[00:41:24] [[WF:Type proposals/Moment in time]] [07:04:32] Sorry, could you please write your replies in one message. This will make it easier to follow different conversation threads. Telegram has this functionality to just see particular thread if needed. This helps when there are several parallel discussions in this chat. [07:04:33] This chat is already complicated with bots transferring other messages from IRC channels and inserting function links/references. Sorry but your fragmented replies are also getting lost in this and it's difficult to understand them. (re @Feeglgeef: IIRC) [07:22:53] No (re @T_2x2: Sorry, could you please write your replies in one message. This will make it easier to follow different conversation threads. Te...) [07:23:32] Sorry [07:23:36] :) [07:23:39] Why? Is there any technical reason? (re @Feeglgeef: No) [07:24:08] It helps me get my thoughts out (re @T_2x2: Why? Is there any technical reason?) [07:24:33] I'm not neurotypical [07:25:16] You can also get your thoughts out in one message like everyone is doing (re @Feeglgeef: It helps me get my thoughts out) [07:25:31] No I can't (re @T_2x2: You can also get your thoughts out in one message like everyone is doing) [07:25:36] Like I told you [07:25:44] I'm not neurotypical [07:28:46] Why can't the people in wheelchairs walk like every one else? ass sentence (re @T_2x2: You can also get your thoughts out in one message like everyone is doing) [07:29:25] Ah. But maybe you can try. [07:29:25] There could be other not neurotypical people in this chat who finds difficult to deal with fragmented replies. If you just try to find some compromise would be better for everyone (re @Feeglgeef: I'm not neurotypical) [07:30:14] Ah. But maybe the people in the wheelchairs can just walk for everyone else's convenience! (re @T_2x2: Ah. But maybe you can try. [07:30:15] There could be other not neurotypical people in this chat who finds difficult to deal with fragmente...) [07:31:01] Appreciate what you try to say. But you said earlier you code in Python. Are you coding in this matter ? I doubt (re @Feeglgeef: Why can't the people in wheelchairs walk like every one else? ass sentence) [07:31:44] Actually you click the enter key every statement [07:31:50] Literally what I am doing [07:31:53] Right now [07:32:54] If you look at my JS code it's actually missing a lot of semicolons [07:33:15] You can also click "." dot at end of statement and continue with another [07:35:01] Then it's still in the textbox [07:35:09] I can't type like that [07:42:22] I wonder how you send emails? That is also textbook. [07:42:22] Just a rhetoric question though. [07:42:24] OK, I'm not trying to pressure you. I just raised point to make you aware that your ideas are getting lost in fragmented replies when you type like this and chat is also gets flooded 😐 [07:43:02] Who tf uses email? (re @T_2x2: I wonder how you send emails? That is also textbook. [07:43:03] Just a rhetoric question though. [07:43:04] OK, I'm not trying to pressure you. I ju...) [07:43:06] It's 2024 [07:44:33] Many professions and corporates 🤷 (re @Feeglgeef: Who tf uses email?) [07:45:43] to add to what Denny told you earlier, do not refer to other’s comments as an “ass sentence” (re @Feeglgeef: Why can't the people in wheelchairs walk like every one else? ass sentence) [07:48:31] Ass is a conjunction, not an adjective (re @lucaswerkmeister: to add to what Denny told you earlier, do not refer to other’s comments as an “ass sentence”) [07:48:56] In the case I was using it in [07:49:20] It's functionally a synonym of "like" [13:14:45] I do, and if it's relevant, I'm also not neurotypical. Plenty of other people use email. Please be nicer. (re @Feeglgeef: Who tf uses email?) [13:21:20] Everyone and more and more. [13:21:21] "An estimated 347.3 billion emails are sent each day around the globe, marking a 4.3% increase from the previous year." (re @Feeglgeef: Who tf uses email?) [13:22:13] Really? (re @Nicolas: Everyone and more and more. [13:22:13] "An estimated 347.3 billion emails are sent each day around the globe, marking a 4.3% increase from ...) [13:22:21] That's a lot [13:26:07] Please try to put together as much as you can your messages in one, and try to be as respectful as needed in this chat (re @Feeglgeef: Why can't the people in wheelchairs walk like every one else? ass sentence) [13:28:01] I try :) (re @Sannita: Please try to put together as much as you can your messages in one, and try to be as respectful as needed in this chat) [13:40:56] I use email sometimes (re @Feeglgeef: Who tf uses email?) [13:41:23] Ok guys [13:41:26] I get it [13:44:03] Many of we Wikimedia users didn’t leave other contacts other than email [13:44:38] This is at least a last resort to reach someone (re @cvictorovich: Many of we Wikimedia users didn’t leave other contacts other than email) [13:44:47] I don't mind that much the multiple messages [13:44:48] But the rude language and the obviously wrong assumptions are very problematic [13:47:39] Likewise I didn’t leave any contacts rich on Wikimedia pages (re @cvictorovich: Many of we Wikimedia users didn’t leave other contacts other than email) [13:48:56] No longer maintains (re @cvictorovich: Likewise I didn’t leave any contacts right on Wikimedia pages) [13:49:08] Has been long outdated [13:49:40] People whoever needs me very much would find me anyways [13:50:01] See (re @cvictorovich: No longer maintains) [13:50:05] My point [14:15:32] Honestly « obviously wrong assumptions » are much worse and more problematic than rudeness (re @Nicolas: I don't mind that much the multiple messages [14:15:33] But the rude language and the obviously wrong assumptions are very problematic) [14:40:41] Well, everybody does mistakes but doing them while being rude and high-frequency is a very bad mix (re @cvictorovich: Honestly « obviously wrong assumptions » are much worse and more problematic than rudeness) [14:45:33] No communications can be made with obviously wrong definitions or assumptions [15:33:32] I have added a renderer and parser back to natural numbers, which makes the function interface for every function using natural numbers a bit nicer. This was removed in March, as it was causing errors. Let me know if you notice unusual behavior. [20:14:37] I ask this every few weeks, and I'm going to try again :) [20:15:14] Is there a projected syntax for inserting a function call into wikitext? Something like `{{#function:Z58574|arg1|arg2|arg3}}? [20:44:55] Why is there a "Language" field on Special:CreateObject if it can never be changed? [20:45:19] https://tools-static.wmflabs.org/bridgebot/53a0e6f5/file_66386.jpg [20:48:34] Another issue with the function creation form: The types dropdown lists two suggested types and doesn't clearly hint that more may be available. I happen to know that there are more and that I can find them by typing, but new users don't know it. [20:48:48] https://tools-static.wmflabs.org/bridgebot/3c2c3179/file_66387.jpg [20:49:51] If the dropdown didn't show anything at all, then I'd try to type to search it. But it shows some things and it's not obvious that more things exist. [20:56:22] And the placeholder says "Select type". I understand the word "Select" as selection out of several presented options and not so much searching for more things that I don't see at the moment. [21:12:40] Now, after all this nitpicking about the function creation form, I have a question about actually creating a function. [21:13:39] A few weeks ago I made https://www.wikifunctions.org/view/en/Z18784 . It gets a string, which is supposed to be a name of a language in Russian, and returns it in different grammatical form. [21:14:00] Now I want to make a function that does the same, but the parameter will be a Wikifunctions language object. [21:16:27] For example, https://www.wikifunctions.org/view/en/Z1442 , which is the Duala language. It has a label in Russian, "дуала". I want to write a function that when it gets Z1442, it looks into this language object, extracts the string value of the language name in Russian from it, and then runs function Z18784 and gives it this string as a parameter. Does it make sense? [21:18:40] (Come to think of it... Why are names of languages in Wikifunctions language objects hardcoded strings? Wouldn't it make sense if they directly pointed to Q or L entity on Wikidata instead? Has anyone thought of that?-) [21:19:41] Back to this, I couldn't figure out how to write an implementation for it. Should it be JavaScript or composition? And how do I look into the language object that I get as a parameter? (re @amire80: For example, https://www.wikifunctions.org/view/en/Z1442 , which is the Duala language. It has a label in Russian, "дуала". I wa...) [21:45:50] Integers and Typed lists should be on there IMO (re @amire80: Another issue with the function creation form: The types dropdown lists two suggested types and doesn't clearly hint that more m...) [21:49:39] Composition, using Z860 (re @amire80: Back to this, I couldn't figure out how to write an implementation for it. Should it be JavaScript or composition? And how do I ...) [22:00:16] I got “на языке дуала” (re @amire80: Back to this, I couldn't figure out how to write an implementation for it. Should it be JavaScript or composition? And how do I ...) [22:01:41] T344170 would help here (re @amire80: (Come to think of it... Why are names of languages in Wikifunctions language objects hardcoded strings? Wouldn't it make sense i...) [22:02:21] It's correct, but where? (re @Al: I got “на языке дуала”) [22:02:29] How did you get it? [22:03:01] But I want a language object, not a language code. (re @Feeglgeef: Composition, using Z860) [22:03:16] (A function with a language code can probably be useful, too.) [22:06:55] Get the language code from the language object???? [22:07:00] I suspect the main reason is that it's a lot simpler, since it's just reusing the same system that the other objects use. but also using lexemes would make it unnecessarily hard for people to edit (since they have to first figure out how to create all the lexemes), and item labels largely come from wikipedia page names and are a mess in a lot of languages (re @amire80: [22:07:00] (Come to t [22:07:01] hink of it... Why are names of languages in Wikifunctions language objects hardcoded strings? Wouldn't it make sense i...) [22:07:03] Z60K1 [22:07:41] Um. (re @Nikki: I suspect the main reason is that it's a lot simpler, since it's just reusing the same system that the other objects use. but al...) [22:08:13] The argument to Z18784 is a call to Z16568… (re @amire80: How did you get it?) [22:13:49] By this logic, editing the English Wikipedia is a lot simpler than editing Abstract Wikipedia, and for now it's even true, but isn't using Lexemes supposed to be the goal of Abstract Wikipedia? (re @Nikki: I suspect the main reason is that it's a lot simpler, since it's just reusing the same system that the other objects use. but al...) [22:14:41] It looks like this. : https://tools-static.wmflabs.org/bridgebot/0d7aa9d5/file_66389.jpg [22:22:29] I'm not sure I understand. How do I even get to this "Quote" thing? (re @Al: It looks like this.) [22:23:18] Huh? What are you talking about? (re @amire80: I'm not sure I understand. How do I even get to this "Quote" thing?) [22:24:14] You set the input to a function call, make that call Z16568, input "Natural Language", input what language you want, input Russian [22:26:02] Oh wow, how did you even get to Z16568? Is there a cheat sheet of these numbers? [22:26:32] Is it like a number that everybody knows by heart and only I don't? [22:26:37] Plagiarized it from GrounderUK (re @amire80: Oh wow, how did you even get to Z16568? Is there a cheat sheet of these numbers?) [22:27:50] I suppose the catalogue should probably have a section for what are considered extra useful functions [22:28:14] For composition making and such [22:31:04] Yes, it’s a bit odd… When you search and select “object label” as the function you want to call (to supply the argument to your function) it requires a quoted object as its first argument. You have to change the Quote from a literal object to a Reference and search and select the language object whose label you want. Specifying that you want the Russian label is straightf [22:31:04] [22:31:04] orward. (re @amire80: I'm not sure I understand. How do I even get to this "Quote" thing?) [22:31:33] I've created one in my userspace, [[User:Feeglgeef/Useful_functions]]. If you have any, please add them! [22:33:30] Thank you so much for this. Few things are more satisfying than feeling than something is very odd and then hearing someone else confirming that it is, indeed, odd. (re @Al: Yes, it’s a bit odd… When you search and select “object label” as the function you want to call (to supply the argument to your ...) [22:37:34] But... more to the point... if the type of input 1 for Z18784 is supposed to be a string, then why can I even change it at all to something else when I use "Try this function"? [22:37:52] Isn't it supposed to be always "string"? [22:39:08] Yes, it has to be a string, but the string can be a literal string, a function call returning a string or a reference to a string. (re @amire80: Isn't it supposed to be always "string"?) [22:39:49] object label is a function returning a string. [22:43:05] the goal, sure, but we're not there yet, by a long way (e.g. there are zero lexemes for the name of duala)... plus wikifunctions isn't *only* about abstract wikipedia, there'll be people who want to translate the language names they're seeing in the interface in wikifunctions who aren't particularly interested in working on lexemes in wikidata (re @amire80: By this [22:43:05] logic, editing [22:43:06] the English Wikipedia is a lot simpler than editing Abstract Wikipedia, and for now it's even true, but i...) [22:47:23] What else is it about? :) (re @Nikki: the goal, sure, but we're not there yet, by a long way (e.g. there are zero lexemes for the name of duala)... plus wikifunctions...) [22:51:53] creating functions that other people can use :P just looking at the main page, I'm not sure what things like "is a palindrome", "is prime", "is pangram (Latin alphabet)" and "Caesar cipher (Latin alphabet)" from the main page would be used for in a wikipedia (re @amire80: What else is it about? :)) [22:52:26] I see a very very limited demo use (re @Nikki: creating functions that other people can use :P just looking at the main page, I'm not sure what things like "is a palindrome", ...) [22:52:40] Which I think should be a thing in abstract articles [22:52:52] But otherwise, there is not much