[00:00:13] there's no documentation as to what the role's purpose is on wiki [00:02:33] There's an obvious attempt to replicate wikimedia yet there's a rather lack of people to fill roles, despite that there are proposals to invent more roles. [00:04:19] My concern is that consolidating some of the roles will raise the bar for appointing [00:05:44] this is for only technical reasons, see [[Special:Log?logid=1110409]] [00:05:44] https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Special:Log%3flogid%3d1110409 [00:05:45]

[00:05:48] oh [00:06:01] [[Special:Redirect/logid/1110409]] [00:06:01] https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Special:Redirect/logid/1110409 [00:06:03]

[00:06:31] why not just limit it showing up for testwiki instead of at meta? [00:07:54] idk [00:09:55] No it is not useful [00:09:55] [1/4] let's start with the concept of a trusted user, what is the bar to be considered trusted? [00:09:56] [2/4] autopatrolled grants both autopatrol and skip captcha [00:09:56] [3/4] - since this already grants skip captcha, the proposal just invents a role without a good justification. all the proposal does is split this role in 2. [00:09:56] [4/4] ip block exempt grants ipblock-exempt, StopForumSpam bypass, tor unblocked [00:10:09] Ok sure you can add that to the proposal [00:10:21] already added as a comment [00:11:04] as note, from special:listgrouprights that autopatrolled grants both autopatrol and skipcaptcha so the proposed role doesn't add anything of value compared to existing roles [00:12:00] there's also a confirmed role that grants skip captcha [00:12:05] [1/3] We have found the cause. This is a wiki farm where I can use my ManageWiki, but even though this betawiki has a group named test-group, the group does not show up when I try to operate it from metawiki. This means that if I try to change a user group from metawiki, I can only change the user group that exists on metawiki, regardless of what user groups exist on betaw [00:12:05] [2/3] iki [00:12:06] [3/3] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1244442970271518730/image.png?ex=66552154&is=6653cfd4&hm=3a5812090ba876baff78864fc3804069e7c2d21c154f8d201504d17854af8011& [00:12:38] This is a global, not local, group [00:12:43] This means that if you want to manipulate testwiki permissions from metawiki, a group with the same name must exist on metawiki [00:13:14] That specific autopatrolled role exists on metawiki, you currently cannot be given that role on every wiki [00:17:13] yes its automatic based on certain conditions. as the oppose in the proposal. instead of earning autopatrol or even an explicit grant of confirmed; overruling local communities...what for? [00:17:57] [1/4] > overruling local communities [00:17:57] [2/4] Skipping captchas is not overruling [00:17:57] [3/4] > what for [00:17:58] [4/4] For the purposes stated in the RfC [00:19:22] the proposal is for a new global role that grants skip captcha across all wikis instead of earning it on per wiki basis, that's called overruling the conditions to meet autoconfirmed status which is automatically granted [00:19:59] [1/2] A local community can always opt out of global roles [00:19:59] [2/2] Skipping captchas is not an advanced permission [00:20:18] ok, now we getting somewhere [00:20:44] effectively a global role that combines autopatrolled, confirmed will not give any advanced permissions [00:20:51] Global sysops and Stewards can already skip captchas on every wiki regardless of a wiki's configuration and nobody has complained about that even though skipping captchas is irrelevant to their job [00:21:09] Well yes the RfC never said it granted advanced permissions [00:21:17] I'm gonna go now talk later [00:21:23] stewards and global sysops are the highest authority across miraheze [00:22:54] not even a comparison [00:24:21] I don't think global CAPTCHA skip is required. We have IPBE for those who contribute to constructively and are stuck in a "bad hood" sharing a range with those who do noncostructive shit on MH [00:25:02] +global rollbacker, well I don't think it's appropriate to compare it to other role [00:25:17] [1/2] I wasn't able to get that group even though I'm a constructive user and want to use Tor [00:25:18] [2/2] And furthermore that is for a different purpose than this one [00:26:52] If you have to find all the fire hydrants for 10 edits and 4 days it's not a major issue, but I do think that requirements for GIPBE have to be lowered [00:27:02] it's relevant in the sense that a steward will not nearly be able to do their job as well if they have to fuss about captcha when intervening to enforce a global policy, smacking vandals with their nuclear buttons or otherwise messaging/acting in an elevated capacity tbh [00:27:13] ditto gs [00:27:47] True but they could still do that if they experienced captcha, it'd just be annoying [00:28:10] captcha exempt in this scenario lacks the responsibility element that justifies bypass of the usual steps although skipping captcha is harmless and that's something I wouldn't mind seeing as automatic for users past a certain level of global edits or something, it's purely an antispam feature [00:28:17] That is very annoying when trying to revert vandalism or fix a wiki's templates and etc [00:28:54] really the trouble with gce is that there'd be so many people who nominally would be just fine with the exception that it would take all day many days to cover everyone with a right to that call [00:28:55] Each captcha takes a few minutes, I have had this several times where I spend a few minutes on each trivial edit [00:29:12] the underlying idea behind this RfC is my belief that Captchas are only for anti-spam and that non-robot users do not need Captchas [00:29:15] Take en.wiki as an example, a lot of edits from IPs don't even need the verification, unless links are being inserted or etc [00:29:29] it should be automated, manual assignment is incredibly clunky [00:29:36] Miraheze has a bigger spam problem [00:29:53] Because our filters aren't as good and we don't have as many patrollers [00:30:02] So captcha is very needed [00:31:01] That would be good [00:31:33] The CAPCHA does also tend to remember the last time you clicked on all the traffic lights and the next time you click the box it might not require another solution, this is especially true for Cloudflare Turnstile, the friction for users is very low but bots tend to have a hard time. [00:32:19] I've found cloudflare to be better than the others with that [00:32:36] [1/2] Another concern is that the Global groups reform, currently in draft form, would eliminate or raise the appointing standards for GR, a position that can skip Captcha for reverting vandalisms [00:32:36] [2/2] (In this aspect, perhaps this RfC should have been included in the Global groups reform) [00:35:41] the autopatroll role which is granted automatically provides skip captcha permission [00:40:22] @suzuneu I would advise to first outline what particular roles are needed then design the roles with the relevant permissions instead of trying to literally replicate wikimedia which isn't going to be possible [00:53:19] Hi. Do you know if there is a mediawiki special page for "longest page title". To know which pages have the longest titles? [00:59:07] there is not, you can find all special pages listed at Special:SpecialPages [00:59:37] Ok. Thanks [01:03:11] MediaWiki does not have that functionality and I am not aware of any extensions that do, but your best is going to Special:AllPages, copying all the titles into something like Notepad++ and sorting by line length. [01:04:16] It requires edits on each individual wiki, provided rationale above for why I have an issue with the lack of a global role [01:08:19] as I mentioned to waki and in the past, evaluating all existing roles and perhaps redesigning any that are replace-able might be a more useful rfc [01:10:14] This is true but I think this RfC can be a starting place, it doesn't preclude getting rid of other roles after or before it passes [01:11:19] #Language embedding to Wikipedia article [01:12:44] the main issue is later, would need an rfc to basically kill this proposed role and merge all users part of these into such new role for redundancy. one goal is to do this in a smarter way and reduce redundant actions for later. [01:13:05] It’s due to appear in red [01:13:17] Like there’s not page related [01:13:36] looks like a interlanguage issue [01:13:42] Yup [01:13:56] if you don't have access, notify someone who does [01:14:05] I need to appear in blue [01:16:33] I don't see why we should kill this role [01:16:46] If we do need to merge it into something else I expect that to take weeks to months [01:23:53] [1/2] I was saying later when the global roles are reformed, we may need to kill this as redundant. [01:23:53] [2/2] work smarter, not harder [01:24:46] what are we killing as redundant? [01:24:58] [1/2] That’s what I’m mean about [01:24:58] [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1244461309706109120/IMG_3568.png?ex=66553269&is=6653e0e9&hm=d779e59c8c8f6f0a509c7981c39939fd3a83162a077faed1a3d0c32f85d0b3c9& [01:25:13] And I don’t know [01:25:16] you're linking to a wikipedia article? [01:25:53] read the discussion please instead of randomly jumping in [01:26:42] I only want at the time of using the {{native name | lang |}} the name of the language appear on blue, not red. @pixldev [01:26:42] https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Template:native_name_ [01:27:03] What [01:27:10] It’s like there’s not page linked to that language [01:27:43] I have no idea how this works so I can't help since you provided no link [01:27:59] https://furrnations.miraheze.org/wiki/Draganian_Republic_of_Turisa?mobileaction=toggle_view_mobile# [01:28:17] user needs someone with interlanguage permissions [01:29:28] I only want use the {{native name | lang |}} correctly [01:29:28] https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Template:native_name_ [01:29:43] asking a question, really no need to be hostile [01:30:15] [1/2] Yeah but that's later [01:30:15] [2/2] It's not going to save much time to just not make this because at some point we will need to reform all global roles, at some point we may need to kill global captcha exempt but for the time being reforming all the global roles is going to take a while and this can be useful until it is done [01:31:47] i'm not being hostile, its a very basic expectation when joining a discussion [01:33:37] Brandon, see DM [01:34:18] Asked a question relating to context on the topic, because backreading an entire conversation is difficult in a clogged channel. You may not have intended to be hostile but you certainly came across that way and I’d advise you to try and check for that in the future. [01:35:52] Both calm a bit please. Don't need to start an argument over something that small. [01:37:28] [1/2] By example, on other of the wiki entry appears correctly [01:37:28] [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1244464456805646367/IMG_3569.png?ex=66553557&is=6653e3d7&hm=36fa1f382b906e49186e245cca4c39ee76508656d74a531ce9f382b6deaf95dd& [01:42:12] I don’t understand [01:48:57] Done for translation (and following current RfC for today) iirc all the important policy and functionary pages are now up to date and translated [01:57:09] I know that’s not a solution but [01:58:13] [1/2] I fixed with: [01:58:14] [2/2] {{lang | iso code | text}} ([[w: name language|name]]) [01:58:14] https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Template:lang_ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/_name_language [02:05:04] But doesn’t look good [03:48:05] How do i set this up in my server? [03:48:09] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1244497345425575998/image.png?ex=665553f8&is=66540278&hm=466e4eee4f82c0bdd2173f5b66ebb5b1caa5c0a7b44d7dc18aa6fb47da8acf86& [03:48:33] agent set it up ig when he owned lgballt [04:03:01] Is he Agent? [04:03:27] And I wanted to know what's the progress of my request, to add .p7m and .p7s into my wiki [04:03:50] you was offered alternatives [04:04:08] May I know what are the alternatives [04:07:25] [1/2] please scroll back to your previous messages, encryption isn't my field of interest [04:07:25] [2/2] also things like new file extensions and other tech stuff has to be requested in Phorge [04:07:56] Okay, thanks. Whenever necessary I will file a request in there [04:12:14] that would be extension:DiscordNotifications [04:12:23] all you need is a discord webhook [04:12:45] ??? [04:12:49] thanks [04:13:57] You said this user is Agent so I was wondering if he became active again [04:14:25] agent set up the thing for lgballt [04:14:30] the user who edited was me [04:15:35] Ohh got it [04:16:39] So you mean the Discord bot🤣 I just assume if he has set up something making changes on your wiki so the bot posted a notification [04:16:54] yeah [04:18:13] Oh I have no idea, I added this wiki bot in my server but has never seen it posting anything [04:42:11] Not a bot, it's automatically pulling from recentchanges via discord webhook [04:43:14] Is this periodically checked or automatically updated once changes have made? [04:52:52] automatically updated [05:02:44] I've read #announcements and stuff but they say the issue's fixed— my wiki seems to be loading every page significantly slower than it used to; is it okay if I create pages right now or is my wiki very poorly optimised? [05:05:09] [1/2] There’s a way to remove this category? [05:05:09] [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1244516723189874708/IMG_3578.png?ex=66556604&is=66541484&hm=d727fdb4d6c8d59b4f76873d415f6382edf23985c911cc9bfbf09875baa83fb7& [05:11:23] Adding `HIDDENCAT` to the category page will make that category a hidden category. [05:12:06] That won't remove it though; my theory is that a template has the category in its markup, causing it to show [05:12:24] The problem is it generates automatically when the language isn’t available [05:13:00] Just I used the {{native name|lang|text}} thing [05:13:00] https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Template:native_name [05:15:56] That may be what's causing the category to appear; the only issue is that all the template does is invoke a module, so the real culprit is a module that has to be edited to remove the category (which can break things if you're not accustomed to Lua) [05:17:16] There’s a way to import the languages like on Wikipedia? [05:18:24] https://furrnations.miraheze.org/wiki/Module:Lang - At line 1013 is where the module inserts the category; in theory, all you have to do is remove that line, but I don't really know much about Lua (the good thing is that any breaking changes can easily be reverted) [05:18:35] I'm not quite sure what you mean by that [05:27:15] Same issue as mine [05:29:31] I presume it's a server side issue then(?) [05:30:51] Most likely; I myself have received a few errors in the past hour, but it appears to have gone back to normal-ish [05:31:20] fair enough [05:31:58] I've only gotten the bad gateway error once, but pages are still somewhat slow— I'd understand if it's my poor optimisation, since most pages use multiple chained templates, and I don't know how much that could impact performance [05:33:37] It's causing the math extension to not work properly on the wiki [05:33:51] And sometimes bad gateway errors [05:35:10] wait so my chained template stuff is what's causing the occasional bad gateway error? [05:36:55] Probably not; bad gateway errors are almost always server-side (trying to import something that's too large is the only client-side cause of bad gateways that I know of) [05:37:45] ahh alrighty [05:38:20] thank you for answering- I'm normally really scared to ask questions like that due to my limited knowledge on computers [05:40:18] advice - don't import from wikipedia, their templates do a lot of stuff the majority of small wikis don't need, it's very redundant [05:41:53] out of nowhere question but- is there a way to get some form of custom language to be recognised within my wiki? [05:42:20] I haven't looked through the menus for that yet because I've been working on other things but I have been wondering, since my wiki is about fictional languages [05:42:55] the content of the wiki, perhaps, but interface if mediawiki itself - questionable [05:43:31] mediawiki localisation is based on translatewiki, it's like a separate project [05:43:32] fair enough- I'm not sure if I really need the whole interface translated considering that'll probably be way too much [05:43:39] I see [05:43:40] makes sense [05:44:27] if you need like custom scripts I guess custom fonts is the way to go [05:44:45] nah just Latin text should do [05:44:59] though looking into fonts might also be an option for further reference [05:53:39] 502 again? [05:54:06] yeah it's not loading for me either [05:54:07] Nevermind, thought it was another outage haha [05:54:18] it's just being really slow [05:54:21] took a while for it to load [05:54:34] It is being slow [05:54:50] I thought it was my internet [06:14:14] Is there a way to use visual editor on mobile view? [06:14:59] it's just there, unless it decided to be buggy [06:15:25] What I get is a code editor [06:15:25] actually scratch that, I never used VE in mobile frontend lol [06:15:59] maybe it's for the better lol [06:16:02] The problem is I don't know a way to efficiently make code edits with the code editor [06:16:24] I don't know exactly if the code editor itself is hard to use or this is my problem [06:16:25] I don't use MFE either so my wikis w/ VE have no issues on mobile [06:17:02] So previously I changed the default screen for mobile to be Vector-2022 [06:17:13] idk man, source editing pretty much has no cons [06:17:23] I also wanted to get the same experience with desktop [06:17:31] visual editor constantly messes up the code/formattings [06:18:13] just disable mobile frontend extension and set vector 2022 as default skin, it's mobile adaptive after all [06:18:54] The problem I'm facing is, how to efficiently insert code blocks including page display title, category, etc. to the source code without manual inputs [06:19:05] copy paste? [06:19:08] May I know how to do this thing? [06:19:23] If on mobile, it's relatively difficult for me [06:19:29] I edit on my phone quite often, and in source [06:19:37] oh well [06:20:11] For example to invoke the copy/paste menu on Android browsers I need to click on the selection drop while being in single mode (the one with cursoe) [06:20:15]