[02:18:04] Same, I'd say "Bubbly Creek" flows into "The Chicago River" (re @u99of9: The hardest will be the least documented items. Rivers around my local area usually get "the", but most creeks don't.) [04:41:59] so the current modeling in WD lexemes is suboptimal because it conflate these two? (re @Al: 🤷‍♂️ enwiki says [04:41:59] “A distinction is normally made in current linguistics between proper nouns and proper names. By this strict di...) [08:38:15] What WD lexemes do is conflate nouns and noun phrases. Once you’ve done that (by design), it’s hard to argue for a useful distinction between proper names and proper nouns. Clearly, most proper names never require a Wikidata lexeme, but any that do are appropriately categorised as proper nouns. (re @Npriskorn: so the current modeling in WD lexemes is suboptimal because it [08:38:15] conflate these two?) [11:22:20] Luckily, we can always rely on the labels… not! [11:22:22] In cases where the general rule is to use the definite article (like waterways), it’s hard to mark the exceptions. Great Britain has very few creeks so-named, but somehow the word resists the definite article, just as “brook” does. I imagine that no Australian would refer to “the Cooper Creek” and somehow, it feels inevitable that one would prefer to go “along” it r [11:22:22] [11:22:23] ather than up or down, but perhaps that’s geography rather than linguistics. (re @u99of9: The hardest will be the least documented items. Rivers around my local area usually get "the", but most creeks don't.) [11:40:24] Haha, well I'm not sure if you picked this one for it's peculiarity, but if you mean [[w:Cooper_Creek]], then this is actually a river (it was low at the time it was first named), and so yes, the SA government calls it "the Cooper Creek" https://cdn.environment.sa.gov.au/environment/docs/her-fact-innamincka-sha.pdf (re @Al: Luckily, we can always rely on the labels… [11:40:24] not! [11:40:25] In cases where the general rule is to use the definite article (like waterways...) [11:46:56] Mostly not, though… I’ll suppose it to be an editorial oversight, like the first word of the enwiki article (ahem!). (re @u99of9: Haha, well I'm not sure if you picked this one for it's peculiarity, but if you mean [[w:Cooper_Creek]], then this is actually a...) [21:58:09] I thought a little bit about the matter we are facing concerning the use of lexemes. I think that the solution is to create lexemes with mul as language to code unique senses across languages and then link the multilingual lexeme to corresponding senses in multiple languages. [21:59:17] Decide (mul) can be linked to decide (en), décider (fr) and قرّر (ar). [22:00:36] These universal lexemes including one sense can be the backbone of the Universal Language. [22:02:25] Isn't that what items are now? (re @Csisc1994: Decide (mul) can be linked to decide (en), décider (fr) and قرّر (ar).) [22:02:51] But maybe items are not good enough for that 🤷🏻‍♂️ [22:03:07] Not really, it does not work for adjectives, verbs, adverbs, and prepositions. (re @amire80: Isn't that what items are now?) [22:03:48] I tried to figure out a way to code "Recently" on Abstract Wikipedia. I failed. [22:04:45] Another example is the proposition "for". https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/for lists four senses. These senses correspond to distinct prepositions in other languages. [22:04:59] I think that @mahir256 and @bgo_eiu thought about this, but I don't remember their conclusions. [22:05:17] yes, Mahir’s live stream from the other day feels very relevant to this (but I don’t want to sum it up either) [22:05:41] https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2739030949 [22:05:47] Thank you. (re @lucaswerkmeister: yes, Mahir’s live stream from the other day feels very relevant to this (but I don’t want to sum it up either)) [22:05:52] I will see it. [22:17:25] On one hand, thanks. On the other hand... there are people who are good at learning from two-hour videos, but I'm not one of them, and I suspect that there are others like me. Is it perhaps written anywhere?.. (re @lucaswerkmeister: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2739030949)