[00:07:14] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Starting_a_new_page [00:08:12] searchbox method doesn’t work [00:08:38] Yes, not every route will work on mobile. [00:08:53] Partly that's borne out of being a big, long-running and successful project that's been in operation since 2013 [00:09:12] With a community of that size with that much content, it's hard to keep things tidy. [00:10:00] [1/2] Truly legendary numbers [00:10:00] [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1422374888525791282/image.png?ex=68dc7157&is=68db1fd7&hm=1b380953c740dc523907e0fbcbedd6539d8966a159afed5421e1f02cd51953ca& [00:15:42] <.labster> I think if we had more active moderators that we could trust, we wouldn't need edit approvals, and could do it after the fact like with patrolled edits. [02:44:07] @justleafy2003 Are you still interested in adding a proposal to https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Requests_for_Comment/Changes_to_the_Dormancy_Policy_(5) ? [04:03:46] [1/4] Yeah, I'm thinking the exemption for reaching 30 non-empty main namespace articles should be automatic (just like how it is on wiki.gg and Fandom with even lower requirements, if any) OR [04:03:46] [2/4] > The wiki has at least 30 meaningful content pages, subject to Steward discretion; and [04:03:46] [3/4] > One or more of the following: [04:03:47] [4/4] I'm thinking the "and" could be replaced with "or" [04:11:39] Also, we could probably make changes to the "Closed" status so that it wouldn't require a bureaucrat to have a wiki reopened and just have it completely replaced with the "Inactive" status. What if someone got interested in editing the wiki, doesn't know how to request reopening the wiki, and the founder/bureaucrat is inactive? [04:36:59] Thirty is the kinda baseline minimum for consideration, or isn't appropriate here. [04:40:14] I'm not in favor of this personally, closure reduces our overhead for CVT and is also needed for enforcement reasons. [04:52:29] unless you magically double our volunteer count or smth [04:55:38] That's my daydream for every wiki I've worked on. If the number of editors could double, imagine the things that we can do. [04:57:12] There were 4 tech in late 2023 and 11 now. That number 4 came about in special circumstances, but I still count that as almost tripling. [05:41:53] mfw roblox is indirectly responsible for a quarter of that increase [05:44:12] Lol [05:44:21] Still limited on Discord :( [05:45:24] wtf did they just extend your sentence or what [05:46:46] How can I make gifs that do play? I noticed they don't in a wiki and in them there is a notice that it is because of technical reasons [05:47:23] Skye fuck if I know, maybe it ends at the same time the supposed violation happens [05:47:28] If so i have 12 hours [05:47:34] Interested to see the answer to this aswell [05:48:15] oh yeah probably [05:59:23] I've kinda had thoughts of imagining the possibilities if the number of editors increased ten fold [06:00:06] it would be crazy awesome [06:00:31] but just doubling the number of editors is a lot and would be really nice to have [06:07:04] I know that you and random came because of roblox. Is there anyone else? [06:08:01] Change `wgMaxAnimatedGifArea` in ManageWiki/settings and make it a very large number. Gifs whose width times height times length (in number of frames) exceeding that number would not be animated. [06:09:57] yup that's us, the quarter [06:10:54] [1/2] increase https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:$wgMaxAnimatedGifArea [06:10:55] [2/2] @zxxcx_ [06:11:37] Oh I see. I was diving 2 by 11 instead of 7 and got confused. [06:12:58] pulled a math exam functional reading check on you [06:15:04] reminds of that tumblr post that was like "79% percent of americans are functionally illiterate" and the responses were all like "ummmm op did you misread the literacy stats cause 79% of americans are literate, actually" [06:15:39] i would also like to point out that a 21% illiteracy rate is abysmal for a developed country [06:23:09] Thank you Skye [06:23:21] ofc ^_^ [06:24:06] What, how is it si high [06:35:59] [1/5] is there some problem with tracking page views for pages which contain apostrophe (') in title? [06:35:59] [2/5] we have some tutorial/guide pages on our wiki and one of them is showing 0 page views for a while now [06:35:59] [3/5] on screen -> page/page views in last month [06:35:59] [4/5] even on info page for that particular page it shows 0, what gives [06:36:00] [5/5] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1422472023011233843/image.png?ex=68dccbce&is=68db7a4e&hm=66cea92361baad22990aea085c979a2f13955e70f421e806e46f675b7cbec357& [08:19:35] this is something new [08:19:52] i can't login on a wiki a haven't visited previously because i use vpn [08:20:22] i assume vpn blocks interfere w/ account attachment on new wikis? [08:23:22] it's always been a thing [08:23:27] oh wait login [08:23:42] oh nvm on new wikis it is still an issue [08:23:45] tbh i can make a bot just edit the wiki like once a day or a month to prevent from closure [08:23:54] so what's the sense of the policy [08:24:11] gonna ping stewards rq to vaporize you [08:24:40] i found no global policy disallowing this [08:24:43] @serverlessharej perhaps add a proposal to account for this? [08:24:45] and i'm really doing this [08:25:57] https://xyy.miraheze.org/wiki/User:Hoohu-bot/timestamp?action=history [08:26:11] im still annoyed that i can't see images when using vpn [08:26:44] anti dpi doesn't always work to open wiki + i prefer using vpn still because i need to access other sites at the same time [08:27:04] what do you get when opening an image on static.wikitide.net [08:27:32] you asking same thing as agent [08:27:38] bot challenge [08:27:45] i always get bot challenges [08:28:05] i start new browser session to just see wiki - challenge [08:28:20] resolving on static still won't load images [08:28:52] i am doing this but i want to defend bc it's totally inspired by https://www.ngnl.wiki/wiki/User:SILI_bot/keep-alive?action=history [08:29:05] i'm not the first to do this [08:29:46] also challenge sometimes might stuck I'll have to refresh and wait again [08:30:09] and this is the point [08:30:45] dormancy policy exists but no policy prevents me from making a bot edit daily [08:32:08] ok cool I might do cloudflare magic later [08:32:14] and it seems like im stuck on not being able to login on a new wiki still, even if i logged in again on, say, meta [08:32:47] im on phone rn tho, not very handy [08:33:48] it won't depend on certain IPs, I hope? [08:34:19] will try to do something smart where if you pass a challenge you can actually see the damn images [08:35:19] Like a wiki sphinx. [08:35:35] can i also not get them when i logged in? like it makes sense if anon uses vpn [08:35:54] just when vising a wiki [08:36:35] there are bots that can login but will put up for consideration internally [08:37:09] that'd probably be easier to implement tho [09:19:47] <90gq29> is anyone here able to confirm something about local permissions? i read on the main miraheze meta wiki that wikis can elect local suppressors along with checkuser rights " following a local election that fulfills all the requirements for steward" [09:20:38] <90gq29> meaning 15 votes of support, 80% support ratio, correct? [09:23:46] yes but there's a huge if to those permissions [09:24:00] if you even require them [09:24:19] not to mention having to sign a NDA with us [09:24:57] <90gq29, replying to pskyechology> like with your IRL name on it? [09:25:06] (spoiler alert: in most cases you absolutely do not) [09:25:12] yeah [09:25:36] <90gq29> wild, is that for suppressor too? [09:27:37] yeah [09:27:59] weird, [[UPP]] says 20 [09:28:00]

[09:28:25] <90gq29, replying to pskyechology> stewards page says 15 😭 [09:28:26] <90gq29> https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Stewards [09:28:39] <90gq29> is the req for local suppressor higher than global stewards? [09:28:55] <90gq29> that seems a bit odd if so, im guessing the page is just outdated [09:32:34] why odd? you aren't part of miraheze "staff", there needs to be a high level of trust [09:33:38] but again, it's not really that important to have these right [09:34:13] It is very very very unlikely local CU or Suppresser would be granted [09:34:21] I have never seen it in 8 years [09:34:25] <90gq29, replying to theoneandonlylegroom> suppression just completely deletes a page log, no? [09:34:55] i don't remember, but why do you need that? [09:35:11] <90gq29> :shrug: [09:35:16] <90gq29> im just reading up on things [09:35:47] <90gq29, replying to Zppix> well why even restrict suppressor this much [09:36:03] <90gq29> it doesnt seem like a "dangerous" permission with a ton of room for misuse, unlike "checkuser" [09:36:54] Supressor i believe can view suppressed things which could contain PII [09:37:13] Thus the need for an NDA [09:37:34] in most cases revdel is all a wiki would ever need [09:38:00] Suppression is only really used for disclosure of personal information and other rare use cases [09:38:13] <90gq29, replying to Zppix> would it not be ideal to just make a role that can suppress things, but cant see the suppressed stuff? [09:38:39] Thats not how MediaWiki works [09:38:58] [1/6] Help, Miraheze users. can you fix it? This image just like [09:38:58] [2/6] [09:38:58] [3/6] type=create [09:38:59] [4/6] /Inputbox [09:38:59] [5/6] https://popnmusiclapistoria.miraheze.org/wiki/Main_Page [09:38:59] [6/6] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1422518072346017842/Screenshot_2025-09-30-17-37-03-25_40deb401b9ffe8e1df2f1cc5ba480b12.jpg?ex=68dcf6b1&is=68dba531&hm=446a721927e3664c1985c928b421306b2e8034d0e3ed676ce12dba96ed8b36a1& [09:40:14] <90gq29, replying to Zppix> technical limitations? [09:40:42] Not technical limitations its a MediaWiki limitation [09:41:17] There is almost never a need for a wiki to have local supressors [09:41:24] Either [09:42:12] Stewards are usually available to do it fairly quickly (if it qualifies for suppression) [09:42:41] <90gq29, replying to Zppix> Rip [09:42:42] <90gq29> i suppose thats fair [09:42:50] we don't fuck around with suppressable stuff [09:43:37] Plus local suppressor, I could suppress your entire wiki and then what youre pretty much fucked [09:44:28] rather edge casey argument [09:44:35] <90gq29, replying to Zppix> could be undone, no? [09:44:45] <90gq29> the page said each wiki needed local 2 suppressors [09:45:13] Technically yes [09:45:17] I'd rather go with targeting users the elected suppressors dislike [09:45:27] that too [09:45:46] Theres tons of ways it could be misused some could have legal implications [09:45:48] <90gq29, replying to pskyechology> if someone was targeted, wouldn't they just be able to report it to a steward or local bureaucrat? [09:46:09] So it can join the already backlogged work Stewards have? [09:46:32] <90gq29> having local suppressors would reduce the overall workload, no? [09:46:41] assuming users know that they can do so [09:46:41] Suppression is rarely done [09:47:09] like 95% of it is just someone accidentally ip editing i swear [09:47:12] <90gq29> well a suppressor targetting someone maliciously is probably rarely done either [09:48:00] Probably because no ones been granted local suppressor [09:48:10] <90gq29, replying to Zppix> what if someone was... [09:48:27] <90gq29> requesting it to cover up local ip edits is a valid reason, yes? [09:48:35] Then I’m buying a lotto ticket cause it would be first in 8 years ive been here [09:48:38] Editing this article pls [09:48:43] ????? [09:48:46] <90gq29, replying to Zppix> there's a first for everything [09:49:27] can't you just revision delete that [09:49:38] This argument is becoming circular you would need to prove why your wiki can’t only be reliant on stewards to handle [09:49:41] <90gq29, replying to thewwrnerdguy> still visible to administrators of the local wiki [09:50:13] Which really wikis that would have a chance to do would be like AVID or ATT, ect [09:50:36] <90gq29, replying to Zppix> it would increase the workload of stewards, no? i recall you stewards already have a backlogged queue of stuff to do [09:50:50] Suppression isnt one of them [09:50:53] have you enabled the inputbox extension [09:51:03] And thats not a valid argument for needing a local one [09:51:12] If anything thats an argument for not having one [09:51:52] <90gq29, replying to Zppix> yeah but what is then [09:52:06] <90gq29> everything that local suppressors can do, can be done by stewards [09:52:18] Correct, but stewards are alot less likely to abuse [09:52:20] You can't just ask what they want to hear, that's not how it works. [09:52:44] <90gq29, replying to sakurababochka> i'm just saying you could say the same thing about every usage category of a local suppressor [09:53:10] Which is probably why there haven't been any in the last 8 years. [09:53:21] Anyway this argument is becoming a circular circular circle so I’mma disengage here [09:53:35] <90gq29, replying to sakurababochka> which begs the question of why the local role is even a thing [09:53:48] If you don't know why it exists, why do you want one? [09:54:24] <90gq29, replying to sakurababochka> where did i say that [09:54:35] <90gq29> if there's no need for one, the local checkuser and suppressor should be removed [09:54:39] the policy exists in case there's ever a valid case for needing one [09:54:53] and those rights exist anyway by default [09:54:57] stewards use them [09:55:30] you'll notice they give themselves that group when actioning on local wikis [09:56:06] what about removing local sysop's `deleterevision` right then [09:56:08] <90gq29, replying to pskyechology> could still use them while removing the criteria for requesting them [09:56:36] is that kinda making crat similar to suppressor [09:56:37] https://discord.com/channels/407504499280707585/407537962553966603/1422522021291626548 [09:57:55] <90gq29, replying to pskyechology> if there haven't been any valid cases in nearly a decade, is there really a reason to believe there will be in the future? [09:58:18] in case there ever is one [09:58:30] setting up new policies takes time via rfc [09:58:55] means we won't have to wait 3 months when that time arrives [09:59:24] Heres a question: Is it hurting anyone by existing even if it hasnt been used in 8 years? [09:59:40] trans women in women's sports be like [10:00:06] "we don't use this policy so lets not have this policy" is a baaaaaaaad argument [10:00:16] but like... probability of local suppressor going rogue > probability of steward going rogue [10:01:30] but not equal to the possibility of servers going rogue [10:01:33] xD [10:01:35] lmfao [10:01:58] sorry we're building skynet in the backyard [10:02:05] don't mind the downtime [10:02:20] I thought we agree’d we were calling it ZppixNet [10:02:40] <90gq29, replying to Zppix> it doesn't but the page itself is a bit misleading [10:02:48] How [10:03:00] <90gq29> if you just read the stuff on miraheze you wouldn't think that no local userrights of that type had ever been granted [10:03:03] true someone should put in a disclaimer that you probably don't need thrse [10:03:26] <90gq29> it's written in a way that puts the weight on the "local election" part [10:03:49] You gotta remember I’ve been here practically since Miraheze was a smol baby, I dont read the policies the same as most because I understand them and the reason they exist [10:04:01] <90gq29> nor does it mention the NDA or strict scrutiny for the rights by a steward [10:04:04] miraheze elder [10:04:12] UPP does mention NDA [10:04:26] <90gq29> UPP does but the pages on the roles themselves dont [10:04:30] <90gq29> check ctrl f on these pages [10:04:32] <90gq29> https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Suppression [10:04:41] <90gq29> https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/CheckUser [10:04:43] “A user can only be granted the CheckUser or Suppression permissions following a local election that satisfies minimum standards that cannot be circumvented by local policy. This includes: [10:04:43] A minimum of 20 unique votes [10:04:43] An 80% support ratio, and [10:04:43] A signed NDA with the WikiTide Foundation. [10:04:43] Wikis with local CheckUsers or Suppressors are required to have a minimum of two of each. Both the election and following use will be subject to high supervision from Stewards to ensure compliance with global policy.” [10:05:53] <90gq29, replying to Zppix> correct but all of this should be listed on the local rights section of the specific permission pages themselves [10:05:59] <90gq29> there's no reason not to mention them [10:06:24] <90gq29> other than not wanting to touch an old miraheze policy page [10:06:43] can't wait to make an rfc for it that takes three months to close [10:07:01] Enable the `InputBox` extension on ManageWiki/extensions. [10:07:01] Actually [10:07:16] An RFC already exists i believe to consolidate those pages [10:07:23] Harej was working on something [10:07:25] <90gq29, replying to BlankEclair> needing an rfc to fix/add small bits of information is a bit much, no? [10:07:27] since the local permission sections aren't policy you can just edit those lol [10:07:36] oh lol [10:07:38] oops [10:07:43] <90gq29, replying to pskyechology> u can? [10:08:01] yeah on the two pages you just linked [10:08:13] just have to link to UPP problem solved [10:09:43] <90gq29> ill add the link then [10:09:59] <90gq29> nvm pages are protected [10:11:06] @posix_memalign hellooo i think you can edit these two's local sections to link to [[UPP]] [10:11:06]

[10:11:36] i think there's a "main page is" template which would be perfect [10:23:12] The local groups exist in every wiki because it's against policy to hold the rights globally [10:23:24] Stewards will assign themselves to the local group when doing it [10:26:58] Steward was updated to 15 in https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Requests_for_Comment/Global_groups_reform#Proposal_2.1:_Elections_to_Roles [10:27:25] I was gonna take care of this after reading through the conversation, but since some MH Monthly things came up in #volunteering, I'll deal with it tomorrow unless another meta admin beats me to it. [10:31:13] sleep well (at least I think you're going to sleep) [10:31:41] (i cant be bothered to do timezone maths rn) [10:32:04] If you do timezone math you're notice that I'm supposed to get out of bed now lol. [10:32:16] ((simple arithmetics in the 10s is hard)) [10:32:43] have a pleasant day in the filling your brain with slop factory [10:43:10] Okay [10:44:50] [10:51:47] [1/2] What happened to Infobox? [10:51:47] [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1422536398942240840/Screenshot_2025-09-30-18-51-08-32_40deb401b9ffe8e1df2f1cc5ba480b12.jpg?ex=68dd07c2&is=68dbb642&hm=f4d0c0cfc0a7d8206e0ab0f564489cc356973130538a8cc4a83d7c2ce7c2268c& [10:52:08] `` is an invalid tag i believe [10:52:13] use `` [10:53:30] Okay [10:53:34]