[01:50:09] <MirahezeRelay>	 <notaracham, replying to cat.bread> I'm still confused why they decided to start it with a quote from One Piece
[01:50:45] <MirahezeRelay>	 <cat.bread, replying to notaracham> neither do i
[01:50:57] <MirahezeRelay>	 <cat.bread> but he got fandom-wide banned for doing this
[01:51:07] <MirahezeRelay>	 <cat.bread> now the fandom ubg wiki is like
[01:51:09] <MirahezeRelay>	 <cat.bread> the wild west
[01:51:47] <MirahezeRelay>	 <cat.bread> [1/3] <https://untitled-boxing-games.fandom.com/wiki/Playstyles>
[01:51:47] <MirahezeRelay>	 <cat.bread> [2/3] <https://untitled-boxing-games.fandom.com/wiki/Information_About_Playstyles?>
[01:51:47] <MirahezeRelay>	 <cat.bread> [3/3] you have duplicated pages line this
[01:51:53] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev> Could have at least cleaned up
[01:51:57] <MirahezeRelay>	 <cat.bread> that convey the exact same information
[01:52:08] <MirahezeRelay>	 <notaracham> Fandom gban is stupid easy to achieve in fairness
[01:52:11] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev> Adoption is an option if someone wants to at least serve as a custodian
[01:52:25] <MirahezeRelay>	 <cat.bread> nah im gonna kill it with the miraheze wiki
[01:52:46] <MirahezeRelay>	 <notaracham> True, they're fairly open to adoption as long as you contribute for seven consecutive days
[01:52:53] <MirahezeRelay>	 <cat.bread> based on a thread that ive read
[01:53:00] <MirahezeRelay>	 <cat.bread> you can't make the wiki whitelist only
[01:53:14] <MirahezeRelay>	 <cat.bread> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615786602454581249/1388336407629664346/image.png?ex=68609c89&is=685f4b09&hm=2253bac17fc83860ce3abb67d573a258c9d694e222bb4217ef3236c8d068881a&
[01:54:10] <MirahezeRelay>	 <notaracham> Yep, one of our key differentiators
[01:54:15] <MirahezeRelay>	 <cat.bread, replying to notaracham> yeah
[01:54:26] <MirahezeRelay>	 <cat.bread> much nicer to have a trusted team that has access to
[01:54:31] <MirahezeRelay>	 <cat.bread> actual game information
[01:56:02] <MirahezeRelay>	 <cat.bread> [1/2] (this particular style's M1s are actually some of the slowest in the game)
[01:56:03] <MirahezeRelay>	 <cat.bread> [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615786602454581249/1388337116336885820/image.png?ex=68609d32&is=685f4bb2&hm=6f0ce9c43690adbb9ebd290feb0e44ad7a3216eb198ff4be71331f8c5a7177c0&
[01:56:49] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev> I actually don’t agree with thay approch on philosophical/value
[01:57:21] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev> I much prefer a moderation queue or ApprovedRev system if thats a concern to still allow new contributors
[01:57:28] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev> But regardless
[01:57:32] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev> I Disapprove of What You Say, But I Will Defend to the Death Your Right to Say It
[01:57:58] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev> May not agree with doing kt, but I support your ability to do it here
[01:59:14] <MirahezeRelay>	 <cat.bread> the developer for the game i made the wiki on does not like publishing actual statistics with numbers because he thinks that it will easily enable copiers (do i agree with this take? ehh idk but it's his game so i will respect his decision)
[02:00:23] <MirahezeRelay>	 <cat.bread> there's a guy who manages the balance of the game that knows these actual numbers and gave us comparative statistics that are accurate to the numbers (i.e what style has average M1 speed, good M1 range, etc)
[02:01:34] <MirahezeRelay>	 <cat.bread> its just that having a team with people who knows the ins and outs of the game at a very deep level is very nice
[02:02:14] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev> I don’t disagree with having lead editors who are the most familiar
[02:02:20] <MirahezeRelay>	 <cat.bread> and yes
[02:02:23] <MirahezeRelay>	 <cat.bread> i do have a whitelist system
[02:02:58] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev> Especially with stats
[02:03:00] <MirahezeRelay>	 <cat.bread> if you demonstrate you know the ins and outs of the game enough/have other skillsets like strong english to rewrite stuff to be more digestible or CSS/HTML skills
[02:03:11] <MirahezeRelay>	 <cat.bread> chances are you're probably gonna be let in
[02:03:46] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev> even then I think thats a high bar tp attracting new contributors
[02:04:03] <MirahezeRelay>	 <cat.bread> the main demographic for the game is like 13-15 year olds (although there is a significant chunk of older people who are interested in the comp scene) so i'm hesitant on giving everyone access
[02:04:28] <MirahezeRelay>	 <notaracham> If it's an org/official wiki and they've got the bandwidth to spend on documentation, no complaints here.
[02:04:40] <MirahezeRelay>	 <notaracham> Shine on, you crazy editors.
[02:05:46] <MirahezeRelay>	 <cat.bread, replying to notaracham> it's mainly ran by me (i test for the game) and 2 other guys (1 other main editor who knows the ins and outs of the game well and 1 guy who actually has access to the numbers in the game)
[02:06:58] <MirahezeRelay>	 <notaracham> Sounds pretty similar to what I've done for the two wikis I maintain on this platform
[02:07:51] <MirahezeRelay>	 <notaracham> I really need to get back to farthest frontier, just waiting for 1.0
[02:08:22] <MirahezeRelay>	 <cat.bread, replying to cat.bread> [1/2] but yeah my second reason is that the fandom wiki has style idle animations icons like this and you have these 13-15 year olds consistently change the image for no reason other than to have their own avatars appear on the wiki
[02:08:22] <MirahezeRelay>	 <cat.bread, replying to cat.bread> [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615786602454581249/1388340215755575346/image.png?ex=6860a015&is=685f4e95&hm=08a01d1388e50165ad7fe43f26040103c5999c6cb553ba793ab7a6e8a598f531&
[02:08:51] <MirahezeRelay>	 <cat.bread> as an example
[02:08:52] <MirahezeRelay>	 <notaracham> Ugh. Yeah. The "internet points" phenomenon
[02:08:59] <MirahezeRelay>	 <cat.bread, replying to notaracham> it sucks
[02:09:13] <MirahezeRelay>	 <cat.bread> and like 60% of the wiki stats are
[02:09:14] <MirahezeRelay>	 <cat.bread> flat out wrong
[02:12:01] <MirahezeRelay>	 <cat.bread> [1/2] (we decided to give each style a stylized outfit on who the style is based off of)
[02:12:01] <MirahezeRelay>	 <cat.bread> [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615786602454581249/1388341136044589076/image.png?ex=6860a0f0&is=685f4f70&hm=2abb4a795ffc6993013e9893d091e0b85c8e4eefb869775ea68a08589af72b23&
[02:17:30] <MirahezeRelay>	 <notaracham, replying to cat.bread> Makes sense, if the intent is to learn the visual language of each style for identification, that has the right color scheme and pops at the right locations to be easily parseable
[02:17:49] <MirahezeRelay>	 <notaracham> Not something I can say for the first version
[02:17:52] <MirahezeRelay>	 <cat.bread> yeah
[02:17:59] <MirahezeRelay>	 <cat.bread> the guy who did work on this
[02:18:02] <MirahezeRelay>	 <cat.bread> did a REALLY good job
[07:37:22] <MirahezeRelay>	 <awesomegamer101> Seeing the outrage on updates, part of me wishes that the only racing game the MKW complainers get to play is Forza Motorsport.
[09:38:48] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theoneandonlylegroom> [1/2] 🥳🎉🎉🎉🎉
[09:38:49] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theoneandonlylegroom> [2/2] https://bsky.app/profile/catsuka.bsky.social/post/3lsnq6f7p4k2r
[10:15:00] <MirahezeRelay>	 <realcastle, replying to theoneandonlylegroom> Akira looks like Shinji Ikari but he actually locked the fucked in
[10:16:18] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theoneandonlylegroom> the guy on cover isn't Akira lol
[11:46:37] <MirahezeRelay>	 <blankeclair> [1/2] i think i got ip banned by officeworks
[11:46:37] <MirahezeRelay>	 <blankeclair> [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615786602454581249/1388485738282352743/1751111195323.png?ex=6861279c&is=685fd61c&hm=df2f58af7ce9eb55e987de1319bc955d7c0ef5722d2176c56db88ca585707ad7&
[12:13:30] <MirahezeRelay>	 <awing_ding> oh i didn't know 406
[16:53:00] <MirahezeRelay>	 <amelialoveheart> Every time I go on a wikimedia site I got jump scared by the “Wikicurious” event held in my state. Why do they make it sound like a queer convention 😭
[17:31:01] <MirahezeRelay>	 <songngu.xyz> [1/2] long ass sigh
[17:31:01] <MirahezeRelay>	 <songngu.xyz> [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615786602454581249/1388572408776228895/image.png?ex=68617854&is=686026d4&hm=726ccbd0c97ea67b46ae325e21be67bba8fb8e8400dd6151ab5ad93be0cff1f3&
[17:31:29] <MirahezeRelay>	 <songngu.xyz> https://tenor.com/view/snoring-snoring-aneurysm-brain-aneurysm-brain-aww-gif-25678781
[17:36:26] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theoneandonlylegroom> man
[18:13:09] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev, replying to amelialoveheart> Wikicurious events are fin
[18:13:17] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev> I’ve attended a few myself
[18:13:36] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev> Currently wearing my hat from one of then
[18:13:47] <MirahezeRelay>	 <snowstacked> Are you wiki curious now
[18:15:11] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev, replying to snowstacked> I’m WikiWonderful
[18:15:29] <MirahezeRelay>	 <amelialoveheart> I would’ve attended this one but it’s like a two hour drive and I couldn’t get transport for that distance
[19:52:31] <MirahezeRelay>	 <notaracham, replying to songngu.xyz> This, right here, is my biggest gripe with citizen.  Frequent, unannounced, deprecations of functions/classes.
[19:52:58] <MirahezeRelay>	 <abaddriverlol> This change has been introduced in 3.0.0 though
[19:52:58] <MirahezeRelay>	 <notaracham> Great skin, to be sure, but a pain in my butt.
[19:53:05] <MirahezeRelay>	 <abaddriverlol> Minor releases don't usually break stuff like this
[19:53:26] <MirahezeRelay>	 <notaracham> (We've had managewiki-breaking changes in minor releases before)
[19:53:47] <MirahezeRelay>	 <abaddriverlol> oh
[19:54:20] <MirahezeRelay>	 <notaracham> Not the end of the world, just a nuisance when stuff-breaking stuff happens.
[20:19:19] <MirahezeRelay>	 <cat.bread> [1/2] my cat lost his window rights
[20:19:19] <MirahezeRelay>	 <cat.bread> [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615786602454581249/1388614764292472903/IMG_2369.webp?ex=68619fc7&is=68604e47&hm=f1c3bdd7033089eb1a21ad8185b8837998fc2fe736debda7a30699f5dc9de46f&
[20:19:39] <MirahezeRelay>	 <cat.bread> (he ate a bug that  somehow got through the window)
[20:21:36] <MirahezeRelay>	 <asko1> isn't that a good thing
[20:22:30] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theoneandonlylegroom> hunter
[20:22:37] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theoneandonlylegroom> protector
[20:22:40] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theoneandonlylegroom> etc
[20:35:07] <MirahezeRelay>	 <posix_memalign, replying to notaracham> Added to [meta's skin guide](https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Help:How_to_customise_the_look_of_my_wiki). Maybe the skin list can be converted to a table like [comparing Miraheze to other services](https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Help:Comparing_Miraheze_to_other_services), though I don't know much about some of these skins enough.
[20:45:49] <MirahezeRelay>	 <atxatx, replying to notaracham> Those color changes are introduced in 3.0.0 which is a breaking update. Almost all deprecations are first soft-deprecated and only hard-deprecated in a major version. They are also recorded in the release page and the changelog.
[20:47:36] <MirahezeRelay>	 <atxatx> The skin is also affected by Codex being in active development, as we have to support multiple MW versions while staying in sync with Codex
[20:52:24] <MirahezeRelay>	 <atxatx> HTML changes are trickier, they are infrequent but they are typically announced in the release note as well
[20:54:15] <MirahezeRelay>	 <posix_memalign, replying to songngu.xyz> Hmmm. Would this break browsers prior to 2023 since [oklch support is added very recently](https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/CSS/color_value/oklch)?
[20:55:53] <MirahezeRelay>	 <atxatx> We have HSL fallback
[20:57:43] <MirahezeRelay>	 <posix_memalign> Ah I see.
[21:10:13] <MirahezeRelay>	 <notaracham, replying to atxatx> [1/2] Context is appreciated, thanks for coming by and discussing!
[21:10:14] <MirahezeRelay>	 <notaracham, replying to atxatx> [2/2] Despite the negative tone of my comments, do want to add that Citizen really is beautiful work despite the minor issues particular to our setup - there's a reason it's become one of the top skins for so many recent projects. 🙂
[21:12:56] <MirahezeRelay>	 <amelialoveheart> I think one of my least favorite policies I’ve seen on wikis is where the process of adding a new page has to be very bureaucratic and go through peer review. Like I understand the want for consistency and quality but often I just think it leads to wikis feeling very incomplete. (This is in reference to wikis based off like tv shows and stuff, not serious academia)
[21:25:17] <MirahezeRelay>	 <atxatx, replying to notaracham> I'm constantly looking for a better way to handle CSS deprecations, there isn't a good way that I know of to communicate that outside of release notes 🥲
[21:25:56] <MirahezeRelay>	 <amelialoveheart> I have the extremely healthy mindset of “scrap and burn everything, start anew” when deprecations happen
[21:26:28] <MirahezeRelay>	 <asko1, replying to amelialoveheart> seems very similar to the 2 week minecraft phase mindset
[21:26:45] <MirahezeRelay>	 <atxatx> The other part of the issue is that Citizen doesn't follow the WMF release policy, which means you always develop on the latest MW and freeze the previous release branch whenever a new MW release is cut
[21:27:01] <MirahezeRelay>	 <amelialoveheart> 2 week page?
[21:27:13] <MirahezeRelay>	 <atxatx> For skins that use the WMF policy, you only get changes if you update MW
[21:27:28] <MirahezeRelay>	 <asko1, replying to amelialoveheart> the implication being that you start a new world/server each time
[21:27:35] <MirahezeRelay>	 <posix_memalign, replying to atxatx> For MH, perhaps wikis that use Citizen by default can sign up for deprecation/breaking change notifications and have these delivered to their talk pages.
[21:27:51] <MirahezeRelay>	 <amelialoveheart> Ohhh ahhh
[21:28:00] <MirahezeRelay>	 <amelialoveheart> I haven’t played Minecraft since I was in middle school
[21:28:05] <MirahezeRelay>	 <asko1> oh fair
[21:30:10] <MirahezeRelay>	 <atxatx> Hmm maybe MH can do a bot to list the commits between the changes. We already use conventional commit in Citizen so it might work
[21:33:25] <MirahezeRelay>	 <atxatx, replying to amelialoveheart> It is more difficult when it comes to UI and open source software that are used by others. People are creatures of habit, and that's especially true for the MediaWiki ecosystem
[21:33:44] <MirahezeRelay>	 <atxatx> Vector 2022 being the prime example
[21:35:02] <MirahezeRelay>	 <amelialoveheart> I was being a bit hyperbolic but yeah I basically had to quit classic vector because stuff kept breaking on it and didn’t know how to fix it
[21:35:09] <MirahezeRelay>	 <amelialoveheart> So timeless is my new go to skin
[21:36:01] <MirahezeRelay>	 <atxatx> Yeah Timeless is very stable, it is basically in maintenance mode now
[21:36:36] <MirahezeRelay>	 <amelialoveheart> It is rather
[21:36:37] <MirahezeRelay>	 <atxatx> Monobook is also another good candidate
[21:36:38] <MirahezeRelay>	 <amelialoveheart> rimless
[21:37:09] <MirahezeRelay>	 <blankeclair> modern-
[21:37:36] <MirahezeRelay>	 <amelialoveheart> gamepress
[21:38:23] <MirahezeRelay>	 <blankeclair> authentication-popup
[21:38:38] <MirahezeRelay>	 <asko1> that's a skin?
[21:39:07] <MirahezeRelay>	 <blankeclair> https://rainverse.wiki/wiki/Puddle?useskin=authentication-popup
[21:39:26] <MirahezeRelay>	 <asko1> i audibly said wtf
[21:39:57] <MirahezeRelay>	 <blankeclair> ikr
[21:40:04] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1> There will be a reason
[21:40:14] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1> Do we actually expose it anywhere
[21:40:37] <MirahezeRelay>	 <blankeclair> apioutput best skin frfr
[21:40:52] <MirahezeRelay>	 <amelialoveheart> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615786602454581249/1388635286279553094/IMG_5827.png?ex=6861b2e3&is=68606163&hm=003d744b3434a2992a742254f51b8c9bf856db9ab0b520b07dc3edb20b0b8432&
[21:41:13] <MirahezeRelay>	 <asko1> i agree with this message
[21:41:26] <MirahezeRelay>	 <blankeclair> Lesbian, he's a dude.
[21:41:45] <MirahezeRelay>	 <abaddriverlol, replying to blankeclair> nah, json is better
[21:41:47] <MirahezeRelay>	 <amelialoveheart, replying to blankeclair> I understand.
[21:42:08] <MirahezeRelay>	 <amelialoveheart, replying to blankeclair> This is what the polish Star Wars wiki looks like
[21:42:19] <MirahezeRelay>	 <asko1> oh no
[21:42:20] <MirahezeRelay>	 <abaddriverlol> https://rainverse.wiki/wiki/?useskin=json returns invalid json for me lol
[21:42:42] <MirahezeRelay>	 <asko1> seems fine to me
[21:42:53] <MirahezeRelay>	 <abaddriverlol> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615786602454581249/1388635796709314700/image.png?ex=6861b35d&is=686061dd&hm=ed65c0f0e50dbf54262b228fe0785ba508d81bf4650f5104ab00be5422c48daa&
[21:43:17] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1, replying to blankeclair> It's there for OAuth
[21:43:23] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1> Honestly it seems kinda dumb
[21:43:43] <MirahezeRelay>	 <blankeclair, replying to rhinosf1> why in core of all things?
[21:43:57] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1, replying to blankeclair> It isn't
[21:44:03] <MirahezeRelay>	 <abaddriverlol> it is https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/plugins/gitiles/mediawiki/core/+/995b2e2cf81d0e5bf60552bbf64d1bfd62bac961/includes/skins/SkinAuthenticationPopup.php
[21:44:05] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1> It's Extension:OAuth that registers it
[21:44:40] <MirahezeRelay>	 <abaddriverlol> it also works without OAuth on my local MW instance
[21:44:40] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1> https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/g/mediawiki/extensions/OAuth/+/3630eb8827fde55316e5c21679f516718a2fe81a/src/Frontend/SpecialPages/SpecialMWOAuth.php#104
[21:44:46] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1> Oh weird
[21:44:57] <MirahezeRelay>	 <blankeclair> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615786602454581249/1388636315993768150/Screenshot_20250629-074449.png?ex=6861b3d9&is=68606259&hm=e60c4a58dc70784ef2b7bf5adddbd1f3ba5241a8fc86f5b143561c170439c62f&
[21:45:36] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1> I'm going to sleep
[21:45:52] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1> It sounds like a saner choice than attempting to understand the wonderfuk at this time
[21:46:08] <MirahezeRelay>	 <asko1> sleep well, don't let the authentication-popup bite!
[21:46:25] <MirahezeRelay>	 <blankeclair> let the blahaj hug :3
[21:49:53] <MirahezeRelay>	 <blankeclair> me after eight hours of debugging: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0BpquDZEyUI
[22:07:03] <MirahezeRelay>	 <posix_memalign, replying to atxatx> [1/2] I can do the setup part (leave a talk page message on wiki bureaucrats who use citizen as their default skin and ask them to sign up), but I'm not the person updating Citizen on MH, so someone else would need to explain things in plain language and hit the send button.
[22:07:03] <MirahezeRelay>	 <posix_memalign, replying to atxatx> [2/2] TBH I think Citizen is best enjoyed when lightly customized. It already looks good out-of-the-box and I don't think many wikis have done too much extra styling anyway.
[22:08:15] <MirahezeRelay>	 <cosmicalpha, replying to blankeclair> its meant to be a local popup for central login so you can basically embed a login form from a remote central wiki IIRC. Meant to solve third party cookies. Basically to support embedding central login via pop-up.
[22:08:42] <MirahezeRelay>	 <blankeclair, replying to cosmicalpha> why not... in CA?
[22:09:46] <MirahezeRelay>	 <cosmicalpha, replying to blankeclair> because it adds the &display=popup to login and additionally afaik was also supposed to work beyond CA and even for things like wgSharedDB and other authentication extensions
[22:10:23] <MirahezeRelay>	 <blankeclair> oh oki
[22:10:37] <MirahezeRelay>	 <cosmicalpha> part of the whole third party cookies issue.
[22:13:03] <MirahezeRelay>	 <cosmicalpha> https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T362706 was the task that added it. Finally found it lol
[22:13:19] <MirahezeRelay>	 <cosmicalpha> took me awhile. Had to search my emails for the task lol