[00:07:51] hi [00:59:39] good night (3am for me) [01:00:12] https://klipy.com/gifs/tiktok-confused [01:34:41] Have you checked out the independent SMT wiki? [01:35:08] [01:37:22] LOL [01:47:04] I ate Fandom's servers and got advertisements. [01:51:00] If you eat Fandom's servers you are an advertisement at that point [01:51:34] I'm the holy advertisement, then. I advertise wicker baskets. XD [01:52:31] Ehh, somewhat acceptable [01:52:54] It's a lot better than Fandoon's ads. I'm keeping that typo. [01:53:08] Fandooms [01:54:33] FanDOOM can run DOOM. [01:54:45] I mean I think anything with a CPU can run doom [01:56:38] That also works. I forgot to rephrase it. [01:58:37] <.labster, replying to justanotherdarkmodeuser> I'm starting to worry if we have the capacity to take everyone when Fandoom finally goes fanboom. [01:59:21] We'll just buy out fandom's datacenter for cheap problem solved [01:59:55] but no seriously, I dont know for sure how many would migrate, because I'm not convinced they have as many truly active wikis as they claim [02:00:32] vs how many wikis they just have AI or paid staff "update" [02:00:34] <.labster> The RAM in Fandom's DC may be worth more than the company these days. [02:00:49] The racks themselves are probably worth more lol [02:01:11] they are probably like $10 racks [02:03:06] If we get Fandom's servers, we'd be good for a very long time. [02:03:22] until their servers finally stop working lol [02:03:54] <.labster> Fandom owns GameFAQs and TV Guide. [02:04:18] They own TV Guide how the hell that happen [02:04:35] and no one TV guide is so crappy lol [02:05:06] <.labster> to be fair they didn't cause that, they've only owned it almost 4 years [02:05:36] but they didnt fix it either lol [02:05:53] <.labster> I mean, what is the point of TV Guide when you can stream stuff? [02:06:10] when you are stuck in the hospital with sat tv [02:06:53] I broke my iPhone so I had nothing but hospital tv, because I had to just be stuck with my second ever flip phone [02:07:03] <.labster> Yeah fair, you should stop spending so much of your life in the hospital, man [02:07:18] my grandma is in the ICU, we just be trading whos there [02:07:26] <.labster> Oh fuck [02:07:32] <.labster> Sorry mate [02:07:41] She's almost 80 [02:07:50] I mean its not shocking [02:07:54] <.labster> (I've been steaming Australian TV thus the "mate") [02:08:10] You and NA are going through a Aussie kick lol [02:08:19] Labster shall become Aussie Labster with NA? [02:08:45] <.labster> Yes, that pacifically [02:08:47] We need Aussie Labster and Aussie NA in NA. [02:08:54] damn you labster lol [02:09:59] <.labster> I take if you've seen Kath & Kim then [02:10:00] Labster is this the new where in the world is carmen sandiego [02:10:25] No but the pun [02:10:36] <.labster> The pun is from that show [02:11:00] <.labster> How did you know my parents were Carmen and Waldo? [02:11:29] https://klipy.com/gifs/taken-7 [02:14:44] <.labster> Fandom is owned by the same company as DirecTV. Wow, it's like a graveyard of corps over there. [02:15:41] [1/2] Even google wants people off fandom [02:15:41] [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615786602454581249/1528586162267095190/image.png?ex=6a5ed64c&is=6a5d84cc&hm=f08aac8d35e281b086e660ef59fc3053a97d40c167b621eb6c43efbc9a95be30& [02:16:00] That's hilarious [02:16:13] That made me howl! XD [02:17:23] Hmmm its 9:17pm I should eat dinner but that means getting out of my bed. [02:17:46] Teleport the dinner to your bed. [02:17:58] I havent unlocked teleportation [02:22:50] <.labster> I teleported that bit of Gemini over to Weird Gloop discord, as it must be shared. [02:23:17] LOL I wonder what they'll say [02:23:42] <.labster> Well, nothing yet, but I'm sure someone will comment. [02:24:08] <.labster> I suppose if you ask an AI who owns something, it assumes you're wondering why that something is so crappy. [02:24:26] [1/2] FWIW this is what google says about Miraheze [02:24:26] [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615786602454581249/1528588365312688179/image.png?ex=6a5ed85a&is=6a5d86da&hm=19863edc5dff321f1a76a608a26e6ffa51b30115d98801ea1eb125ae49ea1d5d& [02:24:38] so no it just assumed that for Fandom [02:25:13] <.labster> I mean, there's also reddit threads like this one: https://www.reddit.com/r/mildlyinfuriating/comments/1uy5q7h/being_forced_to_view_an_ad_to_continue_scrolling/?share_id=n2voL6mIJhZIO4O1ru6Tc&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_source=share&utm_term=1 [02:25:51] I really wanna know how people still use Fandom [02:26:06] <.labster> Ad blockers and pi holes. [02:26:28] <.labster> Also some of the pages they blocked like Recent Changes, you can access it via the API even though you're not logged in. [02:27:04] like 10 years ago I once deleted a wiki while logged out using their API (they've since patched it) [02:27:43] <.labster> I feel like that deserves a barnstar [02:27:58] I tried to delete the centralwiki but it wouldnt let me [02:28:10] so atleast they got that right [02:28:31] I mean it was reverted very quickly but still lol [02:29:04] Pro tip: secure API endpoints xD [02:29:57] <.labster> It's starting to seem like Fandom is at the "final squeeze" stage of late stage capitalism. [02:30:31] That they'll just convert to complete AI slop and fire all their staff [02:30:56] and just make it so AI creates and maintains wikis for everything [02:31:54] They'll probably haul AbuseFilter to full AI and have it block all wikis that had since left Fandom for their "walled garden". [02:32:30] they've been doing that for years tbh, if anyone even remotely mentioned migration on Fandom they'd get the boot and replaced with loyalists [02:32:59] it wouldnt shock me if they didnt have some AF to trigger on the mention of migration [02:35:03] atp they are just having a desperate attempt to hold on to being a leader in wiki hosting, which tbh even from an objective standpoint they've been failing to do for the last few years now. I honestly do think their "marketshare" will probably drop off to pretty much unsustainable levels within the next couple years [02:36:27] [1/2] They're desperate for anything. [02:36:27] [2/2] As for the first comment: Me either. It makes me glad that, even we're a fanon wiki as a whole, we left Fandom entirely in August 2025. [02:36:34] between us, .GG, and WG, we've basically cornered Fandom atp [02:37:04] We pretty much have done so, and for good reason. Cornered them like the dogs they are. [02:38:08] Tbh even compared to when I joined MH 9 years ago, we've growned tenfold at least almost certaintly more, just because of how bad fandoms gotten and such [02:41:07] And it's so true, too. Fandom's gotten so bad that even the GTA Wiki left, Minecraft Wiki left, Undertale/Deltarune left, and so on. It's a long laundry list that can reach all the way towards ShoutWiki. [02:41:49] ShoutWiki i think is pretty much dead, I dont think they are opearting very stable anymore [02:42:00] or last I heard atleast [02:43:00] <.labster, replying to wickerbasket2540> bro I like dogs [02:43:09] Last I checked, they're not doing so hot. [02:43:19] No offense to dog lovers! [02:43:21] I like cats and dogs [02:43:31] I miss having pets, damn landlord. [02:44:44] Landlords suck. 😭 [02:45:26] Mine doesn't, its just that one rule I dont like, but I only pay like 600 a month so 🤷 [02:45:58] RIP. [03:12:11] <.labster, replying to zppix> There are no apartments in my city for under $1700, how did you find something so cheap? [03:15:27] I live in the midwest lol [03:15:52] COL is not as high here [03:17:13] 10PM and still havent ate xD [03:18:04] Oh no. XD [04:53:46] yes, that is why I don't use the indie wiki buddy plug-in, because that wiki is less complete than the fandom one [06:31:53] Speaking of which, I asked Skye some time ago if Miraheze has the infrastructure to host all of Fandom's wikis that didn't move out [06:34:37] Probably cuz some wikis are still stuck there [06:37:15] Dunno if that wiki is on IWB, but usually, IWB only accepts wikis that are equal or better in content and activity than the Fandoom one [06:37:36] And even if it does exist, I think you can disable redirecting to that wiki [06:38:05] And be able to support the rest of the hundreds of beautiful wikis listed there 😉 [06:39:48] Fandoom is just a shell of a shell of a shell of its former self. Hope all of the amazing wikis still stuck there can find a new home soon. [06:54:32] [1/2] Fandom is the orphanage that the government forgot existed and could do whatever stuff they wanted [06:54:33] [2/2] Exaggerated of course, but still [06:55:26] More like the USA [06:55:55] Everything there is clearly crumbling and collapsing [07:03:41] We are absolutely not adequately scaled to do a whole fandom overnight, for many reasons. [07:05:08] They're still >10x our current size, with some truly massive wikis. [07:05:10] Once Miraheze can't take the load, it will affect the downstream farm WikiOasis too [07:05:33] And we would probably be cooked [07:05:54] And wiki.gg too [07:05:59] Chain reaction like the chemicals... [07:06:09] Which is already overwhelmed and backlogged with requests [07:06:15] Oh god [07:07:02] I suppose there is @originalauthority's telepedia project, but doubting it will go so well if mh gets overwhelmed quickly [07:07:29] I doubt they'll go anywhere overnight, though. Probably just become more and more inhospitable as they have been up to now and so continue to gradually force people out. [07:07:34] And smaller scale hosts may end up choosing a few wikis too [07:07:47] Unless that GTA case is successful, which might hit them hard. [07:07:59] Weird Gloop, ABXY, grifkuba, Twelve Worlds, etc. [07:08:17] Not worth spinning out over this hypothetical though. [07:08:42] Rare AI W [07:11:06] Is anyone (still) in Fandom server for any reason? I wonder if anybody there talked about the recent gta.wiki plagiarism incident or the AI tool controversy [07:11:17] It's just probabilistic based on the discussions people have been having that it's scraped. [07:11:21] My understanding is that the independent wiki doesn't have the financial capacity to pursue a legal case, so bad PR is probably where that story ends [07:11:24] (I can't check myself) [07:11:35] Ah. [07:11:57] So much for copyright protection. [07:11:59] I often ask it "which wiki is better: indie or fandom", and usually, it chooses indie for the reasons you mentioned lol [07:12:52] You're not gonna have many sources talking about wikis beyond Reddit or maybe X [07:13:14] And when they do, they usually praise indie wikis and never the Fandom versions [07:16:48] [1/2] Random example [07:16:48] [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615786602454581249/1528661940287705141/Screenshot_20260720_101544_Firefox.jpg?ex=6a5f1cdf&is=6a5dcb5f&hm=fe35d5f51afc93e29001d531fc555aa26a29289ba0f6618d3e7156ebaa2967af& [07:17:30] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615786602454581249/1528662118876839957/Screenshot_20260720_101638_Firefox.jpg?ex=6a5f1d0a&is=6a5dcb8a&hm=2944f46918a88b0d007a0ea37982518988080b8fd459db3258a19ad3e2095d42& [07:17:31] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615786602454581249/1528662122496659466/Screenshot_20260720_101714_Firefox.jpg?ex=6a5f1d0b&is=6a5dcb8b&hm=1de1032c6dd49738552268b79240bed249eb8b1f396f54499392d7fe037f6d06& [07:22:54] rare reddit w [07:24:07] Reddit is a useful site to be able to read even if it's not always a good one to be on. [07:40:28] Reddit is incredibly useful for wikis [07:41:46] I'm not denying its utility, moreso it's not always the most friendly or positive place. [08:28:24] <.labster, replying to notaracham> I was mainly joking anyway. [08:32:37] <.labster, replying to sakurababochka> I had my own version of this, basically a wiki owner unilaterally changed their license in response to a fork. http://blog.brentlaabs.com/2013/12/the-edge-of-creative-commons.html [08:34:48] <.labster> And then the owner person sold to another company. I sent a GDPR request to a lawyer I had met in person for only my userpage; he acknowledged receipt of the request with an "I'm sorry" and then never processed the request. [08:35:03] <.labster> Copyright protection really doesn't exist for the poors. [08:39:04] <.labster> It's also a really to be a less successful fork of a wiki, and to keep getting content copied over by friendly users which we have to reject because (1) license incompatibility and (2) it might be intrinsically copyvio on the part of the corporation. But as we've seen with AI, at a certain scale it's not a problem, it's a strategy. [09:38:45] (not to mention nobody has ever litigated the Creative Commons license before) [09:39:10] Probably because a large portion of the internet is respectful and respects such licenses [09:39:16] (oh and then there's Fandom) [09:55:36] there's a corporate concept of cultivating goodwill to later cover for controversies down the line, and then there's fandom [10:08:21] Fandom is the perfect representation of late-stage capitalism and the corporate class. [10:10:38] Fandom is an advertiser-first business whose web pages, built by exploiting the poor, serve as placeholders for their main product, ad placements. [10:11:50] Most people hate Fandom, but wealthy shareholders and advertisers, who are also their main customers, like it. [10:12:58] Technically, this is one way you can frame what Fandom does at this point and it wouldn't be much of an exaggeration [10:17:10] it's failure as a business model - it's so evidently a failed product to anyone that looks at it, and yet it lives! [10:17:35] in terms of a business i think they are doing pretty well [10:18:33] with how public fandom hate is, im really surprised larger wikis arent forking [10:19:06] and its only getting worse, with the addition of the "watch an ad to continue" [10:21:10] i was shown an example yesterday where attempting to browse the honkai star rail fandom with certain adblockers installed, it will actively fight you [10:22:03] [1/2] with constant popups of this [10:22:03] [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615786602454581249/1528708559318286408/image.png?ex=6a5f484a&is=6a5df6ca&hm=d44457c7b28d9c06a4d7fdefba1921249fc0930044a192b9e9c3c3413f0560fd& [10:22:37] ubo spoils me rotten [10:22:41] A lot of those that wanted to move already did [10:22:52] But there are a lot more that didn't move yet for many reasons [10:23:23] Most commonly cited reason is the difficulty of forking [10:23:29] yes [10:23:31] its a ton of work [10:24:06] Yeah, but not for the reasons you think [10:24:13] Importing is the easy part [10:24:27] The harder part is getting your community to agree [10:24:50] And that's if they respond [10:25:36] Granted, in smaller wikis, there are plenty of cases where the few admins and active editors universally agree, making it easier to coordinate with them on forking [10:30:20] [1/2] Though at this point, the steps onto forking or preparing a fork of a wiki is like muscle memory for me, since I've forked around a dozen wikis: build a coalition, send a wiki/fork request, get approved and have the importing done, then work on the theme and change or fix a few things like interwiki links, coordinate your editors/admins to do something if necessary, publish the [10:30:20] [2/2] fork, then advertise it in related places like the topic's subreddit and submit it on indie wiki buddy [10:31:08] That's the general process that I came up with when forking a wiki [10:57:36] yeah we forked but our sister wikis didn't, and we only forked since fandom literally pushed us off the platform (so it was a full migration and not a fork) [10:58:11] and from discussing it with the admins on those wikis, they definitely are daunted by the idea of forking because they have very few editors [10:59:03] probably a vicious cycle where people are leaving fandom because it's fandom, but those stuck on fandom feel like they don't have enough people around to justify a migration [10:59:41] though you're right that those who've never forked definitely seem to mistakenly think the import/export is the hard part (it isn't); it's beating fandom SEO [11:00:08] True [11:00:53] I think some people cite this as their reason for not wanting to fork, rather than the import/export part [11:01:00] That part takes a lot of work [11:01:13] But in the end, I'd say it's worth it [11:02:06] Even if we don't win in SEO overnight, just the notion of not being on Fandom anymore makes me more than happy [11:02:23] Everything else would seem secondary to me on the day we fork [11:02:39] yeah though if fandom is legitimately going to start forcing people to watch ads before actually looking at content, they're shooting themselves in the foot [11:03:02] no way is most people going to watch an ad just to check something on a wiki; they'll most likely just go to the next one down the search engine list [11:03:31] As if they don't have enough ads [11:03:39] || most of them are not scrolling past the Google AI overview || [11:03:56] you're right and i don't like it lmao [11:04:05] Neither do I [11:04:39] Hot take, but I don't feel too bad about it [11:05:16] Mainly because we all are affected by it, not because it's my specific wikis or your specific wiki(s) only getting affected by AI overview [11:06:28] We're barely scraping by with fighting Fandom SEO anyway [11:07:39] Honestly though, as long as the wikis exist, they have a decent amount of content, have a decent community of editors and a good reputation, I don't feel too bad about AI overview and low SEO [11:56:53] It’s a bit less complete but the fandom wiki has a lot of fake information. Stats are often wrong and the history sections are filled with fake historic documentation. [12:56:17] I wonder what the % of people that see ads to the % that transition to a paying customer is [12:56:33] Like I wonder, what % of people who see this ad end up buying that product from that advertiser [12:56:50] Not at all related I'm just curious lol I'll have to look on Google Scholar about this [13:07:23] rough guess would be around 1% [15:06:50] I think not counting trailers for movies/games/books I can probably name five products in my life I bought from ads I saw on the internet and most of those are toys [15:51:06] Oh for sure, my response was to stem off the tide of folks after fretting as if this was an imminent future that was going overwhelm the other hosts tomorrow. [18:49:19] Crystalite13 [18:49:29] .. Crystalite13 [18:49:36] <@Crystalite13> [18:50:07] I don't like you [18:50:46] Shush [19:30:28] nukesme [19:30:36] ... nukesme [19:30:50] <@nukesme> [19:30:58] I hate you [19:31:03] Shut it [19:31:11] shush [19:31:14] I despise you [19:31:18]