[00:41:15] [1/2] Visual mock-up. Very very rough lol. [00:41:15] [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1499208978884984882/image.png?ex=69f3f6aa&is=69f2a52a&hm=5e20cc3ae922f9f5e11fb37d74014dd51564f47c70e3265ddb5f5df561f75fea& [00:51:11] Hmmm [02:12:01] <_chrs_, replying to _chrs_> so we have one that actually works now [02:13:57] <_chrs_> now miraheze using a 300px default thumbnail size preference causes size mismatch, but other than that (and the massive number of dependencies you'll need to import) it works! [07:27:59] can anyone recommend me a general tutorial on how to get my wiki up to a decent standard, its for a roblox game and im basing it off of the abyss and prospecting wiki [08:16:56] Bare minimum: Make sure readers can search all the contents they need aka you need to properly fill any pages readers tend to search. Bare minimum support for mobile phones if the readers are mostly phone users, by using a mobile-compatible skin [08:17:32] Learning to use infobox and gallery can help a lot in most wikis. [09:18:21] any youtube videos i can watch to learn more? [09:28:10] you should probably learn how to use CSS/HTML if you wanna make your page look nicer [09:29:12] i have a basic understanding [09:30:02] There's https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3e-cpL7ofc if you really want to be good at CSS. [09:30:15] thats the exact video i watched :p [09:30:24] im wondering how i get good at wiki creation [09:32:36] just asking, is vue supported with miraheze? [09:34:54] [1/2] We have as much Vue support as MediaWiki 1.45: [09:34:54] [2/2] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Vue.js [09:56:32] TIL that Parsoid actually emits HTML comments into the DOM [09:56:42] This is certainly not going to create problems ever [09:57:52] very nice [09:59:28] How goes Miraheze? [10:25:44] in the mira, straight up hezeing it [10:27:50] heze heze sahur [11:22:01] Likely you want to copy some ideas from successful wikis [11:23:25] The very hard thing you are likely to encounter when creating a wiki page these days was "how to write a good article" and it usually requires literacy skill [11:25:36] Copy pasting information is easy but turn it to readable literature is kinda hard [11:46:27] Yeah, when I managed to get friends to edit, they lacked writing skills a:waaa: [12:13:51] [1/2] Hey, so I've just started up working on my first wiki for a project I am working on, and I wanted to ask [12:13:51] [2/2] Vector 2022 is currently my favourite starting point to work with, but I'm aware that customizing Vector 2022 could run into issues later down the track. What is my best option? Should I customize old Vector to my liking, and can I use my custom vector across my entire profile once I have put it all together? [12:19:44] [1/2] If your wiki doesn't have much mobile users, using old Vector is fine. Otherwise stick with Vector 2022, Citizen or mobile compatible skins. [12:19:45] [2/2] You could run a wiki with entire stock skin and user won't care about the look of the wiki. [12:21:09] ^forgot that dark mode is very important to user experience, no one want to blast themselves with bright screen. [12:23:58] [1/2] Not me immediately turning dark mode on in Vector 2022 🥲 [12:23:58] [2/2] But ok, so adding custom backgrounds later down the line won't be an issue with Vector 2022 or MinervaNeue? [12:24:11] Cause those are my two favourites so far [12:24:14] (the opposite is also true, dark mode can cause migraines on some people) [12:24:53] yes [12:24:55] My screens are already far too bright for light mode lol [12:25:16] Ok cool, I'll go with one of those then. Thanks a bunch! [13:23:40] [1/2] current vector has a lot of bells and whistles you can't really find or reproduce in old vector so realistically as long as you are following changes to new vector/around updates so you are not surprised often, it is a viable thing to run with. I'd consider customizing it and having those changes messed with to be more of an annoyance than a roadblock. A backgroun [13:23:40] [2/2] d shouldn't be hit too hard. Note that the handling for background differs between old vector and new vector if you're trying to design for both and that's also where some messiness is present [13:23:55] is there data on this you can reference, I'm curious [13:24:00] never heard of this [13:33:16] ⁉️ [13:35:40] I’ve heard a few anecdotes of people getting really bad headaches from dark modes on sites for what it’s worth [13:37:44] I've gotten headaches from dark mode before, after a few minutes of reading text I start seeing lines parallel to the text, and if I keep on after that I get a decent headache [13:37:52] I wonder if that's something that can be designed around with tones or color selections [13:38:25] I've noticed not using pure black and more of a gray helps me [13:39:54] I do favor greyishes over straight black [13:40:01] and also not straight ffffff white [13:40:11] on text [13:40:42] certain harsh contrast darks I do corroborate can be tough to look at [13:41:05] then do it in times new roman and its gibberish to me [13:42:24] [1/4] Haven’t experienced it myself, but my mom does. She’s very susceptible to them, so she can quickly tell me if she can stand the contrast or not. I’m on phone so I’ll try to find better sources later but dark mode can cause hallation, depending on the contrast (#FFF on #000 being the worst offender probably). Depends on the environment too, hence why giving the user [13:42:24] [2/4] the ability to use their preferred setting is best [13:42:24] [3/4] https://weareaffective.com/learning-centre/can-dark-mode-actually-help-with-app-accessibility [13:42:24] [4/4] https://drbladh.com/does-dark-mode-help-with-eye-strain/ [13:42:37] I prefer to stick with dark blue/green or grey [13:43:23] Also, personally I got a large window next to me so while I don’t suffer headaches, light mode is easier for me to read [13:44:21] Discord is the only app I use on dark mode all the time [13:45:41] Ok, good to note. Thanks for all the extra info! For now, a background will probably be all I really need anyway to avoid too much messing around lol [14:02:48] Yeah I just tried the light mode today and this is a bit disorienting [14:03:01] From reports I hear it was from from the dark dark blue an old wiki I edited on used [14:03:23] And you don't realize how badly role colors are readable on light mode until you use it lol [14:04:14] Exactly [14:04:36] Like...just give me a way to select colors for light and dark mode ? [14:04:55] 11 years of development and we still can't do that lmao [14:05:00] It's hard to select a color for text that will work well on both themes [14:08:24] I know people who prefer low contrast themes but I don't know if that's related [14:08:42] They also found our black background themes on UT/DR hard to read [14:09:19] So we made I guess [14:09:28] Too bad Vector 2022 doesn't support more than 2 themes [14:12:29] I'd be especially interested in any resources that suggest how to optimize dark mode for best viewing if say you have a skin where the choice is not available [14:12:59] a background is pretty manageable, worst case some tweak goes through and you look and say 'dammit' and just fix it until the next hopefully well-off occasion [14:17:16] [1/3] i added the hidesections extension, but it doesnt seem to work [14:17:16] [2/3] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1499414338874769408/image.png?ex=69f4b5ec&is=69f3646c&hm=143c32f6b7831b3a4d2b30fb9ae559113ab9dd6ecd0d7d57daf95cc4a56f7b79& [14:17:17] [3/3] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1499414339172700220/image.png?ex=69f4b5ec&is=69f3646c&hm=510313437a61fdad258b22e909d308c2e9322f05e195eae7cbe91dfb72cfd701& [14:17:59] [1/2] https://www.nngroup.com/articles/dark-mode-users-issues/ is pretty good, sums up some of the issues I was thinking about. [14:17:59] [2/2] https://stephaniewalter.design/blog/dark-mode-accessibility-myth-debunked/ Stephanie (I really recommend her content) lists a few resources to build better dark themes at the end of the article [14:18:12] (removing embeds to avoid cluttering this chat 😅 ) [14:41:43] [1/2] Hmm which one of these edits is the first [14:41:43] [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1499420491008442601/image.png?ex=69f4bba6&is=69f36a26&hm=da6e3efd97dda885e94934118f6decbeaa5e19d2a9dbfbda9e22bbd8877b521c& [14:49:43] make it a philosophy question, call it Kocka's Noticebox, and let the community figure that one out [14:50:23] but yeah, ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ [15:03:41] saved these onto meta btw, not sure what kind of if any traffic my userpage might get for it but its there [15:05:39] I was browsing meta userpages to see how userboxes are used and stumbled upon that :kek: [15:06:35] Kocka's quantum notification system in superposition until you click on one of them [15:16:09] Is it even the same wiki after the first edit? Wouldn't subsequent edits also be first edits in a Wiki of Theseus kind of way? [15:18:46] If wiki had a 1GB dump, how woudl you shard it? [16:07:30] `.xml` or `.xml.zst` are the usual formats [16:12:52] TIL about zst, thought gzip was the norm but i see it's more efficient? [16:16:31] I am confused how I could shard an XML dump [16:50:49] shard? [16:50:52] or share [16:51:14] shard you can just run multiple import processes with --skip-to [17:20:12] How do people inport wikipeida dumps? [17:21:08] usually they don't [17:21:25] why do you need to import wikipedia [17:21:57] I do not [17:22:13] well [17:22:14] either they wait a while [17:22:22] or they go get something with an epyc and multithread it [17:26:03] I received an email half an hour ago saying that someone left a message on my talk page, on a wiki I have never registered [17:26:54] I wonder if this is the right place to ask about Miraheze policies🤔 [17:27:57] you will probably have auto attached [17:28:07] if you visit a wiki while logged in it creates a local account [17:30:12] [1/2] https://mathpedia.miraheze.org/wiki/%E7%89%B9%E6%AE%8A:%E6%9C%80%E8%BF%91%E6%9B%B4%E6%94%B9?hidebots=1&limit=50&days=7&enhanced=1&urlversion=2 [17:30:12] [2/2] to be clear, the wiki admin is mass creating user pages and talk pages [17:30:55] manually [17:31:16] [1/2] someone on my team apparently forgot their Miraheze password, and they're saying that they aren't getting the password reset emails. They tried creating a new account, but apparently aren't getting the emails for that either. For their first account, we're sure the address is correct, since they used it to create the account initially. Is there a known issue with password reset [17:31:16] [2/2] emails? Should they just keep waiting? (It's been a few hours. They checked the spam folder, etc.) [17:32:22] I suspect many of these users aren't even aware of this wiki's existence [17:34:14] ah ic [17:34:17] different scenario [17:34:26] yeah a steward can give them a nice signal to move on [17:34:37] it's usually called a lock [17:37:24] the only clue to why this wiki tracked me is an article I edited elsewhere [17:38:01] this wiki imported that article (as they stated) [17:38:33] Absolutely not [17:38:59] It looks possibly annoying but there's nothing really against policy [17:39:08] it's a real dick move tbf [17:39:23] even if it's not officially disallowed it's not particularly good form [17:39:42] It's irritating but it ain't a dick move [17:39:51] there's worse things but [17:40:00] We have extensions that actively support leaving talk page messages automatically on welcome [17:40:21] yes but not blanket creating them for randoms who haven't ever interacted with the wiki [17:40:44] User page is a little more unusual but we ain't going to make a policy against people who want to have a set style for everyone [17:40:56] They did, they made an edit to an article that was imported [17:41:02] So an account was auto created [17:41:12] It's an artefact of a global account system [17:41:28] are they auto created on import too? [17:41:37] I thought they just attach when you visit [17:41:40] If the tickbox is ticked ye [17:41:47] ahhh [17:41:58] There's an option to match accounts up if the username is the same [17:42:02] special:import is useless for anything more than about 100 pages lol [17:42:08] so I never use it [17:42:42] well the article imported was not written on miraheze wikis [17:43:07] That has no bearing on this [17:43:28] Unless the edits aren't yours in which case we can unlink them [17:43:33] I mean there's nothing stopping you creating 100000 accounts by just making a fishy xml file [17:43:50] That would be correct [17:46:06] [1/2] well same usernames can be used by different people on different sites [17:46:06] [2/2] irrelevant people might be disturbed🤔 [17:46:16] Yes that's a fact [17:46:21] They might also use the same [17:46:30] It's an option that can be selected on the form [17:47:18] so what am i supposed to do then [17:47:58] Were the edits made by you? [17:48:40] [1/3] edits - yes [17:48:41] [2/3] edits on this wiki - no [17:48:41] [3/3] creation of userpages - no [17:49:48] The user page I couldn't care less about. If they were made by you on any site, magic and you have them attached to you now. If they were not made by you as a person on any site you have an account, we can remove them from your account. [17:51:46] OK then [17:52:09] thank you for your reply 🙏 [17:53:56] [1/2] hi. im sorry to inturrupt and yall can tell me to kick it over to the support threads if need be. but im trying to make a bulleted list based on importing from a category. i've been using gemini as a quick ref for this, but all of the solutions it proposes are through extensions i cant use like DPL, semantic, cargo...its all stuff mireheze won't allow me to use. the only thing it [17:53:57] [2/2] seems to think will work is using bucket but i have to manually add pages to the bucket first. i say this as someone who only has light coding experience and most of my experience is through fandom. [17:54:17] i cant link to the wiki though it seems because it's on a custom domain [17:54:36] We have 3 versions of DPL available [17:54:44] I think [17:54:46] Maybe 2 [17:54:51] They aren't restricted [17:55:03] Semantic and Cargo are available but restricted so you need to ask [17:55:11] i'm dumb thats way. i apparently never looked for them in the extensions -.- [17:55:24] im sorry [17:55:26] Bucket is new and modern. There's some examples on https://bucket.miraheze.org [17:55:51] It is preferred you use Bucket over Semantic and Cargo because it's a much nicer and well developed extension [17:55:56] @vernanonix [17:59:57] do i need to manually add pages to the bucket or is gemini just lying to me on this? [18:01:30] There's Lua modules to help on bucket wiki or open a thread in #support for one of our bucket experts [18:01:41] Gemini is awful [18:03:48] fair. i just dont have the repository of coding expertise a lot of people have so i just use it as a somewhat more convenient google lol [18:20:16] Gemini is very much going to lie to you since Bucket is now cutting edge technology with like 2 pages of documentation that may not have been indexed by LLMs yet [18:21:38] thaaaaaat makes sense [18:23:21] unless you give them web search, they always have knowledge cutoff and usually they are way dumber than modern local LLM [18:30:16] knowledge cutoff makes it particularly bad for code when it comes to new functions etc [18:37:48] I thought that imports only attach accounts that exist locally, but maybe CentralAuth does weird things and forces global accounts under the same name to be attached as well. [18:39:42] It's probably this hook https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Hooks/ImportHandleUnknownUser [18:42:10] https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T288411 [18:51:03] CentralAuth definitely does weird things [18:51:27] That's true for most CA related points [18:53:23] The WMF wants imports to work for incubator wikis so that decision makes a lot of sense. It doesn't make sense for imports not within the same CentralAuth instance. [18:53:53] Old enough to go to school now [18:55:04] I don't think that's possible to solve tbh [18:55:15] It would be for a transwiki import [18:55:21] But not an xml one [18:56:21] [1/2] I would rather WMF prioritize https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T21161 which is old enough to drive in the US and is a huge pain. [18:56:21] [2/2] Though chances are no one will address either problem. [18:57:17] Not sure how insane I am but you could go off the interwiki if it's set [18:57:18] 5 years old is rookie numbers [18:57:43] If both the interwiki is set and that box ticked, if the interwiki is to a wiki known to central auth, link them. If not, don't. [18:57:45] Adding an option to not auto-attach global users in all circumstances would work, but I don't know if the WMF is interested in this use case. [18:57:47] Where are the tasks that are old enough to vote [18:58:00] there are some tasks that I think are old enough to drink [18:58:32] Even better [18:58:34] https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T2005 is old enough to drink if my maths is right [18:58:59] That's probably never getting solved [18:59:20] Yes [18:59:38] wait until mira reaches the age that tasks will be old enough to drink [18:59:49] what next, a task old enough to run to be the president in the US [19:00:12]