[10:45:09] Hello! I need help :-). Vector is currently discussed in Russian Wikipedia, and I need some information on how the Usability Team explored users' preferences of Vector vs Monobook. [12:16:50] Medeyko, what do you mean? [12:18:29] I mean that after Vector was implemented, the Usability Team explored feedback from the wikimedia users. Is there any information how did they do that? [12:19:08] As far as I understand, the Team explored number of users who pressed "take me back"? [12:19:21] They considered statistics (how many users switched back to monobook) [12:19:21] yes [12:20:01] Thanks! Do you know where could I look their analysis of this statistics? [12:20:17] and they received input through the special page; they even published a spreadsheet with lots of comments. The problem is that they had to use machine translation for non-English projects. [12:20:32] Moreover, there are ambassadors who should report local feedback. [12:20:45] [[Special:PrefStats]] e [[usability:]] [12:21:27] I think vvv said something about him translating comments from russian users [12:21:32] not machine-translating them [12:22:00] (YEs, I'm in contact with Victor. It was him who pointed me here :-) ) [12:22:40] I believe there were some neat stats, aside from PrefStats [12:23:25] But where could I see there spreadshit with a lots of comments? I haven't found them :-( [12:23:59] I would explain why I need this. [12:25:03] I wish to explain to the Russian community that the Usability Team is a professional one, and conducted some in-depth research. [12:25:26] So I need links to proofs of this statement. [12:26:01] Laaknor, yes, when some abassador is available the team has more info. [12:30:46] Uhm, I hate wikis without categories, I'm populating http://usability.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Statistics [12:35:56] Medeyko, did you read this? http://blog.wikimedia.org/2009/how-is-the-usability-beta-doing/ [12:40:56] Yes, thanks! I felt that I have seen this, but couldn't remember where. [12:41:04] Medeyko, the spreadsheets I referred to are here: http://usability.wikimedia.org/wiki/Beta_Feedback_Survey/User_Comments (ru.wiki: https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0Amn4DEPLbG-ndHF1ZDVraTg5a3JjTG5Jd2tlZ0pZbnc&hl=en#gid=0 ) [12:43:34] Medeyko, what are common objections on ru.wiki? On search bar: http://techblog.wikimedia.org/2010/06/usability-why-did-we-move-the-search-box/ And on the small number of users for live experiences, there was a nice blog post by Erik Moeller I can't find now. :-/ [12:43:50] Wow! Great! It's what I need! [12:45:10] Nemo, maybe you mean this: http://usability.wikimedia.org/wiki/Usability,_Experience,_and_Progress_Study ? [12:46:44] Objections mostly "I don't like it!" :-) [12:47:32] I think that Victor will summarize the objections accurately later (Victor, am I right?). [12:47:47] Medeyko: I hope I'll have enough time to do it [12:47:49] I will assist him (if he needs it). [12:48:00] *you [12:48:04] Anyway, let's wait till poll's end [12:49:36] Yes. I will post the links there, and won't enter further discussions to avoid tampering it. [12:53:01] Ah! Yet another question. Could anyone point me where professional background of the Team members is described? [13:04:49] Medeyko: http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Staff#User_Experience_Programs ? [13:04:52] Medeyko, on usability study perhaps I meant this http://markmail.org/message/q6te35dtnpt3sb3k bbut I thought there was something longer. [13:05:04] Look for hiring announcements on foundation-l [13:05:08] There new staffers announcements on fpoundation-l and WikimediaAnnounce [13:05:13] Exactly [21:41:30] Dear colleagues, there's an interesting question in ru-wiki discussion about Vector. Why search box was moved to left in right-to-left scipts editions? Eric's explanation suggests, that it may be reasonable keep it in right part of the screen even for right-to-left scrips. [21:42:34] This is a tentative reductionad absurdum. [21:42:44] (reductio ad absurdum) [21:43:57] In RTL languages you need to have main tabs, logo and sidebar on the right, so you can't put the search bar there. [21:44:23] Moreover, it's likely that in RTL languages the statistics were a bit different. [21:47:29] Do they also have screllbar at left instead of right? [21:50:39] (Sorry for nit picking, pesonally I'm sure that you are absolutely right.) [22:04:47] Medeyko, browser scroll bar? I don't know, is this relevant? [22:05:11] in RTL websites scrollbar is on the left in Microsoft Internet and on the right in Firefox [22:05:19] i prefer it on the right [22:07:26] Nemo_bis - yes, relevant, as Erik wites here: http://techblog.wikimedia.org/2010/06/usability-why-did-we-move-the-search-box/ [22:07:32] "As summarized in this research paper, several usability studies have pointed out a key advantage of navigational elements being placed on the right: it gives immediate access to the browser scrollbar. This is particularly valuable when a) scrolling up and down a list of search results, b) scrolling up and down an article you???ve just called up for information." [22:07:41] aharoni - thanks! [22:09:29] i actually sat at the meeting in the Standards Institute of Israel where a bunch of engineers tried to decide whether the placement of the scrollbar should standartized [22:09:44] they decided not to decide [22:10:08] not to standardize. to just let software developers decide. which is probably a good thing. [22:11:27] anyway, Eric's explanation is a bit TLDR, but i suppose that people who are used to reading an RTL language may look at a website differently [22:12:20] i was the "Vector ambassador" in he.wiki, and there were no significant complaints about the search box. most of the complaints were about the editing toolbar. [22:17:32] It's clear now. Thanks!