[02:45:31] Another weird list-handling issue? Will a similar workaround fix Z17348? [08:19:45] I don’t think so. The implementation isn’t failing, it’s returning a list of function calls. That is how Z17349 is specified. I’ve disconnected that implementation and we now get back a list of Natural numbers. Presumably they need summing, but that would mean re-writing the implementation 🤷‍♂️ (re @Toby: Another weird list-handling issue? Will a similar workaround fix [08:19:45] Z17348?) [15:37:50] I do indeed find it weird that you send links to a Hebrew page on an English chat, but hey, to each their own ;) (re @amire80: (Isn't it weird that I send links that force everything to be Hebrew? I find the Wikidata way, in which the URL is the same for ...) [16:47:39] I send a _link_. The software that runs Wikifunctions, which you developed, is the thing that makes it Hebrew. The software that runs Wikidata, which you also developed, doesn't do it, and it makes a lot of sense. (re @vrandecic: I do indeed find it weird that you send links to a Hebrew page on an English chat, but hey, to each their own ;)) [16:50:09] I know that I can manually change the link from `/he/` to `/en/`, but why should I have to do it every time? [16:53:16] However, as odd as I find this issue, it's a relatively small one in the grand scheme of things. I see that @vrandecic is going over old messages in this chat, which were sent while he was understandably busy with other things, and the thing to which I'd love to read his reply much more is... [16:53:33] ... this one. (re @amire80: Only now I am noticing something that I should have noticed in December 2022.) [16:54:52] When and _why_ did the scope described in https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Abstract_Wikipedia/Tasks change? [17:28:57] You are correct! I fixed the text in the newsletter on wiki: https://www.wikifunctions.org/wiki/Wikifunctions:Status_updates/2024-10-02#Function_of_the_Week:_product_of_list_of_natural_numbers (although, for commutative operations like multiplications it doesn't matter, it was nevertheless wrong) (re @Toby: @vrandecic "In Wikifunctions, the right fold function is [17:28:57] the same as the [17:28:57] reduce function with the difference that the reduce fun...) [17:34:10] I am happy to agree it is minor, but I think I also did a mistake with Wikidata. For example, if I send you https://hr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikola_Tesla you also don't expect this to turn into Hebrew. (re @amire80: I know that I can manually change the link from /he/ to /en/, but why should I have to do it every time?) [17:42:28] I thought I answered this before to you: Wikifunctions won't be and never was planned to be a drop-in replacement for templates, and does not plan to cover all the features of the global templates proposal, unfortunately. It will allow to call a centralized library of functions from all wikis. This will cover some use cases which templates and global templates [17:42:28] cover, but not all [17:42:28] of it. (re @amire80: ... this one.) [17:44:41] I hope this helps, but I know it is a complicated thing, and to be honest, I obviously have no idea how far each of our communities will adopt the offered solution, and I don't want to speak for them. I also don't know how far exactly we will be able to push Wikifunctions. [17:45:22] Oh, yes, and italics / emphasis or similar, etc. will be possible, just not intially [17:46:09] What's really giving us a headache though are things that require global context, such as titles, references, etc. We don't have a good solution for that yet, but understand their importance. [17:46:30] And yes, I was going today through about 1300 unread messages 😄 Sorry! But back here! [17:51:20] (And yes, I saw a few unanswered things, but I don't want to reopen two months old threads, so if there is something you want to discuss, feel free to point to it, as Amir did, and I am thinkful for that. [17:56:05] It’s not a big deal for me, but it would be nice if our multilingual wiki gave us the option to share a link like https://www.wikifunctions.org/view/en/Z1 when we are viewing a page like https://www.wikifunctions.org/view/en/Z1. (re @vrandecic: I am happy to agree it is minor, but I think I also did a mistake with Wikidata. For example, if I send you [17:56:05] https://hr.wikipedia...) [17:58:13] I am afraid you need to rephrase this for me to understand what you mean, sorry (re @Al: It’s not a big deal for me, but it would be nice if our multilingual wiki gave us the option to share a link like https://www.wi...) [18:00:00] Yes, sorry… a link like https://www.wikifunctions.org/wiki/Z1 (re @vrandecic: I am afraid you need to rephrase this for me to understand what you mean, sorry) [18:01:46] And what would you expect that link to show you? [18:02:27] I would expect that to depend on my interface language. [18:07:27] So behave like Special:MyLanguage on meta? [18:10:37] I don't expect this to turn into Hebrew because it's a monolingual project, the Croatian Wikipedia. Wikifunctions and Wikidata are multilingual projects. (re @vrandecic: I am happy to agree it is minor, but I think I also did a mistake with Wikidata. For example, if I send you https://hr.wikipedia...) [18:11:18] Wikipedia is a multilingual project [18:11:31] Wikipedia is a multilingual project. The Croatian Wikipedia isn't. [18:11:40] But again, this is _relatively_ minor. [18:13:46] So Wikifunctions behaves like Wikipedia 🙂 [18:15:22] Either you and I have a very different understanding of some technical terms, or there is a logical contradiction between the following two statements: [18:15:22] 1. User:Denny, May 5, 2020 (https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Abstract_Wikipedia/Tasks&oldid=20045297): "This plan covers the initial 30 months of development. The main deliverables after that time will be: [...] A cross-wiki repository to share templates and modules between the WMF projects, which is a long-standing wish by the communities. This will be [18:15:23] part of Wikilambda." [18:15:24] 2. @vrandecic, October 14, 2024: "Wikifunctions [...] *never* was planned to be a drop-in replacement for templates." (My emphasis on "never".) (re @vrandecic: I thought I answered this before to you: Wikifunctions won't be and never was planned to be a drop-in replacement for templates,...) [18:16:34] Well, maybe not exactly. I can’t remember what all my issues with Meta were, but I don’t like the fact that following a link from a translated page doesn’t take me to a translated page. (re @vrandecic: So behave like Special:MyLanguage on meta?) [18:17:47] "A cross-wiki repository to share templates and modules between the WMF projects" was a mistake, and I was trying actually to figure out how that came into the plan. I was always very explicit that this isn't what we want to deliver. That's why I asked to put the deprecation tag on this text. [18:18:31] To the best of what I could retrace the history of the text, *I did write* that sentence, but it was a mistake. [18:18:53] It's also one of the things I don't like about them, and it's embarrassing because I'm one of the developers of the extension :( [18:18:54] There is a template on mediawiki.org (https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Template:Page_language_link) that achieves it, but it should be a usual link and not a template. (re @Al: Well, maybe not exactly. I can’t remember what all my issues with Meta were, but I don’t like the fact that following a link fro...) [18:20:56] It should have been "A cross-wiki repository to share functions [or functionality] between the WMF projects" [18:31:44] So you are basically saying that on May 22, 2020, the Board voted for a mistake? [18:31:45] This is the Board resolution: https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Resolution:Abstract_Wikipedia [18:31:47] It links to https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Abstract_Wikipedia , which in turn links to https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Abstract_Wikipedia/Tasks , which, on May 22, 2020, said: "A cross-wiki repository to share templates and modules between the WMF projects, which is a long-standing wish by the communities. This will be part of Wikilambda." [18:33:29] I would like less accusatory and, generally speaking, softer tones [18:33:41] thanks [18:35:11] No, I am just saying that this sentence may be misunderstood out of context. If you read on further down it says: "This will, in fact, create a centralized templating system as people realize that they can now reimplement templates in Wikifunctions and then call them from their local Wikis." [18:37:46] Calling it "templates and modules" was the mistake. But as the rest of the documents describes, this is not the global templates proposal. It does not do everything global templates does. [18:38:35] Some functions will be like what some templates are today, some functions will be like what some modules are today. Those functions will be shared through a cross-wiki repository. [18:41:07] Again, the formulation was, and I agree with that, a mistake as it can be so easily misunderstood out of the context of the document. The decision of the Board was also done after a discussion with the then C-team and myself. I really think I never promised a drop-in relacement for templates, or promised the full scope of global templates. [23:09:00] So a function will be able to output `Brooks, Frederick P. (1975). ''[https://archive.org/details/mythicalmanmonth00broo The Mythical Man-Month]''. Addison-Wesley` and the words "The Mythical Man-Month" and it will be displayed in a wiki page that calls it as italic and hyperlinked? (re @vrandecic: Oh, yes, and italics / emphasis or similar, etc. will be possible, [23:09:00] just not intially) [23:09:02] You're right, I need to wrap it with Z17307. (but then I encounter the list-function selector issue) (re @Al: I don’t think so. The implementation isn’t failing, it’s returning a list of function calls. That is how Z17349 is specified. I’...)