[05:29:21] @raidarr @zppix https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/User:Zppix/User_space_policy should now be caught up with the comments. Any thoughts before I launch the RfC? [08:34:39] [1/2] this should be fixed [08:34:39] [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1225560610628964423/1529768694723379220/C9CF34CE-6404-41EA-991E-C98782431CA2.png?ex=6a63239e&is=6a61d21e&hm=f148a8221b1748beae2ab02a981b77866f3ef62d03fbc732182037a2b4aaf724& [08:34:48] small little typo if anyone can fix [08:35:06] @reception123 ^^ [08:35:23] after that pretty sure i can translate it [08:35:45] [1/2] hey...wheres my translate button 😭 [08:35:46] [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1225560610628964423/1529768975091892384/9CD00B96-302E-4D66-B7EE-B042C9C3789A.png?ex=6a6323e1&is=6a61d261&hm=24a88a912db6668fd850e6d9d35ad915455fd84e1345bd393752c37e5b9fbdbf& [08:36:27] miraheze is now in secondary school if it were a child :Partyheze: [08:41:07] https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Miraheze-11-year may possibly need to be move protected, i don't think there will be an valid reason to move this page (and allowing it will allow vandals to vandalize/rename the page to something bad) [10:20:34] last time I passed it around for feedback it needed work for informality, and it would be worth considering a carveout for 'gnoming' if any though that could also be part of the rfc [14:46:31] It did need to be edited for tone which I have done. What sort of carve out do you have in mind? [17:07:12] or 62 in dog years? 🙃 [17:09:45] 😭 [17:10:23] [[Main Page]] (checking on phone cause faster) [17:10:24]

[17:10:49] Typo is still not fixed yet lol [17:11:00] ... but we're not dogs. just a point of comparison. Like I would be 217 in dog years 😛 [17:11:07] (Should be july 2026 for the 11th aniv not 2025) [17:11:58] he may not have seen it yet and is busy. Might want to ping MacFan4000 by replying to your original message. He's pretty response to those sort of gnoming-type edits 🙂 [17:13:18] I pinged reception at that time since they were online on member list [17:13:55] yeah MacFan4000 uses IRC more [17:14:48] [1/2] > (Should be july 2026 for the 11th aniv not 2025) [17:14:49] [2/2] @Macfan4000: ^ @justanotherdarkmodeuser reported a small typo on Meta's Main Page when you're around [17:16:48] Also let translators translate the 11th aniv page [17:17:42] @justanotherdarkmodeuser: as in the 11th anniversary page is sysop-protected, or not yet prepared for translation? [17:29:42] [1/2] not preped for translation [17:29:42] [2/2] i can translate main page [17:30:45] the 11th anniv page itself is only autoconf prot [17:30:48] not sysop prot [17:31:34] ranging from courtesy updates of userboxes to typos, link corrections etc, basically the simple question of is userspace solo business by default even including these sorts of things which can range into grey, or is it more collaborative in these regards [17:36:18] Fixed year [17:36:30] [1/2] Expanding on Raidarr's comments, I also think we need an explicit mention under a new section, perhaps called "Inappropriate content" (rather than "Prohibited content") on using one's Meta user page as a song contest wiki. In that case, specific procedures can be developed to move it to a userspace sandbox (without a redirect) and the user guided on their user tal [17:36:30] [2/2] k page how to request their own song contest wiki and and export it to their new wiki once created [17:37:04] it would be worth a discussion about [17:37:13] I am personally far more libertarian in what I feel is okay for meta space [17:37:35] I would rather people do their two page business in meta userspace than request an entire wiki for negligible content [17:37:47] If someone wants to put a recipe for banana pudding as their userpage, weird choice, but whatever. [17:37:58] conversely if the answer is an incubator that is cool too [17:39:10] True, though there is also a separate RfC re: Loginwiki, which would pose technical challenges for multiple edits to one's (now global) song contest wiki user page [17:39:35] in that event more strict guidelines on the subject would be warranted [17:39:43] totally, I'm pretty flexible as well with respect to user pages. Random characters, blank pages, all fine. That's why I think we have to be more explicit [17:39:58] I almost wonder if a better default is to slightly bury it and make the global page a subpage, not the landing page itself [17:40:00] It does happen fairly frequently [17:40:02] if possible [17:40:16] User:Raidarr/gup [17:40:18] or whatever [17:40:43] well yeah, that's all conditioned on that proposal passing, but yes, I think moving it to a sandbox would achieve that same aim [17:40:55] I mean moving the global page itself [17:40:57] if they request a wiki, great. If not, they can keep editing it in their sandbox on Meta [17:41:52] as for the user page I don't really care what people do with their main one and consider the sandbox move an unnecessary point of bureaucracy, if the meta userpage is not global which I'd personally not consider ideal but if it is so then that would be an issue to directly address [17:42:00] Oh, you mean on Loginwiki? I was thinking fourth-dimensionally to if Proposal 2 in a still draft Loginwiki envisioning RfC passed [17:42:18] Someone just needs to implement https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T402628. It's a weird situation where both community consensus and WMF's code review are required for this to go through and neither is simple. [17:42:20] login wiki would not need to exist and global userpage would be a userspace subpage on meta [17:42:38] so this is really what I'm hoping for them [17:42:48] oh, okay, fair, yeah I guess I'd be fine with that then if Meta user page stays a local page. Still would be nice to encourage them to request their own wiki though 🙂 [17:43:09] interesting, thanks for the link [17:43:11] I think its nice if it makes sense for the scale of content [17:43:27] if what you want is less than five pages then you're not really making a wiki in a coherent technical sensei n my mind [17:43:43] and it is wiki for the sake of wiki, I consider wiki a good tool for many jobs, not a tool to be used for its own sake [17:44:14] true, or we could tell them about Scratchpad Wiki or Incubator Wiki (Miraheze version) [17:44:27] that would be an adequate solution [17:44:50] though I'd personally lean against the whole wiki for it unless the justification was stronger than getting things out of meta space as well [17:45:06] if it had options like per-page theming it would be pretty cool and technically justify the venture to me [17:45:18] Shove all the loginwiki pages into a GlobalUser namespace on meta? 😅 [17:45:39] globaluser enforced with abuse filter or whatever would sound adequate [17:45:53] [1/2] This also elides one other question I don't know if folks have thought about: [17:45:54] [2/2] What to do with all the templates that exist on loginwiki/templates that conflict with meta templates by the same name [17:46:09] Honestly, seems easier to just leave loginwiki be than fuss with it further. [17:46:19] I guess it would be a merge [17:46:24] I think I'd prefer a separate Global User Page Wiki in that instance, but don't really see a compelling reason to move away from Loginwiki [17:46:56] all in all it doesn't feel like we save a lot by nixing login while introducing unpleasant questions if we do [17:47:10] Re translation of the anniversary page, per a previous RFC only pages on the approved list on https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Meta:Translators#Pages_to_be_translated will be translated [17:47:24] Yes, though I would support a migration project to migrate certain templates from Loginwiki and Meta Wiki to Dev Wiki [17:48:00] It's one of those 'we would have done it differently today, but unwinding it is a lot of work with limited benefit' [17:48:01] in general having a common template core we use ourselves and also make the default to offer wikis as the simplest path to their own system would seem intuitive to me [17:49:05] @posix_memalign Can you set `$wgVisualEditorEnableWikitext` on `communitieswiki` to `true`? It's consistent with Meta's configuration and is much improved for those wanting to use VisualEditor with source editor? [18:04:36] Okay, this might be a boaty mcboatface type things, but I do kinda want to rename loginwiki to guppywiki. 😄 [18:04:43] Because GlobalUserPage [18:05:08] <_arawynn> MiraGuppy 😂 [18:06:22] :SupportMH: [18:06:51] Done [18:07:05] _add it to the rfc_ [18:07:24] I know what I'm doing when I'm not under a timecrunch [18:09:12] Now if only MS Azure would stop having an incident I could get my work done in a timely fashion [18:21:40] @posix_mealign: ty :) [18:21:50] @posix_memalign* even [18:22:19] > Okay, this might be a boaty mcboatface type things, but I do kinda want to rename loginwiki to guppywiki. 😄 [18:22:19] Not opposed... [19:21:12] Not possible [19:39:03] [1/2] i wonder is it allowed for the director of safety to claim they completed the training themselves [19:39:03] [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1225560610628964423/1529935896026026004/D98F4814-ADA1-42A5-AE15-A07446C88067.png?ex=6a63bf56&is=6a626dd6&hm=6a3a66ef3c2896121c9d45d03aa06af925abc6e51ad8be29750904d1a187dcfe& [19:39:07] just curious [19:42:01] I imagine it would become apparent if they hadn't actually had any training because they'd have no idea what they were doing. [19:42:51] Completion of required training documentation would be reported by the Director of Trust and Safety to the Board of Directors, who could require verification of said documentation. Theoretically, potentially. Practically, no. [19:43:04] Eh, if we couldn't trust our director of trust and safety with that much, they shouldn't be director of trust and safety. Or probably a director at all. [19:43:22] 💯 [19:44:20] I do find it funny how NotAracham has swapped between the regular account and staff account for signing off on the list [19:46:12] Heh [19:46:31] funny but also exceedingly transparent, yeah [19:47:22] Now that I've got official account set up in browser two, it's a lot less annoying to sign [19:48:28] I suppose it doesn't really matter for things that don't need any special buttons. [19:49:01] Yeah, the identity is known and doesn't require any special official-only access, but still best practice [19:49:20] As switching between does look silly, as void says. 😄 [19:50:23] > Now that I've got official account set up in browser two, it's a lot less annoying to sign [19:50:23] yes, when I did T&S for the former Miraheze Limited, I installed Brave web browser (shudder) for that sole purpose. I probably should've picked a better browser [19:50:57] LGTM, sorry for delayed reply. [19:51:45] @notaracham: yeah, agreed [19:53:09] I use firefox containers for official account stuff, idk if that's any better or worse than separate browsers [20:01:24] What browsers do you use 👀 [20:03:08] Chrome for stupid work reasons, Firefox, Edge, and am also toying around with migrating stuff to Zen browser [20:03:17] Oh, and Island browser for work things [20:04:32] [1/2] Wait why don't you use island rather then chrome [20:04:33] [2/2] They're both work stuff no? [20:04:39] Unless they're different work things.. [20:04:42] Different flavors of work thing, yes [20:19:46] i like zen browser but [20:19:56] it feels... weird to use [20:19:58] the training is completely negligible so not really, but the above answers fill in [20:20:05] about to look at the userspace policy thing now [20:20:51] Yeah, for those who have ever had any sort of PII training in the past for a job, it's absolutely a very introductory rehash [20:21:21] For those who have never worked with user data before, there might be a few new things. [20:22:47] PII training can all simply be boiled down to, if the average user cannot see it, best rule of thumb is to not disclose it publically. [20:23:34] the sum of its insights would fit within this post and simply reading that be a better use of your time from a learning perspective, but it is of some material value from a compliance/see we made effort perspective [20:38:59] i keep readin PII as Portable Infobox [20:39:50] interesting :face_with_monocle: [20:39:50] wouldn't that be PI though? [20:52:06] PI infoboxes [20:56:10] [1/2] yeah the GDPR-specific stuff was useful, I've had general privacy teaching in University e.g. don't store stuff if you're not gonna use it. But that didn't cover specific rights/obligations. [20:56:11] [2/2] Although it did get a bit annoying when all of the courses were the exact same lmao [20:59:31] I think we'd really be best served by compiling homebrew insights, knowledge and practice on that and other subjects, but of course who has the disposable time and energy to do all that [20:59:46] you see how my VD is going just trying to apply that principle for community roles [21:00:10] I say 'my' loosely because the best thing that could happen is other people adopt it or at least equally throw in [21:20:26] The data protection training is too generic imo [21:20:56] It's a fairly bog standard set of training that will feel familiar if you've ever done mandatory training at a job [21:21:35] I think we'd do a lot better by developing something specific about appropriateness of using tools like CU and OS and viewing private wikis etc [21:23:58] Definitely something I'd like as well should I ever have more free moments. [21:25:28] True for most of our tech folks, but with a fully volunteer team, we run the gamut of life experience, so we do have the occasional person who wouldn't know PII from pie. [21:31:38] I would recommend that stuff be recorded on a page we can fling at people when onboarding and or even made part of the onboarding template [21:31:53] expanding on the devlopment of the gp onboarding template [21:32:11] then it not only covers the knowledge basics but can do work for miraheze specialization as well [21:33:10] Good idea, will add that to my to do lost [21:37:34] flashback at NA's near infinite to do list [21:38:45] its a thing we're only going to get done opportunistically tbh and may very well happen in informal fashion around the next onboard time... unless your list is chewing faster than mine [21:39:12] but in that case it would appear as informal as-remembered reminders and can expand as time goes on [21:42:14] I actually made forward progress on the total item count, so that's something [21:47:28] it is definitely an infinite to-do list [21:50:56] True. The 'announcement guidelines' channel for people with announcement rights was one of those things. [21:51:04] Thankfully that one has remained crossed-off [22:41:13] I’ve never doubted our community’s ability to do a better training. I am mostly concerned that we have to be sure the training is correct and specifically applicable to our situation, which would likely mean some kind of professional review lawyer or otherwise [22:43:21] Basically I would want the training to be reality checked against someone with an external perspective