[01:12:07] Change on 12en_wikipedia a page Wikipedia:Huggle/Feedback was modified, changed by Lowercase sigmabot III link https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=606560964 edit summary: Archiving 2 discussion(s) to [[Wikipedia:Huggle/Feedback/Archive 18]]) (bot [01:12:09] Change on 12en_wikipedia a page Wikipedia:Huggle/Feedback/Archive 18 was modified, changed by Lowercase sigmabot III link https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=606560969 edit summary: Archiving 2 discussion(s) from [[Wikipedia:Huggle/Feedback]]) (bot [07:17:52] [02huggle3-qt-lx] 07benapetr pushed 031 commit to 03ubuntu [+0/-0/±3] 13https://github.com/huggle/huggle3-qt-lx/compare/1884cbf5a1bf...6ec31ac9b2c9 [07:17:53] [02huggle3-qt-lx] 07benapetr 036ec31ac - orig hack for some reason the orig file is getting deleted by ubuntu [09:16:10] @notify addshore [09:16:10] You've already asked me to watch this user [16:49:16] [02huggle3-qt-lx] 07benapetr pushed 031 commit to 03master [+0/-0/±1] 13http://git.io/Dm3APg [16:49:17] [02huggle3-qt-lx] 07benapetr 0340d2a28 - wl we don't want to spam unless it's saving it [17:52:23] [02huggle3-qt-lx] 07benapetr pushed 031 commit to 03master [+0/-0/±3] 13http://git.io/lEq0Xg [17:52:25] [02huggle3-qt-lx] 07benapetr 0365ceb86 - updated now we are storing the suspicious edits for later review by other users [17:52:46] 3Huggle / 3Application: Adding level 2 warning, even if level 2 warning exists - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/59982#c32 (10gladjonatan) 5REO>3RES/FIX It seems to be fixed now. (petan > to ping in the IRC-channel) [17:53:10] Someone’s got an un-nicked bot... [17:53:54] Guest91646 is Not-001 (but not logged in using their "real nick") [17:54:10] I kind of figured… [17:55:17] no idea why [17:55:21] not operating it [17:55:38] on tm-irc this bot is fine [17:55:50] just freenode fucked it up I think some evil user registered their nickname [17:56:14] petan, I like the latest commit! (storing the bad suspisious edits) [17:56:34] yes we do store them but I need to figure out what to do next [17:57:04] I want to create queue in huggle but also I would like to provide them elsewhere for non-huggle useres [17:57:12] It appears someone did, petan… four days ago. [17:57:40] petan: make Huggle have two queues, one for live edits, and one for "old edits" [17:57:55] eh [17:58:04] that would be weird I guess [17:58:41] why? it could help find old vandalism better... [17:58:46] well, maybe not [17:58:54] but it would be hard to implement :P [17:59:07] also the GUI is already so full of various widgets, one more queue... ew [17:59:17] I have 11" display [17:59:18] :D [17:59:23] think of me [17:59:38] my browser window looks smaller than display of my phone [17:59:52] I have briliant laptop for developers [18:00:03] You don't have to have all windows open...just make another tab where the normal edits are. [18:00:05] it's very slow, has almost no RAM and mini display :D [18:00:20] it forces programmers to write fast memory effective applications with proper GUI :D [18:00:45] Josve05a: that could work [18:01:14] but it is still very hard to implement [18:01:18] I have no idea of coding or GUI's, I'm just brainstorming crazy ideas. Haha [18:02:01] Josve05a: nobody seems to use "suspicious edits" except for me it seems [18:02:06] there is 0 items in queue now [18:02:23] this thing http://huggle.wmflabs.org/data/susp.php?action=last&wp=en.wikipedia.org returns xml [18:02:36] you can click "display source" to see it [18:02:43] otherwise it will look like an empty page [18:03:59] [18:03:59] [18:04:29] ^ this [18:07:01] now it is: [18:07:01] [18:07:01] [18:07:01] [18:08:52] yes now it's correct :P [18:09:02] I forgot to make it look like xml rather than html [18:09:05] now firefox renders [18:09:08] :o [18:09:12] Yeah :D [18:09:40] on Chrome: [18:09:40] ok I go run huggle so you can see some suspicious edits :P [18:09:41] This XML file does not appear to have any style information associated with it. The document tree is shown below. [18:09:41] [18:11:29] lol [18:16:09] btw did u see new wl? [18:16:19] !wl [18:16:27] !wlen is http://huggle.wmflabs.org/data/wl.php?wp=en.wikipedia.org&action=display [18:16:27] Key was added [18:16:29] !wl [18:16:29] http://huggle.wmflabs.org/data/wl.php?wp=en.wikipedia.org&action=display [18:16:53] oh. nice..."unknown"? [18:17:03] old huggles [18:17:11] only new huggle report the name [18:17:19] Can we do a statistics, to see who has added most users? [18:17:27] very easily [18:17:29] some statistics* [18:17:35] http://huggle.wmflabs.org/phppgadmin/ [18:17:44] login as "labs" password is "public" [18:18:16] trying to find a "log-in" [18:18:36] then run "select count(*) as "count", user from whitelist_public GROUP BY user ORDER BY COUNT DESC; [18:20:10] SELECT count(*) AS "count", insertion_user FROM whitelist_public GROUP BY insertion_user ORDER BY COUNT DESC; [18:20:12] this works [18:20:34] top 3: [18:20:46] 957 unknown [18:20:47] 530 huggle_Excirial [18:20:48] 527 huggle_josve05a [18:20:49] uhh....I'm not even going to try... [18:20:55] why not [18:21:01] Excirial....I'm going to beat you [18:21:14] petan I have no idea about what you did... [18:21:23] but it's number of users that were whitelisted by you :P [18:21:48] but the: SELECT count(*) AS "count", insertion_user FROM whitelist_public GROUP BY insertion_user ORDER BY COUNT DESC; <<<< Huuuh? [18:22:33] Oh, I had to click SQL... [18:25:02] 110/11 edits right now! All security-personel to battelstations! [18:26:54] petan In the system logs, I think it should say either "User:TCMemoire with score -8654 has been inserted to wl" (with colon between 'user' and the name) or "TCMemoire with score -8654 has been inserted to wl" (without the 'User') [18:27:14] mhm [18:28:07] I don't really care: https://github.com/huggle/huggle3-qt-lx/blob/master/huggle/Localization/en.xml#L46 fix it [18:31:23] I couldn't fix it, I could only make a pull request... [18:39:31] [02huggle3-qt-lx] 07benapetr pushed 032 commits to 03master [+0/-0/±2] 13https://github.com/huggle/huggle3-qt-lx/compare/65ceb86db60f...6617110224cf [18:39:33] [02huggle3-qt-lx] 07josve05a 0373aa361 - Removed user [18:39:34] [02huggle3-qt-lx] 07benapetr 036617110 - Merge pull request #40 from josve05a/patch-1 Removed user [18:46:44] [02huggle3-qt-lx] 07benapetr pushed 032 commits to 03master [+0/-0/±2] 13http://git.io/pYEJ1Q [18:46:45] [02huggle3-qt-lx] 07josve05a 039cb3023 - typos [18:46:46] [02huggle3-qt-lx] 07benapetr 035286452 - Merge pull request #41 from josve05a/patch-2 typos [18:53:01] two super-small edits....sorry [19:52:15] hey addshore did u see new whitelist? [19:52:56] + we have a list of suspicious edits http://huggle.wmflabs.org/data/susp.php?action=last&wp=en.wikipedia.org [19:56:31] petan: Is that list somewhat similar to STiki's? [19:56:43] I have no idea how stiki works [19:56:55] this is a list of edits that users marked as suspicious [19:57:05] by hitting S while in huggle [19:57:55] Stiki is similar to Huggle, though it is server based. There is a STiki server maintaining a list of all the edits which it then serves to editors using the program. [19:58:10] aha [19:58:21] this is just a list of suspicious edits that nobody took care of [19:58:27] the edits are selected by people [19:58:54] Hmmm. And the edits marked as such are subsequently supplied to other Huggle users? [19:59:50] (Eg: You mark something suspicious, and Huggle inserts it in the queue of another patrol to double check it?) [19:59:58] nothing is being done with them now [20:00:05] that is something we need to sort out :P [20:00:15] but yes [20:00:29] the plan is that people (even users of other tools) will be able to review these [20:01:13] I first need to create a bot that will check all these edits and remove those which are obsolete (newer edits exist to same page) [20:01:15] That sounds precisely like what i always hoped we would end up with - centralized patrol. [20:01:21] so that only suspicious edits that are TOP are in queue [20:01:42] yes I am trying to centralize things a lot with huggle 3 that is why HAN was launched [20:01:56] because there are too many new edits, people need to collaborate more [20:02:06] it needs to be better distributed [20:02:13] Huggle is exceptionally fast, though its not exactly scalable. 100 patrols would still look at the same edit 100 times. [20:02:23] not really [20:02:31] Oh? [20:02:31] in huggle 3 you can flag edits as good [20:02:40] that will notify other huggle users in HAN [20:02:51] their huggles will remove "good" edits from all queues [20:03:10] same with reverts, once you revert something it's gone from queue if user share this over HAN [20:03:42] so you only review edits that other huggle users have no opinion on [20:04:05] only edits that are "skipped" using spacebar gets reviewed by others as well [20:04:18] Hmmm. I'd love a situation where a central server distributes an edit to 2-3 patrols for QA reasons, while supplying another set of editors with the rest. [20:04:40] But thats not exactly easy to accomplish. :) [20:05:26] I have a feeling though, that 99% of the edits are reviewed using the space bar. I hardly ever use anything other then R, Q and Space. [20:05:54] (Edits that do not need to be reverted that is of course) [20:06:24] I only use [space], Q and that "revert and warn"-button...(ashamed) [20:06:30] that is easy to accomplish but it wouldn't be reliable, because people are doing too many mistakes [20:06:42] you do want to have every edit reviewed by multiple people [20:07:09] Thats why i suggested that each edit would be distributed to 2 to 3 patrols. [20:07:20] having it reviewed only by 1 person require that 1 person to be extremely skilled so they can determine on 99% if it really needs revert or is good edit [20:07:32] even 2 or 3 is not enough [20:07:41] 5 then... [20:07:47] I think that edit should be distributed as long as nobody can confirm if it's good or not [20:08:03] every single edit to wikipedia should be flagged (good / bad) [20:08:18] until it's flagged it is still potentialy a problemous one that needs a review [20:08:26] Are there any statistics on the amount of edits explicitly flagged as good? [20:08:59] since there are only like 3 users of huggle 3 so far... and only huggle 3 support that feature and only I use it... [20:09:05] they wouldn't be very interesting :P [20:09:31] Well, thats my point really. Huggle users pretty much grew up using the space bar. ;) [20:09:41] but if the user make 1) bad edit to the article 2) makes another good edit a few seconds later in the same article...should the first edit be marked bad and the 2nd good? I think they should be "merged" when patroling using Huggle... [20:09:52] yes, and every edit that is skipped needs to remain in "queue of edits to review" [20:10:17] Josve05a: yes, it is "per edit" review, not per user [20:11:05] so in case of 1 good and 2 bad, it would be 1 good and 2 bad [20:11:14] that is why people aren't whitelisted for 1 good edit [20:11:46] they are, right now whitelisted for 4+ good edits [20:12:06] or if cluebot and other mechanisms give them extremely good score [20:12:20] some users are getting score like -3245436 :P [20:12:29] One more thing...I should only be allowed to mark an edit good/bad once. Not multiple times...then the editor itself could mark it good... [20:12:32] Hmmm. 4+ is quite low. [20:12:32] that is when they have thousands of edits, many flags like "sysop" etc [20:12:59] Provided every edit would be explicitly tagged as good or bad that is. [20:13:08] Excirial: so far I never managed to get a single user whitelisted just based on number of good edits, it was always mix of multiple scores [20:13:46] True, but that is likely because only a fraction of the edits is classified as good or bad. [20:14:05] If every edit i reviewed was either good or bad, i am certain 4+ is fairly easy to reach. [20:14:14] yes indeed [20:14:20] but that is never going to happen :P [20:14:28] people will rather use spacebar [20:14:37] it requires less thinking heh [20:15:12] I doubt its "less thinking". Its more a habit based on years of using Huggle. [20:16:06] If i draw another comparison to STiki: It doesn't have (easy to acces) hotkeys, and just presents you with 4 buttons: Revert (Vandalism), revert (Good faith), Mark as Good and Skip. [20:16:51] huggle has all these buttons + many more :P [20:17:08] it has also mark as suspicious which stiki is missing [20:17:49] that is something like "I think this is a vandalism but someone with more knowledge of this should decide / revert" [20:17:55] True, but thats not my point. The lack of hotkeys (Annoying as it is) forces people to choose. [20:18:23] Right now i am pressing space all the time, even if i am certain that an edit is good. [20:18:26] ok but you have hotkeys: G - good edit, S - suspicious, Q - revert and warn etc [20:18:49] G and S isn't that far away from space :P [20:19:16] True, but Q, R, Space and Ctrl+Space require no hand movement to cover. [20:19:44] there should be a pop-up every 20 space-press (in a row) or so reminding you to rate the edits instead...(like in STiki...) [20:20:06] (Thats an annoying feature though) [20:20:09] G is just next to R (right + down) [20:21:24] Well, ring finger is on Q, Index finder in on R, Thumb is on space and Palm is on Ctrl (Where it can hold along with a space press to clear the queue). [20:22:01] Try that position, and then move index to G. It moves the entire hand around. ;) [20:22:15] you still have middle finger lol :P [20:22:27] using huggle will be harder than playing guitar :D [20:22:42] ... Rock band - Huggle edition. [20:22:59] you can press space bar with second hand [20:23:03] Its just pressing 5 buttons. Heck, i think it would actually work. [20:23:17] Second hand is on [ and ]. Or on the mouse. :) [20:23:36] second hand can manage both [20:23:48] I don't need mouse lol [20:24:12] I use little finger to scroll on it [20:24:28] Oh, then how do you place any warning other than the standard vandalism warning? :) [20:24:41] that is a special situation :P [20:24:49] here I use mouse [20:25:43] Technically, if i were to map W to Good Edit, middle finger would finally have a purpose in life as well. [20:26:02] W is warning [20:26:08] afaik E has no use [20:27:14] And if i were to use Caps Lock as some sort of modifier, i could doublt the command left hand could execute. While also giving the pinkie a purpose. [20:27:20] (No, i am not serious) [20:27:31] funny is that there are only few huggle users on english wiki [20:27:44] they all together do more antivandalism work than rest of wikipedia :P [20:27:53] I saw that on some revert stats [20:27:56] To be honest - it kinda surprises me how few there are. [20:28:17] yes, but even though these few keep encyclopedia clean :D [20:28:44] I actually wonder how many use other tools - Stiki, Igloo, Twinkle and the like. [20:28:56] Heavens, i remember starting out using Lupin. [20:28:59] twinkle is for sure most popular it's super easy to install [20:29:14] But far, far from ideal for vandalism patrol. [20:29:14] but it's least effective imho [20:29:30] Its more for the "my watchlist shows vandalism" issues. [20:29:39] it can't do any patrol it just makes it easier to revert and warn [20:30:11] Have you ever seen the Lupin tool? [20:30:21] no [20:30:30] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:LupinAntiVandalTool.png [20:31:16] Pretty much a self-reloading word based filter. You needed to manually press buttons to go to a users talk page and post warnings / press revert. [20:31:54] That was before Huggle even existed. I believe Twinkle might not have been around back then either. :) [20:33:51] I remember using Vandal Fighter https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fil:Cdvfliverc.jpg [20:34:48] By comparison, we're certainly a whole lot better of tool-wise these days.