[00:24:28] What does it say [00:30:31] Thank you so much, it works perfectly! [03:01:29] hihi! im not sure if this is the right place to ask, but I need help with wiki perms, and i dont know where to go... [03:02:02] So when im signed out of my acc (to test how outsiders will see the wiki i created), it's only limited to members and administrators, how do i change that? thanks! [03:04:28] what is limited to only members and administrators? viewing the page or editing? anyway, you can change perms of individual usergroups at `Special:ManageWiki/permissions` [03:04:39] Special:ManageWiki/core if your wiki's private [03:04:57] thank you!! [03:05:11] so sorry im really bad with settings... šŸ’” [03:05:41] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1423506265015062610/image.png?ex=68e08f05&is=68df3d85&hm=0d43f89344176c32b2bdf5b2c479f2371d9996447127c30800e899ace924513c& [03:05:44] sniffles [03:05:49] the main page is working though [03:08:46] viewing the page [03:09:08] is your wiki a private wiki? if so, you need to be logged in to view it [03:10:23] iirc anyone who tries to view your wiki with a logged in account can then be granted the "member" usergroup to see the rest of the wiki [03:11:13] ohhh [03:11:29] okok thank you [03:12:16] is it ok if you can test it out to see if it works? [03:12:19] bc im not too sure [03:13:26] uh sure, if you can drop me a link to your wiki [03:25:23] have you unchecked the Private button [03:29:09] okok tysm! [03:29:12] i managed to find it [04:12:23] question: it says that I was blocked in an IP range or smth like that. The reason was 'cross-wiki abuse' I did nothing wrong. [04:15:46] [1/2] if its like this then follow the instructions [04:15:46] [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1423486164270317638/1423486167076311081/helpppp.png?ex=68e07c4d&is=68df2acd&hm=1a8ab509438aa9a593abf6a0f0dd9c78a12c65b7c5112c2006f52aa367b81ba8& [04:19:02] are you using a vpn? [04:20:40] you were probably caught on accident by a range block to stop some bots [04:21:47] if you're using a vpn, you can try turning it off and making an ccount like that. otherwise, you can email cvt like it says [04:30:14] I need to get through some of those emails tomorrow :sweatE: [04:31:00] lol good luck! [04:45:43] [1/2] man. [04:45:43] [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1423531432617316423/image.png?ex=68e0a675&is=68df54f5&hm=56006f9274450bcaa589c018f4db2eb9863eb67fa3da31db33dcb1ef5b6bb958& [05:01:04] its an issue with the svg then [05:01:38] literally exported it from photoshop [05:01:47] photoshop what did u doo!!! [06:28:23] [1/3] Wanted to ask if my idea is something I could host on miraheze. [06:28:23] [2/3] I want to make an organized repository of creative commons car photos, primarily using dpl. The ultimate goal is to have a cc photo of every vehicle in every configuration by encouraging people to apply a cc license to photos of vehicles they spotted and upload them to wikimedia commons or a similar resource. [06:28:23] [3/3] Most photos won't be uploaded to miraheze, we'll encourage to use wikimedia commons for this. [06:30:51] I don't see why not [10:27:05] [1/2] This. [10:27:06] [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1423617347180171396/image.png?ex=68e0f679&is=68dfa4f9&hm=fe55a392682b565782ca8330920fd4a235fa8fb83eb3f65e3bdd89d194e7b252& [10:27:37] thought they got kicked [12:31:02] still same [13:36:32] That was a new error, which I just fixed in , so could you try again? [13:47:04] It’s working thanks [14:00:22] I might have one on [14:51:15] [1/2] How would I be able to make the create page button appear and change it to a visual editor? i was in Special:ManageWiki but it didn't load or work. [14:51:16] [2/2] I'm trying to just make my Wiki look like/have the features of an encyclopedia like Wiki [15:56:54] can u help me with something [16:02:26] @kiju1108 can u help me [16:03:08] Please do not directly ping our tech team for non-technical issues, and without explaining the issue. We have multiple volunteers on the server, each with limited time to assist. [16:04:11] Most basic questions of wiki setup are covered in https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Contents [16:04:34] but they never respond there [16:07:49] <90gq29> [1/2] whats with DPL adding two category tags to a page [16:07:49] <90gq29> [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1423703094340096121/9fcBNl0.png?ex=68e14654&is=68dff4d4&hm=e8fe7e73ec32055850701241e403ac11519121ab2089bcb33e4ed70112af8fe5& [16:08:17] you should just send what you need help with and someone may help [16:10:38] no [16:10:50] okq [16:11:09] [1/2] You won't be able to create a page (or use a createpage button) inside Special:ManageWiki, that's a reserved namespace. [16:11:09] [2/2] I would recommend looking into the Create Page or InputBox extensions, both of which can do this somewhat out of box. [16:11:26] Defaulting to visual editor requires a few more tricks, and there's a few approaches that could be used. [16:12:04] can i dm you an issue [16:12:06] Look, ask your question here, if it's technical via helpdesk, or if it's a steward/enforcement matter, email stewards@miraheze.org. We do not provide support via DMs. [16:13:09] can you hide my ip adress from everyone becasue i made an account and i do not want it to be shown [16:13:11] If it's a sensitive matter directly related to this server, yes, DMs are permitted. [16:14:02] If you don't want the account any longer, file a removal request at reports.miraheze.org. If you want us to hide a place where you edited while logged out, email stewards@miraheze.org with the place the edit happened. [16:14:25] i believe their issue is wanting to get their ip suppressed [16:14:31] yes [16:14:32] In that case, email stewards [16:14:43] cant you just do it now [16:14:50] No, I work a 9-5 job [16:15:08] i wonder why mediawiki shows your IP [16:15:56] yes that is a very big security concern [16:16:07] gotta identify you somehow [16:16:09] also vandalism [16:16:56] will i get all my personal date stolen now [16:17:01] yes [16:17:05] no [16:17:19] panic!!! break your computers!!! [16:17:28] they are collecting our personal data!!!!! [16:17:40] now im worrying all day abt my internet [16:17:44] aaaah!!! 😱 [16:17:50] shut up [16:18:00] there's not all that much that can be done with your IP [16:18:06] i don't think you have to be rude [16:18:07] Inappropriate, first and last warning. [16:18:35] https://tenor.com/view/peter-griffin-family-guy-rapping-rap-peter-griffin-rapping-gif-14452376933942016948 [16:18:40] I appreciate that you're concerned, but there's really not a ton one can do in most cases with that info. A steward will get to it when they can. [16:20:43] i have already made a request on the steward website is that ok [16:21:01] [[SR]] [16:21:02] [16:23:00] For future reference, I specifically requested it be sent via email to avoid public disclosure. [16:25:53] [1/2] Yes I was looking for those extensions thanks [16:25:53] [2/2] Now all I have to do is make the infoboxes appear correct but idk how because they won’t appear on the right or within boxes [16:26:12] This is now done, please send via email next time. [16:27:14] Thank you so much i love you [16:50:09] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1336010289161961512/1349917844024066200/image0.gif [16:51:15] https://tenor.com/view/winkythedwarfcat-cat-kitty-purr-puss-gif-26710957 [16:53:10] is https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Special:RequestWikiQueue/1 the first ever miraheze wiki [16:57:33] It's the first wiki request approved - I think Meta was the first actual wiki created [16:57:40] that is correct [16:58:05] [1/2] https://communities.miraheze.org/wiki/List_of_wikis_by_creation_date [16:58:05] [2/2] Login is earlier by WikiDiscover's returned timestamp. [16:59:03] i wonder how different miraheze was back then [17:03:33] <.guardianx.> Casual question, I had a bunch of recipes in my wiki that were all placed under the "Recipe: NAME" format (done by a helper that was helping and didn't understand that "NAME:" is for namespaces) I doubled down on that oops and made a namespace "Recipe" just now with the intent to migrate all those pages but...not IO can't find rthem. [17:05:26] I could run , which should find and fix those duplicates [17:05:28] Which wiki? [17:05:39] <.guardianx.> I see Skye is already looking into my spilled milk heh, ty [17:05:52] Is she? [17:06:03] <.guardianx.> well I got a notice they made ana ccount [17:06:10] ah [17:06:20] @pskyechology do you plan to run namespaceDupes or should I [17:06:32] feel free to https://leontlibrary.miraheze.org/ [17:06:43] <.guardianx.> ty both [17:07:40] 557 links, that's a lot [17:08:43] <.guardianx.> Yeah it's a WIP MMO, I wanna say abotu 9ish professions for now [17:09:23] can you check whether it's fixed now? I don't have an example page that was broken before [17:09:37] <.guardianx.> the issue I can see will be that I wanna say he prepended a lot of names with spaces so the result is like "Recipe: NAME" [17:10:25] [1/2] it fixed those [17:10:25] [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1423718848208699412/image.png?ex=68e15500&is=68e00380&hm=fe35949b75b0e15ca705b74f0ef416f63c2f12ba4d7d7a9b0880a90056e9392d& [17:11:09] <.guardianx.> Yeah I checked a rng one and it seems fine. Basic Campfire [17:11:26] Nice [17:11:58] <.guardianx.> thank yall again [17:13:12] [1/2] @abaddriverlol do you think we need to run another script cause searching for those pages is weird [17:13:13] [2/2] "recipe" suggests multiple pages, as it should but "recipe:" gives nothing lol [17:13:40] is the wiki using CS? [17:13:54] nope [17:13:58] <.guardianx.> Could be timing? I made the namespace about 30 min ago [17:14:26] we could update or rebuild the search index I suppose [17:15:00] <.guardianx.> I just got major "we could restart the server" vibes from that heh [17:15:19] nah then we would die from user complaints [17:15:24] i'll run rebuildtextindex [17:15:31] do it in a screen [17:15:32] it might take some time [17:15:37] always do [17:15:41] nice [17:16:03] <.guardianx.> hehe it's an old old video where a admin gets pressured into rebooting a webserver while he's trying to play halo [17:16:32] ... that was like 20s lol [17:16:53] search still behaves the same tho [17:16:54] [1/2] on vocaloidlyricswiki it took 30 mins so I guess that's still way bigger lol [17:16:54] [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1423720480283689061/image.png?ex=68e15685&is=68e00505&hm=d4216b2c90464df72781528e7f6550eba637fd2b5be65abfd9de8328f95a0997& [17:17:03] oh yeah they're huge [17:17:12] plus potential mwtask181 slowness [17:17:25] i've started maining mwtask171 [17:18:19] <.guardianx.> to make sure this doesn't happen again when I eventually do "Spells" should I migrate them off the "Spell: NAME" pages before creating a namespace? [17:18:32] there's probably some other script out of the hundreds that exist [17:18:48] i'll try my favourite, rebuildall [17:18:50] you could also create the namespace now and I could run the script again [17:21:14] <.guardianx.> Doen and done, let the chaos ensue [17:21:59] 768 this time [17:22:19] should be done [17:24:38] <.guardianx.> That actually kinda shocks me, I think he put "Spell Scrolls" the item under the "Spell: NAME" format so It'll be interesting to see how all this eventually settles. Needed to do this for a whiel sicne there is / will be a decent amount of naming overlap. Quests is the final namespace, but that doersn't have any of the issues, as far as I am aware. [17:25:09] <.guardianx.> So again, thanks a ton! heh [17:31:22] Helloooo again, if I change `$wgLocaltimezone`, do I have to wait for rollover for the server time to reset, or will it do so after a few minutes? [17:32:13] (working on a template using magic words specific to localisation and just want to plan accordingly) [17:53:32] does anyone wanna play? [17:55:13] this a wiki hosting support server, not gaming server [17:55:26] oh mb [18:17:58] if a page has a colon in it's not the end of the world, e.g. see https://battlecats.miraheze.org/wiki/Idi:Re [19:57:23] <90gq29> anyone know a wiki that makes good use of SMW? [20:09:41] Does anyone know if it's possible to make dark mode the main theme for Vector 2022? [20:09:48] or just set it to default [20:31:27] iirc there's a setting but you gotta request it trough phorge atm [20:33:22] is it because it's broken or something else? [20:34:11] no, i haven't heard such reports [20:34:20] ah okay [20:34:39] i'm gonna ask my friend about it (cause for sure we don't want to get flashbanged whenever we get logged out) [20:35:09] [[mw:Skin:Vector 2022]] [20:35:11] [20:44:46] There is a "Dark Vector" skin on MediaWiki.org but has been [declined on Meta](https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Skins#Rejected%20skins) [20:45:13] Per: https://issue-tracker.miraheze.org/T6693 [20:50:39] ```Please attempt to follow the instructions on https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Skin:Vector-DarkCSS. DarkVector is based on that and is better because it will support up-to-date vector as well likely.``` [20:50:57] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Skin:Vector-DarkCSS [20:51:27] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1423774474255466592/image.png?ex=68e188cf&is=68e0374f&hm=2ae0a2d87d759b5825d39ba61ef3b21c1fab8139a06de94be8bc52c972708b56& [20:51:31] Oh... LOL. That has been archived [20:51:37] Yeah.. Sorry [20:51:42] no worries [20:52:58] [1/2] ```The vector CSS you linked to is out of date, as mentioned in the Discussion page on MediaWiki. Another user explicitly recommends using the skin I linked to instead. Even if the custom CSS worked, the CSS would not apply to certain restricted pages, resulting in the user being blinded by a sudden light theme.``` [20:52:59] [2/2] I should have read on on that page heh [20:55:07] citizen and vector 2022 are probably the most safe skins in terms of NOT flashbanging you [20:56:04] Is there an easy way for updates on Miraheze to be sent to a discord to show updates/changelogs [20:57:42] <90gq29, replying to itsstqr> [1/2] just click "follow" [20:57:42] <90gq29, replying to itsstqr> [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1423776044812337243/QKDwq8N.png?ex=68e18a45&is=68e038c5&hm=5197c553756ae2519f404d00cb7e70baa0143d61e079138b772eab727039f757& [20:57:48] <90gq29> on any channel with the megaphone icon [20:57:54] I mean on a miraheze wiki [20:58:14] So if someone changes something on the wiki itll show "User edited X page +500 bytes" [20:58:18] or smth like that [20:58:25] <90gq29, replying to itsstqr> oh yeah [20:58:46] <90gq29> [1/2] like this? @itsstqr [20:58:46] <90gq29> [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1423776313659101304/OFmZ9B5.png?ex=68e18a85&is=68e03905&hm=fd8393396392cc3913b8451708534c89c5318936df08d4dea7dd8fe3c9d77d36& [20:58:57] Yeah something like that [20:59:19] how can i add that? [20:59:40] <90gq29, replying to itsstqr> could use https://wikibot.wikiadev.org/ [20:59:45] <90gq29> i think there are a few different versions [21:00:00] Hi, I believe a friend had a wiki wrongly rejected, who could i message about that? [21:00:39] <90gq29, replying to itsstqr> theres also this https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:DiscordNotifications [21:00:56] <90gq29> and i think the bot i linked is open source? might have a few forks if so [21:00:57] Is there like a specific steward? I know another wiki that was initially rejected for the exact same reason, before later being accepted [21:01:00] <90gq29> i remember seeing two different versions [21:01:33] @pixldev 🄺 [21:01:34] <90gq29, replying to euphoria.holic> honestly not sure maybe #support ? [21:01:58] Appeal it by editing and commenting on the request itself [21:02:10] Will another steward reply? [21:02:37] Was it declined by one of us or the AI [21:02:45] https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1168983218029088879/1423775169637388360/IMG_9639.png?ex=68e18974&is=68e037f4&hm=10c0194dff8a156a43444d3226b5a38a346ea00b45ebb76bca4ed2f7ff0636d9& [21:02:48] No idea [21:02:55] Here’s the screenie they sent [21:03:09] So Ro declined I [21:03:31] is this the same guy who initially rejected the vlw? [21:03:58] I don’t know, likely [21:04:38] Ro is our main and currently only reviewer who’s solidly active, since Jph is on break, stewards are few and thin, etc [21:05:15] Fair, if they do reply will someone else see it? [21:05:39] Not right away obviously but like at some point [21:06:57] Possibly? Like I said there aren’t many others reviewing, and I don’t see any reason to disagree with what Ro left. If you’d like to ask for someone else to give a second opinion, you can I guess [21:07:33] As someone who edits on the Vocaloid Lyrics Wiki I don’t get the rejection ig [21:07:52] sigh [21:07:54] We have over 100k pages, mostly lyrics, and we got approved [21:08:10] is rejected wiki music related? [21:08:15] Yeah [21:09:06] We had a massive music wiki get approved a few months ago so I’m just confused as to why this one was rejected [21:09:57] Ro, let's say, is very cautious about copyrights and this isn't the first time he rejects a music wiki req, despite several wikis already existing and operating [21:10:30] Yeah that’s what i was wondering, because the vocaloid lyrics wiki also got rejected, but someone else approved us later [21:10:42] although I'm gonna say uploading music directly to wiki is bad idea [21:11:03] Yeah no that’s solidly in the ungood category [21:11:08] Yeah obviously, I don’t believe they do thay [21:11:11] *that [21:11:22] neither do i [21:11:22] They wanted to move because fandom was forcing lyric removals [21:11:33] Nothing to do with file uploading [21:11:42] lyrics copyright is our bane of existence [21:12:11] May be worth at some point clarifying and making a consistent standard for these things with T&S [21:12:26] But it’s hardly a priority [21:12:28] Would be nice if possible, wonder how often this happens tbh [21:13:05] all artists/bands fan projects have lyrics, i mean it's hard to imagine one w/o them [21:13:20] unless fully instrumental lol [21:13:23] not with T&S if possible however, that should be a community thing until we're literally forced legally to follow T&S [21:14:05] In the meantime is there someone i can tell them to email, especially with the permission they got to host lyrics? [21:14:24] Agree overall, I say T&S here because copyright and liability are their terf [21:14:40] wiki shutdowns over copyright on miraheze, the ones ive seen, were rather specific and were around tv shows [21:15:19] I’ll pass them the t&s email, thank you so much [21:16:15] You mean for the wiki request or for the lyric permission? [21:16:29] For the wiki request [21:18:12] Essentially to get like a second opinion and ideally go against the steward since there are other wikis that host similar content and are allowed [21:19:13] Ro’s not a Steward [21:19:23] Just as a point of logic, you can't specifically request a second opinion that contradicts the first. [21:19:27] That's not how it works. [21:19:42] I know, I’m just saying i think like anyone else would probably disagree [21:19:55] Especially considering the vocaloid lyrics wiki is on muraheze now [21:21:38] Literally adding more lyrics to it rn 😭 [21:21:48] [1/2] as admin of a music wiki and knowing handful of several other music wikis, on Miraheze and independent ones, i agree that this isn't fair judgment, we had this discussion [21:21:48] [2/2] if preventing copyright violation prevent us to start the project what the point of running any fan wiki then [21:22:08] Leave a comment/edit the request to appeal [21:22:43] I do agree that it’s weird if we aren’t applying the policies consistently, so this should probably be discussed more thoroughly by the Wiki Review/Steward team [21:23:13] I can see about bringing it up later [21:23:35] But Im at work and have homework later so no promises on that from me [21:23:45] Thank you so much šŸ™ [21:24:00] Do also wanna get an opinion from Trust and Safety for what they think [21:25:10] regarding the Wiki-Bot topic I noticed just now. I'm aware of two versions of Wiki-Bot running - original one hosted by MarkusRost and Fandom hosted one - hosted by Fandom, which is a fork/their own hosted one they did when they felt it was too vital to their communities and Markus was leaving Fandom [21:25:43] the more you know [21:27:02] They felt threatened :3 [21:27:37] after one of their contractors already pulled a rug from under them and took away their own bots lol [21:33:36] Well that's what happens when you fuck around a find out [21:33:54] precisely [21:48:47] Me! [21:50:31] I will get notified of any changes on your request [21:51:59] Lyrics are almost always copyrighted, that's why I decline requests for wikis that will host lyrics. Unles clear permission is given by the authors or copyright owners, we cannot host them [21:56:34] No terfs in T&S, jut FYI [21:56:40] But that's just not true, you may think they're a major liability but a massive lyric-centric wiki got added like 6 months ago so clearly people disagree [21:57:04] I think we have always been much more lenient on copyright than that. Most gaming wikis are using copyrighted game assets in a way that exceeds the bounds of fair use. [21:57:05] [1/4] My point of view is the same as with images and videos. [21:57:05] [2/4] It is content [[w:copyright]] explains in detail what Copyright entails. [21:57:05] [3/4] I have to enforce law over policy. If our community contradicts the law, than I have to go against the community. [21:57:06] [4/4] I can only report to the stewards what I think is wrong, but I can prevent request being approved from my position. [21:57:06] [21:57:39] Then are you gonna delete all the music wikis on miraheze...? [21:57:48] we're not the only ones [21:58:14] I am not a steward, so I am not in the place to close wikis down, but I would have done so, if I was a steward [22:00:07] ...I'll keep adding lyrics then. [22:00:31] [1/3] As a Wiki Reviewer I am liable for the actions that I do. [22:00:32] [2/3] If I approve wikis, that violate copyright, I am complicit in you doing stuff that is Illegal in the US (See [[Content Policy]]) [22:00:32] [3/3] So you might be sour at me for declining such wikis, but then you have to indeed ask for a second opinion. [22:00:32] [22:01:08] And for the record, when it was announced that Vocaloid was to join Miraheze, I was forcefully against it! [22:01:09] Will weigh in on this in a bit, it's still my workday. [22:01:41] I am aware, but since we are part of Miraheze, there's no reason to deny this wiki [22:01:46] Hi guys [22:02:24] Yes there is. From my point of view, I explained the rationale [22:03:32] You can ask on [[SR/M]] a 2nd opinion of you like, or in the request itself, and I will divert it to other reviewers [22:03:33] [22:03:39] HI guys i am new here [22:03:49] welcome welcome [22:05:12] I am making a Pacific Related Wiki where it will cover everything in the Pacific. Currently it is getting reviewed and i do need some help. Any help from anyone would be greatly appreciated by a mile. Thank you in advance! [22:06:15] What is the link to your request? [22:06:40] https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Special:RequestWikiQueue/67102 [22:08:05] Here you go @rodejong [22:08:48] <90gq29> is anyone aware if you can make images from SMW tables clickable? [22:08:55] <90gq29> me and chatgpt cant figure it out [22:11:11] [1/2] I already covered it tho [22:11:12] [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1423794540862767104/image.png?ex=68e19b7f&is=68e049ff&hm=39f9e8fd34fc231159e5782494e2f17e37f311c8838d5a8cdc508932fd8302b3& [22:20:04] True, but half. You have a clear image in mind, but for me it sounds abstract and tells me, "pages about the Pacific" but nothing of the scenarios, stories, or what the meaning of these pages will be. I need a more clearer image to understand what the wiki will be used for. šŸ™‚ [22:20:45] [1/2] Will focus on Pacific related things like the countries like Papua New Guinea, Climate such as the temperatures in specific areas, geography and point of view of nations and the History of it. Along with documenting other events that occurred in the Pacific. It will also include prominent figures for countries or civil groups and will have a detailed biograph [22:20:46] [2/2] y for each one and will be written based on sources. There will also be political parties and newspapers and their history. It has to apply to the Miraheze copyright laws when uploading images. [22:20:55] is this good? [22:31:09] Pretty good, IMO [22:41:42] Thank you! [22:42:05] Can someone please review it? [22:42:57] Done [22:44:52] Thank you so much! [22:49:21] You're very welcome [22:49:30] https://thepacificwiki.miraheze.org/wiki/Main_Page [22:50:43] [1/3] The [[Content Policy]] backs me up in this: [22:50:43] [2/3] Wikis must not host anything that is illegal in the United States. [22:50:43] [3/3] Pursuant to the Terms of Use, Miraheze will not approve any wikis in furtherance of violating U.S. law, or host any content that is illegal in the United States. Miraheze may remove such content without notice. [22:50:43] [23:32:48] [1/7] A legal expert knows this better, but AFAIK whether something violates copyright law can only be definitively determined in court (esp. in regards to fair use claims). Wikipedia does things very conservatively because they don't take risks, but our situation is very different. [23:32:48] [2/7] I would say for any reasonably developed gaming wiki on MH, if the game's developer/publisher makes a lawsuit for copyright infringement, the wiki will definitely lose due to excessive use of the game's text/assets. That's all hypothetical because [23:32:49] [3/7] 1. No sane game developer/publisher would do that. [23:32:49] [4/7] 2. If they do want to take the wiki down, they simply needs to contact MH to have wiki content removed. There is no need to go to court, and I believe that if MH complies with the complainant, we won't be in legal trouble (by DMCA Title II). We do not need to aggressively reject wiki requests preemptively to stay complaint legally, but only a lawyer knows [23:32:49] [5/7] how things will work out. [23:32:50] [6/7] 3. Neither the wiki nor MH will have the funding or willingness to go to court. I had thought of an unfortunate scenario before. Suppose a wiki tries to stay compliant to copyright law and is as vigilant as Wikipedia. For some reason, the copyright holder (with an army of lawyers) doesn't like that and threatens a lawsuit. We consult a lawyer who says we [23:32:50] [7/7] have a 99% chance of winning the case, but neither the WTF nor wiki admins are willing to throw thousands of dollars (at least) into the lawsuit. I don't know what we can do to protect wiki content in this case. But I digress. [23:45:10] [1/4] I have always been conservative, then you can not get in trouble. I have always been respectful in obeying the law. I don't take things as relaxed as most do here. That is my stance. [23:45:10] [2/4] In that way we are all different. I am not going to disrespect others who do approve wikis more relaxedly. But I also want that respect the other way around. [23:45:11] [3/4] I stick to the law, and that has always worked well for me. I even stand still for red light on a sunday morning when there is no traffic light. My conscience is wired that way. Some might find that stupid. [23:45:11] [4/4] But if everyone is violating copyright, does that make it right? Not in my world. Then I stick out as that stickler for copyright, an nuisance to most, but at least I will not get in trouble, and I have a clean conscience. [23:45:36] We should just never host content on the internet ever :EpicFaceMH: [23:46:01] That is a non-argument [23:46:39] Fully aware i just wanted to say it to be annoying [23:47:45] [1/5] Since I already digressed, here's a story from moegirlpedia. We had a wiki page about a VTuber. It was just like any other VTuber page and didn't have any questionable content. Somehow the company behind said VTuber does not like it and wanted to take it down. Obviously wiki editors ignored them, so they went to the wiki's hosting company and threat [23:47:45] [2/5] ened a lawsuit because we have an image on the page which violates their copyright. It was a classic fair use situation where we had 1 image of the subject in the entire article (just like Wikipedia). Unfortunately the wiki's host decided that it was too risky and just removed image. A lot of us were upset, but there weren't much we could do about i [23:47:45] [3/5] t. I am of the opinion that the article did not violate any copyright law, but that's just the way it turned out. [23:47:45] [4/5] I suppose the crux of the story is that the risk of hosting a piece of wiki content has little to do with how complaint you are but more to do with what the copyright holder wants. [23:47:46] [5/5] I fear that something similar might happen in the future to a MH wiki and we'd have little recourse. Fortunately I have not seen it happen yet. [23:51:32] [1/2] I would echo Pix's opinion that more consistency in the WR team would make things a lot easier. We have NA's [scrutinized topics](https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/User:NotAracham/Help:Scrutinized_Topics), but a lot of things are up to the WR's judgement. [23:51:32] [2/2] This rearrangement reminds me of common law: past WR decisions should help form consensus on how to approach new requests about wikis with similar a topic/scope.