[05:00:10] [1/4] Today I learned that repeating the same templatestyles stylesheet will increase the unstrip post-expand size of the page, even if they get deduplicated at the end. [05:00:10] [2/4] A page exceeded that limit because it uses the same template about 1000 times. We thought of minifying the stylesheet using shorter class names, but in the end a simple solution worked: use the Variables extension to load the stylesheet only once. [05:00:11] [3/4] Template: `{{#varexists:{{{name|}}}||{{{1|}}}{{#vardefine:{{{name|}}}|T}}}}` [05:00:11] https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/%23varexists:Template:%7b%7b%7bname [05:00:11] [4/4] Invocation: `{{DeduplicateCSS|name=ItemCardCSS|1=}}` [05:00:11] https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Template:DeduplicateCSS [05:01:07] Can't wait for Parsoid to bring Variables to an end (in 10 years). [11:32:43] [1/2] dude, wth I can't breathe https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hl4eSBP2cd8 [11:32:43] [2/2] how did I completely miss that protest? Man I need to pay more attention to British news. [11:39:23] yeah I had a similar issue a few months back, although I just put it in common.css. this is probably a smarter way to do it [13:06:20] [1/5] @notaracham hey, silly D&D question to someone who DMs that’s been living in my head without paying rent for like an hour [13:06:20] [2/5] Do you think the clause of the suggestion spells of [13:06:21] [3/5] > suggestion must be worded in such a manner as to make the course of action sound reasonable. Asking the creature to stab itself, throw itself onto a spear, immolate itself, or do some other obviously harmful act automatically negates the effect of the spell. [13:06:21] [4/5] > The suggestion must sound achievable and not involve anything that would obviously deal damage to the target or its allies. [13:06:21] [5/5] Would include say, telling a creature to continue doing something indefinitely (for the duration of the spell), therefore neglecting other probably important things like eating 🧐 [13:07:00] Or in other words [13:07:13] [1/2] DM can I cha cha someone to bear death [13:07:14] [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615786602454581249/1425107198773694484/ab18f828cdf96ac99f9bd4841d421a2b40a3660d418e421a436507faf26647b7_1.jpg.jpg?ex=68e66201&is=68e51081&hm=e5f3b632e844dd0fcbe6fb68d13c068f8187e659f8d2c214b8eb2a528331dd74& [13:10:21] By my reading (although I'm not the person you wanted) there's no reason you couldn't - I rule that one as that it's the action that has to be harmful, not the absence of another action - it's why "drop your weapon" etc is allowed. [13:15:19] Always love to hear from others, don’t worry! I just asked NA since he’s the only person I thought of who DMs off my head, but appreciate it nonetheless! [13:16:10] I can't deny it's a really dodgily worded spell, though. It's like the Rogue's 2014 cunning action, which seems to imply that you get an extra bonus action. [13:16:33] I’d agree with this I think, though you couldn’t actually kill someone with this purely because, well, they’d fall unconscious before that, I presume [13:16:35] Actually [13:17:05] If we’re going RAW for the rules on exhaustion, none of the levels actually knock you unconscious… [13:17:24] 5 points of exhaustion reduces your speed to 0 [13:17:32] Which would obviously make cha cha pretty hard [13:17:49] By that point you've succeeded, though. [13:17:57] True [13:18:09] But I’m not sure if that would entirely prevent you from further exerting [13:18:32] As long as you repeat the effect whenever they're actually awake then you're fine. Although past a certain point (provided the creature has a high enough wisdom score) I do think it would become obvious that it's a terrible idea. [13:18:50] That comes down to the definition of exertion versus overexertion, though. [13:19:19] Sit still is much safer because you aren't overexerting yourself, so high wisdom creatures can't have the self-preservation kick in. [13:19:48] And if the spell’s clause is interpreted broadly enough for the creature to define the action as overexeration, and identity it as obviously harmful [13:20:29] The first part I would assume only comes in for high wisdom creatures who you've already been forcing to dance for hours, and the second again for high wisdom creatures only. [13:21:01] So it's a perfectly valid tactic, but with limited utility against certain classes and beasts. [13:22:39] But I think that's just true in general for suggestion, to be honest. Lower wisdom enemies are less good at detecting possible "obvious harm" so you can get them to do things that are more useful to you. [13:23:20] I feel that raises an interesting thing where if obviously harmful is defined by the target’s mind, could you influence that? Modify memory comes to mind but that can’t change someone’s definition of what’s a bad idea [13:23:43] I don’t think there’s any spell in the normal game that could make someone think stabbing themselves with a sword is a good idea [13:23:50] May be wrong though! [13:24:14] [1/2] This is why I have trouble ruling with enchantment spells. [13:24:14] [2/2] But that's definitely a point, if you mess with their perceptions of danger then you've basically got free rein. [13:24:22] Crown of Madness springs to mind as an option. [13:24:42] But modify memory works if you just want to make them forget that something is poisonous, for example. [13:25:23] laughs in barely ever plays D&D let alone gets to DM [13:25:54] Enchantment and divination spells just open the door to a whole new level of fiddly DM work. [13:26:21] True, or a magic item, or what cutting that very powerful important looking string of pure arcane energy in the middle of the dramatic chamber in the heart of the floating city would do [13:27:37] If you're carefully selective about which memories you go for (I'd require an Intelligence check for that sort of thing, DC depending on the target's Wisdom) you could make them think pretty much anything is fine. [13:27:48] It's a precise setup though. [13:28:18] The thing for me is that you can only modify one memory I think [13:28:26] Ah, then you'd have to use it a bunch of times. [13:28:32] I'm not familiar with the spell. [13:28:33] Up casting increases how far back you can [13:28:41] Interesting. [13:29:12] In that case you've got limited utility on humans, you need to hope it's not arisen that often, and you're basically doomed with an elf. [13:29:50] That's far less precise than I thought. [13:30:05] 9th level could be good, but you're not getting many of those. [13:30:22] Oh, it does kinda address this [13:30:31] For the kind of setup we're looking at here even 8th level would probably not be very useful. [13:30:34] Sort of. [13:30:51] Enjoying danger would be definitely illogical, we can dismiss that out of court. [13:31:13] But if we get rid of any indication that such a thing was dangerous in the first place, then I think it's still workable. [13:31:25] Definitely fiddly, but workable. [13:31:40] I’m checking up on Crown of Madness [13:31:43] You'd probably want to read their mind first so that you know exactly what memories to go for though. [13:32:08] One idea I had, is if your DM is feeling especially silly, non magical brainwashing [13:32:14] The implications are horrific though [13:32:27] And almost certainly not a can of worms one would want to open [13:32:31] That's [13:32:33] Hmm [13:32:47] I normally rule against psychological warfare. [13:33:07] That and war crimes. [13:33:17] Counterpoint [13:33:31] Can’t have war crimes with without a Geneva convention [13:34:27] Not the whole set, but you can still stop people from torture and so on. [13:35:33] I can understand why some groups allow them, but it opens an ethical problem I'd rather not go into. [13:35:45] 100% [13:36:13] If you wanna play a real dark and fucked up game, I could see this being part of a plot point in the hands of evil NPCs, def not the PCs [13:36:41] I just feel like they're horrible things, and trivialising them by including them in a game doesn't do enough respect to the people for whom they're real. [13:36:44] Though you don’t really need suggestion at that point [13:36:50] That’s entirely fair [13:37:25] I just get carried away with speculation, apologies if I went a bit far on that [13:37:54] It's a reasonable line of thought, I'm just explaining why I'd rule against it. [13:38:12] Different tables have different rules though, and I don't expect everybody to use the same ones/ [13:39:30] Coming back to this though, I can definitely see a priority-distorted version of suggestion being an interesting plot. Definitely not an efficient one, though. [13:39:51] As you said, there are far quicker ways to kill people. [13:40:29] My thinking on that actually spiraled off more to a betrayal/enemy mole plot line than just killing someone [13:41:02] If you do that right, you don't even need to interfere with their perception of danger first. [13:41:15] True [13:41:21] Just include in the instructions that they need to arrange for the spell to be recast when it expires or something. [13:41:31] No obvious danger in that. [13:42:03] You do reach the point that it becomes impractical if your suggestion instructions are a small pamphlet, though. [13:42:17] [1/2] Maybe not defining someone’s idea of enemies, but if the baddies say captured a close NPC ally of the PCs, used Modify Memory to subtly modify their memory of what something bad does(https://discord.com/channels/407504499280707585/615786602454581249/1425112011502522368), then when in a position that the now released NPC is given access to that, an enemy uses suggestions during an enc [13:42:17] [2/2] ounter to cause them to hit the big red button [13:42:44] Bit of a deviation from the cha cha slide though [13:43:14] True(limit 25 words) [13:43:47] I meant more like, the NPC learned before if the big machine were trying to fix fires before we fix it, we all go boom [13:44:07] The enemy cult or smt uses the spell to remove that memory or modify it [13:44:18] Strictly speaking, "follow the instructions in this book" is less than 25 words. That's subject to whether your DM thinks the book is part of the instructions or not, though. [13:44:26] This definitely works though/ [13:44:47] In the interests of being fair to players, maybe an insight check to notice that something is off with the NPC? [13:44:59] Maybe in a way to be careful so the NPCs new perception isn’t noticed by the player [13:44:59] Then in the showdown [13:45:00] Suggestion: Active the Machine. [13:45:01] Good idea, it would almost definitely have signs [13:45:17] Though is I’m how this would play with later information [13:45:19] That is, allow it if they try and make one but don't point it out to them. If you point it out they'll know something is up. [13:45:49] If their previous memory of machine bad are removed and replaced, but then after that they receive that information again, conflicting with what they now know [13:46:06] That would work, I think. [13:46:26] There’s also potential in dialogue to drop clues to prompt the more invested/attentive players to look closer [13:46:33] Detect magic would also work if I remember right. [13:46:58] I don't normally have the luxury of players who pay too much attention to the actual wording of dialogue, there's only one group where I can see that working. [13:47:22] (As in showing that the NPC has been enchanted) [13:47:28] Depending how much the cult knows, there’s some interesting potential to be funky with the wording and information given so it seems on a quick listen everyone is on the same page [13:47:31] mood [13:47:44] My old group in my school’s DND club was very much fuck around have fun [13:47:48] Not roleplaying [13:47:51] But most people won't be casting that at random, unless they're a Witch's Sight warlock and keep it on all the time. [13:47:59] I had one of those just because it was useful to be able to see ghosts. [13:48:11] I am in a new group this year since the DM graduated, and it’s actually RP focused, so I’m excited! [13:48:47] The dynamic so far is very silly and fun [13:48:56] There's a lot to be said for those, but equally it makes it harder to run complex plotlines. [13:49:17] pffft, plot lines? Not with this lot [13:49:52] I like to have a general one that they can stick to or deviate from. [13:49:57] That group also eventually became talking about politics half the time(not like I wasn’t part of that) [13:50:33] But yeah, my new DM has a fun idea and theme, and I can tell she cares about cooking up something cool [13:50:52] Sadly I miss the second session this week(and I also need to finish my character sheet…) [13:50:53] But then one of my groups accidentally deviated from the plot so far that they ended up committing domestic terrorism by mistake for some reason. Still not sure what they thought they were doing. I gave them a little prod back towards the plot to stop it getting even more insane. [13:51:13] domestic… terrorism… by mistake…. [13:51:36] A proper world is the important thing to have, joke characters in a proper world can work but proper characters in a joke world not so much. [13:51:52] They stole this power source thing from some vital military infrastructure. [13:53:15] We have a good balance I think, in that one of the characters is very comic/jokey, but it still fits [13:54:11] The campaign was is fairy tale themed, we’re visiting Snow White’s kingdom currently. My friend who’s the only other PC rn is a short purple tabaxi [13:54:31] (The cousin of the cat from Alice in Wonderland) [13:54:51] I was about to ask if they could cast invisibility, so good to know I was on the right track. [13:55:08] Comedic nihilism [13:55:30] Also the player herself is literally half cat most of the time [13:55:40] Gotta love the weirdos D&D brings in [13:55:42] But yeah [13:56:12] I’m playing a simple lumberjack (barbarian, flavored human but using the Goliath’s stats and build) [13:56:25] So I can basically pick up the other PC by the scruff [13:57:14] The foils is so funny [13:57:21] According to Baldur's Gate rules (admittedlyl 5e rules as far as I know don't cover this at all) you should also be able to throw them if they're light enough. [13:57:51] Almost certainly, and I think the idea came up as a joke [13:58:03] Will let you know if(when) it happens [13:58:16] I fully approve of throwing smaller characters. [13:58:42] Do love the world building the DM is cooking by mashing all the fairytales into a semi-meta universe [13:58:54] My permanent Witch's Sight warlock would just hit people with her staff when she ran out of spells because I thought it was more entertaining than using the crossbow. [13:58:58] Even if Michard Mouse isn’t God, so much as the other player insists [13:59:10] it is! [13:59:37] I must be off now, but this has been a nice chat. [13:59:47] Thanks for your time. [14:00:28] It really has, thank you for the chat Sakura! [14:00:43] Do hope we get to do this again ^^ [14:01:58] this d&d stuff confusing as HELL [14:02:18] More confused than looking at Parsoid source 🥲 [14:03:46] Nope sorry not possible [14:12:41] What part is confusing lol [14:14:42] Just how you make all this stuff up [14:14:45] My head would explode [14:15:19] Eh, over 40 years of building stuff up, and rulebooks that have whole teams paid to work on them [14:15:28] To be clear I don’t remember a lot of this [14:16:11] when you worldbuild you realize your memory is better than you usually think [14:16:11] Multiple times in that conversation I opened my browser and pulled up the spell effects or the rules on exhaustion points [14:16:49] Say, here [14:17:02] [1/2] I had pulled up [14:17:02] [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615786602454581249/1425124766624252045/image0.jpg?ex=68e6725d&is=68e520dd&hm=b384823a5d8d32aaea5a3cf1ee29d8cafb7053cb5c9bcf7d33657be13bf6dc91& [14:17:55] https://tenor.com/view/shrimp-as-that-clash-royale-hee-hee-hee-haw-gif-25054781 [14:57:51] https://tenor.com/view/elmo-shrugs-idk-gif-3543925631583865946 [14:57:53] "too tired, guess I'll die now" [14:58:39] I do love me some tabletop logic [15:00:49] I’m still surprised it doesn’t knock you unconscious [15:01:14] Probably because the main way you get exhaustion is by refusing to sleep. [15:01:38] That and a few high CR undead with weird actions. [15:02:53] If the effect of refusing to sleep was that you sleep, that would (however accurate) essentially undermine the choice of not sleeping that you took to get there. [15:03:45] True [15:05:12] But like, at some point, you reach the point where staying awake isn’t physically possible [15:05:19] And that’s probably before the you die point? [15:05:39] Unless something else is making it more impossible to sleep [15:08:05] The way they've done it is that you reach the point where it's very advisable that you sleep and most if not all players will, but it's still possible to prevent sleep if that's your villain scheme or combat strategy - I believe night hags (according to the lore) are supposed to stop you sleeping rather than fighting you directly. [15:10:23] Checks out, and would be very interesting, if difficult to play out [15:13:32] Barbarian nonsense would like to have a word.🤣 [16:04:06] My first PC was a Goliath Barbarian too [16:04:32] Though I stopped playing D&D after one campaign and now I mostly play LANCER, GURPS and Pathfinder. [16:06:05] My current PC in Pathfinder is an Elfen bard ventriloquist and she's very fun. [16:08:01] (if it's not clear from my PFP, I love playing rock-people lol) [17:34:10] [1/3] The dawn bell tones in Miraheze-land, with an graven sound. The yellow-and-brown banners of Miraheze hang from poles around the granite-brick plaza. The Miraheze building stretches ahead, a construct of granite built in a Gothic style. Flying buttresses arch gracefully and light shines off stained glass windows with the Miraheze honeycomb. The sun glints off bronze rails and wind rus [17:34:10] [2/3] les in the leaves of the planted trees. In the plaza stands Eytirth, an albino girl clad in purple. The wind tousles her long white hair. [17:34:10] [3/3] What do you think Miraheze would look like? [17:57:32] We encountered this issue when we tried to trim our 2000-line Common.css written 2 years ago. Fortunately a workaround was found, otherwise we'd have to undo some of these CSS migrations. [18:09:49] I have a bunch of style sheets - one for light mode temples, one for dark mode templtes... [18:19:16] is this a miraheze fanfiction [18:21:54] I guess, or RP starter [18:22:09] one question: is miraheze-land at war with fandom-land [18:22:23] It can be I guess, as that would be a pretty cool plot point [18:22:34] What if they are kinda in a cold war over things like users and wikis?> [18:23:11] we need a wiki for this frfr [18:23:31] where is wikimedia-land in all of this [18:23:41] Watching, as they know they are safe in their power [18:25:51] we know shoutwiki is in its end-stage [18:25:51] horrific decline [18:28:37]