[00:44:00] @CVT https://www.bluepageswiki.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/120.28.225.235 [01:14:39] <.labster> So they created a page, then asked another user if it should be deleted? [01:15:39] [1/2] kinda confusing tbh [01:15:40] [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/443926951292567562/1239747927832924311/image.png?ex=66440cbb&is=6642bb3b&hm=413f56bcc2940ff1f3b34ac236f72b2eaa9b5232f7ee63d20bf4ddd44923ed67& [01:16:02] basically answering their own question? [01:18:47] <.labster> It looks like local admins need to deal with that one imo [01:20:51] Seems like the right approach [01:29:38] Local admins don't really seem to do anything about vandalism and spam [01:29:58] This wiki gets a lot of trolls and the local wiki admins don't seem to really notice [01:30:04] Yea [01:30:34] <.labster> Maybe some other users need to be nominated for local admin? [01:31:13] @koreirose on this point, is there an activity community base? [01:31:17] or is it just admins + spam [01:32:26] I can take a look, assuming it’s the bluepageswiki mentioned above? [01:33:30] Active community and active editors but the admins are just editors that the wiki founder trusts more and nobody does any moderating [01:33:35] Yea bluepages [01:34:21] Gotta be honest, partially off topic but it feels like a lot of the time, the admins are basically the only active editors. [01:34:49] Anywho, will take a look and see what I think, obviously just another 2c here but if people locally are interested, we could try and set up a local election [01:35:27] Sometimes they do but you have to contact them on their talk page and wait several days because they don't actually look at recent changes or the categories for deletion category, it's not the biggest issue really because it's just nonsense and spam but imo I feel like the admins themselves should be looking for that [01:35:43] Ya true [01:36:15] I would edit that wiki if I knew how but it's about recording the history of buildings and places and the only history of buildings and places I know about is in my own town which I wouldn't want to reveal for obvious reasons [01:36:45] I may look into seeing if I can just clean up the grammar and other maintenance stuff later but yeah that's not really on topic to CVT [01:42:27] cc @notaracham for thoughts here, would a Steward-organized local election be appropriate or is it probably best to let this sort itself out locally? [01:43:33] Don't have time to weigh in. [01:44:27] welp then @Stewards in general for expertise here [01:44:33] sorry for the double ping NA [03:25:30] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/443926951292567562/1239780603260440716/Screenshot_20240513-202514.png?ex=66442b29&is=6642d9a9&hm=f94cfb8cf6d581c21bf1bd241180f515c6211dbc66f6d536aa7d57ea9cce058f& [03:25:33] I feel like he makes a valid point [03:25:51] And Acnh Player's expectations are unrealistic [03:26:58] Do we have anyone here who speaks Italian and could provide a reasonably accurate translation of the pages that are being reported? [03:30:11] I have enough translation tools/language proficiency to agree that some of them merit reporting. [03:32:03] That said, some of it's harmless if coarse language. Admins are doing a decent job at cleanup so far though. [03:35:53] It is my opinion that untargeted slurs that are obviously sarcastic/ironic and don't target anyone in particular shouldn't fall under hate speech [03:36:15] imo slurs = promotion of said hate [03:36:42] using the word itself carelessly diminishes the meaning of the word, allowing it to be used freely without the same caution [03:37:02] which inherently causes more usage and thus further hate/discrimination [03:40:00] Is there any evidence of this actually happening? [03:41:25] Absolutely, society is my witness [03:48:39] That's just vague [03:48:44] What in society? [03:49:01] Just personal experiences are subjective and anecdotal [03:49:24] I'm not really debating this - slurs are banned in this server and on Miraheze and will stay banned. [03:49:29] It's not up for discussion. [03:59:21] [1/6] > When discussing people, organizations, communities, and groups, wikis must make sure that their content is a meaningful source of commentary on the subjects they cover and substantiated by independent referencing where appropriate. A wiki is considered to provide meaningful commentary if it provides neutral factual coverage of its subjects, reasoned opinionated commentary or advo [03:59:22] [2/6] cacy, or a clearly identifiable comedic or satirical purpose. [03:59:22] [3/6] > [03:59:22] [4/6] > Exceptions for comedy and satire do not cover language which promotes violence or hatred against people or groups of people based on factors such as physical appearance, ethnicity, race, religion (or lack thereof), culture, caste, social class, sexual orientation, gender, sex, disability, age, nationality, mental or physical disability, or other marginalized groups. Derogatory la [03:59:23] [5/6] nguage based on these factors is not allowed except when necessary for documentary purposes, e.g., controversy about the inclusion of derogatory terms in a book. [03:59:23] [6/6] It's open for interpretation [04:00:54] It's really not, "documentary purposes' is clear [04:00:58] Very clear [04:01:25] [1/2] > language which promotes violence or hatred against people or groups of people [04:01:25] [2/2] Depends how you define "promote" [04:01:48] Promote is and has always been broadly defined [04:01:58] To cover all hate speech [04:02:03] That's not written in policy anywhere [04:02:15] Yes, it covers hate speech, not every slur [04:03:17] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/443926951292567562/1239790110413946961/Screenshot_2024-05-13_at_9.03.14_PM.png?ex=66443404&is=6642e284&hm=118328da171c4c52e84f65bac8dffe1e69a68941b0bd2b073278941c1aa77f3e& [04:03:22] Slurs are hate speech [04:06:00] <.labster> _is happy he is no longer a mod_ [04:09:52] Google Gemini/ChatGPT is not a reliable source [04:17:39] [1/2] Aight here's UWisconsin [04:17:40] [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/443926951292567562/1239793730253488218/Screenshot_2024-05-13_at_9.17.33_PM.png?ex=66443763&is=6642e5e3&hm=0d2f49eb1001404d9adc8a2e58176bf07ad908fcf15aa08979cb903090aa1482& [04:18:00] Anyway - as I said, I'm not arguing this with you. What's policy is policy and it's not up for debate. Full stop. [04:20:10] Brandon, let's cool off on this. Collei, if you want slurs unbanned, form up an RfC about it and expect it to be roundly shut down as a snowclose. There isn't an appetite for it. [04:20:46] Debate in this venue doesn't accomplish anything. [06:43:39] dont trust ai with ANYTHING period [06:46:48] I helped write some of this clause so happy to talk about the intent of it seperately with you [06:47:48] Alright sure I'd like to talk tomorrow though, it's almost midnight here, just checking on something rn before bed [06:52:39] It is mostly a reasonable person test though. Some examples of what you think should/shouldn't be an issue would be good. [11:12:47] [1/2] I think we shouldn't poke the bees nest to see where the tolerance of the community is. You could find yourself stung. [11:12:47] [2/2] Just follow the flow of the community. [12:19:45] Hey @rodejong [12:20:05] Hey [12:20:27] Whazzup [12:24:45] Humans [12:25:37] Indeed