralnotices right now [18:20:31] can we turn off the "Help us .." notice until we're able to only display it in phase V projects? [18:20:52] prolly a good idea [18:22:46] tgr: updated, thanks. [18:22:52] thx [18:23:26] AlexZ_: can you flip the switch? [18:23:33] ehhh, why does nl-wiki get a site notice about vector? [18:23:40] grrrr [18:23:51] Eloquence: it's actually just 1 notice [18:23:51] nl-wiki has vector for weeks now [18:24:06] why indeed [18:24:11] Eloquence, yes it's one notice. Just allot of hackery :P [18:24:16] :) [18:24:21] please turn off all centralnotices until the banners have been fixed [18:24:23] ruwiki does, too [18:24:27] whoa, they're both showing up now [18:25:16] can we please test this a bit more before running these? it's embarrassing to have banners show up that are completely irrelevant. [18:26:10] yes, we definitely should [18:26:15] it is even running on enwp for all readers now. [18:26:18] jesus christ. [18:26:26] yep, crap [18:26:30] oh god [18:26:34] ugh [18:26:42] please do an emergency deactivation and purge. [18:26:44] ping tomaszf [18:27:46] Eloquence: fred's on it [18:27:51] thanks. [18:28:38] I have a test version of the banner running up on http://dev.donate.wikimedia.org/index.php/Main_Page [18:29:51] when we have recovered, we'll need to make sure that we have the ability to run the PO banner on all phase IV projects, the old "Help us" banner on phase V projects, and _no_ banner on phase I-III projects. I would prefer to have no banner on backstage projects (chapters, wikimania) as well. [18:30:50] more testing next time ;) [18:30:55] good plan [18:31:05] enwiki looks ok to me [18:31:18] as beautiful as ever. [18:31:35] Eloquence": it was shown on nl-wiki because nlwikimedia has Dutch language as well [18:32:08] en.wikinews still has the notice up [18:32:28] Eloquence: right now, since centralnotice doesn't do that, it's just a really long "or" statement that's controlling what's being shown where...ryan and I are working on rolling out his new centralnotice updates that allow multiple language selection so we can do this a more sensible way [18:33:52] YairRand4: did you refresh? also I think there's a CentralNotice that strategy is running on all projects [18:34:00] hey, tomorrow on pl.wiki we are planning remove sitenotice about vector and start advertise Wikimania in Gda??sk [18:34:13] strategy central notice is properly running on enwiki [18:34:15] I hope there was enough time to show that notice [18:34:35] howief: it's on almost all wikis [18:34:45] Leinad: I'm sure it's okay. You guys have had plenty of notice :) [18:35:44] nimish_g: yes, I know it's hackish. it just sucks to serve irrelevant messaging to millions of readers, so especially with hacks, we'll need to make sure they're working right. hope we get the kaldari update soon :p [18:36:01] "the kaldari update" [18:36:04] :) [18:36:07] bastique: plenty? :P in the meantime, we had only one notice about local scholarship program :) [18:36:23] guillom: sounds like a conspiracy movie [18:36:28] sounds like a Robert Ludlum book [18:36:31] bastique, heh :) [18:37:40] Leinad: He means you've been running the post-release notice for plenty of time, I think [18:37:40] Eloquence: yeah, it bothers me that this centralnotice is running on ALL wikis, even if invisible on certain projects [19:00:34] hello.. I am from bnwiki.. there vector have taken effect just few minutes ago.. [19:01:18] okay... [19:02:00] but the localization text of "Notice something different? We've made a few improvements to {{SITENAME}}. Learn more." didn't appear properly [19:02:22] *vvv wonders how can one improve {{SITENAME}} [19:02:33] It's a trivial variable magic word [19:03:00] vvv: that magic name didn't cause the problem i think [19:03:15] That was a joke [19:03:25] nimish_g: Could you look into this? ----^^ [19:03:40] vvv: okay.. [19:04:49] btw, it is appearing '?????????????????????' but it should appeared '??????????????????' [19:05:11] can anybody fix it ? [19:05:31] RoanKattouw: I'm actually not sure where {{SITENAME}} is pulled from [19:05:38] It's not about {{SITENAME}} [19:05:51] It's about the bn CentralNotice translation [19:05:55] AlexZ_: you updated that last time, can you do that now? [19:06:02] Which may not have been copied from the wikipage to the CN system [19:06:04] Or sometihng [19:06:28] aaah. Yeah AlexZ_ has been doing those but I can do that... bnwiki? [19:06:35]