[00:00:53] Is this what you need: [[Wikifunctions:Support_for_Wikidata_content]]? In most cases there are functions here or in the subpages to decompose and extract the bits you want [[Wikifunctions:Catalogue/Wikidata_operations]] (re @Csisc1994: Probably, we can do better if someone explains to use how to parse what is fetched using "Fetch Wikidata Item", "Fetch Wikidata ...) [00:19:43] I find the QIDs unnecessary and distracting in Z32878. Perhaps we should have a language composition version where it only uses the QID when the item doesn't have a label in that language or cognates. (re @Al: Progress!) [00:52:27] I do too. We could at least adopt the standard « Label (QID) » format, possibly with a small (QID), or incorporate the Wikidata barcode (but even that is more obtrusive than it should be). But I’m leaving the aesthetics for others to comment on or boldly alter. (re @u99of9: I find the QIDs unnecessary and distracting in Z32878. Perhaps we should have a language [00:52:27] composition v [00:52:28] ersion where it only uses ...) [01:50:58] Is Z33018 failing due to a mismatching model for representing lexeme forms (it has "instance of: obsolete form") or a javascript issue? [01:52:00] L269836-F1 . But I'm also not sure if L269836-F2 should actually be plural not singular? [05:12:49] Well I mean you don't have "A himalaya" like you can have "A united state" (re @u99of9: L269836-F1 . But I'm also not sure if L269836-F2 should actually be plural not singular?) [05:13:06] I'm not sure [05:14:32] I've updated this to add functions like ZNaturalNumber or ZBoolean to make it easier to make calls. (re @Feeglgeef: I've created https://pypi.org/project/wikifunctions because I noticed the name was available) [05:28:01] viable, best practice suggestion: [05:28:02] * starts with a hatnote (empty if not yet needed) [05:28:04] * uses only top-level multilingual functions [05:28:05] * has at least 6 sentences or 5 referenced factual claims [05:28:07] * the sentences render in at least two linguistically different languages besides English (e.g. French and Korean, Russian and Chinese, etc.) [05:28:31] Why do we need hatnotes? (re @Npriskorn: viable, best practice suggestion: [05:28:32] * starts with a hatnote (empty if not yet needed) [05:28:34] * uses only top-level multilingual functions...) [05:28:35] Al GrounderUK @Jan_ainali better? [05:29:56] it's an introduction to what the article is about if I understood correctly. [05:29:58] maybe it should be the description from WD like in enwiki? (re @Feeglgeef: Why do we need hatnotes?) [05:31:02] I don't think we should use hatnotes any differently from Wikipedias [05:31:56] These are enwiki's guidelines: : https://tools-static.wmflabs.org/bridgebot/bc95d4a8/file_79129.jpg [05:44:24] Except enwiki is the only wiki not using the description from Wikidata. They are manually typing their own. (re @Npriskorn: it's an introduction to what the article is about if I understood correctly. [05:44:25] maybe it should default to the description from WD ...) [06:50:53] How should we handle links? In enwiki they are embedded in the text, is that ideal for AW or does it just increase complexity? : https://tools-static.wmflabs.org/bridgebot/f3bf99c8/file_79131.jpg [06:51:29] oh. ok, then let's not copy them 😅 (re @Jan_ainali: Except enwiki is the only wiki not using the description from Wikidata. They are manually typing their own.) [06:52:40] I'm thinking the links can be listed in the end based on the structured data until we have functions that handle them well (re @Npriskorn: How should we handle links? In enwiki they are embedded in the text, is that ideal for AW or does it just increase complexity?) [07:02:06] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Short_description#/media/File:Abe_lincoln_on_app.jpg [07:02:07] Looking at this image, there are two texts above the text, the short description, just under the title and a hatnote, just above the article main text. @Npriskorn Which type where you thinking about when you added this? [07:16:19] Can we read tabular data via WikiFunctions? [07:16:40] this had no tests Z32635 so I disconnected it [07:16:59] Not yet AFAIK (re @nya_1F616EMO: Can we read tabular data via WikiFunctions?) [07:18:14] If we could, articles such as [[:en:Hong Kong at the Paralympics]] might be the best articles for abstractwiki. [07:18:20] well the first is a description and the second is a hatnote, both should be present on all items in AW IMO (re @Jan_ainali: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Short_description#/media/File:Abe_lincoln_on_app.jpg [07:18:20] Looking at this image, there are tw...) [07:18:49] At least for the table part, we can have a universal function that is used on every such articles (re @nya_1F616EMO: If we could, articles such as [[:en:Hong Kong at the Paralympics]] might be the best articles for abstractwiki.) [08:09:32] In my opinion, it’s a necessary added complexity to have sentences that contain links. I believe it is also necessary to avoid duplicate links. If we can also use a strong/bold link when a link is to the article that contains it, I think we should do that too. [08:09:34] When it comes to handling multiple links (for example, to a Wikidata item, its lexeme in the language or a Wikipedia article in the language’s Wikipedia), the text is likely to look too “busy”. Here, the action or pattern of Z31906 might be used, but I’d be inclined to avoid using a superscript (or whatever style we choose for references). Simply, (in my opinion) there is [08:09:34] [08:09:35] one style for internal (Abstract Wikipedia article) links, one for references, one for links to external URLs (if supported) and a degree of fuzziness around interwiki links (including Wikidata, Wikifunctions and non-article AW pages). (re @Npriskorn: I'm thinking the links can be listed in the end of the article based on the structured data until we have functions that [08:09:35] handle . [08:09:37] ..) [08:14:01] hello [08:19:59] Hello. (re @wmtelegram_bot: hello) [08:43:28] About factual information, instead of writing on the AW side, isn't it better to write it on the wikidata side, including references, and get it from there as a default? [08:43:29] Also, when creating an AW article using Q number, how about auto-generating an infobox like a Databox (https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikidata_For_Wikimedia_Projects/Projects/Databox) template from Wikidata items? [09:04:17] Facts are better recorded on Wikidata and fetched for the AW article as required, yes. Currently, references from Wikidata are not fetched. This was temporarily disabled for performance reasons. [09:04:17] Small infoboxes should be possible today. As with any grouping of data, the current obstacle is performance. Infoboxes typically link to other Wikidata items, and the labels for each of these would currently have to be fetched separately. [09:04:19] A prototype using nested lists constructed within the article itself is in [[abstract:Q300385]]. I haven’t tried having the whole section generated from a single function call yet. (re @higa4: About factual information, instead of writing on the AW side, isn't it better to write it on the wikidata side, including refere...) [09:07:52] Put as many triples as you can into Wikidata. AW may well draw on them. But sentences can express facts in more understandable and nuanced ways than triples can. So we need to aim to do better than just a natural-language-rendered Wikidata. (re @higa4: About factual information, instead of writing on the AW side, isn't it better to write it on the wikidata side, [09:07:53] including refere...) [09:08:36] Is it possible to make an object in Wikifunctions that is a typed list? I want to make a typed list of variants of the English language, to make consistency in the configs for sentences. [09:10:35] Yes. But Z24144 may already be doing what you are thinking of 🤷‍♂️ (re @wmtelegram_bot: Is it possible to make an object in Wikifunctions that is a typed list? I want to make a typed list of varian...) [09:15:15] Ah, sorry… you’re talking just about configurations. It should work in theory 🤔 (re @wmtelegram_bot: Is it possible to make an object in Wikifunctions that is a typed list? I want to make a typed list of varian...) [09:16:24] Special:CreateObject isn't letting me though. [09:29:42] 🤔 …because Z881 is a function that needs to be called, not a type specified by reference? 🤷‍♂️ (re @wmtelegram_bot: Special:CreateObject isn't letting me though.) [09:32:46] then how do you create a list object? [09:34:04] By clicking the menu dots and choosing function call instead of reference. (re @wmtelegram_bot: then how do you create a list object?) [10:35:23] Does anyone know how to debig invalid key in this impl Z32828? [10:56:12] test individual pieces of the composition by running them separately with similar inputs (re @Npriskorn: Does anyone know how to debig invalid key in this impl Z32828?) [10:57:07] one problem you'll discover is that Z32822 doesn't have any connected implementations 😊 [11:11:03] bd808, quiddity: Yes, we can probably drop the IRC rights down a bit here, but the people with IRC ops aren't often around so I worry that abuse would come back… [11:16:48] I started a discussion about suboptimal data modelling for demonyms in WD which leads to duplication of data in multiple places (lexemes and items) : https://tools-static.wmflabs.org/bridgebot/7d2bd62e/file_79137.jpg [11:18:01] this led to the rabbit hole of demonyms 🙈😅 (re @u99of9: one problem you'll discover is that Z32822 doesn't have any connected implementations 😊) [11:18:07] I've never seen this panel take so long I could read it and snapshot it. (Issue not specific to this function.) : https://tools-static.wmflabs.org/bridgebot/0fd08db4/file_79138.jpg [11:30:56] https://tools-static.wmflabs.org/bridgebot/bd64b48f/file_79139.jpg [11:31:40] same in WD (re @u99of9: ) [11:33:05] https://www.wikimediastatus.net : https://tools-static.wmflabs.org/bridgebot/b13d9584/file_79140.jpg [11:34:06] Does anyone want to translate Z32919 into another language in the next week so I can show off creation of an article like https://abstract.wikipedia.org/wiki/Q55771891 during the talk? [11:42:25] Cannot access the database: Database servers in cluster26 are overloaded. In order to protect application servers, the circuit breaking to databases of this section have been activated. Please try again a few seconds. [11:42:27] ugh [11:44:22] How to connect tests and implementations? [11:45:34] Tests do not work when they are not connected, are they? [11:48:00] Please request at [[Wikifunctions:Community_portal#Tasks_listed_by_users]]. You should see results for unconnected test cases on the function page. (re @OverflowCat: How to connect tests and implementations?) [11:50:56] Tests (and their results for each implementation) are still visible on the main function page even before they are connected. However they are not visible from within an implementation until they are connected. (re @OverflowCat: Tests do not work when they are not connected, are they?) [12:39:32] How are sentences in an article connected? [12:40:11] There should be zero spaces between sentences in Chinese or Japanese. Now there are 2 [13:12:12] Where, for example? (re @OverflowCat: There should be zero spaces between sentences in Chinese or Japanese. Now there are 2) [13:17:47] https://abstract.wikipedia.org/wiki/Q276781 (re @Al: Where, for example?) [13:18:18] https://tools-static.wmflabs.org/bridgebot/0399b95b/file_79143.jpg [13:56:44] Hmm… It does look like you get no space inserted if you wrap the sentences as a paragraph. If you don’t wrap the sentences, you seem to get two spaces inserted, which seems incorrect, but HTML collapses multiple spaces to a single space, so it’s not obvious with other scripts 🤔 [13:56:46] 梅宮大社は日本にある神社である。オオヤマツミは梅宮大社の祭神である。 [13:56:47] I think we’ll need to file a ticket on Phabricator. (re @OverflowCat: ) [14:01:17] I think the system should default to no spaced and we can wrap sentences in paragraphs and paragraphs in sections using functions (re @Al: Hmm… It does look like you get no space inserted if you wrap the sentences as a paragraph. If you don’t wrap the sentences, you ...) [14:01:40] Or we get built-in stuff that does the same thing [14:11:16] Probably. But wrapping currently implies a composite function call, with all the timeouts that implies. It is probably more correct to expect the “sentence” constructor to supply the space following the sentence, where this is required. But let’s just describe the problem for now. (re @Npriskorn: I think the system should default to no spaced and we can wrap sentences in [14:11:17] pa [14:11:17] ragraphs and paragraphs in sections using function...) [14:12:04] Answer from the engs: "I don't think the bug is reasonably solvable. We either resolve Z9/Referencess to Z8/Functions when returning them (breaking this task) or we don't (breaking a different one). Re-writing the user implementation to reply with the reference inside a Z99/Quote is the better way forward." (re @Al: Thanks for pointing that out. It seems to have [14:12:04] regressed with th [14:12:04] e latest deployment. @Sannita, I know it’s holiday time, but cou...) [14:15:11] Thank you (and them) for that. We’ll see what we can do! (re @Sannita: Answer from the engs: "I don't think the bug is reasonably solvable. We either resolve Z9/Referencess to Z8/Functions when retur...) [14:37:56] Are there some user groups needed in order to edit/connect/disconnect implementations? [14:38:22] Yes, Functioneer. (re @Winston_Sung: Are there some user groups needed in order to edit/connect/disconnect implementations?) [14:39:35] [[Wikifunctions:Requests for user groups]] (re @Al: Yes, Functioneer.) [14:41:00] Should I request for it or ask someone to connect/disconnect it? (re @Al: [[Wikifunctions:Requests for user groups]]) [14:42:56] Both? There’s a 48-hour waiting period. Requests can be made at [[Wikifunctions:Community_portal#Tasks_listed_by_users]] (re @Winston_Sung: Should I request for the user group or ask someone to connect/disconnect it?) [15:11:02] ...Who connected different Simplified/Traditional Han script test cases into the same function? [15:11:04] https://www.wikifunctions.org/wiki/Z32788 [15:13:28] User:Sun8908? (re @Winston_Sung: ...Who connected different Simplified/Traditional Han script test cases into the same function? [15:13:28] https://www.wikifunctions.org/...) [15:20:26] https://tools-static.wmflabs.org/bridgebot/ef6e1fbc/file_79150.jpg [15:20:36] Oh my... [15:23:34] Well... It's not good but if there is no function for zh-Hant it better than fallback to English 😉 (re @Winston_Sung: Oh my...) [15:24:41] No thanks. That's like mixing Arabic script English inside Latin script English. (re @NicolasVIGNERON: Well... It's not good but if there is no function for zh-Hant it better than fallback to English 😉) [15:26:00] I think you can change configurations without Functioneer rights. (re @Winston_Sung: No thanks. That's like mixing Arabic script English inside Latin script English.) [15:36:36] Copying the entire implementation to create another implementation seems to be something not preferred... [15:36:37] ...I guess we need another layer for these implementations. [15:51:09] wait, so you prefer nothing? strange but fair (re @Winston_Sung: No thanks. That's like mixing Arabic script English inside Latin script English.) [15:53:09] 🤷‍♂️ Maybe you’re right. A simple copy has the merit of simplicity. I’m not sure how much you gain by just pushing the choices down a level, but it’s already an option, if we ignore the performance implications. (re @Winston_Sung: Copying the entire implementation to create another implementation seems to be something not preferred... [15:53:10] ...I guess we need ano...) [15:56:10] oh, it seems i've created duplicated functions (re @Winston_Sung: ...Who connected different Simplified/Traditional Han script test cases into the same function? [15:56:11] https://www.wikifunctions.org/...) [15:56:26] they are not connected so I assume there are none [15:57:27] I think we need languageConverter (re @Winston_Sung: ) [15:58:22] but I don't know where it should be in, transforming the result or the underlying lexemes [15:58:59] also there is a lang code param in monolingual text [15:59:40] Creating 9 different functions just for Mandarin Chinese will be insane [16:03:47] I am trying to write implementations but cannot select specific function. Is it due to the functions didn't have connected implementations? [16:03:56] meanwhile, on Mediawiki I see several fallback between different scripts (including zh-Hant to zh-Hans and in reverse) : https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fichier:MediaWiki_fallback_chains.svg [16:05:07] AFAIK, it shouldn't... [16:05:08] and, in my case, I often wrongly try to select functions in the wrong datatype (re @Winston_Sung: I am trying to write implementations but cannot select specific function. Is it due to the functions didn't have connected imple...) [16:06:11] Trying to call https://www.wikifunctions.org/wiki/Z33040 but couldn't. (re @NicolasVIGNERON: AFAIK, it shouldn't... [16:06:11] and, in my case, I often wrongly try to select functions in the wrong datatype) [16:10:33] It looks okay in a context where monolingual text is required 🤷‍♂️ (re @Winston_Sung: Trying to call https://www.wikifunctions.org/wiki/Z33040 but couldn't.) [16:26:16] It also seems weird that the function call part didn't warn about mismatched data types (e.g., selected a function that return monolingual text in the composition top level while the function requires string return value). [16:26:18] It doesn't even provide hints to return type. [16:30:04] It’s supposed not to let you do that. But without the specifics, it’s hard to say why it might be behaving oddly. (re @Winston_Sung: It also seems weird that the function call part didn't warn about mismatched data types (e.g., selected a function that return m...) [16:45:59] Weird. https://www.wikifunctions.org/wiki/Z16273 always return empty string monolingual text on my side. [16:47:11] Oh, I guess it's because https://www.wikifunctions.org/wiki/Z16277 is broken at the moment. [16:52:16] I think language comparisons in code got broken by the most recent deployment. *T419789* is the ticket for the time being. (re @Winston_Sung: Oh, I guess it's because https://www.wikifunctions.org/wiki/Z16277 is broken at the moment.) [16:53:37] Yeah that works. (re @Al: I think you can change configurations without Functioneer rights.) [17:12:43] Is it normal that a connected function can return expected result in its implementation page but still throws "implementation not connected" error on the function page? [17:17:23] It depends whether the call on the function page is a cached result. Which implementation? (re @Winston_Sung: Is it normal that a connected function can return expected result in its implementation page but still throws "implementation no...) [19:01:43] @bd808 I marked the page as historical [19:06:33] *Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter 242* [19:06:34] * Request for Discussion: Towards a more modular NLG [19:06:35] * Functions suggested by Abstract Wikipedia [19:06:37] * Recent Changes in the software [19:06:38] * News in Types: Grammatical voices [19:06:40] * Wikifunctions presentation at WikiCon Australia on 11 April 2026 [19:06:41] * Volunteer’s Corner upcoming on 13 April 2026 [19:06:43] * Fresh Functions weekly: 102 new Functions [19:06:44] https://www.wikifunctions.org/wiki/Wikifunctions:Status_updates/2026-04-02 [22:35:58] Quick Update: [22:35:59] 1. All the section titles are multilingual. [22:36:01] 2. Reference Support is Multilingual. [22:36:02] 3. I did one multilingual statement. (re @wikilinksbot: [[abstract:Q15433043]]) [22:37:32] The problem is that we do not have a guide about how to handle Wikidata items, properties, and lexemes after we fetch from Wikidata item references, property references, and lexeme references to extract a specific information. [22:38:05] For example, I want to get the verb to be conjugated in the present tense for the third person in singular. [22:38:52] We cannot make something concrete with a full tutorial on this. [22:41:05] Also, some problems need to be solved: [22:41:07] 1. Orchestrator timeouts and speed. [22:41:08] 2. Difference of rendering between Wikifunctions and Abstract Wikipedia. [22:41:10] 3. Page titles are by default in English and do not change when changing the language. [22:42:27] There is a function [Z27410]] that gets the best string from a lexeme and grammatical features. I agree that it would be better to have a tutorial with some of these useful functions for lexemes and wikidata items. [22:43:04] Absolutely agree. (re @wmtelegram_bot: There is a function [Z27410]] that gets the best string from a lexeme and grammatical features. I agree that it would...) [22:43:17] Z27410 [22:44:41] There is more. For example, how to get gender from lexeme. I think that we need to know how to parse Wikidata items in Wikifunctions instead of reusing what is available. (re @wikilinksbot: Z27410 – better matching representation string from lexeme) [22:45:00] It's annoying that Abstract Wikipedia loves giving out max retry errors. [22:46:37] This annoys me too, because I cannot see what I have done. I need to refresh at 6 AM UTC when the use of Abstract Wikipedia is limited to see the final output. (re @wmtelegram_bot: It's annoying that Abstract Wikipedia loves giving out max retry errors.)