[00:44:06] Only transition weather I particularly don't care for is snow, but not quite melted or slush [00:44:18] in other words an inevitable morning of ice or several [00:44:45] dmehus You can disregard the question I left on the #cvt channel. [01:46:29] Never knew @k6ka was an English Wikipedia admin [01:51:12] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615786602454581249/929552858217594910/IMG_7344.png [01:51:24] He has the weirdest statuses [01:52:12] Ahh, I've been making a mockup of my wiki site [01:52:17] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615786602454581249/929553128586625104/unknown-24.png [01:52:26] I think its turning out good so far [01:52:32] 😄 [01:55:44] @Bukkit, yes and @MJL is a Scots Wikipedia administrator :) [02:02:30] MJL? Ah yes, I've seen him lurking on the Wikimedia server. [02:04:08] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615786602454581249/929556112993304658/Screenshot_20220108-230245-984.png [02:04:10] Very clear the scope. I accept. [02:06:10] Doug, I sent you a friend request on discord therefore you are not really active [02:08:08] :DoneMH: Accepted perfect; clear scope [02:09:26] Request approved. Pretty good. Purpose and description are a bit vague, but there is nonetheless a clear enough purpose, scope, and/or topic here. Please be advised this approval does not preclude other wikis from being approved and created that share this topic, provided they aren't 95-100% content forks of your wiki. Please ensure your wiki complies with all aspects of Content Policy at all times. [02:25:52] Looks like Agent Isai declined it? [02:25:58] looking [02:26:11] It's a perfect request! [02:26:13] /s [02:26:35] yeah no idea why Bukkit said that :P [02:26:56] dmehus: joke I'm guessing [02:27:00] Jooking doug [02:27:34] oh [02:27:45] @YellowFrogger, but is AmongUsYellow your alt? [02:27:50] Agent: oh [02:28:29] no no [02:29:20] Among us is a game, hence the character colors [03:21:33] oh [03:26:26] Doug, can you explain more in depth why my edit set itself to peanut [03:35:05] @YellowFrogger, well, for one thing, it wasn't "vandalism," but also, you don't really need to parrot something I've already said. Not sure if [[w:WP:PARROT]] exists, but if it does, it could be more that than WP:PEANUT [03:35:05] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:PARROT [03:38:16] I'll probably try to improve so I don't make these types of comments again. [03:43:56] @YellowFrogger, yeah, that's great. 👍 [18:14:23] dmehus You around for something? [18:15:36] 🤔 anyone else think the James Webb telescope has the miraheze logo in it?😅 [18:16:09] O.o [18:17:53] DarkMatterMan4500, sure, can you go on IRC when you're around? [18:18:23] I'll be home soon, so I might not see the message when I hop on. [18:21:39] Also dmehus, I came to tell you that I have filed another report, and it's about The Parkee, again. [18:30:14] once you remove the second layer of petals....😆 [18:30:14] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615786602454581249/929804272244244520/James_Webb.png [18:37:35] the Miraheze telescope :surprised: [18:39:08] dmehus I'm on IRC now. [18:39:08] [tell] darkmatterman450: 2022-01-09 - 17:21:16UTC tell darkmatterman450 DM me when you're around [18:47:43] Miraheze logo is a honeycomb [18:48:56] @Mystic NASA stole our copyright! We should sue for like 10% of their budget in damages 😄 [18:49:51] There are another 50,000 honeycombs in the world, this form is very common. [18:54:11] https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/User:YellowFrogger/Miraheze_staff_by_number_of_edits [18:54:15] [url] User:YellowFrogger/Miraheze staff by number of edits - Miraheze Meta | meta.miraheze.org [18:54:36] Am I right? Are these all the staff? [18:55:32] Historically speaking, Staff = all SRE members so you'd need to include everyone in this page: [[Staff]] [18:55:32] https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Staff [18:55:36]

https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Staff [18:55:36] [url] Tech:SRE Volunteers - Miraheze Meta | meta.miraheze.org [18:55:55] When the term Staff was used, it never included Stewards/Global Sysops [18:56:04] but the term isn't used anymore to refer to SRE [18:57:56] Damn it. I had even added their home country flags [18:58:50] I mean, you can rename it to say "Miraheze Stewards, Global Sysops and SRE members by number of edits" [19:00:14] that's what i'm going to do, but only admins can move it without creating a redirect [19:03:33] The term staff isn't used because we aren't staff [19:03:52] Also that's an EU flag [19:04:00] UK long left the EU [19:04:29] @YellowFrogger [19:05:49] I know, I'm inclined to move this page [19:14:22] sadly 😦 [19:45:59] dmehus Do you have time to check your PMs at this very moment? [20:03:31] darn, I'm not a staff :p [20:12:54] darkmatterman450, sure will do [20:13:48] Staff is a horrible term, and I will likely update that to replace it with a disambiguation page that points to relevant pages [20:14:02] Thank you, as I've been trying to point you in the direction of The Parkee on the `closinglogosgroupwiki`. [20:14:14] darkmatterman450, ok [20:14:31] The details can be seen on #cvt anyway. [20:15:33] Hey [20:16:08] @Hypercane Hi there. [20:17:46] Staff is unfortunately a popular term, especially for people unfamiliar with how Miraheze tries to detach itself from it [20:18:07] Yeah unfortunately [20:19:22] And in some cases to try and dissociate can be a bit of a problem, ie, literally anyone can be a volunteer, but obviously when one volunteer has jurisdiction to be an arbiter on any wiki, another is a technical manager, another is the treasurer for the platform/trust and safety (a traditionally staff role and in our case still fully appointed/largely non public in its details), one creates wikis and most cannot do any of [20:19:22] those things and maybe just volunteer a bit of time on Meta, it can be a bit confusing., [20:20:21] If anything Miraheze may have decentralized too far, where there are many groups to perform staff-y tasks but insist on a strong division that results in people being bounced between 'departments' (another 'staff-y' paradigm) and a line of ambiguity between the random volunteer and someone with jurisdiction to do what is needed. [20:20:48] If the intent is to be fully communal in focus and operation, Miraheze has some distance to go; at the same time it must avoid hurting usability in its efforts to decentralize. [20:22:08] Agreed, just consolidate all power in SRE and disband Stewards/CVT, all Meta roles including sysop and wiki creator and T&S/Board :P [20:22:12] that'll fix everything [20:22:25] Sometimes I wonder if I was more active and had more free time here would I have been like a global sysop by now. And the answer, was probably yes. [20:22:40] probably tbh [20:22:51] I'm sure anyone could be if they fulfilled the right conditions to be one [20:22:54] It's not too late, I just don't know where to start. [20:23:03] sometimes [20:23:20] Agent If that was for real, that would potentially destroy what Miraheze is valued for. [20:23:32] Yeah [20:23:42] darkmatterman450: Do remember that I'm sarcastic 90% of the times :) [20:23:45] so that was a joke [20:24:01] lol, getting rid of all the other roles [20:24:14] fun [20:24:16] Agent, I knew you were joking. I most of the time take some jokes like it's actually going to happen. [20:24:26] Great! [20:24:52] Personally, my approach is to somewhat detach from GS/previously CVT's exclusively CVT qualification, and focus on the GS capacity for global outreach and crisis resolution - largely leveraging the position as a forward responsibility. So where you may not catch much for CVT, you can still act in a global operative way (finding wikis and attempting to resolve issues as a user), getting the trust of the Meta community and [20:24:52] portions of the global one, and using that to leverage a request to become GS. [20:25:26] Ah okay [20:25:29] I think that's the underexploited aspect of what a GS can be; aside from just performing locks they have a jurisdictional responsibility to lighten the workload of Stewards, and in my own interpretation to also reduce the need for them to be involved in the first place. [20:26:11] I know I have the experience of a local admin, heck I've been one for 8 years now on one wiki. [20:26:28] The mechanical aspect of a GS isn't much really [20:27:02] true [20:27:07] like anything I guess [20:27:37] It's the trust of basic competence + trust in crisis handling; one's your ability to be a good GS in routine and the other is where you're actually tested, when the unexpected happens. So becoming one is getting faith for those things, staying one I think is being open to both avenues [20:28:19] Interesting, that does make sense honestly. [20:32:06] I know rights are not everything, and I learned that a long time ago. But that does not mean I can't have goals for myself. [20:35:41] There's nothing wrong in aspiring to have hats if you actually plan to use them and desire to truly help others [20:36:03] From my perspective, I would enthusiastically endorse @Hypercane for Global Sysop tomorrow. He's trusted, competent, shows incredible capacity for learning, strong analytical skills, and been around here along time. His chief drawback is his relative inactivity, globally and on Meta [20:36:22] so I would suggest re-engaging on Meta as a patroller or as a wiki creator [20:36:46] Thanks, that is actually a good idea too Doug. [20:36:56] np :) [20:37:57] Eh, I might re-request WC only when I engage in some relative time as a patroller first. [20:38:06] I think it would fail right now otherwise. [20:38:29] Yeah, it probably would [20:38:54] I was once a pretty good WC when I handled the requests, so I know have the capability at least. [20:38:54] We have many new users who do not know of your track record so lack of recent activity would SNOWball your request [20:39:31] True, they would accuse me of likely hat collecting, even though that wouldn't be the case. [20:39:36] Regardless [20:39:40] I will help in some other way for now [20:42:25] Imo rights are all about what they do to compliment what you would already do [20:42:48] in that respect I sometimes question the function of patroller as a unique 'hat' and function when its principles can be accomplished by any user [20:43:33] I think engagement globally, particularly for developing or problematic wikis would be a very strong aspect for any new global sysops to develop [20:48:54] The ability to patrol others edits used to be part of the autopatrolled toolset before being split into a new group: https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Requests_for_Comment/Autopatroller_group_split [20:49:00] [url] Requests for Comment/Autopatroller group split - Miraheze Meta | meta.miraheze.org [20:49:24] I remember that happening. [20:49:42] Honestly, I guess it made sense [20:58:18] Patrol marks imo are a very, very minor function [20:58:52] Perhaps I'm inaccurate, but it's my experience between myself and other users that things tend to be inevitably checked out anyway by various regulars, and what one patroller says okay for another might disagree with [21:05:54] Hopefully the 14th of this month comes soon. [21:07:04] Should arrive in roughly 5 days :p [21:07:05] I'm even requesting renounce [21:07:16] Let's pray [21:07:22] lol [21:07:40] Really [21:07:48] I do not entirely dismiss the possibility of a time warp of course [21:08:14] Very slow server, 10 minutes to load [21:08:18] Hm? Sorry if I did something wrong. Just trying to contribute to the conversation. [21:08:32] To load what? [21:08:42] All requests should timeout after 1 minute [21:08:46] s'all good [21:09:16] s'all, new word to add to my dictionary :P [21:09:17] 10 minutes is a stretch, but I have had some fairly routine tasks take long enough that I just decided to multitask tabs again >.> [21:09:35] Playing with my barrier? [21:09:38] Yeah it did a 502 when trying to publish my edit. [21:09:40] Probably not good for stability to tell the server to do 6 things at once instead of 1, but meh [21:09:49] It still went through somehow [21:09:51] what barrier? [21:10:00] Usually when that kind of error turns up the content isn't actually lost [21:10:06] Ah [21:10:09] It's only in the most recent spell I've had it actually wipe data [21:10:11] my language [21:10:18] language [21:10:25] ouch [21:10:41] That would suck, especially if you made a large edit. [21:10:42] no, not at all [21:10:48] I've long learned from forums that anything worth saving should be pasted in a doc before committing anyway 😛 [21:11:00] That's a smart idea honestly [21:11:12] just play russian roulette and hope that refreshing does the trick [21:11:13] lol [21:11:35] might as well just queue up several edits at once [21:11:44] then when the server catches up it'll probably do them all finally >.> [21:12:40] I'm not sad about life [21:13:44] have you tried creating accounts "forcibly" from a wiki? [21:13:46] it's cool [21:13:50] wot [21:13:50] and relax [21:14:07] Can't say I've had the experience of forcing accounts out of wikis [21:14:14] he means force attaching CentrlaAuth accounts by assigning imported edits [21:14:21] Import wikipedia pages with full history, hence if you see account creation log it creates multiple accounts automatically [21:14:23] I [21:14:40] I think [21:14:41] idk [21:14:47] Easy way to unnecessarily clutter up your ListUsers :P [21:14:58] another reason why I prefer to homebrew things rather than import them from a conglomerate that's usually much too big for what I actually need [21:14:58] yeah [21:15:01] YellowFrogger, that should generally not be done unless you have a legitimate need for that template [21:15:10] Spambots did this without the owners' permission [21:15:15] Spambots did this without the owners' permission [21:15:21] Very unfortunate, then [21:15:39] It's one reason why having `centralauth-local` be an unrestricted user right post MW 1.36 did not make sense, to me [21:15:49] There's even ClueBot on my wiki, wtf [21:16:03] probably someone created a local ClueBot account :) [21:16:14] not necessarily the operator of ClueBot on enwiki [21:16:23] The glitch of import. doug [21:16:42] Ah, the English Wikipedia - one wiki I can honestly say I'm intimidated by [21:16:49] You might accidentally frame yourself in CheckUser if you import and assign edits to accounts so do be careful :P [21:16:59] oh dear [21:17:10] uh yikes [21:17:13] Me? [21:17:24] See, that can get ugly very quickly [21:17:28] Agent, yep that's true :) [21:17:45] dmehus, when you get the chance could you please check your PMs [21:17:51] Anyone who imports and assigns edits gets their IP attached to the user account the edits were assigned to [21:17:57] if no local account exists [21:18:00] Hypercane, yeah, sorry, will do, sorry for my delay in replying :) [21:18:05] You're fine [21:18:06] looks for the Phab task [21:18:12] Xaosk laughed at this [21:18:15] YellowFrogger, it wouldn't be a glitch in the import if ClueBot existed locally and you assigned edits locally [21:18:54] But there is a way to do this by importing. And I don't think there should be a punishment for users who use multiple imported accounts [21:19:05] and nino [21:19:11] Hypercane, yeah enwiki editors can be a bit BITEy to newcomers and they have a lot of policies, some of which conflict with each other [21:19:32] not sure what you mean, YellowFrogger [21:19:35] Hypercane, ty :) [21:19:37] Not only that, I'm afraid a simple mistake would be the end [21:19:38] lol [21:19:40] Ônibus Wiki, Doug [21:19:44] maybe exaggeration [21:19:46] but still [21:20:01] The raw scale of wp policies is why I'm pretty much completely anti that scale of policies or direct imports/attempts to clone and/or rival wikipedia scope [21:20:04] https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T191709 [21:20:05] [url] ⚓ T191709 Checkuser logs SUL attachings caused by page imports under importer's IP/UA | phabricator.wikimedia.org [21:20:24] You could frame yourself accidentally if you cause a CA account to attach to your wiki so be careful [21:20:27] They're the organic growth of a decentralized expansion that is completely inappropriate for any other wiki and even for itself is not ideal [21:21:17] I feel like WP has so many policies it could be an encyclopedia in itself honestly [21:21:25] What exactly do you mean by "frame" [21:21:54] Your IP could come up in CheckUser if a Steward checks someone who you assigned edits to [21:21:55] You could be mistaken for one of those long-term abuse accounts [21:22:03] idk [21:22:08] nvm [21:22:12] YellowFrogger, edits imported by you for other users are associated to your IP. It's a CheckUser extension oddity [21:22:32] It's been a reported bug since 2018 so I doubt it'll get fixed any time soon [21:22:33] and thus it was discovered that raidarr is actually the civil alias of the noncyclopedia lta [21:22:45] Agent, oh wow? since 2018!? :) [21:22:51] Raidarr = LTA confirmed? :o [21:22:52] @raidarr lol [21:22:52] Ah, 2018 [21:23:02] raidarr = final boss of the lta [21:23:04] That was one of the darker times in one of my wiki's history [21:23:09] I kept getting vandals [21:23:12] And LTAs [21:23:12] The task to implement global blocks has been open since 2008 so... [21:23:13] lol [21:23:19] * dmehus wishes he knew Raidarr spoke Italian :P [21:23:29] Le croissant [21:23:31] 2008? [21:23:32] that's Italian, right? [21:23:33] I wish I spoke italian tbh [21:23:35] dmehus I've been meaning to ask about that. If I imported something over to another with the users being assigned to said edits, would the IPs pick them up? [21:23:36] Dang, I was young then [21:23:41] Damn, I hope that doesn't happen, because I love doing it, and I've done it several times: https://onibus.miraheze.org/wiki/Especial:Lista_de_usu%C3%A1rios I would never hurt Miraheze like that. And maybe I would explain it to me, if possible. [21:24:12] [url] Lista de usuários - Ônibus Wiki | onibus.miraheze.org [21:24:16] I know I imported a page with an odd 800 revisions yesterday, oops :p [21:24:48] I've recently been importing pages with users being assigned to the edits. [21:24:59] dmehus, I didn't realize, but that one user's wiki is not private. [21:25:03] darkmatterman450, if users' accounts are attached locally to your wiki when you import the page(s) and choose to assign edits locally, they'll be attributed, correctly, publicly to the users, but the private technical details will be attributed to you, yes [21:25:07] yes [21:25:09] Eh, my point still stands [21:25:13]