[15:27:08] <_______________________________d, replying to gummiel> blud [15:27:52] <_______________________________d> opera gx is the most "How do you do, fellow kids?" browser out there [15:28:03] <_______________________________d> it's just that they were more successful at marketing [15:28:31] <_______________________________d> it's also borderline spyware [15:28:41] <_______________________________d> not as bad as chrome but the violations are still pretty terrible [15:38:17] Source? [15:38:43] <_______________________________d, replying to gummiel> https://spyware.neocities.org/articles/opera [15:39:08] <_______________________________d> i'm not going to the whole "it's chinese spyware!!!" thing but yeah you're pretty much downloading bonzibuddy here [15:49:34] [1/2] pff... that site has no idea what they are talking about... classifying basic telemetry, and automatic updates as enough for something to be called "spyware". Ohh and why are you here on discord then, if you use them as the classification for spyware, that happen to give discord the same "Extremely high" rating 😉 https://spyware.neocitie [15:49:34] [2/2] s.org/articles/discord Better uninstall discord there then bud 😉 [15:51:49] https://spyware.neocities.org/articles/firefox 😂😂 so the most privacy focused browser out there is ranked high [15:52:16] yeah that too xD [15:56:13] I also have doubts that the claims they make about it uniquely ID each install is even true, I have access to the telemetry data, and it is heavily anonymized, and theres not much it collects that would tell anything about the person. [15:57:23] Automatic updates being a concern makes me laugh, because thats standard to prevent normal end users from missing security updates [15:59:31] Speaking of Mozilla, I need to remind them I need my NDA with them renewed by March [16:03:42] <_______________________________d, replying to gummiel> i don't have discord installed [16:03:53] <_______________________________d> and you ignored all of my points [16:06:01] [1/2] You are on discord right now... even if you use is through a browser or something most of the same points would still apply... [16:06:01] [2/2] And ignored your points? Your only point so far been "it's spyware bud" with a site that have no idea what they talk about as your only source... hard to ignore your points if you don't have any... [16:06:49] <_______________________________d, replying to gummiel> sandboxed [16:06:59] So again I am asking you for an trustworthy source for your spyware claim, that doesn't classify things like automatic updates as spyware... [16:07:15] <_______________________________d> facebook and google uncontained [16:07:28] <_______________________________d> tons of unsolicited requests for every website load [16:07:51] <_______________________________d> people will really do anything to not admit that their favorite browser is bonzibuddy-tier spyware [16:11:38] “Opera makes geolocation requests” so does 99% of the websites you visit on a daily basis, most common use is traffic routing [16:11:43] <_______________________________d> vpn moment [16:11:46] [1/3] and the picture they use for it... well about half of it is image request... you know to show you images. and in fact all but 4 in the SS they show are GET request... so things that are incoming... [16:11:47] [2/3] And sure it had google chrome as default search engine... basically every browser does, doesn't mean you have to use it, and most of the other stuff mentioned are OPTIONAL features... [16:11:47] [3/3] So again I am asking you for an trustworthy source for your spyware claim, that doesn't classify things like automatic updates as spyware... [16:12:22] <_______________________________d> one of the things is optional. [16:13:09] [1/2] “Anytime you visit a website, Opera will make a request like this to check if it is malicious. So it is literally spying on your whole browsing history” [16:13:10] [2/2] So does any decent anti-virus, infact some ISPs have this built in their modems [16:13:29] <_______________________________d, replying to zppix> that's why vpns exist, and also why i don't use antiviruses [16:13:43] Oh boy [16:13:46] dude [16:13:56] <_______________________________d> also i just want to see i'm not trying to force anyone not to use opera, i just wanted to bring up some points [16:14:18] Using an anti-virus is security 101… [16:14:34] <_______________________________d> it really depends on who you trust with your data, and i don't trust opera, google, or facebook/meta [16:14:49] Many legitimate things can be used for illegitimate purpose [16:15:07] An anti virus needs at least a hash of the domain / url to know if it's malicious [16:15:15] <_______________________________d> that's what i'm trying to say [16:15:17] public VPN's dont give any privacy, and only a very limited amount of security on their own. The only real reason to use public VPN's is to get around georestrictions (which could be considered borderline illegal) [16:15:35] @gummiel or access ipv6 stuff [16:15:57] Public VPN's is basiocally just moving your trust from your ISP, to your VPN provider [16:16:03] Or improve performance on something like 1.1.1.1 [16:16:06] If you click on one of them from there, they will know you visited from Opera's Speed Dial. Websites knowing the referrer is very common, this is basic and totally safe analytics [16:16:23] <_______________________________d> eh [16:16:37] <_______________________________d> i still don't trust opera with my data, not saying that you shouldn't use it [16:18:45] I mean fair, I am not telling you who to trust and who not to... but you have yet to provide a single shread of credible evidence that opera should be actual spyware [16:21:46] Heck I wouldn't be surprised if that site would be able to qualify MW as spyware [16:22:55] <_______________________________d> mediawiki is very clearly not spyware [16:24:39] By that sites definition, MW would be considered to be spyware, cause it is collecting IP, User Agent, possibly User’s OS. When it is very clearly a safe software (when setup properly) [16:24:47] We record data on every user [16:25:31] We store a fair amount [16:25:48] <_______________________________d> it's expected though [16:25:50] Including every page someone's looked at in at least the last week or so [16:26:05] <_______________________________d> you're not expecting a web browser to steal your data [16:26:09] <_______________________________d> it's not required [16:26:19] I would expect chrome to do basic url checking [16:26:28] I explicitly ask it to block malware and phishing [16:27:02] I have to laugh cause the site considers Windows Update to be spyware according to the entry on Internet Explorer [18:19:19] That's the kind of paranoia that ironically is likely to lead to less safe practices :) [19:07:26] @originalauthority a seat next to mine is ready for a by-election 👀 [19:10:39] Ooo. Did you see all the tories on twitter saying that the swings didn't indicate that there was gonna be a swing in the GE [19:10:46] laughable that they're still denying it [19:10:48] yeh [19:11:02] all their voters stayed at home, they'll come out for the GE [19:11:05] 🤣 [19:11:28] labours entire voters from 2019 came out and labour only got 800 more votes. that's their line as well [19:11:32] joke of a party [19:12:16] Rishi is still deluded that we actually want him in power though he probably won't call a GE until 2025 [19:12:35] yeh, funny thing is voters are going to get pissed the longer he waits [19:12:47] they'll be even further reprecussions [19:13:32] governing by sabatage. Moving further to the right. Coming out with batshit crazy ideas and also calling voters stupid (not in the literal sense). [19:17:57] True [19:18:04] Meanwhile the economy is borked [19:18:27] Mortgage interest rates will probably hit 8% by the time the GE comes [19:20:29] Energy prices will continue to rise due to lack of renewable investment [19:20:43] The good old basics of any reigning party [19:23:30] I joined OctoPlus today in other news, though! [19:26:57] [1/2] I don't think it's necessarily a lack of trying, though. I work for a planning consultancy and we see companies enquiring about building renewable energy generation or storage all the time but are ultimately put off by how difficult it is to get approval. [19:26:58] [2/2] Were working with one energy provider at the minute (can't say which) that has dropped over 100k on planning fees alone to get approval for a renewable energy development and said that the cost for them is likely putting them off trying to get approval again for renewable. [19:32:22] @owenrb what's this from my grandma about Shell moving their phone line to Ocotpus [19:32:27] Can you do them a deal [19:32:53] @paladox I got an email from Labour today [19:33:12] email? did you sign up to their list or something [19:33:30] @paladox ye I'm on my Maps [19:33:32] MPs [19:33:36] oh [19:33:47] I get emails from my MP as Labour and my councillors as Lib Dem [19:34:02] i am not subscribed to mine as he's a tory. [19:34:07] my councilliors are labour [19:34:20] i get frequent emails from my clp [19:34:27] We're buying Shell in the UK and Germany [19:34:39] hold on [19:34:45] octopus is buying out shell???? [19:34:51] I guess you moving from energy to telephone lines as well then 🙂 [19:35:00] My grandma's landline is through Shell [19:35:07] After they took it from post office [19:35:18] my gran won't switch hers [19:35:26] as she got a deal when she got this house decades ago [19:35:35] cheaper power beetween certain times (only at night) [19:35:43] Well Shell put their domestic energy and telecoms business up for sale [19:35:54] And we won the bidding [19:35:54] they have a telecoms buisness? [19:35:56] oh [19:36:01] @paladox yes they do [19:36:06] will you be putting down the petrol costs [19:36:11] @owenrb you doing any deals for friends ? [19:36:14] shell cost a ton more then the other stations [19:36:38] Only their energy business 😂 oil and all that will still be Shell [19:36:53] oh ok [19:37:08] They pulled out as the energy market is extremely unattractive and unprofitable [19:37:35] Octopus will make it profitable by putting customers first 🫡 [19:37:55] a happy customer is someone who stays with you / making you money / bringing in more people [19:38:04] Ofgem rules state all tariffs must be accessible to everyone so those deals don't exist (and never did with Octopus) [19:38:12] I want to clear the like £400 I have in credit with BG before I move to Octopus [19:38:19] I mean as an energy supplier, we've never made a profit [19:38:28] @owenrb no referral code for customers moving telecoms side? [19:38:33] So definitely won't make it profitable 😂 [19:38:54] Unsure what is happening with Telecoms currently [19:39:00] Cool [19:39:01] We're unlikely to keep it [19:39:06] better then british gas [19:39:10] british gas are horrible [19:39:27] We have a deal signed with a telecoms provider to start using our platform so we might sell it to them [19:39:31] @paladox only reason I haven't moved is I don't trust BG to give me my £400 back quickly [19:39:41] And I don't want to have to argue [19:39:55] that's one of the reasons why these regulations exists [19:39:57] So I'm waiting until it's near used up before switching [19:40:23] @paladox British Gas have already once said in writing they have no interest in complying with UK law to me [19:40:35] yeh [19:40:42] because they are hoping you are poor [19:40:47] and cannot afford to go to court [19:41:13] No need to go to court with energy suppliers [19:41:24] Energy Ombudsman will sort it all out [19:41:44] doesn't that still cost a bit? [19:41:50] @paladox nope [19:41:55] The supplier, yes [19:41:59] oh [19:42:08] And BG soon stood down once the ombudsman sent my complaint [19:42:20] A full case can cost a supplier up to £720 regardless of fault [19:42:22] But I don't trust them to not try it again [19:42:31] @owenrb what does an FCR cost? [19:42:40] £240 [19:43:22] @owenrb so British Gas cost themselves £345 on what should have been £60 comp [19:43:29] The maths just don't add up [19:43:41] I wish more people knew their rights [19:44:08] For sure [19:44:28] @owenrb if everyone knew their rights, they'd go bust [19:44:45] I said this to southern water, I haven't actually paid them a penny yet [19:44:55] Because it took them so long to answer an email [19:46:12] Long email response times are the worst complaints [19:46:52] @owenrb why the worst complaints? [19:47:18] Because they're so basic in action to resolve and some people can really push their luck with it [19:47:56] Yes it really is basic [19:48:08] I send you a query, you reply within the time you're supposed too [19:48:20] I apologise and usually offer nothing. If they want to complain, I default to £10 a week over 7 days it's gone unanswered and that sorts out 99% of complaints usually [19:48:21] If you don't, I string you for the comp [19:48:43] @owenrb water is like £30 if over 10 for payment queries [19:49:08] And an extra £10 if over 10 days to pay [19:49:15] Or maybe it's £20 for slow reply [19:49:23] £30 is a standard amount to be fair [19:49:25] But yes it's a really annoying thing [19:49:41] I just want an answer [19:50:03] FOS are really annoying me because they are still having an argument with TSB about how to apologise to me [19:50:24] I think they want TSB to put it on gold the amount of time they are taking [19:50:52] can't you ask for a rebate? [19:51:15] Yes but I don't trust them to pay it without a debate and 6 month wait [19:54:47] Would you @originalauthority [19:55:39] I've never dealt with BG before, but going off your experience, probably not. [19:57:06] My boss joined from BG, so I know about quite a lot of their internal workings and it's God awful [19:57:34] @owenrb worse than I imagine? [19:58:11] From a customer stand point probably not [19:58:27] From a "getting stuff done" perspective, it's so stagnant [19:59:19] There's barely any innovation because there's a fear if your idea fails, you'll be on the chopping block [20:00:50] That's a really terrible way of doing stuff [20:01:01] Ideas should be shared always [20:01:05] Some might be insane [20:01:13] But you never know what they'll inspire [20:02:08] It's also why I like the fact we've got 6 new apprentices to deal with. Like they don't accept we do it that way because and it's stupid. It's brings good ideas and less acceptance of old. [20:03:32] Constantly innovating is a good way to operate. I can go from idea to putting it into practice within 24 hours in my current job [20:03:45] That's really good [20:04:12] My job is kind of all innovation on my side. It's the enabling side that gets frustrating. [20:04:12] And if it works, great, and if it doesn't, you've learnt something [20:04:44] @owenrb most brilliant ideas didn't come on attempt 1 [20:06:29] Very much indeed! [20:07:55] And the best ideas don't come from sitting in a room away from customers as well [20:08:45] We've got a really busy week coming up next week and I've dedicated myself to do 18 hours of customer facing work - which is unusual for me 😂 [20:15:41] @owenrb I'm trying to force through more informal collaboration at work [20:15:49] Because somehow it's proving itself useful [20:16:05] Collaboration is always useful [20:16:45] @owenrb go tell those used to private offices that [20:16:58] Sharing ideas and problems has a huge impact [20:17:35] For sure. That's why I like Octopus because no level is removed from customers or day to day workings [20:18:15] While you may do less customer facing contact in management, the simple rule is - if there's a call waiting, you take it no matter who you are [20:18:24] We got quite a few middle managers [20:18:31] Who lack authority and lack work [20:18:38] Even Greg takes calls occasionally [20:18:41] They are just their to cause problems and stem ideas [20:18:43] Whose Greg [20:20:28] The CEO [20:20:33] Ah [20:20:51] That's really good [20:22:27] The more openly people can talk and share ideas, always the better [20:22:50] Best thing about September's work event was the lack of level [20:23:08] The event explicitly banned any form of level or rank during it [20:42:09] I’ll call in x [20:50:21] what do you do? [20:50:46] Software Engineer [20:50:59] ahhhhh [20:51:13] Enabling is like estates, HR, admin [20:51:23] Project management [20:51:51] i saw a grad job for 40k at lloyds for software engineer [20:51:52] i wish [20:52:03]