[02:15:33] <MirahezeRelay>	 <bartomelow> the future of mediawiki skins is when they start using codex
[02:39:02] <MirahezeRelay>	 <bluebear9062> [1/5] bro
[02:39:02] <MirahezeRelay>	 <bluebear9062> [2/5] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1495252353287454750/1.jpg?ex=69e591c5&is=69e44045&hm=9a7c686568e5462a001f8900f896d2f526eb86a2ae88a3767e408356aefe6df0&
[02:39:02] <MirahezeRelay>	 <bluebear9062> [3/5] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1495252354298023977/2.jpg?ex=69e591c5&is=69e44045&hm=b462afad9329f541dd8de9c1760bb686846e59ff54676149c8ee334397eca50f&
[02:39:03] <MirahezeRelay>	 <bluebear9062> [4/5] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1495252354738688000/3.jpg?ex=69e591c5&is=69e44045&hm=c744ea43f182485f7afd0d78c26f72cd9302ddb746bf93ca059554e29a59aedb&
[02:39:03] <MirahezeRelay>	 <bluebear9062> [5/5] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1495252355128492142/4.jpg?ex=69e591c5&is=69e44045&hm=a3582214a7f8b2840d869ca08f9903fc56a119030cb79d6bd13b8aa6fbaf3ab6&
[03:44:13] <MirahezeRelay>	 <opposition.1> bro what is this place
[03:44:49] <MirahezeRelay>	 <hihello_what_are_you_doing_here> Miraheze support server
[03:56:00] <MirahezeRelay>	 <gunbomberj> bro i tried doing the always dark mode thing and its still not working for new users
[03:56:10] <MirahezeRelay>	 <gunbomberj> if they refresh it goes back to light mode
[03:57:00] <MirahezeRelay>	 <posix_memalign, replying to gunbomberj> Link to your wiki?
[03:57:06] <MirahezeRelay>	 <posix_memalign> #verify to send links btw
[03:57:35] <MirahezeRelay>	 <gunbomberj, replying to posix_memalign> https://oabd.miraheze.org/wiki/Main_Page
[03:57:53] <MirahezeRelay>	 <gunbomberj> It's like extremely unfinished and stuff lol no files are uploaded yet
[03:58:02] <MirahezeRelay>	 <gunbomberj> I'm just making the formatting for stuff first
[04:03:32] <MirahezeRelay>	 <posix_memalign, replying to gunbomberj> Would you mind if I touch your wiki's `MediaWiki:Renderblocking.js`? I think I know the solution but want to make sure it works.
[04:03:48] <MirahezeRelay>	 <gunbomberj, replying to posix_memalign> Sure
[04:04:50] <MirahezeRelay>	 <gunbomberj, replying to posix_memalign> [1/2] Also, how would I make things transparent so the background is one unified color?
[04:04:51] <MirahezeRelay>	 <gunbomberj, replying to posix_memalign> [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1495273949997699112/chrome_KBkQLP3brQ.png?ex=69e5a5e2&is=69e45462&hm=66d2032a40ff7e0fce467c76c1db57af9f1b1ecc5cac0909227e1496389d2bda&
[04:04:53] <MirahezeRelay>	 <gunbomberj> kinda like this
[04:10:26] <MirahezeRelay>	 <posix_memalign> Nvm I was thinking of something else. It's quite odd because I see other wikis working fine using the same snippet even when I'm logged out and refresh the page. I'll investigate a bit more.
[04:12:49] <MirahezeRelay>	 <gunbomberj, replying to posix_memalign> Huh.. alright
[04:44:58] <MirahezeRelay>	 <gunbomberj> Any luck?
[04:52:23] <MirahezeRelay>	 <posix_memalign, replying to gunbomberj> You have Theme Toggle installed on your wiki which conflicts with the script.
[04:52:30] <MirahezeRelay>	 <gunbomberj, replying to posix_memalign> Ah alright
[04:53:55] <MirahezeRelay>	 <posix_memalign> The joy of working with 300+ extensions lol.
[04:54:20] <MirahezeRelay>	 <gunbomberj, replying to posix_memalign> I've disabled theme toggle and It's still not working
[04:54:44] <MirahezeRelay>	 <posix_memalign, replying to gunbomberj> Wait for cache to clear.
[04:54:53] <MirahezeRelay>	 <gunbomberj> ok
[07:41:33] <MirahezeRelay>	 <afterglou> https://reconvergentfates.miraheze.org/wiki/Template:Character
[07:41:44] <MirahezeRelay>	 <afterglou> Where in here would I enter in <center> so that the Infobox title itself is centered
[07:41:53] <MirahezeRelay>	 <afterglou> [1/2] example being this
[07:41:54] <MirahezeRelay>	 <afterglou> [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1495328572947169342/image.png?ex=69e5d8c1&is=69e48741&hm=512abd18a3477f932c8aaed017436b727cbe07f26a28bfec74629433bc0ea5c6&
[07:41:55] <MirahezeRelay>	 <afterglou> not centered
[07:45:47] <MirahezeRelay>	 <afterglou> wait maybe i got it
[07:46:48] <MirahezeRelay>	 <afterglou> nevermind
[07:47:24] <MirahezeRelay>	 <afterglou> oh wait?
[07:48:29] <MirahezeRelay>	 <afterglou> no i dont have it...
[08:14:00] <MirahezeRelay>	 <smiling_sky, replying to afterglou> wait
[08:14:10] <MirahezeRelay>	 <smiling_sky> did u get it yet
[08:30:04] <MirahezeRelay>	 <afterglou> no…
[08:30:08] <MirahezeRelay>	 <afterglou> i thought i did like twice
[08:30:11] <MirahezeRelay>	 <afterglou> lowkey had a
[08:30:24] <MirahezeRelay>	 <afterglou> https://tenor.com/view/urethra-i-got-it-idea-light-bulb-meme-gif-14250792407645567538
[08:30:26] <MirahezeRelay>	 <afterglou> moment
[08:30:30] <MirahezeRelay>	 <afterglou> then it was actually wrong
[10:25:30] <MirahezeRelay>	 <jineverfade> :pupCoffeeMH:  coffee
[13:01:09] <MirahezeRelay>	 <janebuzjane, replying to afterglou> In your MediaWiki:Common.css, `.pi-title {text-align: center}`
[13:18:31] <MirahezeRelay>	 <liam076326> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1495413289230798968/IMG_20260409_064348_446.jpg?ex=69e627a7&is=69e4d627&hm=53f98e4ed8e58eac79c0de79d4cf48c892c1b7c42d2ae49c40a843a830f920d7&
[13:33:39] <MirahezeRelay>	 <ryan.1990.> [1/2] I changed some text on the main page and now the option to edit it has vanished...
[13:33:40] <MirahezeRelay>	 <ryan.1990.> [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1495417096060797059/Screenshot_20260419_143259_Chrome.jpg?ex=69e62b33&is=69e4d9b3&hm=4429ca7c2280bb9186d51715558cb1a9dcd514ddf2c378e72f0172e8c572ab3a&
[13:36:34] <MirahezeRelay>	 <janebuzjane> It's due to the skin you're using (or that Mobile Frontend) is using; you can add `?action=edit` to the end of the URL to get to the editing page
[13:52:48] <MirahezeRelay>	 <tostmaster, replying to janebuzjane> [1/2] Curious if you could explain--I have that section of code in a Template:Gameinfo/styles.css, a second CSS page for styling my infobox (on a new page Template:Gameinfo, calling the style.css with `<templatestyles src="Template:Gameinfo/styles.css" />`) If I remember correctly, this was because Mediawiki:Commons.css wasn't "sanitized" and couldn't be used wi
[13:52:48] <MirahezeRelay>	 <tostmaster, replying to janebuzjane> [2/2] th the above HTML. Did I add extra steps, or is this just a different appraoch altogether?
[13:54:00] <MirahezeRelay>	 <prabhasxd> I kind of dislike templatestyles because it hates when I use shit like & and other stuff
[14:06:10] <MirahezeRelay>	 <tostmaster, replying to prabhasxd> I could have sworn I had that extension turned off... which goes to show how little I understand what I'm actually doing. I hate to admit, but having chat gpt dumb everything down is extremely helpful
[14:23:37] <MirahezeRelay>	 <janebuzjane, replying to tostmaster> [1/4] TemplateStyles is an extension which can apply limited, sanitized CSS to template pages, and is invoked by the method you described. Some admins/editors like it because it means the CSS is only loaded when necessary (i.e. when template appears on a page) and it doesn't require advanced permissions to configure. The downside is that it is not as flexible as
[14:23:37] <MirahezeRelay>	 <janebuzjane, replying to tostmaster> [2/4]  adding things to Common.css because it only accepts sanitized input.
[14:23:37] <MirahezeRelay>	 <janebuzjane, replying to tostmaster> [3/4] To add styles to MediaWiki:Common.css, you wouldn't put in your `<templatestyles>` call HTML, but rather what is contained in the styles.css sheet (the raw CSS). That likely means you'll have to add some custom classes to your template, then tweak the CSS to apply only to those classes, which would result in the same effect as using TemplateStyles.
[14:23:38] <MirahezeRelay>	 <janebuzjane, replying to tostmaster> [4/4] Common.css is much more flexible and usable than TemplateStyles but both have their use cases
[14:25:20] <MirahezeRelay>	 <tostmaster, replying to janebuzjane> gotchya. thanks for the insight!
[14:54:19] <MirahezeRelay>	 <agent_dallas> does anyone have a css base for vector 2010, or at least a guide for it
[15:06:40] <MirahezeRelay>	 <doggowhoasked, replying to janebuzjane> Templatestyles eats shit when you try and check if an element has a class or ID so yeah its really a use case
[15:06:58] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kai84> templatestyles eats shit when you
[15:23:41] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac> I should probably publish the extension to TemplateStyles that we use on UT/DR
[15:25:02] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac> Which says fuck you no CSS sanitizing but you can only have TemplateStyles pages in the MW namespace
[15:48:46] <MirahezeRelay>	 <thewwrnerdguy, replying to kockaadmiralac> that sounds quite useful
[15:49:05] <MirahezeRelay>	 <thewwrnerdguy> ig it can also work with preexisting templatestyles since it's only affecting the mediawiki namespace
[15:52:31] <MirahezeRelay>	 <afterglou, replying to janebuzjane> this did not seem to work
[15:53:03] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac, replying to thewwrnerdguy> Yeah it's just a few hooks
[15:53:36] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac> It's just that it's currently under <https://github.com/utdrwiki/tweaks> which has a bunch more tweaks than just TemplateStyles so I'll have to extract it from there lol
[15:54:40] <MirahezeRelay>	 <ryan.1990.> How do we insert images into pages?
[15:56:01] <MirahezeRelay>	 <ccxtwf, replying to kockaadmiralac> Wouldn't this mean that the TS pages are aggressively cached tho? I actually liked that TS is less aggressively cached (and works for all purposes like inline styles).
[15:56:15] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac> No
[15:56:32] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac> There is no difference in caching
[15:57:09] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac> They aren't going through load.php, they are still processed the same way and output as a <style>
[15:57:43] <MirahezeRelay>	 <neshomeh, replying to ryan.1990.> There should be a button for that in Visual Editor. You have to have the image uploaded to your wiki. If you use Wikitext, the basic code is \[[File:Filename.abc]]
[16:00:43] <MirahezeRelay>	 <ryan.1990., replying to neshomeh> Ah thanks, I'm afraid I was editing on mobile but I think that doesn't have much features
[16:00:58] <MirahezeRelay>	 <tostmaster, replying to afterglou> Implementing what I used, you could make a new Template:Charater/styles.css, then paste`<templatestyles src="Template:Character/styles.css" />`in Template:Character
[16:01:08] <MirahezeRelay>	 <ryan.1990., replying to neshomeh> I see it now I'm on laptop!
[16:01:49] <MirahezeRelay>	 <neshomeh, replying to ryan.1990.> Oh jeez, yeah, I would advocate strongly for not editing on mobile. 😂
[16:01:57] <MirahezeRelay>	 <ryan.1990.> 🙁
[16:02:02] <MirahezeRelay>	 <ryan.1990.> I guess not aha
[16:02:34] <MirahezeRelay>	 <tostmaster, replying to afterglou> then paste `.pi-title {text-align: center}` in your new /styles.css
[16:02:44] <MirahezeRelay>	 <afterglou> mmm ok i will give that a try
[16:02:54] <MirahezeRelay>	 <neshomeh> I mean the way I feel about it is that my ability to type is a mere 20% on a mobile device, not to mention the limited screen space and things displaying differently.
[16:04:59] <MirahezeRelay>	 <neshomeh> Today, I wanted to ask the people smarter than me, why are the first three edit tags in this "Timeline" section being pushed down like this, but none of the other ones are? <https://wiki.plotprotectors.org/wiki/The_Aviator#Timeline>
[16:05:40] <MirahezeRelay>	 <tostmaster, replying to afterglou> make that, `.portable-infobox .pi-title {text-align: center}` in your new /styles.css
[16:07:03] <MirahezeRelay>	 <afterglou, replying to tostmaster> i suppose ill want to repeat this process with all the Template:REDACTED/styles.css of all the Templates I want to do it with?
[16:07:23] <MirahezeRelay>	 <afterglou> or can i universally apply via MediaWiki:commons.css
[16:09:04] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kai84, replying to neshomeh> i dont see anything wrong
[16:09:47] <MirahezeRelay>	 <tostmaster, replying to afterglou> As I understand it, styling in Mediawiki:Common.css affects all templates, and styling in Template:REDACTED/styles.css will just affect the singular template referencing that. Doesn't really answer your question but that's the extent of my knowledge.
[16:10:46] <MirahezeRelay>	 <tostmaster> also i don't think "/styles" is necessary, just how chat gpt suggested naming the template for styling
[16:11:10] <MirahezeRelay>	 <afterglou> oh its just like
[16:11:11] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kai84> lol
[16:11:15] <MirahezeRelay>	 <afterglou> Template:REDACTED.css?
[16:11:25] <MirahezeRelay>	 <tostmaster> im guessing that'd work
[16:12:16] <MirahezeRelay>	 <tostmaster> keep in mind I've only just figured out how to make infoboxes yesterday
[16:14:36] <MirahezeRelay>	 <neshomeh, replying to kai84> [1/2] Huh. I'm seeing this:
[16:14:36] <MirahezeRelay>	 <neshomeh, replying to kai84> [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1495457597841739816/image.png?ex=69e650eb&is=69e4ff6b&hm=bcf9096dc09e6b7aca59632a27122f78f26e31888144f69dc7062ed04fd2ccad&
[16:14:41] <MirahezeRelay>	 <thewwrnerdguy, replying to neshomeh> something to do with the thumb image being `float:right`
[16:14:59] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kai84, replying to neshomeh> oh i had to log in
[16:15:23] <MirahezeRelay>	 <thewwrnerdguy, replying to thewwrnerdguy> [1/2] looks like this on vector
[16:15:23] <MirahezeRelay>	 <thewwrnerdguy, replying to thewwrnerdguy> [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1495457792625086635/image.png?ex=69e6511a&is=69e4ff9a&hm=eabb7d3c7c65951c402d9e1943474a3ad57bcf21b57f303ab005a5b56f2b24cf&
[16:17:40] <MirahezeRelay>	 <neshomeh> [1/2] Hmmm, so in HasSomeColours I modified the [edit] tags to float right in order to then position them on the same level as the header text, as opposed to sitting below the header text. I figured there's some interaction with that and the thumb float tags, but disabling any of that in Inspect doesn't yield any results, and doesn't explain why it only affects those first three tags, eit
[16:17:40] <MirahezeRelay>	 <neshomeh> [2/2] her. 🤔
[16:19:01] <MirahezeRelay>	 <thewwrnerdguy, replying to neshomeh> it only affects the first 3 tags because they're having to be positioned below the first image which is `float:right`ed
[16:19:25] <MirahezeRelay>	 <neshomeh, replying to thewwrnerdguy> Why doesn't the second image do the same, though?
[16:19:51] <MirahezeRelay>	 <neshomeh> Or any other image on the page, for that matter?
[16:20:47] <MirahezeRelay>	 <thewwrnerdguy, replying to neshomeh> I have no idea
[16:22:18] <MirahezeRelay>	 <neshomeh> [1/2] Cool. 😂
[16:22:19] <MirahezeRelay>	 <neshomeh> [2/2] Well, I'd be open to another solution for repositioning the edit tags, if there is one...
[16:24:17] <MirahezeRelay>	 <thewwrnerdguy, replying to neshomeh> [1/2] is this fine
[16:24:17] <MirahezeRelay>	 <thewwrnerdguy, replying to neshomeh> [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1495460032211321032/image.png?ex=69e6532f&is=69e501af&hm=41cb4e7381cfc4833d435e03fd054e3d4049d68a6d16c89caa647b305456569d&
[16:24:39] <MirahezeRelay>	 <neshomeh> Yes, that's better even!
[16:25:26] <MirahezeRelay>	 <thewwrnerdguy> [1/15] ```css
[16:25:26] <MirahezeRelay>	 <thewwrnerdguy> [2/15] .mw-heading h1, .mw-heading h2, .mw-heading h3, .mw-heading h4, .mw-heading h5, .mw-heading h6 {
[16:25:27] <MirahezeRelay>	 <thewwrnerdguy> [3/15]     display: inline;
[16:25:27] <MirahezeRelay>	 <thewwrnerdguy> [4/15] }
[16:25:27] <MirahezeRelay>	 <thewwrnerdguy> [5/15] .mw-editsection, .mw-editsection-like {
[16:25:28] <MirahezeRelay>	 <thewwrnerdguy> [6/15]     margin-left: 1em;
[16:25:28] <MirahezeRelay>	 <thewwrnerdguy> [7/15] }
[16:25:28] <MirahezeRelay>	 <thewwrnerdguy> [8/15] .mw-body h2::after, .mw-body h3::after {
[16:25:28] <MirahezeRelay>	 <thewwrnerdguy> [9/15]     content: none;
[16:25:29] <MirahezeRelay>	 <thewwrnerdguy> [10/15] }
[16:25:29] <MirahezeRelay>	 <thewwrnerdguy> [11/15] .mw-heading2, .mw-heading3 {
[16:25:30] <MirahezeRelay>	 <thewwrnerdguy> [12/15]     margin-bottom: 0.6em;
[16:25:30] <MirahezeRelay>	 <thewwrnerdguy> [13/15]     border-bottom: 1px solid #ddd;
[16:25:31] <MirahezeRelay>	 <thewwrnerdguy> [14/15] }
[16:25:31] <MirahezeRelay>	 <thewwrnerdguy> [15/15] ``` and remove the rule starting at https://wiki.plotprotectors.org/wiki/MediaWiki:Common.css#L-76
[16:26:53] <MirahezeRelay>	 <neshomeh> Sweet, thank you!
[16:29:33] <MirahezeRelay>	 <neshomeh> (And now I wait...)
[16:48:21] <MirahezeRelay>	 <janebuzjane, replying to tostmaster> Creating the CSS page as a subpage of the template is recommended for clarity and future editors. A template named "Template:Redacted.css" should not be created, it should properly be named "Template:Redacted/styles.css" or "Template:Redacted/mycss.css" @afterglou
[16:49:53] <MirahezeRelay>	 <janebuzjane> I would suggest reading up on the actual documentation instead of relying on ChatGPT. The documentation has context, which ChatGPT does not > <https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:TemplateStyles>
[17:53:34] <MirahezeRelay>	 <tostmaster> Suppose I want to include an image using `[[File:Filename.png]]` but there is already an image saved with the desired name--it suggests my save will replace this prior file with the same name. Does this overwrite the file for everyone or just the wiki I'm editing?
[17:56:08] <MirahezeRelay>	 <afterglou, replying to janebuzjane> well thats a given tbh
[17:56:30] <MirahezeRelay>	 <afterglou> it is interesting that it doesnt matter as much as i thought it did
[17:56:39] <MirahezeRelay>	 <afterglou> but i would sitll use styles.css and stuff
[18:38:27] <MirahezeRelay>	 <prabhasxd, replying to iamfamiliar_> [1/2] @Discord Moderators can yall ban this person
[18:38:28] <MirahezeRelay>	 <prabhasxd, replying to iamfamiliar_> [2/2] they sent me screenshots of a fake tweet from mrbeast linking to some fake crypto website
[18:38:33] <MirahezeRelay>	 <prabhasxd> Funbt
[18:38:58] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pskyechology, replying to prabhasxd> can I get some proof
[18:39:05] <MirahezeRelay>	 <prabhasxd, replying to pskyechology> Sure
[18:39:47] <MirahezeRelay>	 <amelialoveheart> The forward doesn’t prove who sent the post
[18:39:57] <MirahezeRelay>	 <prabhasxd> Ah shit hold up
[18:40:04] <MirahezeRelay>	 <abaddriverlol> there is no way to prove that lol
[18:40:08] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kai84> they seem very much in control of their account
[18:40:11] <MirahezeRelay>	 <prabhasxd> Yeah I just realised hold ON
[18:40:24] <MirahezeRelay>	 <nibblypup, replying to prabhasxd> can u screenshot the dm with them and dm one of us 🙂 dont want to leave the scam pics here and the forwarded message doesnt show who its from
[18:40:47] <MirahezeRelay>	 <prabhasxd, replying to nibblypup> Are ur dms open :3
[18:41:02] <MirahezeRelay>	 <nibblypup> yes 🙂
[18:41:06] <MirahezeRelay>	 <prabhasxd> Aight
[18:41:18] <MirahezeRelay>	 <prabhasxd> Well it says they aren't
[18:41:18] <MirahezeRelay>	 <nibblypup> (just because i ignore most stuff from here doesnt mean i ignore everything 8))
[18:42:10] <MirahezeRelay>	 <prabhasxd, replying to nibblypup> It says I can't dm you
[18:42:14] <MirahezeRelay>	 <prabhasxd> I'll just send you a friend request
[18:42:18] <MirahezeRelay>	 <nibblypup> what the
[18:42:34] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac, replying to prabhasxd> Might be your own DM preferences
[18:42:41] <MirahezeRelay>	 <nibblypup> [1/2] discord hello??
[18:42:41] <MirahezeRelay>	 <nibblypup> [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1495494867055280369/image.png?ex=69e673a1&is=69e52221&hm=26af90344e7e9632a903fe87b67d30ae9f577f969cf3e04e476d64e330be43fd&
[18:42:43] <MirahezeRelay>	 <nibblypup> a:AFoxy_KEKW:
[18:42:51] <MirahezeRelay>	 <prabhasxd> [1/2] Oh mh god bro
[18:42:51] <MirahezeRelay>	 <prabhasxd> [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1495494907614330941/Screenshot_2026-04-20-00-12-32-96_572064f74bd5f9fa804b05334aa4f912.jpg?ex=69e673aa&is=69e5222a&hm=61ed8fa70215f4a556bf66374a02b0f24a712cc48526608e14995bdfd8e091b1&
[18:42:58] <MirahezeRelay>	 <prabhasxd> Can't friend people without this 🙏
[18:43:19] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac> Friend request more like friend sidequest
[18:43:41] <MirahezeRelay>	 <prabhasxd> 12 am gaming rah
[18:43:51] <MirahezeRelay>	 <unai, replying to nibblypup> ive seen this somewhere before
[18:44:17] <MirahezeRelay>	 <prabhasxd, replying to kockaadmiralac> Well a couple days ago I was able to dm someone who I wasn't friends with
[18:44:25] <MirahezeRelay>	 <prabhasxd> So idk 🤷‍♂️
[18:45:15] <MirahezeRelay>	 <prabhasxd, replying to kai84> 😭
[18:52:13] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pskyechology, replying to nibblypup> do you have all dm requests enabled
[18:53:33] <MirahezeRelay>	 <jjtech> I added a custom domain to my wiki (https://wiki.blueovallabs.com -> https://blueoval.mirahexze.org) and I'm getting an SSL error
[18:53:47] <MirahezeRelay>	 <jjtech> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1495497660600160336/Screenshot_2026-04-19_at_2.53.44_PM.png?ex=69e6763b&is=69e524bb&hm=348fc22ba8b52d158564153b59085807bcfed23c7022201d6f98cbfadc56abe7&
[18:54:05] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac> Well did you spell miraheze.org correctly
[18:54:17] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac> Because in your message you spelled it as mirahexze.org
[18:54:36] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1> That is not the issue
[18:54:42] <MirahezeRelay>	 <prabhasxd> https://tenor.com/view/minor-spelling-mistake-gif-21179057
[18:54:47] <MirahezeRelay>	 <prabhasxd> Oh nvm 😭
[18:54:53] <MirahezeRelay>	 <jjtech, replying to kockaadmiralac> [1/2] yes lol
[18:54:53] <MirahezeRelay>	 <jjtech, replying to kockaadmiralac> [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1495497930935894220/Screenshot_2026-04-19_at_2.54.44_PM.png?ex=69e6767b&is=69e524fb&hm=3455ca525bc079b902127fefc447878fb079669ee78d736986df2d262d3714bd&
[18:55:15] <MirahezeRelay>	 <prabhasxd> evil text
[18:55:20] <MirahezeRelay>	 <prabhasxd> What is that
[18:55:25] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1> Those who have no ability to help, please stop talking
[18:55:34] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1> You're literally only slowing the tech who is looking down
[18:56:03] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1> @jjtech it's still pending on the Cloudflare side for some reason
[18:56:07] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1> I'm going to kick it
[18:58:14] <MirahezeRelay>	 <jjtech> oh, now the SSL error went aways and I get a "This domain is pointed to Miraheze but no wiki is configured to serve it." page
[18:58:34] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1> I get that too
[18:59:16] <MirahezeRelay>	 <nibblypup, replying to pskyechology> Doesn't dm requests make it so that _some_ messages are filtered? I didn't think it prevented anyone from dming normally, and I've had plenty of dms from other people in this server :Holo_Think:
[19:02:39] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1> @pskyechology what am I missing from this custom domain request
[19:03:06] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pskyechology, replying to rhinosf1> was the managewiki step done
[19:03:13] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1, replying to pskyechology> Ye
[19:03:19] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1> I even tried removing and readding
[19:03:34] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac> <https://github.com/miraheze/ssl/commit/2d05d0be59880faff29c2324e41fdfaafb1c5c61>
[19:04:12] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac> Maybe give it a bit? The commit was 3 minutes ago
[19:04:27] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pskyechology, replying to rhinosf1> you get to practice what it feels like when your wiki request doesn't get a human review in 3 minutes
[19:04:29] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1, replying to kockaadmiralac> That is a regular job anyway
[19:04:41] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1> It doesn't get pushed to GitHub immediately
[19:05:04] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1> Also that change should be instant anyway
[19:05:13] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1, replying to pskyechology> The only thing I can think is ManageWiki cache
[19:06:04] <MirahezeRelay>	 <abaddriverlol, replying to rhinosf1> maybe try going to the wiki on the .miraheze.org domain a couple times to invalidate the cache
[19:06:18] <MirahezeRelay>	 <abaddriverlol> ideally try one server through the extension
[19:06:40] <MirahezeRelay>	 <abaddriverlol> the maint script won't fix the local caches
[19:07:38] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1> This isn't the first time we've had really misbehaving local caches
[19:07:50] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1, replying to abaddriverlol> Is there a good way to blow the local caches
[19:08:56] <MirahezeRelay>	 <abaddriverlol, replying to rhinosf1> send a lot of requests to the wiki
[19:09:10] <MirahezeRelay>	 <abaddriverlol> or use salt as I did a few days ago to remove the cache files
[19:09:15] <MirahezeRelay>	 <abaddriverlol> it's in SAL
[19:10:58] <MirahezeRelay>	 <jjtech> interestingly hitting "random page" redirects to https://wiki.blueovallabs.com//wiki/Some_Random_Page (with the domain misconfigured error)
[19:11:02] <MirahezeRelay>	 <jjtech> what's up with the extra /
[19:11:17] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pskyechology> who left the / in im going to shoot guns
[19:11:45] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1, replying to pskyechology> I already fixed that
[19:11:49] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1, replying to abaddriverlol> Nope
[19:11:56] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pskyechology> ah ok then i can blame the cache
[19:12:14] <MirahezeRelay>	 <abaddriverlol, replying to rhinosf1> did you remove both caches
[19:12:28] <MirahezeRelay>	 <abaddriverlol> wikiname.php and config-wikiname.php
[19:12:34] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1> No
[19:12:58] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1> Now yes
[19:13:12] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1> Still nothing @abaddriverlol
[19:13:22] <MirahezeRelay>	 <abaddriverlol> then it's not managewiki cache
[19:14:32] <MirahezeRelay>	 <jjtech> oh uh
[19:14:36] <MirahezeRelay>	 <jjtech> I hit purge cache on the main page
[19:14:38] <MirahezeRelay>	 <jjtech> https://wiki.blueovallabs.com//wiki/Main_Page works now
[19:14:42] <MirahezeRelay>	 <jjtech> removing the extra / breaks it
[19:16:14] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1> @abaddriverlol @pskyechology I am completely out of ideas
[19:16:17] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1> The cache file looks fine
[19:16:43] <MirahezeRelay>	 <abaddriverlol> I'm on my phone so I can't do much rn
[19:16:57] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1> So am I, just with the terminus app
[19:17:20] <MirahezeRelay>	 <abaddriverlol> I'm on a train with unstable internet because it's going 250kph
[19:17:46] <MirahezeRelay>	 <abaddriverlol> termius doesn't really work for me, I already tried earlier
[19:18:02] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1> An
[19:21:26] <MirahezeRelay>	 <abaddriverlol> can you try if it works on an mwtask server
[19:21:45] <MirahezeRelay>	 <abaddriverlol> I don't have the debug key rn and I can't view it because of phorge 2fa
[19:22:27] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kamidere> So is the creation of new pages something that is generally speaking hard on the farm and in polynomial time to the size of the wiki creating the pages?
[19:22:49] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac> No
[19:23:10] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac> Generally speaking
[19:24:35] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kamidere> Okay, good to know.
[19:24:54] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac> There are a lot of other specifics though I don't think anybody can give you the right answer unless the use case is very clear to them
[19:29:15] <MirahezeRelay>	 <xrogaan> Is there a blog post about why sementic wiki can not be enabled? I'm just curious about the reasons.
[19:30:12] <MirahezeRelay>	 <xrogaan> (maybe it's bad or something)
[19:32:53] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev, replying to xrogaan> No blog post but I can give a cursory explanation
[19:34:16] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev> Semantic MediaWiki is a massively complex piece of code and there is no one working on it who fully understands it, and it’s maintained is frankly in question, things around it break very easily and with some upcoming MediaWiki core changes, it’s extremely possible the extension may break entirely in the near future
[19:34:18] <MirahezeRelay>	 <posix_memalign, replying to xrogaan> [1/2] https://meta.weirdgloop.org/w/Extension:Bucket?oldid=836#Rationale
[19:34:18] <MirahezeRelay>	 <posix_memalign, replying to xrogaan> [2/2] https://www.semantic-mediawiki.org/w/images/8/8e/Semantic_MediaWiki_-_Maintenance_Risks_and_Future_Outlook.pdf
[19:34:28] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev> That helps
[19:35:29] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pskyechology, replying to rhinosf1> mw183's cache still has the custom domain with a slash so
[19:35:34] <MirahezeRelay>	 <xrogaan> 355k lines of code, of PHP. No wonder nobody wants to maintain it 😛
[19:35:58] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac> Never saw that presentation lol mwjames the goat
[19:36:06] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1, replying to pskyechology> How the fuck
[19:36:11] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1> Can you please burn it with fire
[19:36:12] <MirahezeRelay>	 <jjtech, replying to jjtech> seems like whatever cache expired, https://wiki.blueovallabs.com/wiki/Main_Page works now, thanks so much for the help!
[19:36:35] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pskyechology, replying to rhinosf1> i dont have salt access to clear the caches on all mw* at once
[19:37:38] <MirahezeRelay>	 <abaddriverlol, replying to rhinosf1> what's the command you ran to delete the cache files
[19:38:03] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pskyechology, replying to abaddriverlol> `ManageWiki:ResetWikiCaches`
[19:38:13] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1, replying to abaddriverlol> Same from your SAL entry, both of them like 3 times
[19:38:16] <MirahezeRelay>	 <abaddriverlol, replying to pskyechology> no I meant the salt one that isn't logged
[19:38:28] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pskyechology> rhinos and not logging to sal???
[19:38:29] <MirahezeRelay>	 <abaddriverlol, replying to rhinosf1> oh
[19:38:42] <MirahezeRelay>	 <abaddriverlol> well it worked for me back then
[19:38:44] <MirahezeRelay>	 <xrogaan, replying to posix_memalign> Yeah, ok, majority of DB writes when nothing changes is insane.
[19:38:52] <MirahezeRelay>	 <abaddriverlol> maybe it somehow got repopulated with stale data
[19:39:58] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pskyechology> isnt it something stupid like ssl script runs > puppet pulls it > cache magic
[19:40:23] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pskyechology> would it be funny if puppet is outdated
[19:40:54] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pskyechology> (which is also why I apply "waiting" liberally when this happens)
[19:41:05] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pskyechology> anyway it seems to be fine now
[19:41:08] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1, replying to pskyechology> No
[19:41:12] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1> Puppet isn't involved
[19:48:36] <MirahezeRelay>	 <posix_memalign, replying to posix_memalign> [1/2] The most immediate risk is not being compatible with Parsoid (default in 1.47 if things work well) due to using a hook only available to the legacy parser. SMW got plenty of warnings about it but AFAIK nothing is done yet.
[19:48:36] <MirahezeRelay>	 <posix_memalign, replying to posix_memalign> [2/2] Besides that, SMW often leaves wikis in an inaccessible state due to random server-side errors, which require a tech to manually debug and recover. I don't know why that is because I'm usually not the person fixing it.
[19:50:14] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac> Which hook
[19:50:52] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac> Oh nvm yeah Parsoid did remove a lot of hooks
[19:52:55] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac, replying to kockaadmiralac> Oh yeah
[19:57:19] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac> [1/2] But I think mwjames coming in 2013, owning like 40000 lines of code and then completely disappearing like 5 years ago is hilarious
[19:57:19] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac> [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1495513648062529676/image.png?ex=69e6851e&is=69e5339e&hm=fdc27b3d174a26af2f76ae93b51f31c0cb4843c5423ad5531ec5759ff3f092b0&
[19:57:32] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pskyechology> "can you hold this for a sec"
[20:13:49] <MirahezeRelay>	 <posix_memalign, replying to kockaadmiralac> I didn't realize that I heard about this hook from you lmao
[20:25:49] <MirahezeRelay>	 <zipppee, replying to posix_memalign> SMW is just something I choose not to deal with
[20:25:53] <MirahezeRelay>	 <zipppee> I will tell people they can have cargo and be happy with it
[20:26:01] <MirahezeRelay>	 <zipppee> I need to look at bucket at some point
[20:28:54] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac> I didn't want to deal with Cargo either after seeing some bad queries take down wiki.gg clusters before
[20:29:11] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac> Bucket or bust
[21:14:21] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kamidere, replying to pixldev> I have an interest in it, does anyone really want to run it?
[21:18:04] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev, replying to kamidere> Semantic?
[21:22:22] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kamidere, replying to pixldev> Semantic
[21:22:47] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kamidere> I haven’t used the software but I’m interested in learning about it.
[21:37:19] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac> There's a wiki full of documentation about it <https://www.semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Semantic_MediaWiki>
[21:37:56] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac> I don't know which wiki host would run it for you though, probably paid ones
[21:38:56] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pskyechology> semantic is so good the corporate eggheads are making a new project, this time with AI
[21:40:24] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kai84, replying to pskyechology> is this real
[21:41:12] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac> I always thought corporate MediaWiki is a crazy concept
[21:41:49] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac> Like surely they could've went with any other CMS
[21:43:08] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pskyechology, replying to kockaadmiralac> don't say that you're gonna hurt the business model of the two companies behind the development of newmantic
[21:44:04] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pskyechology> honestly i forgot what the new project is named
[21:44:11] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pskyechology> they presented it at mudcon
[21:44:14] <MirahezeRelay>	 <zipppee, replying to pskyechology> I hear semantic
[21:44:15] <MirahezeRelay>	 <zipppee> I'm not touching it
[21:44:34] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pskyechology> at least they were smart enough to start over
[21:44:54] <MirahezeRelay>	 <zipppee> lowkey just use notion
[21:45:10] <MirahezeRelay>	 <zipppee> or equivalent
[21:45:12] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pskyechology> nooo but my wiki,,,,
[21:45:13] <MirahezeRelay>	 <zipppee> anytype is really cool
[21:45:24] <MirahezeRelay>	 <zipppee> blocknote is also fun but it's not batteries included
[21:51:08] <MirahezeRelay>	 <posix_memalign, replying to kockaadmiralac> [1/2] Both bwiki and huijiwiki provide SMW, but they operate in China with Chinese being the only supported language.
[21:51:08] <MirahezeRelay>	 <posix_memalign, replying to kockaadmiralac> [2/2] They are also stuck on old MediaWiki versions (1.37 and 1.38).
[21:52:44] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pskyechology> security starting to feel like a shits and giggles type deal
[21:54:46] <MirahezeRelay>	 <posix_memalign, replying to posix_memalign> [1/2] They are also self-contained communities so you won't be hearing much from them. Sizau once forked the Chinese Stardew Valley to bwiki so he might know more about how they are.
[21:54:46] <MirahezeRelay>	 <posix_memalign, replying to posix_memalign> [2/2] I've been on a bwiki wiki before and it has some very silly restrictions such as contacting tech (consisting somewhere between 1 to 2 people) to upload audio. The only nice thing is that it doesn't serve any ads, but it went through some layoffs when bilibili was trying to cut back costs.
[21:54:56] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kamidere, replying to pskyechology> Are you talking about abstract wikipedia?
[21:57:10] <MirahezeRelay>	 <posix_memalign, replying to pskyechology> All wikis on bwiki have Extension:Moderation on and it is non-negotiable for censorship reasons. IIRC wiki bureaucrats need to verify their Chinese ID to create a wiki, likely because they want to have someone held liable if anything goes South. So XSS isn't much of a concern, though RCE might still be possible.
[22:02:12] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pskyechology> so you're telling me i can get government IDs as well? awesome
[22:03:36] <MirahezeRelay>	 <posix_memalign, replying to posix_memalign> The official Stardew Valley Wiki uses 1.35 while bwiki 1.37. Neither is doing well in being up to date. Interesting [annoucement](https://zh.stardewvalleywiki.com/Stardew_Valley_Wiki:%E7%AE%A1%E7%90%86%E5%91%98%E5%B8%83%E5%91%8A%E6%9D%BF) they made about merging the forks if anyone is interested in reading some Chinese.
[22:54:19] <MirahezeRelay>	 <m6ga> [1/2] wha
[22:54:19] <MirahezeRelay>	 <m6ga> [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1495558191306506260/image.png?ex=69e6ae9a&is=69e55d1a&hm=e7697c262752f84b64c70fc49e3adbe6f009f3608255d73fdb26ca560a67c0ec&
[22:54:36] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kai84, replying to m6ga> uh oh
[22:55:01] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kai84> what u do this time ozo
[22:56:05] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kai84> Skye (Miraheze)
[22:56:14] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pskyechology, replying to m6ga> A notice was left on the sole bureaucrat's talk page. Follow the instructions there.
[22:57:12] <MirahezeRelay>	 <m6ga, replying to kai84> robeatsdev thinks robeats can get taken down over the mentions of removed content on the wiki (it can't)
[22:57:33] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kai84, replying to m6ga> so they DMCA'd ur entire wiki
[22:58:23] <MirahezeRelay>	 <m6ga> yep
[22:58:45] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kai84> that is really something
[22:58:52] <MirahezeRelay>	 <m6ga> welp I am not a lawyer so I guess I will need to resort to self host if miraheze wont be able to restore the wiki
[22:58:58] <MirahezeRelay>	 <zipppee, replying to kai84> Skye (Miraheze) brings back fun times on ibw
[22:59:15] <MirahezeRelay>	 <zipppee> these days I see more Skye (Miraheze) than NotAracham (Miraheze) :c
[22:59:18] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kai84, replying to m6ga> theres other hosts
[22:59:46] <MirahezeRelay>	 <zipppee> I mean
[22:59:51] <MirahezeRelay>	 <zipppee> hosting it elsewhere will just have the DMCA repeated
[23:00:09] <MirahezeRelay>	 <zipppee> mira t&s are competent enough that I trust that it's probably a valid DMCA
[23:00:26] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kai84, replying to zipppee> ozo will slide u 5 bucks to ignore it
[23:00:47] <MirahezeRelay>	 <zipppee, replying to kai84> hmm no
[23:00:54] <MirahezeRelay>	 <zipppee> I'm good
[23:01:18] <MirahezeRelay>	 <zipppee> maybe it could go onto the wd greens because it'll get taken down one way or another
[23:01:52] <MirahezeRelay>	 <posix_memalign, replying to m6ga> IIRC the devs do not like the fork? In that case it'll be very difficult to continue the wiki because they can subject you to much stricter standards when it comes to using the game's assets.
[23:02:27] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pskyechology> the only realistic recourse is to face the risk of legal action
[23:02:40] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kai84> take it to court ozo! what do you have to lose!
[23:02:42] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kai84> im joking
[23:03:09] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kai84> its very saddening a dev doesnt like their games wiki being moved off fandom
[23:03:28] <MirahezeRelay>	 <zipppee> roblox is an ick anyway for me
[23:03:35] <MirahezeRelay>	 <zipppee> the t&s on roblox is so poor
[23:03:53] <MirahezeRelay>	 <zipppee> mind you stopping fandom forks that aggressively is so unneeded
[23:05:01] <MirahezeRelay>	 <zipppee> you could possibly get away with some of the usage under fair use but then you're getting into a bit of a pain that might not be worth dealing with
[23:06:30] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kai84, replying to zipppee> i read the devs message and it seems to be a personal matter
[23:06:36] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kai84> nothing to do with fandom or miraheze
[23:06:48] <MirahezeRelay>	 <zipppee, replying to kai84> abuse of the dmca system pisses me off
[23:06:54] <MirahezeRelay>	 <m6ga, replying to pskyechology> It might be an ass move, but myself being in Russia, I doubt he can take legal actions against me in the near future, unless I don't know something, and I don't know a lot, I have no degree in law ⚰️
[23:07:05] <MirahezeRelay>	 <zipppee, replying to m6ga> no but he could take legal action against miraheze
[23:07:08] <MirahezeRelay>	 <zipppee> which is worse
[23:07:11] <MirahezeRelay>	 <zipppee> well
[23:07:13] <MirahezeRelay>	 <m6ga> I am talking about self hosting
[23:07:15] <MirahezeRelay>	 <zipppee> not for you potentially but
[23:07:22] <MirahezeRelay>	 <zipppee> no it would pass back onto the host
[23:07:28] <MirahezeRelay>	 <zipppee> they would just take it down
[23:07:39] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pskyechology> ball is not in our court if we get a counter-notice and the original complainant doesn't sue
[23:07:53] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kai84, replying to m6ga> i think thats a can of worms that should stay closed
[23:07:56] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kai84> robeats is an old game
[23:08:01] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kai84> the devs gotta be at least 35
[23:08:05] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kai84> he will come for you
[23:08:27] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pskyechology> save your mental wellbeing and work on non-roblox wikis fr
[23:08:33] <MirahezeRelay>	 <zipppee, replying to kai84> not if the dev started when he was like 10
[23:08:39] <MirahezeRelay>	 <zipppee, replying to pskyechology> work on ibw
[23:08:49] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kai84, replying to pskyechology> exactly !!
[23:08:52] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pskyechology, replying to zipppee> that's like roblox on crack
[23:08:59] <MirahezeRelay>	 <zipppee, replying to pskyechology> I don't know what you mean
[23:09:09] <MirahezeRelay>	 <zipppee> not like I haven't had 14 reports in 6 days to do with underage blocks
[23:09:33] <MirahezeRelay>	 <zipppee> the entire WO team are too interested in it that they all joined the discord and started an offtopic channel with their admins
[23:09:36] <MirahezeRelay>	 <zipppee> they have too much free time
[23:09:38] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pskyechology> what I mean is that the intersecting area between brainrot enjoyers and roblox players is a circle because it is 1:1
[23:09:56] <MirahezeRelay>	 <zipppee> is it like a is a subset of b or a = b
[23:10:04] <MirahezeRelay>	 <zipppee> or could it be a venn diagram
[23:10:04] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kai84> a = b
[23:10:07] <MirahezeRelay>	 <zipppee> 😭
[23:10:25] <MirahezeRelay>	 <zipppee> so they're not mutually exclusive
[23:10:35] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kai84> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1495562284326457374/image.png?ex=69e6b26a&is=69e560ea&hm=66e2d31a595e30daa8f77a5311ba9488067588ddb712fe821a17901f66c771ad&
[23:10:38] <MirahezeRelay>	 <zipppee> wait does that mean I like brainrot if I play fashion famous
[23:10:47] <MirahezeRelay>	 <zipppee> let's be honest it's my favourite game
[23:10:57] <MirahezeRelay>	 <zipppee> adopt me too
[23:11:31] <MirahezeRelay>	 <zipppee> fuck I need to wake up really early and it's midnight
[23:11:33] <MirahezeRelay>	 <zipppee> I'm going to sleep
[23:11:56] <MirahezeRelay>	 <zipppee> the intersecting area between wiki editors and insomniacs is very large
[23:15:45] <MirahezeRelay>	 <akarimiracle_04> hiya! i still don’t have autoconfirmed/page-making rights on greatcharacters wiki 😅
[23:15:47] <MirahezeRelay>	 <akarimiracle_04> /nf.
[23:16:34] <MirahezeRelay>	 <zipppee> probably best to ask local administration
[23:18:07] <MirahezeRelay>	 <akarimiracle_04> a lot of em ain’t active
[23:18:12] <MirahezeRelay>	 <akarimiracle_04> last time i checked at least
[23:18:32] <MirahezeRelay>	 <akarimiracle_04> https://greatcharacters.miraheze.org/wiki/Special:ListUsers?username=&group=sysop&wpsubmit=&wpFormIdentifier=mw-listusers-form&limit=50
[23:18:41] <MirahezeRelay>	 <posix_memalign, replying to m6ga> [1/2] There is the option to host it on your PC if you have it powered on 24/7 and then use Cloudflare as a free reverse proxy.
[23:18:41] <MirahezeRelay>	 <posix_memalign, replying to m6ga> [2/2] Cloudflare tends to be more lenient on DMCAs from my search a while back: they usually forward them instead of taking your site offline.
[23:19:50] <MirahezeRelay>	 <zipppee> cloudflare don't give a shit
[23:20:06] <MirahezeRelay>	 <zipppee> they usually just send it to the website operator or the hosting provider
[23:20:14] <MirahezeRelay>	 <zipppee> I've never had an instance of them taking someone down
[23:21:26] <MirahezeRelay>	 <posix_memalign, replying to posix_memalign> Though as the others said you are fighting an uphill battle. It would make your life a lot easier if you work on another wiki. Of course, if you are thinking of self-hosting MediaWiki for fun then go for it. It's a lot of work to figure things out, though.
[23:21:39] <MirahezeRelay>	 <akarimiracle_04, replying to akarimiracle_04> i’ll just ask crazyspruiker or smt
[23:21:43] <MirahezeRelay>	 <akarimiracle_04> (sorry for hijacking)
[23:21:48] <MirahezeRelay>	 <zipppee, replying to posix_memalign> not really for a single instance, it's pretty plug and play these days
[23:21:58] <MirahezeRelay>	 <zipppee> you can run it off sqlite and it's very easy with update.php
[23:23:36] <MirahezeRelay>	 <posix_memalign, replying to akarimiracle_04> You will become autoconfirmed once you are registered for a certain number of days + have made enough edits. Besides asking on an active admin's talk page, you can also just keep editing and wait. Store your draft locally and once you're autoconfirmed publish it.
[23:23:55] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kai84> i managed to local host an instance in about 10 minutes with whatever docker is, and ive really no experience with that stuff
[23:24:19] <MirahezeRelay>	 <zipppee> I mean docker is possible but
[23:24:22] <MirahezeRelay>	 <zipppee> I wouldn't reccomend
[23:24:32] <MirahezeRelay>	 <zipppee> I hate containerising stuff
[23:24:54] <MirahezeRelay>	 <zipppee> I've looked at k8s but even getting a control plane running is beyond me when I don't have proper internal networking lol
[23:25:09] <MirahezeRelay>	 <zipppee> tailscale is not a feasible way to run anything that needs complex networking
[23:25:20] <MirahezeRelay>	 <zipppee> well it kinda is but
[23:25:27] <MirahezeRelay>	 <zipppee> easier to just network it the proper way
[23:26:50] <MirahezeRelay>	 <jjtech, replying to zipppee> k8s is a mess no matter what, but you can run things in Docker pretty easily
[23:27:01] <MirahezeRelay>	 <jjtech> Docker compose for moderately complex things
[23:27:27] <MirahezeRelay>	 <zipppee> k8s isn't a mess it just requires time I don't want to spend on it
[23:27:40] <MirahezeRelay>	 <zipppee> I'd love to go the wmf way of running mediawiki on k8s because of the scaling benefits but
[23:27:58] <MirahezeRelay>	 <jjtech> I mean, the amount of problems we’ve encountered at work, where we have multiple people on infra dedicated to it, I don’t want it in my life 😛
[23:28:02] <MirahezeRelay>	 <zipppee> a) I don't serve traffic at the scale that autoscaling is needed and b) I don't have the resources to fuck around with it
[23:28:22] <MirahezeRelay>	 <zipppee> so long as I'm the sole person who does stuff at WO anything fun like k8s is never happening
[23:28:27] <MirahezeRelay>	 <zipppee> that shit takes an entire army to learn
[23:28:34] <MirahezeRelay>	 <zipppee> it's cool on paper but
[23:28:49] <MirahezeRelay>	 <zipppee> execution is more complex than other systems
[23:29:14] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kai84> [1/2] while knowledge people are here, why are these bots making accounts
[23:29:14] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kai84> [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1495566977392050367/IMG_0799.png?ex=69e6b6c9&is=69e56549&hm=8ffe3b0c2ee5b9d9bac932acd852e304881636477fd2a24bd11e08d0fc4d125f&
[23:29:33] <MirahezeRelay>	 <zipppee> just a normal bot thing
[23:29:43] <MirahezeRelay>	 <zipppee> not much that can be done
[23:29:57] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kai84, replying to zipppee> do u know their purpose?
[23:29:59] <MirahezeRelay>	 <zipppee> [1/2] some of these are bots
[23:30:00] <MirahezeRelay>	 <zipppee> [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1495567168975405136/image.png?ex=69e6b6f7&is=69e56577&hm=9988bc67762a204968525cbe84ffd8fa38bba31b096d393a0c8dd1edf2618a3e&
[23:30:01] <MirahezeRelay>	 <zipppee> some are ibw editors
[23:30:07] <MirahezeRelay>	 <zipppee> mostly bots
[23:30:07] <MirahezeRelay>	 <zipppee> they just spam links
[23:30:33] <MirahezeRelay>	 <zipppee> usually easy to catch by looking for line break spam and adding links in first edit
[23:30:52] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kai84, replying to zipppee> could u send the link to that abuse filter pls?
[23:31:03] <MirahezeRelay>	 <posix_memalign, replying to zipppee> [1/3] Most of the fun comes from figuring out the correct extensions/settings to make the wiki feel the same. MH exposes some of the backend which is a good start. I remember spending about a week of on and off work to reproduce Moegirlpedia's setup.
[23:31:03] <MirahezeRelay>	 <posix_memalign, replying to zipppee> [2/3] And then there's stuff like running the job queue, CirrusSearch, automated backups, and MW updates which can be quite painful but necessary to have a reliable wiki.
[23:31:03] <MirahezeRelay>	 <posix_memalign, replying to zipppee> [3/3] And there's the scraper bots that hit whenever the wiki becomes somewhat popular.
[23:31:21] <MirahezeRelay>	 <zipppee, replying to kai84> [1/6] it's private, but the code is ```action == "edit"
[23:31:21] <MirahezeRelay>	 <zipppee, replying to kai84> [2/6] & global_user_editcount < 2
[23:31:21] <MirahezeRelay>	 <zipppee, replying to kai84> [3/6] & wiki_name != "aeronauticawiki"
[23:31:22] <MirahezeRelay>	 <zipppee, replying to kai84> [4/6] & added_lines irlike "https?:\/\/(?!(([a-z0-9]+\.)?archive\.org|([a-z0-9+]\.)?fandom\.com|([a-z0-9+]\.)?miraheze\.org|([a-z0-9]+\.)?wikimedia\.org|([a-z0-9]+\.)?wikioasis\.org|([a-z0-9]+\.)?wikipedia\.org|youtu\.be|([a-z0-9]+\.)?youtube\.com))"
[23:31:22] <MirahezeRelay>	 <zipppee, replying to kai84> [5/6] & !("autopatrol" in user_rights)
[23:31:22] <MirahezeRelay>	 <zipppee, replying to kai84> [6/6] ```
[23:31:32] <MirahezeRelay>	 <zipppee> you can remove the wikiname bit
[23:31:52] <MirahezeRelay>	 <zipppee, replying to posix_memalign> you don't need cirrussearch for a wiki and job queue can be done pretty easily at small scale
[23:32:36] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kai84, replying to zipppee> thank you, this should prevent the bots that make usertalks with a link?
[23:32:54] <MirahezeRelay>	 <zipppee> should do
[23:33:23] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kai84> okay thank you that is a lot of help
[23:33:47] <MirahezeRelay>	 <posix_memalign, replying to zipppee> I mirrored a wiki of 100k content pages which might've made a difference lol.
[23:34:18] <MirahezeRelay>	 <zipppee, replying to posix_memalign> yeah but jobs only happen if it's actively being edited
[23:34:42] <MirahezeRelay>	 <zipppee> [1/2] gulp
[23:34:42] <MirahezeRelay>	 <zipppee> [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1495568355409788928/image.png?ex=69e6b812&is=69e56692&hm=61c4c711ef4808be79394bead5a7bb011a22350f333a05b0164ff321c649b29d&
[23:35:09] <MirahezeRelay>	 <zipppee> anyway over a given 24h period WO only sees about 150k jobs max so I think for a single small wiki it wouldn't be that bad
[23:35:25] <MirahezeRelay>	 <zipppee> ok 150k jobs was a lie
[23:35:27] <MirahezeRelay>	 <zipppee> I didn't zoom out
[23:35:33] <MirahezeRelay>	 <zipppee> less than 1M in a 24h period
[23:36:26] <MirahezeRelay>	 <posix_memalign, replying to zipppee> [1/2] Without something to clear the job queue it'll essentially be stuck processing 100k pages. And yeah it's being edited which also contributes to the problem.
[23:36:26] <MirahezeRelay>	 <posix_memalign, replying to zipppee> [2/2] I had to make parser cache expiry extremely long so that it can stop reindexing pages. Might have been a skill issue though.
[23:36:26] <MirahezeRelay>	 <zipppee> it's usually less than 250k but anywhere between 100k to 1M depending on what's going on
[23:36:50] <MirahezeRelay>	 <zipppee, replying to posix_memalign> I have a hacky thing that reads the job tables in a big view and then as jobs are detected will just process them
[23:36:52] <MirahezeRelay>	 <zipppee> it's not perfect but
[23:37:04] <MirahezeRelay>	 <zipppee> kafka is something I don't want to properly do without reimplementing it myself and I've been lazy
[23:39:17] <MirahezeRelay>	 <posix_memalign> [1/2] I wonder how WO's CF dashboard looks like. For MH it's 200M-300M requests with 5M-8M unique visitors per day. On this small wiki it's around 3M-5M requests per day (unless there's a bot spike like this one) with 200k-400k visitors.
[23:39:17] <MirahezeRelay>	 <posix_memalign> [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1495569506112897134/image.png?ex=69e6b924&is=69e567a4&hm=ec48a3c819b5a9a3bb62eeea1de8902f89cacb78f72e96dc046ebb3a4a18343b&
[23:39:32] <MirahezeRelay>	 <yogurtsf> What is the average number of pages?
[23:40:14] <MirahezeRelay>	 <zipppee, replying to posix_memalign> [1/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1495569745091625011/image.png?ex=69e6b95d&is=69e567dd&hm=299f038cf28dab64ea7cb6de70e1ba0a2d61330563bb7ffcf16a128688b161e6&
[23:40:14] <MirahezeRelay>	 <zipppee, replying to posix_memalign> [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1495569745368584383/image.png?ex=69e6b95d&is=69e567dd&hm=4ba5d3e4338461f34d9d7b05f8654605b584be1335a4ba85efb11633d04a5a97&
[23:40:16] <MirahezeRelay>	 <zipppee> most stuff is cached these days
[23:40:28] <MirahezeRelay>	 <zipppee> between cloudflare and varnish appservers only have to handle like 4rps each
[23:40:49] <MirahezeRelay>	 <zipppee> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1495569889765621800/image.png?ex=69e6b980&is=69e56800&hm=1f9c4e4d5efbb1d454c5ade7acb062a884fa17cbe10bb01a956627cc95ba5997&
[23:41:22] <MirahezeRelay>	 <zipppee> although varnish only has like a 10% hit rate so
[23:41:41] <MirahezeRelay>	 <zipppee> that's probably because the cache is limited to 16G and it gets purged a lot for uh reasons
[23:41:47] <MirahezeRelay>	 <zipppee> I restart varnish to apply config changes bc icba
[23:41:56] <MirahezeRelay>	 <zipppee> I usually shove the change to puppet and let it apply it its way
[23:42:21] <MirahezeRelay>	 <zipppee> I've already decided the puppet repo is completely fucked and I'm going to rewrite it when everything else gets rewritten but yeah
[23:48:07] <MirahezeRelay>	 <mu_muuuu.> hi
[23:50:08] <MirahezeRelay>	 <posix_memalign, replying to zipppee> I didn't notice that WO is so lean. I ran moegirl.uk off of a used Ryzen 9 3950x which is usually at less than 20% CPU utilization. I probably haven't done anything to it in the past 2 years and just let it limp along, though.