[08:31:33] Hello WinRT! If you have any questions, feel free to ask and someone should answer soon. [11:22:25] Hi [11:22:47] Hello PatrikRoy. [11:23:05] Something you need today? [11:24:43] Well, I thought of just spectating first before asking anything. It's been a long time since I didn't come to IRC [11:24:52] But thanks for asking [11:25:02] You're welcome. [11:39:35] Hello PatrikR0y! If you have any questions, feel free to ask and someone should answer soon. [12:22:16] Hi! Sorry to bother you again... 😕 I couldn't create a user a couple of days ago, and you gave me a link to a Google Form. I got an account on meta.miraheze.com today - thanks! [12:22:16] But I want to be able to do some tests on publictestwiki.com too, and I can't login. The name/password I have on meta doesn't work - I get a "There seems to be a problem with your login session; this action has been canceled as a precaution against session hijacking. Please resubmit the form." [12:22:16] When I try to create a user I still get a "Your username or IP address has been blocked." (Matching rule: "Anti-spambot user creation filter." IP address: 84.217.56.22. Block ID: #1796.) Can you "lift the block" or create a user on publictestwiki? I'd be most grateful! 😊 [12:43:15] you don't need to create new account for another wiki [12:43:42] perhaps there's something w/ login process due to recent migration and stuff [12:43:51] @Agent [12:44:43] have you tried to login w/ first account again, or only once? maybe clean cash and try another browser? [13:39:55] Cache with websites using a non-miraheze domain can at times get confused [13:40:16] In previous experience simply trying to log in again has worked, otherwise I would clear cache and try again [13:40:30] To reiterate what Legroom already suggested :p [16:01:25] @MH-Discord: Thanks for your advise! Good to know I don't need to create a separate login for publictestwiki. But I still can't login. I have tried several times. I tried cleaning my local cache - still got the same error: "There seems to be a problem with your login session; this action has been canceled as a precaution against session hijacking. Please resubmit the form." [16:01:25] But now I tried to login from an incognito window. And I get another error: "Auto-creation of a local account failed: Your username or IP address has been blocked." With the same reason, IP address and block ID: "Anti-spambot user creation filter."/84.217.56.22/#1796. Will an account be auto-created on publictestwiki, when a user logs in with a valid account on meta? It seems like that fails, because my IP address has been [16:01:25] blocked. [16:01:27] I'd be very glad if you could look into it! (When you have the time.) This must be something that will happened to other news users too. [16:03:14] hmm [16:03:25] Autocreation shouldn't fail? [16:03:40] Second is an issue most likely caused by a proxy, public ip or unfortunate service provider that was blocked [16:04:23] Have you attempted to clear your browser cache to try and un-confuse the login? [16:09:49] they cleaned local cash [16:10:19] damn [16:10:28] Can't think of much else if it's been thoroughly scrubbed [16:11:12] I've never seen autocreation of an account fail because of the AF [16:12:14] didn't think the AF could really do that, must be a local setting that's off, or perhaps related to when Void adjusted the AF and something isn't syncing with PTW? [17:16:03] OK, thanks for looking into it. 😊 I don't know if it can help, but here is a screen dump of the error I get: http://www.agodata.se/test/LoginFailedMiraheze.png (Run in Chrome, in incognito mode - i.e. without local cache or cookies.) [17:16:32] Let me see if I can undo the autoblock [17:24:29] @Owen, are you aware dmehus has been repeatedly lying about you? Please DM me [17:28:16] Naleksuh What made you think dmehus was repeatedly lying about Owen? I haven't seen any instances of that anywhere else. [17:28:25] That's nice [17:28:32] Anyway, Owen, please let me know if you are online [17:29:17] Naleksuh: I am online, I shall make contact with you shortly [17:29:27] O.o [17:29:50] @raidarr I was also confused myself, as that question came out of nowhere. [17:30:06] @naleksuh what is "CIR"? [17:30:13] [[w:WP:CIR]] [17:30:13] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:CIR [17:30:18]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:CIR [17:30:19] [wikipedia] WP:CIR | "Wikipedia is a big place, with many editors, all with their own opinions on how to do things. It seems surprising that we are able to work together functionally, but somehow this is what usually happens.One of our core Wikipedia guidelines that facilitates this is assume good faith. It is good advice, reminding us that, when we disagree, everyone involved is (usually) trying to do what they think is best. Sure, […]" [17:30:22] Competence is required [17:30:44] tldr, it means there are issues in the user's compatibility in contributions with the way the platform ideally works [17:31:11] hm [17:31:30] Hi Raidarr 👋 [17:32:34] Hello there [17:33:32] New lock today [17:36:40] what the hell ... [17:36:57] @Legroom Which one are you referring to? [17:47:37] RR giving medicine to a long-term abuser [17:50:49] I think there is no need for any additional peanut gallery comments. If any community member accuses someone else of any sort of misconduct, they should address it privately or any formal processes that are in place to lodge a complaint rather than a large public venue which may make effective communication impossible. I encourage Naleksuh to do that next time to prevent undue attention from being brought to this issue. [17:51:33] Additionally, please remember that accusing someone of something may be considered a personal attack so it should not be done lightly which is another reason why private communication is preferable before bringing an accusation to light, to prevent a misunderstanding. [17:51:55] Did you say that to me? [17:52:01] Agent Good point. I didn't really need to see him/her accusing dmehus of misconduct without any evidence. [17:52:13] This goes out to everyone [17:52:33] Yes, even myself. Let's just move on and forget this ever happened. [17:52:49] 👍 [17:53:16] Again. This Nalek I never had a good view of him, sadly, from even talking about the Miraheze Bots project, instead of doing something to improve [17:53:42] Agent also meant for you to drop the subject entirely. [17:53:46] YellowFrogger, please re-read what Agent wrote :) [17:53:59] Ok, done 👍 [17:54:08] thanks :) [17:55:06] Also dmehus, have you seen the message on #cvt that I pinged you on as of yet? [17:55:33] Agent : In this specific case, Owen does not regularly use IRC and I was only capable of talking to them over the bridge [17:55:52] I've asked them to join Libera before, but they hadn't. They have now, but clearly needed a good reason to do so [17:55:58] well could have emailed him [17:56:00] So thank you, but I thought through what I did carefully [17:56:03] you could* [17:56:44] I'm talking with Naleksuh now anyway [17:57:02] Anyway, let's just move on anyway. [17:57:04] Sounds good [17:57:07] indeed [17:59:04] Yes folks, please, no fighting. Let's do constructive things 👍 [18:00:02] I wonder wehat my wiki needs [18:00:49] BurningPrincess Which wiki is it? [18:08:43] darkmatterman450, quneress [18:09:01] BurningPrincess Ah. [18:10:43] My wiki probly needs something [19:09:30] @Owen: as far as I'm aware -cvt-private isn't used so no, no sensitive info is currently handled of Miraheze's directly [19:10:02] Naleksuh: we use the name because we're a self governed community operated project for the benefit of the community [19:10:28] If the community want to operate a burger van for the benefit of Miraheze users, they are welcome too [21:09:00] RhinosF1 : No, you held a conversation that should have been held on-wiki off-wiki [21:09:07] Oh, and you leaked private messages without my permission [21:09:09] That's another great touch [21:11:40] Naleksuh: we are free to choose where we make our decisions and it's been common so far to make them in our private channel [21:11:51] There's no precedent for an on wiki discussion [21:16:46] Uh huh [21:16:52] All wikis need something, BP :p [21:16:55] Sort of like your belief that your wiki is exempt from Miraheze's TOU? [21:17:13] Sorry, not "your wiki" [21:17:20] That would be an OWN violation [21:17:29] bots.miraheze.org - note the domain name here [21:18:10] I think this conversation has gone a bit too far here. [21:18:34] At this point if we're going to insinuate grievous misconduct by multiple users on/on behalf of the miraheze platform, I suppose a reasoned, civil but frank discussion should be opened on the issue, perhaps to the effect of indicating what issues are there and raising the idea of incorporating the bots mechanism into miraheze proper rather than being a detached ancillary; otherwise this reads like the airing of dirty laundry only [21:18:35] known to a few parties yet levied in a public avenue [21:18:44] Opened on meta I should say [21:29:04] Naleksuh: content on wiki is subject to the ToU and on wiki policies. They end at that point. [21:29:21] What we do on servers are managed by a separate ToU [21:29:30] and separate policies [21:29:36] Fortunately nobody was talking about "on servers", you made it up just now [21:29:56] Also how we choose which hosts we use [21:30:07] And that includes refusing your offer [21:30:45] And as it stands I see no information to say any future proposal would result in a different desicion [21:31:07] This is not a proposal [21:31:13] This is a non-Miraheze project using Miraheze trademarks [21:31:18] And Miraheze Limited contracts [21:31:52] Miraheze isn't a trademarked term and anything we've used Miraheze's details on, Owen is aware of [21:32:15] I'd never put his info on something without him knowing [21:32:37] I never suggested you did, but now that you've mentioned it, yes, you would infact do exactly that [21:32:45] Fortunately, nobody was talking about that, you just made it up yet again [21:32:47] We are ran by the community and for the community [21:33:19] Could I get you to say it is run by the community on-wiki? [21:33:43] We can decide where to make certain calls. Some are done on our own platforms. [21:33:51] Most via IRC or Phab [21:33:54] Ah, you won't say it on-wiki because you know it is a lie? [21:33:57] The wiki is more for docs [21:34:12] I said by the community. I've never said we have to make a call on wiki. [21:34:31] Neither did I, I asked you to say it was run by the community onwiki [21:34:33] I believe I said there's no precedent for it [21:34:46] No we don't make most calls on wiki [21:34:54] Neither did I, I asked you to say it was run by the community onwiki [21:35:17] The wiki is for documentation. [21:35:42] We run most things via Phab currently [21:38:59] Again, we are not talking about how you run your ridiculous system [21:39:11] We are talking about Miraheze vs. Random Bot Program Not Affiliated With It [21:39:31] we are affiliated with it [21:39:48] We are a community ran project [21:40:20] We welcome trusted community members who can support us and provide resources to help run bots that help Miraheze [21:40:42] Uh, you just said it wasn't [21:41:26] We don't welcome people on a vendetta against an organisation that banned them and provide us with an offer with minimal substance behind it that won't shut up when we were supposed to be off work. [21:41:37] i said we don't run things on wiki [21:41:45] Because we never have [21:41:53] We have other things we check more [21:41:55] Okay, I think I figured out what's going on here [21:41:57] https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/tQi207yL/image.png [21:41:58] It's a documentation wiki [21:42:31] I think you dislike the fact that we said no to you [21:42:42] What on earth is even the root concern here [21:42:55] Read community noticeboard [21:43:02] RhinosF1 is trying to distract people by bringing up unrelated stuff [21:43:09] The complaint right now is that the bots are being run rediculously without the consent of miraheze/the community [21:43:16] And want to get your way without considering what those involved actually think [21:43:19] is there more to this or what [21:43:34] Raidarr : I never actually said that [21:44:05] @raidarr: we turned an offer for resources down from Naleksuh because concerns were raised by our time that Naleksuh had conduct issues, disliked Fosshost and was on a vendetta and there was no evidence of backing [21:44:25] As much as Fosshost has its flaws and things it could do better, it's not caused us any major issues [21:44:27] ^ not true, but even if it was that is not what the thread is about [21:44:31] So double bullshit [21:44:37] So Naleksuh, what are you saying [21:44:43] What is the source that is being argued [21:44:49] For the third time, read the thread [21:44:50] https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Community_noticeboard#%22Miraheze_Bots%22 [21:44:51] [url] Community noticeboard - Miraheze Meta | meta.miraheze.org [21:44:51] In this chat, not whatever is on the CN [21:45:07] Honestly, I have no idea. The conversation stopped but RhinosF1 started it again [21:45:25] Probably didn't meet the quota for enough people bothered in one day [21:45:26] Your impatience, aggression and frankly incivil approach makes it difficult to identify what 'bullshit' and 'what the thread is about' even are [21:45:37] And it seems you are the single user on Miraheze who has this problem [21:45:50] I responded to "Otherwise, why can't I go and launch "Miraheze burgers" in a food truck with no permission from anyone?" in here [21:46:00] To explain why that's not the case [21:46:01] And why would you do that? [21:46:03] I didn't write it here [21:46:23] Because I chose to speak with you in real time and attempt to reason [21:46:31] Even the opening post on the miraheze thread is ambiguous what the actual issue is, it's just asking about official capacity and making ambiguous claims that it's not performing to miraheze standards and is in error [21:46:32] Really? That's a first [21:46:39] Where were attempts to reason the last two weeks? [21:46:55] Specifically the backing behind the issues claimed in a later reply [21:47:15] raidarr : I don't recall saying it wasn't performing to Miraheze standards, although people certainly seem to have inferred that [21:47:29] Actually, I did say it, but it was not the central focus of the post [21:47:59] I gave you our reasoning behind refusing your offer [21:47:59] " was under the impression that it was, it is using Miraheze resouurces, branding, and legal contracts, but has not been conforming to Miraheze standards,"... the claim is right at the center of your opening argument, the central focus raises multiple things at once and that would be one of the more contentious claims if true that would warrant action [21:48:04] And I've aid it again in here [21:48:14] we don't use Miraheze resources [21:48:17] And never have [21:48:46] we have our own agreements with providers but do consult sometimes with Miraheze SRE & Board [21:48:54] The complaint seems to be ever shifting in its priority and frankly looks petty with this drawn out exchange that continues to put down Rhinos without doing much to actually focus on the issue at hand [21:49:14] @raidarr: it's exactly what it feels like [21:49:27] I'm getting tired of the shit we've had [21:49:58] You are getting tired? You were the one being incivil to me, and I am supposed to just put up with it apparently [21:50:02] I'd rather talk with reason though than hide behind formally written statements published by service accounts [21:50:15] This is not some great case against RhinosF1, it is me simply having enough [21:50:18] You're supposed to accept like a reasonable person the fact we declined your offer [21:50:59] either come back with a reason that isn't I dislike Fosshost and with a plan that's got evidenced backing on how it'll survive [21:51:14] And then I'll review it with the team [21:51:19] No you won't [21:51:33] I already wrote six paragraphs, but you didn't read any of it [21:51:33] Naleksuh Please do not continue to badger RhinosF1. [21:51:37] Instead, you chose to leak private DMs [21:51:37] But until you provide something new, relevant and unavailable to use at the time, we don't have interest [21:51:49] darkmatterman450 : No, he messaged me first, and I am simply replying to him [21:51:54] Naleksuh: I'm told dmehus did [21:51:57] I'm not going to just let him talk at me [21:52:11] And that after talking with him we found no reason to reopen the discussion [21:52:36] And yet I see all these wild and baseless accusations without providing anything useful, which is akin to casting aspersions. [21:53:21] Yep, that is exactly what is happening. Just RhinosF1 distracting with stuff like a so-called case that was never mentioned [21:53:37] I never mentioned Fosshost or any offer onwiki [21:53:37] We talked about Miraheze's relationship with Miraheze Bots and that is IT [21:53:39] Nothing else [21:54:00] Then RhinosF1 decides to answer my onwiki post on IRC, where he can say stuff without any accountability [21:54:01] Naleksuh That's all I'm seeing from you. [21:55:26] Then you should read the entire conversation [21:55:26] Because I never solicited anything to him, he started talking about random stuff on IRC and I defended myself from false info [21:55:52] Let's just drop it as this isn't going to get anyone anywhere. [21:56:00] Infact, I never would have had to join this channel in the first place if Owen was on Libera [21:56:01] But he is now [21:56:51] It's a publicly logged channel [21:57:03] It's perfectly accountable [21:57:20] I can stick to formally wrote statements though [21:57:32] darkmatterman450 : It was dropped, but RhinosF1 revived it. If they do again, my only choices are to either let him talk ignore him and not defend anything, or risk myself being blamed for his actions [21:57:52] Rather than trying to explain, reason and correct false claims in a real time manner [21:58:35] Decentralising discussions isn’t helpful though, if it’s taking place on wiki, it’s better on wiki rather than half and half [21:58:53] Oh hey JohnLewis [21:59:05] Did you get the information about Miraheze Bots? [22:07:07] Hm? [22:07:28] https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/File:MirahezeBots.png Naleksuh What's this? [22:07:28] [url] File:MirahezeBots.png - Miraheze Meta | meta.miraheze.org [22:10:00] https://meta.miraheze.org/w/index.php?title=Community_noticeboard&type=revision&diff=227967&oldid=227951 [22:10:05] [url] Difference between revisions of "Community noticeboard" - Miraheze Meta | meta.miraheze.org [22:11:04] What does there need to be a formal statement about in relation to that discussion? I presumed the fact no relationship existed was already known [22:13:11] The facts should be known and they've not been hidden but something has clearly been missed so it's going to be wrote up in clear language, formally and politely [22:13:21] Partly so I can ensure I'm calm in it too [22:13:39] But no more comments will be made until then [22:14:35] RhinosF1 Good, because this has gone off the rails in record time, and it only annoyed me even more just by looking at this disgruntled mess of a comment chain. [22:15:44] Also if a Miraheze NDA is no longer required, as no information is being shared, I think that should be something changed and a Miraheze Bots NDA drawn up [22:20:20] JohnLewis : I was under the impression that you were considering requiring Miraheze Bots to remove their Miraheze branding [22:20:28] If I have been misled, please tell me. It would not be the first time that person lied to me [22:23:48] ^ 👍 to that. I've been calling for this for quite awhile; I think MirahezeBots should put in place an actionable timeline toward implementation [22:25:44] Naleksuh: The Board did require it because of Fosshost, but then I believe it was dropped under certain conditions [22:26:15] Yeah [22:26:30] Why was it dropped? [22:26:34] Seems like it is valid and should be kept [22:27:43] Let me check my email history [22:27:53] Naleksuh, what should be kept? [22:28:36] The rebrand requirement [22:28:51] I see that this conversation is going pretty smoothly compared to last time. I'd be more than happy to come into the discussion. [22:28:55] It should not have been dropped [22:29:14] Naleksuh, oh ok [22:29:55] I do not have anything, I can Owen or you can if you wish to Naleksuh [22:31:40] Oh wait, this is relayed @Owen [22:32:31] Owen joined Libera so I can PM them [22:32:34] They aren't on the channel though [22:48:29] It was not dropped to my knowledge. Reviewing previous communications, RhinosF1 communicated to the Board that Miraheze Bots was changing its name back in June 2021. That is the last update I can find on the matter, and nothing since on it. [22:50:17] The plan still exists, the method to reach it didn't work out as we hoped. [22:50:29] I'll message you tommorow @Owen [22:51:22] But the short story involves us not having any directors to handle anything and the method we were going to do to handle the legal side didn't work out. [22:55:33] Arguably whether you rename with or without the legal stuff in place, doesn't change anything. You're currently a non legal entity anyway [22:58:13] RhinosF1, since the rebranding is now public, I've been calling for moving forward on a rebrand since August 2021, and I think we need to set a reasonable and actionable timeline toward implementation (say 90 days) [22:59:34] As to legalities, all it needs is for either a member of the MirahezeBots team to put their name to the agreement, or to all team members putting their name on the agreement [23:04:28] Hey dmehus, I left you a private message if you want to look at it later or if you have the time. [23:11:49] darkmatterman450, will do [23:12:49] :thumbsup: [23:20:05] dmehus : Ninety days? [23:20:09] That's ridiculous [23:20:15] Especially when this has been going on for half a year [23:20:21] And there is no legal paperwork at all [23:20:25] How about one week? [23:20:30] That is more than enough time [23:25:12] Sup? legal paperwork? whom are we suing? [23:25:27] Did you read what I said? [23:25:29] `And there is no legal paperwork at all` [23:25:38] no legal paperwork != legal paperwork [23:25:45] The key difference is the word "no", meaning "lack thereof" [23:25:50] Let's pretend I didn't but also that we're all friends here. [23:26:06] Are we friends? [23:26:14] Corwin, you have sometimes ignored me for months on end [23:26:19] Naleksuh: can I persuade you to ELI5 why you have taken this tone with all of us? [23:26:19] Even dmehus can only ignore me for 6 days at a time [23:26:26] ELI5? [23:26:43] https://www.google.com/search?q=eli5&oq=eli5&aqs=chrome..69i57j0l7.1410j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8 [23:26:44] [url] eli5 - Google Search | www.google.com [23:26:58] In the course of my discord activity I've managed to ghost users for years after forgetting the account I messaged with, so I think I have the competition beat [23:27:16] Hello there raidarr [23:27:20] o7 [23:27:20] Why don't you open the link corwin sent? [23:27:26] I don't use Google search, maybe you do [23:27:53] The results are probably ubiquitous regardless of the engine you use, merely a search for eli5 [23:27:59] raidarr: relatable. I have ex-partners I'm still only assuming have broken up with me. [23:28:04] "Explain Like I'm 5" [23:28:48] ELI5 sounds like a cloud provider term [23:28:55] raidarr: understand now that at this point I've been married for 15 yrs. [23:29:40] Well, eli5 lengthens to the above [23:30:01] Naleksuh: now that we're check out on the vocab, can we come back the the source of the sourness your inflicting on the channel? I assume this must be something important to you, and I'd like to know what that is. [23:30:13] Why are you curious? [23:30:16] I didn't even know you were here [23:30:18] corwin: Assuming the exes are all before that time, I must assume they have moved on :p [23:30:26] You are a non-Miraheze contributor, aren't you? Do you have an account? [23:30:30] raidarr: same [23:31:27] Naleksuh: how did this get to be about be suddenly? It's a public channel, afaik. Since i'm in it and therefor reading line after line of you expressing your unhappyness, I thought you might be willing to help clue me in. [23:31:40] If it's a private matter, perhaps you can find another forum. [23:31:55] Another forum? Oh, I did [23:31:58] s/about be/about me [23:31:58] corwin meant to say: Naleksuh: how did this get to be about me suddenly? It's a public channel, afaik. Since i'm in it and therefor reading line after line of you expressing your unhappyness, I thought you might be willing to help clue me in. [23:31:59] RhinosF1 just dragged it here [23:33:00] Basically what happened was I posted about Miraheze's relationship with another group onwiki then RhinosF1 started bothering me here, first about my post then by introducing completely irrelevant information and talking about a completely different conversation entirely [23:34:45] so this rant is about behaviour of a developer who's conduct dissapointed you? Did it occur to you to provide a techable moment by demonstrating the mutual respect you feel you didn't receive? [23:35:27] Corwin, why are you interested in this subject? [23:35:36] You haven't participated thus far [23:35:46] Nor have I ever seen you talk here or have any interest in Miraheze [23:35:50] Well, it is mildly intriguing I suppose [23:35:51] I find online harassment to be a facinating subject. [23:36:49] For example, one thing I've seen in my (purly unscientific) observations, is that the harassers are rarely important contributers in the forums they frequent, while the targets usually are. [23:38:07] That makes sense, given that you have no substantial contributions to Miraheze [23:38:21] indeed [23:38:41] I'm what you might call a "user" [23:39:02] That's strange, most users do have contributions [23:39:16] In fact, I would not call someone with no contributions a user [23:39:19] Statistically I might contest that :p [23:39:31] Do you know what Miraheze is or what it does? [23:39:44] Most users that ever show up in a listing tend to have minimal or no impact, be it discord, a forum, a wiki... [23:40:26] Will catch up on the talk later though [23:40:37] o/ thanks for joining in raidarr [23:41:06] Naleksuh: so, you content that only contribuers are "users". Is that for all wiki projects, or just this one? [23:41:22] Also, do you have a special term like "visitors" or something for people that don't contribute? [23:42:07] It is very suspicious how you went months without a single message here yet right after your buddy RhinosF1 starts talking about a group you are part of you show up [23:42:16] Unless you have a specific aim with this I am not inclined to answer further questions [23:43:19] Hello Guest32! If you have any questions, feel free to ask and someone should answer soon. [23:43:25] My aim hasn't changed. In brief I'm asking "what gives you the right?". Your answer seems to be, variously 1. you have more right than I do, anyway, 2. RhinoSF1 made me do it [23:43:37] Fuck [23:44:24] Ah, so this was just a giant RhinosF1 canvassing attempt [23:44:27] Alright, thanks for your time [23:44:47] canvassing attempt? My google foo fails me. What does this mean? [23:44:55] Don't worry about it [23:44:57] Miraheze jargon [23:45:05] Have a nice day [23:45:15] I think you were the one who said RhinosF1 "dragged" you here. Did I misunderstand? [23:45:27] I thought things were finally settling down and calming with the contentious stuff. [23:47:52] Mr Naleksuh q [23:48:03] Cough cough [23:48:16] That's not going to help matters. [23:48:29] calling (what I understand so far, which isn't much) a controversy seems ... dramatic. It's one person ranting and unwilling to explain why, at least to me. [23:51:20] A lot of Miraheze users have been watching the exchange in this channel for the last few hours, confused as to the logic or necessity behind it. It seems counterproductive. [23:51:40] It has though seemingly identified a agreement to stop using a name that has been in place for 6 months with no progress on it [23:52:17] I'm sorry if my "contributions" haven't helped (or the reverse). It seemed like, assuming an "honest conflict" a chance to explain things from the beginning could be useful for all parities. I'll chill. [23:52:19]