[12:56:47] <wm-bridgebot>	 [telegram] <Jarek> Anybody knows if there’s an easy way to look up the name of the project and language of the project in lua based on sitelink on wikidata? The 95% solution of splitting the sitelink like “enwiki” into “en” and “wiki” has so many exceptions...
[15:41:55] <wm-bridgebot>	 [telegram] <Auregann> are you on the Wikidata Telegram channel? You could ask there as well :) (re @Jarek: Anybody knows if there’s an easy way to look up the name of the project and language of the project in lua based on sitelink on wikidata? The 95% solution of splitting the sitelink like “enwiki” into “en” and “wiki” has so many exceptions...)
[15:46:29] <wm-bridgebot>	 [telegram] <jhsoby> I did that in https://wikisource.org/wiki/Module:Plain_sister (which is unfinished unfortunately). I think I caught all the exceptions with this line:
[15:46:30] <wm-bridgebot>	 [telegram] <jhsoby>         if mw.ustring.sub( j.site, -#'wiki' ) == 'wiki' and j.site ~= 'wikidatawiki' and j.site ~= 'commonswiki' and j.site ~= 'specieswiki' and j.site ~= 'metawiki' and j.site ~= 'mediawikiwiki' then (re @Jarek: Anybody knows if there’s an easy way to look up the name of the project and language of the project in lua based on sitelink on wikidata? The 95% solution of splitting the sitelink like “enwi
[15:47:18] <wm-bridgebot>	 [telegram] <jhsoby> I did that in https://wikisource.org/wiki/Module:Plain_sister (which is unfinished unfortunately). I think I caught all the exceptions with this line:
[15:47:19] <wm-bridgebot>	 [telegram] <jhsoby> if mw.ustring.sub( j.site, -#'wiki' ) == 'wiki' and j.site ~= 'wikidatawiki' and j.site ~= 'commonswiki' and j.site ~= 'specieswiki' and j.site ~= 'metawiki' and j.site ~= 'mediawikiwiki' then (re @Jarek: Anybody knows if there’s an easy way to look up the name of the project and language of the project in lua based on sitelink on wikidata? The 95% solution of splitting the sitelink like “enwiki” in
[16:11:58] <wm-bridgebot>	 [telegram] <mos6581> btw, there is now a test matrix instance at https://wikimedia.riot.im/
[16:15:33] <wm-bridgebot>	 [telegram] <Yetkin> Could you please post the link to that group? (re @Auregann: are you on the Wikidata Telegram channel? You could ask there as well :))
[16:16:42] <wm-bridgebot>	 [telegram] <jhsoby> I added you to it 😊 (re @Yetkin: Could you please post the link to that group?)
[16:17:06] <wm-bridgebot>	 [telegram] <Yetkin> thanks
[16:17:23] <wm-bridgebot>	 [telegram] <Auregann> Invite link to the Wikidata group:
[16:17:23] <wm-bridgebot>	 [telegram] <Auregann> https://t.me/joinchat/AZriqUj5UagVMHXYzfZFvA
[16:22:12] <wm-bridgebot>	 [telegram] <mos6581> are these groups here official?
[16:54:12] <wm-bridgebot>	 [telegram] <Auregann> What does "official" mean to you?
[16:55:26] <wm-bridgebot>	 [telegram] <Auregann> What do you mean by "official"? (re @mos6581: are these groups here official?)
[17:08:18] <wm-bridgebot>	 [telegram] <mos6581> like official wikimedia chat groups. (re @Auregann: What do you mean by "official"?)
[17:08:58] <wm-bridgebot>	 [telegram] <mos6581> because i wonder why they are using proprietary servers, but as far as i know they are testing matrix right now (mozilla does use matrix for conversation groups now)
[17:21:21] <wm-bridgebot>	 [telegram] <Auregann> I'm not going to engage into a discussion about using proprietary tools :) And just mention that community discussions tend to happen spontaneously, on tools that people use and are used to. Depending on people and projects, it can be wikis, pads, mailing-lists, Facebook, Telegram, IRC, Matrix... This channel for example is bridged with IRC.
[17:23:39] <Reedy>	 Who are they?
[17:25:46] <wm-bridgebot>	 [telegram] <mos6581> sure, but an non profit organisation can help providing free possibilities where they have their official groups. the point is that you can contribute without needing facebook, etc.
[17:27:09] <wm-bridgebot>	 [telegram] <mos6581> maybe they? https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T186061 (re @wmtelegram_bot: [irc] <Reedy> Who are they?)
[17:27:29] <Reedy>	 That task is over 2 years old
[17:27:44] <Reedy>	 And has hardly had any action
[17:28:28] <Reedy>	 Also, per the foundation guidelines, FOSS is preferred/recommended, not a necessity
[17:28:56] <Reedy>	 (while I do agree on the whole it's a good thing to strive for)
[17:30:15] <wm-bridgebot>	 [telegram] <mos6581> yep, but matrix did a step forward and mozilla found it to be most useful in its evaluation of chat systems replacing its irc-serveres, so this for sure is somethine wikimedia can test. (btw you can also bridge it to irc,)
[17:30:34] <Reedy>	 Aren't Mozilla also using Slack though?
[17:30:42] <Reedy>	 Bridged into Matrix or something
[17:30:46] <wm-bridgebot>	 [telegram] <mos6581> they are changing to matrix
[17:30:56] <wm-bridgebot>	 [telegram] <mos6581> AFAIK
[17:31:00] <wm-bridgebot>	 [telegram] <Maarten> The WMF is currently a Google house when it comes to the standard office software
[17:31:27] <wm-bridgebot>	 [telegram] <mos6581> However, I was just asking if this is an official chat, so I guess I got my answer. ;)
[17:32:33] <Reedy>	 It's hard to define official when it's elsewhere
[17:32:38] <Reedy>	 Like #raspberrypi for example
[17:32:39] <Reedy>	 >Unofficial RaspberryPi IRC channel but "Blessed" by the Foundation as the ONE channel.
[17:32:45] <wm-bridgebot>	 [telegram] <mos6581> that was the mozilla news: https://matrix.org/blog/2019/12/19/welcoming-mozilla-to-matrix
[17:33:18] <Reedy>	 https://wiki.mozilla.org/NDA-Slack
[17:35:15] <wm-bridgebot>	 [telegram] <mos6581> well they just announced it some month ago so they still will go on with slack for a while but in the long term change to matrix i guess. they also had their irc running while many changed to slack.
[17:35:43] <wm-bridgebot>	 [telegram] <mos6581> but since the briding from matrix to irc works will, maybe matrix can save irc, let's see.
[17:36:23] <Reedy>	 you say that like IRC is dying
[17:38:11] <wm-bridgebot>	 [telegram] <mos6581> well for programmers it still might be in use, but if you go to a random wikipedia chat channel you'll have the same 5-6 guys hanging around, so yes you can say that it is if it's not about programming.
[17:38:21] <wm-bridgebot>	 [telegram] <jhsoby> You say that like IRC is alive 😜 (re @wmtelegram_bot: [irc] <Reedy> you say that like IRC is dying)
[17:38:26] <wm-bridgebot>	 [telegram] <mos6581> lol
[17:38:42] <Reedy>	 I'm in plenty of channels not about programming
[17:38:44] <Reedy>	 It's active
[17:38:53] <wm-bridgebot>	 [telegram] <mos6581> guess it also depends on which channel officials use.
[17:39:13] <wm-bridgebot>	 [telegram] <mos6581> yeah it's active. with the same few people. hardly new people getting there.
[17:39:29] <Reedy>	 There are many other networks than Freenode
[17:39:39] <wm-bridgebot>	 [telegram] <mos6581> the channels that got new people usually were channels that got bridget into some matrix or telegram group.
[17:39:45] <Reedy>	 Not really
[17:39:56] <Reedy>	 The #mediawiki channel gets a steady stream of non regulars
[17:40:51] <wm-bridgebot>	 [telegram] <mos6581> you mean the guys asking a question and leaving an hour later before anyone replied? 😃
[17:41:01] <wm-bridgebot>	 [telegram] <jhsoby> most of the IRC channels I'm in are totally dead (like #wikipedia-xx) now and have been for years. 10–12 years ago they were very active, but now there's maybe one "hello" in a week, and no response. The exception being the tech channels of course
[17:41:33] <Reedy>	 No one is paid to be in #mediawiki to respond. So if people who can help are active, they help
[17:41:48] <Reedy>	 Usually those that leave without getting an answer don't wait very long
[17:41:53] <wm-bridgebot>	 [telegram] <mos6581> i'm hanging out in #mediawiki and there is not much going on there...
[17:41:55] <Reedy>	 There is no SLA for the support. No one has to do anything
[17:42:45] <Reedy>	 Just because people aren't actively talking doesn't mean it's dead either
[17:45:43] <wm-bridgebot>	 [telegram] <mos6581> lol, well... ;)
[17:48:03] <wm-bridgebot>	 [telegram] <mos6581> IRC will still have it's place, but if you want to collect other people you need something like telegram, riot(matrix) etc.
[17:50:10] <wm-bridgebot>	 [telegram] <mos6581> but do we agree that usenet is dead? ;)
[17:50:33] <Reedy>	 Nope
[17:51:14] <wm-bridgebot>	 [telegram] <mos6581> ok now i can really range your thoughts 😃
[17:51:23] <Reedy>	 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usenet#Usenet_traffic_changes
[17:51:31] <Reedy>	 2020 Jan - more traffic than ever
[17:52:05] <Reedy>	 something moving 60TB a day is not dead
[17:55:24] <wm-bridgebot>	 [telegram] <mos6581> it's dead as a discussion platform. it might be used for file sharing, ok.
[17:55:49] <wm-bridgebot>	 [telegram] <Alex> You kidding? We use it all the time
[17:55:59] <wm-bridgebot>	 [telegram] <Alex> Oh Usenet not IRC, sorry
[17:56:42] <wm-bridgebot>	 [telegram] <mos6581> there are other graphics with users having its peak around 2001 and then declining afterwards. also internet providers are not offering usenet-servers like they did 20 years ago.
[17:57:04] <wm-bridgebot>	 [telegram] <tehreedy> DMCA is fun ;)
[17:57:31] <wm-bridgebot>	 [telegram] <mos6581> so maybe it has another purpose nowadays. but i'd like it if it still is alive. what are you using usenet for?
[17:57:42] <wm-bridgebot>	 [telegram] <mos6581> (will be back later)
[17:59:26] <wm-bridgebot>	 [telegram] <Jan_ainali> As in the percentage of internet providers offering usenet-servers are lower, or the absolute number of internet providers in the world offering usenet-servers are lower? (re @mos6581: there are other graphics with users having its peak around 2001 and then declining afterwards. also internet providers are not offering usenet-servers like they did 20 years ago.)
[19:34:16] <wm-bridgebot>	 [telegram] <Maarten> Most providers would include Usenet in their standard services like email and a homepage. At least in the Netherlands and I think most of Europe providers dropped it
[19:37:59] <wm-bridgebot>	 [telegram] <mos6581> exactly (re @Maarten: Most providers would include Usenet in their standard services like email and a homepage. At least in the Netherlands and I think most of Europe providers dropped it)
[19:38:58] <wm-bridgebot>	 [telegram] <mos6581> i had the graphics of the users of de.* hierarchy in the usenet. the place where discussions etc. took place. there was a peak 2001 and then numbers were declining. of course news croups still have posts but 90% are spam.
[19:40:08] <wm-bridgebot>	 [telegram] <mos6581> depending on the group...  de.comm.infosystems.www.authoring.misc is ok, but others like de.sci.biologie just have mostly spam and useless traffic
[21:14:15] <wm-bridgebot>	 [telegram] <Jarek> Thanks Lea, I did not know that there was telegram Wikidata group (re @Auregann: Invite link to the Wikidata group:
[21:14:16] <wm-bridgebot>	 [telegram] <Jarek> https://t.me/joinchat/AZriqUj5UagVMHXYzfZFvA)
[21:15:57] <s6581>	 Reedy: ok hope i didn't distrub this channel too much with offtopic. but now i wonder which usenet-servers you are using why. maybe i'd check.
[21:29:27] <Reedy>	 I didn't say I was using them. I said it wasn't dead :)
[21:47:25] <wm-bridgebot>	 [telegram] <Jarek> I did something similar in https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Module:Interwiki and https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Module:Wikidata_label , parsing site IDs to split them into language and project, but there are so many exceptions, like language of "bat_smgwiki" is "sgs" or language of  "be_x_old" is "be-tarask". Lately someone "improved" Module:Wikidata_label 's _sitelinks function trying to handle all 
[21:47:26] <wm-bridgebot>	 [telegram] <Jarek> if mw.ustring.sub( j.site, -#'wiki' ) == 'wiki' and j.site ~= 'wikidatawiki' and j.site ~= 'commonswiki' and j.site ~= 'specieswiki' and j.site ~= 'metawiki' and j.site ~= 'mediawikiwiki' then)