[00:01:30] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac> DisambiguatorNotificators shows a notification when you link to a disambig page
[00:02:07] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac> VisualEditorEnableVisualSectionEditing is I think exactly what it sounds like but idk maybe it's unimportant
[00:02:47] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac> WikiEditorRealtimePreview is that very cool Preview button that opens a window to the side that refreshes in real time
[00:04:13] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac> [1/2] TemplateDataEnableCategoryBrowser lets you do this in TemplateWizard and VisualEditor
[00:04:13] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac> [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1006789349498699827/1496662946460209252/Screenshot_20260423_020331_Firefox.png?ex=69eab37d&is=69e961fd&hm=32286a2987cc1466dbae668ff133fdf5fb392a6586e8a5a218fbc2a78675bd1f&
[00:04:49] <MirahezeRelay>	 <posix_memalign, replying to kockaadmiralac> I think CA has a draft PR sitting for months which implements this feature: users can choose `wgMainPageIsDomainRoot` and the article path when requesting the wikis.
[00:05:26] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac> I guess that makes more sense
[00:07:02] <MirahezeRelay>	 <posix_memalign> Some of these settings may need to go into ManageWiki first. I didn't find TemplateDataEnableCategoryBrowser in mw-config.
[00:07:47] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac> Because it was introduced in like 1.45 lol
[00:08:29] <MirahezeRelay>	 <posix_memalign, replying to kockaadmiralac> If we do enable this by default I think it'll be kind of funny. We will go from a very conservative host that keeps upstream defaults and minimizes our own opinionated changes to the Arch Linux of distros (sort of) where we enable the lastest and greatest features for our users.
[00:09:05] <MirahezeRelay>	 <posix_memalign> TBH we should enable syntax highlighting by default before doing something more radical lol. And I think syntax highlighting will get its own share of controversy.
[00:10:47] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac> tbh I end up never using the realtime preview because I split my screen vertically so there's not enough space for another window showing the preview
[00:11:04] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac> And some skins probably won't like it (Cosmos)
[00:11:32] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac> (Vector 2022 is fine with realtime preview when you make it wide)
[00:11:36] <MirahezeRelay>	 <posix_memalign> Anyways I really gotta go eat. Once I'm back I will make some final additions to the RfF, look for any new suggestions if they come up, and start the vote.
[01:35:42] <MirahezeRelay>	 <posix_memalign> I was playing around with `wgVectorResponsive` and I'm not sure if it does anything now. The docs on mw.org says it doesn't do anything, and in the code it only makes a difference on https://github.com/wikimedia/mediawiki-skins-Vector/blob/6debcfe8aa68d2ba01e8a3a127a5bcc79bc4aab3/includes/SkinVector22.php#L81
[01:37:04] <MirahezeRelay>	 <posix_memalign> Oh it's the classic "showing a desktop viewport on mobile" problem. Yeah it's still useful.
[02:19:27] <MirahezeRelay>	 <posix_memalign> [1/2] https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Tech:Noticeboard/Request_for_feedback:_changes_to_default_MediaWiki_settings
[02:19:27] <MirahezeRelay>	 <posix_memalign> [2/2] ^ 2 more proposals from Kocka
[02:55:36] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac, replying to kockaadmiralac> If anything else can make the cut I'd suggest it be this, because we've had a recent discussion in here about accidental rollbacks and people seemed generally unaware that this is a preference they can toggle
[03:14:25] <MirahezeRelay>	 <janebuzjane> Syntax highlighting makes it so you can enter text on mobile source editor in 2010 editor which is a bug i meant to send somewhere like 4 months ago
[03:20:14] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac> Yeah CodeMirror is inconvenient on mobile
[03:22:06] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac> Entering text works for me though, did you test CM5 or CM6
[03:25:22] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac> Wait $wgCodeMirrorV6 doesn't even do anything anymore that should be removed from ManageWiki
[03:25:39] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac> But if you tested 4 months ago you were likely using CM5
[03:28:18] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac> nvm looks like I somehow failed to switch the branch, I should really be sleeping now
[03:32:53] <MirahezeRelay>	 <janebuzjane> [1/2] CM5 (rather, CM6 isn't selected in MW settings), 2010 toolbar, beta "improved syntax highlighting" set in preferences, Kiwi Browser, Android 16 on a Samsung S24 Ultra
[03:32:53] <MirahezeRelay>	 <janebuzjane> [2/2] Just ran into it yesterday so it's still around
[03:33:30] <MirahezeRelay>	 <janebuzjane> But yes that's why I said I needed to do more testing and exploration before submitting anything official 😛
[03:35:35] <MirahezeRelay>	 <ccxtwf> Beta "Improved Syntax Highlighting" just switches it to CM6 IIRC
[03:37:21] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac> Yeah that's CM6 then
[03:40:50] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac> They recently started work on splitting the usecodemirror preference between different editing modes, so maybe we can see if they can make it possible to disable CM on mobile by default while still leaving it on for desktop
[03:56:57] <MirahezeRelay>	 <posix_memalign, replying to janebuzjane> Probably a good task for [phabricator](https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/), especially if you can reproduce this on Wikipedia.
[04:03:09] <MirahezeRelay>	 <janebuzjane> Thanks y'all! I've got a good amount of test cases here, esp to test it on other farms. And thank u Petra for the phab link, it's good to know that's where something like this should typically go (/gen) (It's hard to know the source of a thing when there's so many upstream dependencies)
[04:08:40] <MirahezeRelay>	 <posix_memalign, replying to kockaadmiralac> [1/2] TBH I don't find this option necessary personally, though plenty of folks would find an extra confirmation useful (esp. on mobile), so I'm a bit conflicted whether I want to include this proposal.
[04:08:41] <MirahezeRelay>	 <posix_memalign, replying to kockaadmiralac> [2/2] Maybe I'll batch it together with other default user preference changes (enable edit recovery?). Or maybe we should encourage other users to propose changes to defaults that they don't like because the whole thing right now consists of settings that _I_ think should be changed, whether the idea came from myself or from others.
[04:34:11] <MirahezeRelay>	 <posix_memalign, replying to janebuzjane> [1/3] Phabricator is where bugs for MediaWiki and extensions maintained by the Wikimedia Foundation go (which includes all the Wikipedias and their sister projects). It can also be the bug tracker for other projects, but they are not the main focus. CM6 bugs would be a very good fit there since Phab is where CM6 development is tracked, and the maintainers wi
[04:34:11] <MirahezeRelay>	 <posix_memalign, replying to janebuzjane> [2/3] ll be more likely to fix something if the bug applies to Wikipedia.
[04:34:12] <MirahezeRelay>	 <posix_memalign, replying to janebuzjane> [3/3] Usually we ask users to go to Phorge because we can help diagnose whether it's a Miraheze problem or an upstream problem. If it's an upstream problem, tech can find out the appropriate place to report bugs (does the maintainer use Phab or GitHub?). But if something is reproducible on Wikipedia you can just go straight to the source.
[04:38:08] <MirahezeRelay>	 <posix_memalign, replying to posix_memalign> [1/2] Now that I think about this, if it is someone else's proposal I would probably vote abstain because accidental rollback is not something that bothers me personally. Not sure if I want to include it if I'm going to vote abstain as proposer.
[04:38:09] <MirahezeRelay>	 <posix_memalign, replying to posix_memalign> [2/2] @kockaadmiralac Are you willing to put yourself down as the proposer of this particular change? I can rewrite the intro so say something along the lines of "changes that I or other members of the community desire to make". And then we can have proposals that headed by different users.
[05:46:45] <MirahezeRelay>	 <posix_memalign> [1/2] I voted on all the proposals myself. Simply making a vote is so exhausting with 15 proposals (21 if you count sub-proposals). Fortunately the page has a nice DiscussionTools setup to reduce friction. 
[05:46:45] <MirahezeRelay>	 <posix_memalign> [2/2] Still waiting on Kocka, so I'll hold off opening the flood gates to see if he wants to add proposal 16.
[05:54:18] <MirahezeRelay>	 <posix_memalign, replying to rhinosf1> By disable do you mean puppet no longer syncs on test151? And I will make changes by editing the local file directly (in this case `/srv/mediawiki/robots.php`) for testing.
[05:58:05] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1, replying to posix_memalign> You can do that too
[06:07:46] <MirahezeRelay>	 <posix_memalign> I guess you originally meant disabling puppet across all servers and only sync manually on test151?
[06:07:57] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1> Ye
[06:18:24] <MirahezeRelay>	 <posix_memalign> Never mind. Files synced by puppet are owned by root. Maybe there's a workaround for me to edit it? If not, maybe we can relax constraints on MW Specialists on test151?
[06:23:22] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac, replying to posix_memalign> Yeah sure
[06:26:14] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac> I should be properly awake for that though
[06:27:51] <MirahezeRelay>	 <posix_memalign> No need to rush. I'm going to sleep soon and once I wake up I'll need to handle some other things, so the vote won't start until at least 12 hours later.
[08:02:21] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1, replying to posix_memalign> I can chown it once you stop puppet
[11:21:07] <MirahezeRelay>	 <thewwrnerdguy, replying to posix_memalign> syntax highlighting is evil
[11:24:19] <MirahezeRelay>	 <thewwrnerdguy> at least with visual editor I can disable it in global preferences. syntax highlighting I have to disable it on every wiki I want to edit
[16:43:10] <MirahezeRelay>	 <zipppee, replying to posix_memalign> could just change it so that they aren't owned by root in the manifests
[16:43:23] <MirahezeRelay>	 <zipppee> not sure if there would be a need for /srv/mediawiki/robots.php to be owned by root
[17:38:38] <MirahezeRelay>	 <janebuzjane, replying to posix_memalign> Coming back to this - trying to repro on Wikipedia but they open the Minerva source editor. I know `?useskin=vector-2022`, but is there a way to force vector 2022 on the mobile editing page instead of getting Minerva?
[17:39:10] <MirahezeRelay>	 <janebuzjane> adding that to the end of the editing URL doesn't work
[18:01:16] <MirahezeRelay>	 <thewwrnerdguy, replying to janebuzjane> if you're editing it would be `&useskin=vector-2022` since it already has `?action=edit`. however that might just be a mobilefrontend thing
[18:02:15] <MirahezeRelay>	 <janebuzjane> Thank you!! hell yeah reproducible on wikipedia 😎
[18:02:33] <MirahezeRelay>	 <janebuzjane> always forget & vs ?
[18:03:59] <MirahezeRelay>	 <thewwrnerdguy, replying to janebuzjane> `?` means start of query string, `&` is the delimiter between queries in the query string
[18:04:55] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pskyechology> [1/2] the and symbol means and
[18:04:55] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pskyechology> [2/2] (big surprise)
[18:05:53] <MirahezeRelay>	 <posix_memalign, replying to janebuzjane> [1/2] It makes sense that the WMF didn't fix/notice this since it is an uncommon path.
[18:05:53] <MirahezeRelay>	 <posix_memalign, replying to janebuzjane> [2/2] Wikifunctions only uses Vector 2022 without MobileFrontend, so you could try edit something a page like https://www.wikifunctions.org/wiki/Wikifunctions:Community_portal which would be easier to test (and convince the maintainers that this is a real use case affecting WMF wikis).
[18:07:58] <MirahezeRelay>	 <janebuzjane> Well, after a few more tests, I can't reproduce it on stock Chrome or Firefox so I won't report it - seems like a browser-specific CM bug rather than something on their end
[18:08:23] <MirahezeRelay>	 <janebuzjane, replying to pskyechology> the big surprise is how many extra queries you can have!
[18:08:54] <MirahezeRelay>	 <janebuzjane, replying to thewwrnerdguy> In my brain it's contextualized like ? is "oh there's more?" and & is "here's the rest, as requested"
[18:09:04] <MirahezeRelay>	 <janebuzjane> I just forgor
[19:10:56] <MirahezeRelay>	 <thewwrnerdguy> @abaddriverlol what's the reason for `$wmgDefaultRecentChangesDays` being restricted? context is https://github.com/miraheze/mw-config/pull/6364
[19:17:35] <MirahezeRelay>	 <abaddriverlol, replying to thewwrnerdguy> The tables grew too big on large wikis that had the option set to a high value
[19:20:03] <MirahezeRelay>	 <janebuzjane> For the PageImages and Popups - is the proposal to add them as default to all wikis, or only new wikis?
[19:22:58] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac> I guess Popups could be split into an old wikis/new wikis discussion
[19:23:07] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac> I'd probably support a new wikis approach
[19:24:11] <MirahezeRelay>	 <janebuzjane> Yeah I would support a new wikis approach for popups and pageimages but I'd oppose an all wikis so I want to be sure
[19:41:46] <MirahezeRelay>	 <_arawynn> I'd go with new ones too - especially for big(ger) wikis it'd probably a lot of work if they have to edit all the existing pages to make it work
[22:47:37] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac> [1/3] I published some tweaks I wrote for UT/DR wikis as separate extensions now
[22:47:38] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac> [2/3] <https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:FileCachebuster>
[22:47:38] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac> [3/3] <https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:TemplateStylesUnlimited>
[22:47:57] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac> Do you think those would be useful enough to open extension review tickets for
[23:01:23] <MirahezeRelay>	 <posix_memalign, replying to janebuzjane> Extension changes all apply to new wikis only.
[23:02:53] <MirahezeRelay>	 <janebuzjane, replying to posix_memalign> Thanks! 🙏
[23:03:10] <MirahezeRelay>	 <henry010806> [1/4] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1006789349498699827/1497009971542622448/image.jpeg?ex=69ebf6ae&is=69eaa52e&hm=b8aad2fa17c8d8660f0544d90db19a00cfc42eb8e4632c67b95a859b7a3a90df&
[23:03:11] <MirahezeRelay>	 <henry010806> [2/4] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1006789349498699827/1497009971886297158/image.jpeg?ex=69ebf6ae&is=69eaa52e&hm=1af3c32a05e22d95f4b2fcb7ccca1ba1aae0856808e8429c2b5b2cd5b1071ef3&
[23:03:11] <MirahezeRelay>	 <henry010806> [3/4] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1006789349498699827/1497009972213710999/image.jpeg?ex=69ebf6ae&is=69eaa52e&hm=4e2413b1726421a1a06f45722c5b0fb33c781a8f1723d0a6aa6ef5be9342cfe8&
[23:03:11] <MirahezeRelay>	 <henry010806> [4/4] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1006789349498699827/1497009972805111919/image.jpeg?ex=69ebf6ae&is=69eaa52e&hm=3b8f077cd10c060b7fb0240b0740e4717f209b7db4a31b6e430f839f68ad2430&
[23:04:51] <MirahezeRelay>	 <posix_memalign> Ok lemme remove the notice on top because it has confused people and link it in a few noticeboards.
[23:06:46] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pskyechology> oh my god there's 16 of them
[23:17:31] <MirahezeRelay>	 <thewwrnerdguy, replying to pskyechology> 23 days too late to say this
[23:21:20] <MirahezeRelay>	 <posix_memalign> If you count the sub-proposals there are more than 20 of them.
[23:23:45] <MirahezeRelay>	 <thomasqubert> [1/4] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1006789349498699827/1497015148538237019/image.jpeg?ex=69ebfb80&is=69eaaa00&hm=affad5a4ca70bcb4803460eb57baa2260fa2423c5c61517b7a7963bd2550eca8&
[23:23:46] <MirahezeRelay>	 <thomasqubert> [2/4] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1006789349498699827/1497015149385748522/image.jpeg?ex=69ebfb80&is=69eaaa00&hm=54683092214220ae4e8fb7645f3a53da2efd952b239befbcc8c8f90a1522a826&
[23:23:46] <MirahezeRelay>	 <thomasqubert> [3/4] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1006789349498699827/1497015150488588420/image.jpeg?ex=69ebfb81&is=69eaaa01&hm=8f40f51fd9213b67a93563d093648e6b672874b99307b630e865adf766d9277b&
[23:23:46] <MirahezeRelay>	 <thomasqubert> [4/4] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1006789349498699827/1497015151285506232/image.jpeg?ex=69ebfb81&is=69eaaa01&hm=f446b601f9252cac93affe2615559a193f23c1392c53a064699e2f0ce1e8f7d4&
[23:50:38] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac> Speaking of UrlShortener I'm trying it on every recently created wiki and it seems like I'm forbidden from creating short URLs on each of them
[23:51:24] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac> Which is also what happened to me on the Margin wiki so
[23:51:37] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac> It seems like the user experience is pretty broken for that extension lol
[23:53:08] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac> Given nobody complained on Phorge about it I feel like nobody actually used it
[23:57:46] <MirahezeRelay>	 <abaddriverlol> Works fine for me
[23:57:49] <MirahezeRelay>	 <abaddriverlol> You need to be logged in I think