[07:09:07] hello all [11:26:50] hellor [11:47:29] Hi [12:21:09] [1/2] #concept [12:21:09] [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615786602454581249/1526926593958871160/4ae5cfc5-f6e8-450f-95b4-701ad72778d7.mp4?ex=6a58ccb4&is=6a577b34&hm=7ae53a02c62a2cbcfac57acdb582c7f6f96c4b007dbb6ecb45ddd727367fa7c7& [12:54:44] Dear god, they have IRC now... [12:56:22] only scary when I follow through and properly go irc too [13:08:22] crystalite's always been an ircer [13:11:26] sick [13:25:20] Shapes a:blathers_nod: [13:39:38] hello! [13:47:33] Hi! [13:48:23] how are yuo? [13:50:26] Pretty good, just woke up ish and need breakfast [13:50:48] needs more WHIMSY! [13:51:18] [1/2] one of these or smt [13:51:18] [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615786602454581249/1526949281456591068/image.png?ex=6a58e1d6&is=6a579056&hm=d64a3f4f80450fc05bba803d2f1ec3234aa842e0f73a44bf42bf2a6857a086a0& [13:51:34] a cat mayhaps [13:52:57] Mmmm [13:53:03] Art still consistency though [13:55:02] brekfast 🤤 [13:55:02] anyways [13:55:02] messing around with my wiki, halcyonsoftworks.miraheze.org [13:58:59] what should i say as an introduction... [13:59:13] also thanks to anyone who accepted tje request i apprecie yall [14:01:37] how do i spell wether [14:03:05] Whether [14:03:09] Or weather [14:03:27] tysm [14:03:32] Np [14:04:08] -# fair, just a lil tired of all websites looking the same (ik its a concept ofc) [14:05:30] : D [14:06:58] is this a good thing [14:07:13] https://whostacking.github.io/miraheze [14:07:58] yes [14:08:05] I told you before [14:08:26] To me, Miraheze has the asthetic style of a preschool wallpaper [14:08:32] [1/2] guys if you wanna check out my wiki, go to www.halcyonsoftworks.miraheze.org [14:08:32] [2/2] please dont grief anything [14:08:38] or my soul [14:09:48] [1/2] theoretically how could i get this to actually be on the miraheze.org domain [14:09:48] [2/2] do i need to make some rfc [14:11:02] Uh, actually approval would be a Tech decision, but I think it'd see it pass through community ratification [14:11:10] @reception123 what do you think [14:12:06] I think in the past we have had votes for designs [14:12:13] Iirc MacFan4000 organized one of them? (Could be wrong) [15:09:36] [1/2] the concept shown looks like several vibe-coded website designs i've seen [15:09:37] [2/2] that's to say it's a bit generic, would there be anything to make it stand out? [15:23:53] [1/2] id vote no for the 1.4mb hero image [15:23:53] [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615786602454581249/1526972579636711435/image.png?ex=6a58f788&is=6a57a608&hm=b3270a03ca544447b82b1ead88e4250e69b183ace83e5f3b395a9448438971ba& [15:25:40] [1/2] the blur [15:25:41] [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615786602454581249/1526973031472304148/image.png?ex=6a58f7f4&is=6a57a674&hm=edc48b84b800f4cc0b31cef50a310e05973d7fcf59d44ece0b0108cd1d3a6fc8& [15:25:46] [1/2] these buttons [15:25:47] [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615786602454581249/1526973055992336435/image.png?ex=6a58f7fa&is=6a57a67a&hm=627a985ce1512af74587bd217babf8c3374baedea0cfa120c8b97263e2b00ae3& [15:25:52] [1/2] these animations [15:25:52] [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615786602454581249/1526973079375446016/image.png?ex=6a58f7ff&is=6a57a67f&hm=a517b59560f6ad3816a625ea535e6cab4faf08e89a2fe6092ba62beedc45d5f5& [15:25:59] [1/2] these animations [15:25:59] [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615786602454581249/1526973109687812236/image.png?ex=6a58f807&is=6a57a687&hm=c68bd7177267a83d9a1e1fde97daa71fbf86cc2bdee2aeec35b81c12d8947145& [15:26:09] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615786602454581249/1526973150238343208/image.png?ex=6a58f810&is=6a57a690&hm=589474605b1ccf2dd65c6560cb6d246078d3b6fcd673254dc97e9dd2b3aaad8e& [15:27:01] let me pull it up [15:27:08] personally i like the shapes in the BG [15:27:29] the top image im curious about the source but I think it's adorable [15:27:44] Though I'd make them slower [15:28:40] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615786602454581249/1526973782412099605/image.png?ex=6a58f8a7&is=6a57a727&hm=fd535425f33d407af3311ea1e46af2a8adbe17cdbde22f6544ad00df1646e0a6& [15:28:40] the 'squish' animation could work if it was a bit more subtle [15:30:24] if it is AI than im putting it on a pike tho [15:30:38] replace every single square with a hexagon 🤩 [15:30:53] I just noticed the animated footer [15:30:55] likey [15:30:59] AI generated hero image aside, its not built for performance [15:32:03] There may be things to say about accessibility but I'm not the one to say [15:32:19] [1/2] yes [15:32:19] [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615786602454581249/1526974700645777536/image.png?ex=6a58f982&is=6a57a802&hm=6c9e2b4fce51ddcb8bad453c8f6320ac69201b7603c406b30075d715c86b1f38& [15:32:43] contrast being one of them [15:34:01] [1/2] fancy as hell homepage then you get to any wiki and it looks like uh, not that [15:34:01] [2/2] then again the current homepage also looks pretty different from the actual website so what do i know [15:34:19] Yeah that part is pretty funny [15:34:26] But yeah [15:35:03] going from https://whostacking.github.io/miraheze/ to https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Special:WikiDiscover?category=sports is odd [15:35:10] also what is going on here [15:35:21] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615786602454581249/1526975464671805440/image.png?ex=6a58fa38&is=6a57a8b8&hm=33088ab59733eb6d78b2cbba92504cbf8559ac71bc934a3190c5679d6936a0a5& [15:35:34] also squared who thought ⚠️ was the icon to use for WikiDiscover [15:35:54] do we actually not have a single sport wiki [15:35:55] no way [15:36:15] okay nvm [15:37:15] [1/2] it's a warning for all the wikis you'll find [15:37:15] [2/2] a magnifying glass would probably fit better [15:37:42] im checking the lsit now [15:38:04] Having hats is great because somethign pisses me off and I can just fix it [15:38:26] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:OOjs_UI_icon_tag-ltr-invert.svg [15:38:34] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:OOjs_UI_icon_articleSearch-ltr-invert.svg [15:38:48] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:OOjs_UI_icon_browser-ltr-invert.svg [15:39:48] imageGallery also [15:39:50] that tag icon is cool [15:40:43] lemme ask in the meta channel [15:42:33] Quicklock [15:59:21] [1/2] unfortunately the hero image is ai generated. i tried looking for similar images online and they didnt have the vision that i had in mind. i can get rid of it if it makes it past the miratech approval stage [15:59:21] [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615786602454581249/1526981505253900318/image.png?ex=6a58ffd8&is=6a57ae58&hm=956a5965cbae34857784080d7d3f3f306144cfc2e4bf7808e76a59420d47dc00& [16:00:49] I think for a lot of people it would be a major point of opposition in the community stage [16:01:08] thats understandable honestly. i'll try to see if there are alternatives like this [16:01:20] and doesn't make people eager to fairly evaluate the good stuff [16:10:17] son [16:11:12] its been removed [16:16:42] i can draw it! [16:16:49] jus need a drawing tablet [16:16:52] (brokie) [16:27:50] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615786602454581249/1526988671285461102/image.png?ex=6a590685&is=6a57b505&hm=d1cfe373314b158bbbbef645940dc6c0d8c5d77df8edb706f2bfedd3b978c26c& [16:36:03] i tried playing it safe because i dont want to make it too playful then end up affecting accessibility [16:36:36] i've applied the issues, do let me know what you think @kai84 @pixeldubs [16:36:44] Omfg wrong ping [16:36:49] @pixldev [16:39:04] I do like the concept [16:40:32] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615786602454581249/1526991871467851888/image.png?ex=6a590980&is=6a57b800&hm=604453f6ba9c1fe67cd1316f1ab33930c151be9014a2b1650f334602ae0d55f3& [16:40:35] theres also this discover page i made https://whostacking.github.io/miraheze/discover [16:40:43] Boy [16:41:10] id say just remove the button bounce anim altogether [16:41:25] but its cute though is it not [16:41:38] interesting! [16:41:45] would agree it is cute [16:42:06] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615786602454581249/1526992264964870266/20260715-1642-16.6355001.mp4?ex=6a5909de&is=6a57b85e&hm=2d736a50d4ba6976371b689a1c15e1140a18129f2cc69284206f859628e45719& [16:42:28] ? whats wrong with it [16:42:36] idk the technical term [16:42:44] sub pixel rendering on objects that move [16:43:00] like when u scale() an image on hover and it shifts [16:45:25] looks great though [16:45:43] [1/2] made another silly thing [16:45:43] [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615786602454581249/1526993175015723039/the_balloon.png?ex=6a590ab7&is=6a57b937&hm=7d2659d73c662c0d48a8aed5bc23ca603a1b0b9b7d75833462dc0feac99d306f& [16:58:19] Why do the social links at the bottom look off? In the orange hexagons? I can't describe it but they don't all look proportionate to one another? [17:00:31] On the face of it the existing Miraheze website reads as probably AI generated also so 🤷 [17:00:42] Not that I support that but to me it feels neither here nor there [17:02:00] i can help make a replacement if you want [17:02:32] at the very least it reads as corporate which I've always been meh about [17:02:43] sure [17:02:59] but I am disproportionately biased to favor indie jank to suggest a site is more genuine in nature, and polish is often a red flag despite my shtick also often being to polish things [17:03:29] to me the meta main page is more attractive in nature than any landing page [17:06:47] [1/2] there's gotta be some way to polish it a bit in a way that also does not give off the corporate scam site vibes [17:06:47] [2/2] there are several wikis that have certain good elements to their design in this regard, sometime i will go find some for inspiration [17:06:55] i do appreciate there being attempts to polish though [17:07:31] there is nothing more genuine than tasteful inspiration by member sites certainly [17:08:08] one thing that I'm kind of wondering about flinging at miraheze monthly is something like a screenshot of the (every few?...) month to highlight a wiki that just looks really neat [17:08:33] re: landing page. I personally <3 what has been done with https://miraheze.org/. The only change I feel it needs is the accompanying logotext 'Miraheze' next to the honeycomb should have a different font/style/size [17:08:36] with a few samples to go on perhaps a few things could be highlighted on the landing page as well [17:09:09] A "Featured wiki(s)" could be a useful additional section to the Miraheze Monthly newsletter [17:10:26] heh not sure why this is in "offtopic" since so it's such a Miraheze meta discussion (lowercase m intentional :p), which is very much on-topic [17:10:28] more or less met by the wiki highlights function I think [17:10:41] channel topicality has always been our... less than strong suit [17:10:47] heh [17:42:16] for wikis designed with fair-use materials, it's reasonable on the wiki itself bc the wiki itself is for commentary or introductive purpose of the work/franchise of the materials. but i wonder if screenshoting them to introduce the wiki (instead of the work/franchise) or the wikifarm can qualify as fair use [17:44:00] even when i want to upload screenshots for local help page related to wiki usage (instead of work Introduction purpose), i would always like to disable the css background image before screenshoting [17:48:43] I don't think it would be a big enough deal but I suppose that is a risk assessment for TS to make [17:48:52] it would be more on the vein of screenshotting say, the main page [17:50:07] I agree. fwiw, I'm having trouble distinguishing between the difference between the former. For the latter, if you mean including a screenshot becomes the background for your wiki's page, then it's less about providing criticism of that product/service/etc. [17:51:36] recognizing the ^ is derived primarily from my interpretation of Fair Dealing regulations, which are even more restrictive than Fair Use [17:52:09] for example a game wiki has some game materials on its mainpage, and this use is fair use bc the wiki is introducing the game. but when you screenshot the mainpage to introduce the wiki instead of the game, can the materials in the screenshot get exempted? [17:52:12] it might be yet another matter if it was a commercial platform doing ads and stuff a la fandom making that call verses something donation driven without promotion, and given fandom doesn't seem to have scruples in this category it does not seem to be a high risk. The worst typically possible is a) a wiki doesn't care to test that or b) a rights holder will say no and we comply [17:52:52] and I say we comply because even if we could claim to have the right semantically, I do not see the value in expending platform resources for a non essential function based on a right that can only be asserted through court expenses [17:53:11] and when uploading the file to meta or commons, which licensing template should apply? [17:54:13] good question [17:56:01] ofc there's no problem for wikis designed w/o such copyrighted fair-use materials. here's my concern. if it's some cc licensing then i can crop the copyrighted part and claim it's cc bc it's derived from cc [17:56:48] > it might be yet another matter if it was a commercial platform doing ads and stuff a la fandom making that call verses something donation driven without promotion, and given fandom doesn't seem to have scruples in this category it does not seem to be a high risk. The worst typically possible is a) a wiki doesn't care to test that or b) a rights holder will say no and we comply [17:56:48] +1. Your wiki could also have a proactive local take down process to start with [17:57:40] for the Commons licensing question, I'd go with Fair Use and explain how, precisely, and where, explicitly, it will be used [17:58:17] i understand the risk is fairly low and i just have concerns about the licensing template bc it's uploaded [17:58:26] fairuse sounds quite fair [17:59:12] after all, not to mention fandom, ppl are screenshoting them to social media every day [18:00:02] > ofc there's no problem for wikis designed w/o such copyrighted fair-use materials. here's my concern. if it's some cc licensing then i can crop the copyrighted part and claim it's cc bc it's derived from cc [18:00:02] if you have evidence you can link to the original image on which that derivative work is based, do include a link to that, so it can be verified that your cropped/derivative work is based on that and not a cropped version of a copyrighted image I'd say [18:01:17] remember Fair Use is a defense against copyright infringement. how reasonable is your defense? What you've described and the measures you've described and have been suggested sound reasonable to me, as a layperson [18:01:31] calling fair use and riding until there is substantive question or a better approach would sound good to me [18:01:48] +1 [18:02:18] on these things and the reason I tend to have a somewhat more casual approach is because ultimately the correct way to proceed is not to walk over and shoot us on the spot for getting it wrong, no, more than likely the rights holder sends a polite email, worst case a more professional one in which we handle it and move on [18:02:37] yep, exactly [18:02:45] and indeed we tend to be far more considerate of such things than well, most of the internet outright [18:02:56] wiki space is one of the stiffest places I know on the subject [18:03:26] so actually local wikis don't really need so many complicated fairuse templates, bc they can otherwise also either exist or get dcma-ed [18:03:43] worse case, copyright owner initiates a take down request, T&S or stewards assess it, and remove it (or don't). [18:03:56] yes maybe i've been wasting a lot of time on that [18:03:57] > wiki space is one of the stiffest places I know on the subject [18:03:57] heh true [18:04:08] most wikis can get away with very little over the course of their entire lives [18:04:21] there've been cases of plagiarism in respected, published academic journals :P [18:05:01] one can point at the big examples but the gap there quickly becomes money; if you're facebook you can copyright every pirated work in existence and effectively get away with it, or you just get away with it if you call ai even when you're a smaller entity [18:05:19] that was completely backwards lol [18:05:25] heh yes! [18:05:54] the gap for you and me is more obscurity and a majority of entities, even known for being dicks, having better times to do than pursue platforms operating in good faith [18:06:01] blame mediawiki bc they allow writing so many things in the files namespace! [18:06:32] wikipedia and related are what really set the industry unusual example, which to be fair is quite beneficial given the unique degree of everyday scrutiny they have [18:07:04] most social media allows you to upload pfps freely unless they receive takedown notice. they don't comment next to every pfp 'hey this is fairuse' [18:07:10] at least i tried 🙃 thanks everyone for your feedback [18:07:23] I liked it tbh [18:07:46] quite true honoka; I can find a few forums and platforms that particularly care, but they are very rare [18:08:36] np, it was a good discussion :) [18:08:45] mediawiki sites may also care only about file namespace and ignores pfp from extensions like userprofilev2 [18:09:20] [1/2] the moment i released this i added this in my project:copyrights [18:09:20] [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615786602454581249/1527014216098250752/image.png?ex=6a591e4f&is=6a57cccf&hm=916da5abb442a0cb54598f10abdf5062c809edcdd67f54613cd3e8c3ad4877b1& [18:09:21] yeah userprofile kinda breaks some default assumptions [18:09:27] unless it's nintendon't, most game developers don't bother about copyright of screenshots, just assign your image as fair use [18:09:32] speaking of SocialProfile, is that still not compatible with global user pages? [18:09:37] funny thing is even nintendo is inconsistent on that subject [18:09:52] * dmehus dislikes the SocialProfile extension [18:09:56] socialprofile is still a bloody mess tbh, v2 is rebuilt to be a lot simpler and works much better [18:10:02] heh [18:10:07] some things never change [18:10:08] probably still doesn't work with gup as I never heard otherwise [18:10:15] ah [18:10:37] and at some point years ago some formatting broke that made it look even worse without custom hackery, I always thought it might have been just me but pretty sure it was for everyone and nobody really cared [18:26:28] We only really have a few FU templates to categorize files easier, otherwise they're basically all the same lol. [19:23:53] Nope, two extensions can't both control the output of an article; V2 provides the `onUserProfileAfterMasthead` hook which could theoretically be called to add the contents but I haven't really tried it [19:33:42] [1/2] In an old electronics store [19:33:43] [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615786602454581249/1527035450391531711/IMG_0885.jpg?ex=6a593216&is=6a57e096&hm=0cbbec764fb985bca7cd5aab1d3fd6bdf70f1d7b5e5e8711cc6c2e1efb60f722& [23:43:10] so let me know if I've got this straight. TheWWRNerdGuy is Skye's minion and Crystalite13 is TheWWRNerdGuy's minion. Does Crystalite13 have any minions, and how many minions do each of the three have? :ThinkerMH: [23:44:17] Ohhh, you missed the orignal context of everyone switching their discord nicknames to some version of skye's minion army [23:44:28] That was a good april fools gag [23:44:49]